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On September 25 2013 21:50 Huragius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 21:42 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 25 2013 21:41 Huragius wrote:On September 25 2013 21:38 DarkLordOlli wrote:
PvP probably has the widest range of viable builds, strategies and tech routes out of any matchup. Every unit has a role in PvP. It's pretty cool. Mhm, TvT ? Not really. In PvP you can open with every tech route, you can fast expand, you can do crazy cheese like cannon rushes, proxy gates, you can proxy pretty much everything, you can go every tech route and cheese with it, you can go every tech route and macro with it. TvT is either bio/tank or mech. You can not only open with all routes of tech in TvT, but you can do a lot of their variations as well, from gas first into fast starport, reactor hellion expand, reaper expand, 14 CC and etc. As well in TvT you can have have most interesting mid game compositions (Marine/Tank, Mass Hellion/Viking/Banshee, Pure Bio, Pure mech). Also, you can go either bio, mech or sky terran at later stages at the game. While compositions in PvP gets pretty stale and similar. And with that last sentence, you just sound like a blind protoss fan with not much of TvT knowledge.
One could say I am the blind protoss fan (TheDwf would I guess ^^), but really it does not apply to DLO. I actually sometimes found that he sounded more like a terran fanboy. But he's not neither, he just gives his impressions on the game that's it.
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On September 25 2013 21:21 Umpteen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 20:19 Nebuchad wrote:On September 25 2013 20:07 gobbledydook wrote:On September 25 2013 20:03 TyrantPotato wrote:
Grats to rain hope he runs deep.
Colossus are interesting dynamic units to spectate indeed. hey their lasers actually swing and look big they're the best lasers, think of what else has lasers void ray lasers don't even move battlecruiser lasers look more like a spray pdd lasers can't even do damage I can't help but think there's supposed to be a melody with these lines ~~ "Colossi are boss! I deny that I lie, They amaze us with lazers!" I brazenly cry. "There is micro, unlike those detested infestors Whose growth I am loath to suggest is the best! His Colloxen outfoxed an opponent whose moment To capitalise on his ill-advised foe went Completely unspent and without incident! No surprise, then, supplies tended thence to converge No legerdemain gave the edge, sir, to Rain."
Congrats buddy, that poem was much better than this group's games 
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On September 25 2013 22:26 Huragius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 22:02 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 25 2013 21:50 Huragius wrote:On September 25 2013 21:42 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 25 2013 21:41 Huragius wrote:On September 25 2013 21:38 DarkLordOlli wrote:
PvP probably has the widest range of viable builds, strategies and tech routes out of any matchup. Every unit has a role in PvP. It's pretty cool. Mhm, TvT ? Not really. In PvP you can open with every tech route, you can fast expand, you can do crazy cheese like cannon rushes, proxy gates, you can proxy pretty much everything, you can go every tech route and cheese with it, you can go every tech route and macro with it. TvT is either bio/tank or mech. You can not only open with all routes of tech in TvT, but you can do a lot of their variations as well, from gas first into fast starport, reactor hellion expand, reaper expand, 14 CC and etc. As well in TvT you can have have m ost interesting mid game compositions (Marine/Tank, Mass Hellion/Viking/Banshee, Pure Bio, Pure mech). Also, you can go either bio, mech or sky terran at later stages at the game. While compositions in PvP gets pretty stale and similar. And with that last sentence, you just sound like a blind protoss fan with not much of TvT knowledge. This has nothing to do with anything and is your opinion only. There are only two general tech routes though, mech and bio. You can open starport but you'll have to transition into either or you lose. You can open hellion drop or proxy something, same story. In PvP you can either transition out or stay on that tech. You can switch anytime you see an opportunity whereas going from one to the other in TvT is impossible. PvP feels a lot more flexible than TvT. So my opinion is only my opinion, but yours' is an argument ?(Despite me pointing out reasons why I think so) Also, then what is a tech route ? You compare two fundamentally different races, but pick only those 'arguments' about tech choices that supports your opinion and dismiss others ? I can oversimplify protoss play style the same as you did with terrans: you either go gateway tech focused or robo focused. You can open with stargate to harass but transitioning to it during early game is impossible because you will die. Isn't the same with TvT? Having a raven, few banshees or some vikings is considered as a transitioning out of starport opening, but mixing in few voidrays or some phenixes is 'another available tech route in PvP'. And no, you can transition in TvT, and if you payed at least any attention to high level past-mid game TvTs you would have noticed smooth transitions to skyterran (from both meching player and bio player), bio with tank support (form bio player against meching player) and even raven viking (from bio player with a lot of spare gas). At later stages of the game, you will even see ghosts to EMP ravens and BC. Also- nukes. Your discussion skills and cherry picking is just silly. So what you feel doesn't mean a lot, and majority of people do agree that TvT still holds the title as most flexible and interesting match-up of all (however it must be played at korean level to be so). And you can notice that by reactions of viewers after every good TvT in any major tournament. Same can't be said about PvP.
Doesn't really matter if PvP is more ""flexible"", doesn't really matter what they make or switch up, they're all protoss units in the end  Nothing can match the beauty of TvT : ) It's What a real RTS game should look like!!
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On September 25 2013 22:29 AxionSteel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 22:26 Huragius wrote:On September 25 2013 22:02 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 25 2013 21:50 Huragius wrote:On September 25 2013 21:42 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 25 2013 21:41 Huragius wrote:On September 25 2013 21:38 DarkLordOlli wrote:
PvP probably has the widest range of viable builds, strategies and tech routes out of any matchup. Every unit has a role in PvP. It's pretty cool. Mhm, TvT ? Not really. In PvP you can open with every tech route, you can fast expand, you can do crazy cheese like cannon rushes, proxy gates, you can proxy pretty much everything, you can go every tech route and cheese with it, you can go every tech route and macro with it. TvT is either bio/tank or mech. You can not only open with all routes of tech in TvT, but you can do a lot of their variations as well, from gas first into fast starport, reactor hellion expand, reaper expand, 14 CC and etc. As well in TvT you can have have m ost interesting mid game compositions (Marine/Tank, Mass Hellion/Viking/Banshee, Pure Bio, Pure mech). Also, you can go either bio, mech or sky terran at later stages at the game. While compositions in PvP gets pretty stale and similar. And with that last sentence, you just sound like a blind protoss fan with not much of TvT knowledge. This has nothing to do with anything and is your opinion only. There are only two general tech routes though, mech and bio. You can open starport but you'll have to transition into either or you lose. You can open hellion drop or proxy something, same story. In PvP you can either transition out or stay on that tech. You can switch anytime you see an opportunity whereas going from one to the other in TvT is impossible. PvP feels a lot more flexible than TvT. So my opinion is only my opinion, but yours' is an argument ?(Despite me pointing out reasons why I think so) Also, then what is a tech route ? You compare two fundamentally different races, but pick only those 'arguments' about tech choices that supports your opinion and dismiss others ? I can oversimplify protoss play style the same as you did with terrans: you either go gateway tech focused or robo focused. You can open with stargate to harass but transitioning to it during early game is impossible because you will die. Isn't the same with TvT? Having a raven, few banshees or some vikings is considered as a transitioning out of starport opening, but mixing in few voidrays or some phenixes is 'another available tech route in PvP'. And no, you can transition in TvT, and if you payed at least any attention to high level past-mid game TvTs you would have noticed smooth transitions to skyterran (from both meching player and bio player), bio with tank support (form bio player against meching player) and even raven viking (from bio player with a lot of spare gas). At later stages of the game, you will even see ghosts to EMP ravens and BC. Also- nukes. Your discussion skills and cherry picking is just silly. So what you feel doesn't mean a lot, and majority of people do agree that TvT still holds the title as most flexible and interesting match-up of all (however it must be played at korean level to be so). And you can notice that by reactions of viewers after every good TvT in any major tournament. Same can't be said about PvP. Doesn't really matter if PvP is more ""flexible"", doesn't really matter what they make or switch up, they're all protoss units in the end Nothing can match the beauty of TvT : ) It's What a real RTS game should look like!!
I don't like TvT too much for the above quoted reasons, and kinda like the PvP in HotS for all its variations. But tastes cannot be discussed I guess
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On September 25 2013 22:33 samurai80 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 22:29 AxionSteel wrote:On September 25 2013 22:26 Huragius wrote:On September 25 2013 22:02 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 25 2013 21:50 Huragius wrote:On September 25 2013 21:42 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 25 2013 21:41 Huragius wrote:On September 25 2013 21:38 DarkLordOlli wrote:
PvP probably has the widest range of viable builds, strategies and tech routes out of any matchup. Every unit has a role in PvP. It's pretty cool. Mhm, TvT ? Not really. In PvP you can open with every tech route, you can fast expand, you can do crazy cheese like cannon rushes, proxy gates, you can proxy pretty much everything, you can go every tech route and cheese with it, you can go every tech route and macro with it. TvT is either bio/tank or mech. You can not only open with all routes of tech in TvT, but you can do a lot of their variations as well, from gas first into fast starport, reactor hellion expand, reaper expand, 14 CC and etc. As well in TvT you can have have m ost interesting mid game compositions (Marine/Tank, Mass Hellion/Viking/Banshee, Pure Bio, Pure mech). Also, you can go either bio, mech or sky terran at later stages at the game. While compositions in PvP gets pretty stale and similar. And with that last sentence, you just sound like a blind protoss fan with not much of TvT knowledge. This has nothing to do with anything and is your opinion only. There are only two general tech routes though, mech and bio. You can open starport but you'll have to transition into either or you lose. You can open hellion drop or proxy something, same story. In PvP you can either transition out or stay on that tech. You can switch anytime you see an opportunity whereas going from one to the other in TvT is impossible. PvP feels a lot more flexible than TvT. So my opinion is only my opinion, but yours' is an argument ?(Despite me pointing out reasons why I think so) Also, then what is a tech route ? You compare two fundamentally different races, but pick only those 'arguments' about tech choices that supports your opinion and dismiss others ? I can oversimplify protoss play style the same as you did with terrans: you either go gateway tech focused or robo focused. You can open with stargate to harass but transitioning to it during early game is impossible because you will die. Isn't the same with TvT? Having a raven, few banshees or some vikings is considered as a transitioning out of starport opening, but mixing in few voidrays or some phenixes is 'another available tech route in PvP'. And no, you can transition in TvT, and if you payed at least any attention to high level past-mid game TvTs you would have noticed smooth transitions to skyterran (from both meching player and bio player), bio with tank support (form bio player against meching player) and even raven viking (from bio player with a lot of spare gas). At later stages of the game, you will even see ghosts to EMP ravens and BC. Also- nukes. Your discussion skills and cherry picking is just silly. So what you feel doesn't mean a lot, and majority of people do agree that TvT still holds the title as most flexible and interesting match-up of all (however it must be played at korean level to be so). And you can notice that by reactions of viewers after every good TvT in any major tournament. Same can't be said about PvP. Doesn't really matter if PvP is more ""flexible"", doesn't really matter what they make or switch up, they're all protoss units in the end Nothing can match the beauty of TvT : ) It's What a real RTS game should look like!! I don't like TvT too much for the above quoted reasons, and kinda like the PvP in HotS for all its variations. But tastes cannot be discussed I guess
You don't like terran much, i can see that from all your whining posts about them.
TvT is typically the most popular matchup to watch and has been for a long time. Many of the most highly recommended games and memorable games are TvT. Of course people have different opinions but generally that's how it is
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Yeah, let's have a best match-up argument, that's what we lacked.
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On September 25 2013 22:28 samurai80 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 21:50 Huragius wrote:On September 25 2013 21:42 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 25 2013 21:41 Huragius wrote:On September 25 2013 21:38 DarkLordOlli wrote:
PvP probably has the widest range of viable builds, strategies and tech routes out of any matchup. Every unit has a role in PvP. It's pretty cool. Mhm, TvT ? Not really. In PvP you can open with every tech route, you can fast expand, you can do crazy cheese like cannon rushes, proxy gates, you can proxy pretty much everything, you can go every tech route and cheese with it, you can go every tech route and macro with it. TvT is either bio/tank or mech. You can not only open with all routes of tech in TvT, but you can do a lot of their variations as well, from gas first into fast starport, reactor hellion expand, reaper expand, 14 CC and etc. As well in TvT you can have have most interesting mid game compositions (Marine/Tank, Mass Hellion/Viking/Banshee, Pure Bio, Pure mech). Also, you can go either bio, mech or sky terran at later stages at the game. While compositions in PvP gets pretty stale and similar. And with that last sentence, you just sound like a blind protoss fan with not much of TvT knowledge. One could say I am the blind protoss fan (TheDwf would I guess ^^), but really it does not apply to DLO. I actually sometimes found that he sounded more like a terran fanboy. But he's not neither, he just gives his impressions on the game that's it.
:O
I come off as a terran fanboy? I mean I really like TvZ and TvT but wouldn't say it's because of the terran race, rather because of the way units interact with each other. Same reason I love PvP.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Lois is only a HerO fangirl nothing else, guys
that should be clear by now
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On September 25 2013 22:39 Nebuchad wrote:
Yeah, let's have a best match-up argument, that's what we lacked.
I'm terran but PvZ is the best imho.
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I guess kespa won again :D
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United States23455 Posts
On September 25 2013 23:07 illidanx wrote:
I guess kespa won again :D
Oh don't you start this again . Plus Trap is technically esf amirite?
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On September 25 2013 23:07 NicksonReyes wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 22:39 Nebuchad wrote:
Yeah, let's have a best match-up argument, that's what we lacked. I'm terran but PvZ is the best imho.
I'm protoss and I think every matchup can be amazing. TvT shows its best most often I guess. PvZ can be mindblowingly cool... but also damn terrible.
Actually no. Best matchup to watch is HerOvZ
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
I've been arguing for the merits of PvZ for a few months now, I'm glad people are seeing it too
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On September 25 2013 23:12 lichter wrote:
I've been arguing for the merits of PvZ for a few months now, I'm glad people are seeing it too
Always depends on whether or not there are swarmhosts
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Glad that sOs is out. I really don't like him somehow. Congrats to Rain and Trap!
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On September 25 2013 23:10 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 23:07 NicksonReyes wrote:On September 25 2013 22:39 Nebuchad wrote:
Yeah, let's have a best match-up argument, that's what we lacked. I'm terran but PvZ is the best imho. I'm protoss and I think every matchup can be amazing. TvT shows its best most often I guess. PvZ can be mindblowingly cool... but also damn terrible. Actually no. Best matchup to watch is HerOvZ
for me the best matchup is HerO - losing. Mwahahaa!
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On September 25 2013 23:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 23:12 lichter wrote:
I've been arguing for the merits of PvZ for a few months now, I'm glad people are seeing it too Always depends on whether or not there are swarmhosts
EffOrt vs Classic on Whirlwind was pretty cool
Swarmhosts can be interesting too, just not on one lane maps like Akilon
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On September 25 2013 23:16 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 23:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 25 2013 23:12 lichter wrote:
I've been arguing for the merits of PvZ for a few months now, I'm glad people are seeing it too Always depends on whether or not there are swarmhosts EffOrt vs Classic on Whirlwind was pretty cool Swarmhosts can be interesting too, just not on one lane maps like Akilon
You know what, I can agree with that. That's always been that way though. As long as you can abuse immobility, be it against swarmhosts, slow protoss deathballs, mech or whatever, I think that's good map design. The stronger army shouldn't always win in my opinion. There should be ways around it, otherwise too many potentially viable styles are eliminated just because you can't eternally dodge their army and will get steamrolled if that happens.
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On September 25 2013 22:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 22:28 samurai80 wrote:On September 25 2013 21:50 Huragius wrote:On September 25 2013 21:42 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 25 2013 21:41 Huragius wrote:On September 25 2013 21:38 DarkLordOlli wrote:
PvP probably has the widest range of viable builds, strategies and tech routes out of any matchup. Every unit has a role in PvP. It's pretty cool. Mhm, TvT ? Not really. In PvP you can open with every tech route, you can fast expand, you can do crazy cheese like cannon rushes, proxy gates, you can proxy pretty much everything, you can go every tech route and cheese with it, you can go every tech route and macro with it. TvT is either bio/tank or mech. You can not only open with all routes of tech in TvT, but you can do a lot of their variations as well, from gas first into fast starport, reactor hellion expand, reaper expand, 14 CC and etc. As well in TvT you can have have most interesting mid game compositions (Marine/Tank, Mass Hellion/Viking/Banshee, Pure Bio, Pure mech). Also, you can go either bio, mech or sky terran at later stages at the game. While compositions in PvP gets pretty stale and similar. And with that last sentence, you just sound like a blind protoss fan with not much of TvT knowledge. One could say I am the blind protoss fan (TheDwf would I guess ^^), but really it does not apply to DLO. I actually sometimes found that he sounded more like a terran fanboy. But he's not neither, he just gives his impressions on the game that's it. :O I come off as a terran fanboy? I mean I really like TvZ and TvT but wouldn't say it's because of the terran race, rather because of the way units interact with each other. Same reason I love PvP.
No I mean in the past, you were a huge fan of some terran players iirc. Not that it means you are a terran fanboy anyway. Sorry if my impressions/recalls about you were totally wrong, it wasn't against you anyway, I was actually kinda "defending" you against some accusations of blind protoss fanboyism And I am sure you are not.
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Looks like the Semis will be stacked with protoss. This RO8 lacks Terrans with momentum, unless Maru still has it. Innovation is slipping, and had a rather short peroid when he got to top 3 in tournaments and that was during the first few months after HOTS was release. he has been on the decline ever since from what i can tell. Im not saying either is bad, but right now i would say they are just about round 16-level. making Maru advancing might be terrans best chance. I believe he has the best TvP out of any remaining Terran.
WHERE IS OUR BOMBER
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EPT
