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On September 25 2013 22:35 AxionSteel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 22:33 samurai80 wrote:On September 25 2013 22:29 AxionSteel wrote:On September 25 2013 22:26 Huragius wrote:On September 25 2013 22:02 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 25 2013 21:50 Huragius wrote:On September 25 2013 21:42 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 25 2013 21:41 Huragius wrote:On September 25 2013 21:38 DarkLordOlli wrote:
PvP probably has the widest range of viable builds, strategies and tech routes out of any matchup. Every unit has a role in PvP. It's pretty cool. Mhm, TvT ? Not really. In PvP you can open with every tech route, you can fast expand, you can do crazy cheese like cannon rushes, proxy gates, you can proxy pretty much everything, you can go every tech route and cheese with it, you can go every tech route and macro with it. TvT is either bio/tank or mech. You can not only open with all routes of tech in TvT, but you can do a lot of their variations as well, from gas first into fast starport, reactor hellion expand, reaper expand, 14 CC and etc. As well in TvT you can have have m ost interesting mid game compositions (Marine/Tank, Mass Hellion/Viking/Banshee, Pure Bio, Pure mech). Also, you can go either bio, mech or sky terran at later stages at the game. While compositions in PvP gets pretty stale and similar. And with that last sentence, you just sound like a blind protoss fan with not much of TvT knowledge. This has nothing to do with anything and is your opinion only. There are only two general tech routes though, mech and bio. You can open starport but you'll have to transition into either or you lose. You can open hellion drop or proxy something, same story. In PvP you can either transition out or stay on that tech. You can switch anytime you see an opportunity whereas going from one to the other in TvT is impossible. PvP feels a lot more flexible than TvT. So my opinion is only my opinion, but yours' is an argument ?(Despite me pointing out reasons why I think so) Also, then what is a tech route ? You compare two fundamentally different races, but pick only those 'arguments' about tech choices that supports your opinion and dismiss others ? I can oversimplify protoss play style the same as you did with terrans: you either go gateway tech focused or robo focused. You can open with stargate to harass but transitioning to it during early game is impossible because you will die. Isn't the same with TvT? Having a raven, few banshees or some vikings is considered as a transitioning out of starport opening, but mixing in few voidrays or some phenixes is 'another available tech route in PvP'. And no, you can transition in TvT, and if you payed at least any attention to high level past-mid game TvTs you would have noticed smooth transitions to skyterran (from both meching player and bio player), bio with tank support (form bio player against meching player) and even raven viking (from bio player with a lot of spare gas). At later stages of the game, you will even see ghosts to EMP ravens and BC. Also- nukes. Your discussion skills and cherry picking is just silly. So what you feel doesn't mean a lot, and majority of people do agree that TvT still holds the title as most flexible and interesting match-up of all (however it must be played at korean level to be so). And you can notice that by reactions of viewers after every good TvT in any major tournament. Same can't be said about PvP. Doesn't really matter if PvP is more ""flexible"", doesn't really matter what they make or switch up, they're all protoss units in the end  Nothing can match the beauty of TvT : ) It's What a real RTS game should look like!! I don't like TvT too much for the above quoted reasons, and kinda like the PvP in HotS for all its variations. But tastes cannot be discussed I guess You don't like terran much, i can see that from all your whining posts about them. TvT is typically the most popular matchup to watch and has been for a long time. Many of the most highly recommended games and memorable games are TvT. Of course people have different opinions but generally that's how it is 
Probably most of the people think that but not me. And it has nothing to do with me prefering the protoss race to the terran race.
It's more because of the variety of the m-u. I did hate the PvP in WoL and I remember mentionning it. In WoL TvZ was probably the best m-u to me, I was not a huge fan of TvT compared to TvP and ZvZ, but I recognized several times that it was still much better to watch compared to PvP and PvZ. And these two m-u improved a lot in HotS, so that I now prefer PvP to TvT. I like variations and stuff. The TvT with its positionning and multi prong harass is really cool to see sometimes, but it still has less variations imho.
Also recently I "whine" a lot against these ugly scv pulls, that are really not interesting to watch at all. If only TvP had stayed as it was before the last HB nerf :`(
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On September 25 2013 22:35 AxionSteel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 22:33 samurai80 wrote:On September 25 2013 22:29 AxionSteel wrote:On September 25 2013 22:26 Huragius wrote:On September 25 2013 22:02 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 25 2013 21:50 Huragius wrote:On September 25 2013 21:42 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 25 2013 21:41 Huragius wrote:On September 25 2013 21:38 DarkLordOlli wrote:
PvP probably has the widest range of viable builds, strategies and tech routes out of any matchup. Every unit has a role in PvP. It's pretty cool. Mhm, TvT ? Not really. In PvP you can open with every tech route, you can fast expand, you can do crazy cheese like cannon rushes, proxy gates, you can proxy pretty much everything, you can go every tech route and cheese with it, you can go every tech route and macro with it. TvT is either bio/tank or mech. You can not only open with all routes of tech in TvT, but you can do a lot of their variations as well, from gas first into fast starport, reactor hellion expand, reaper expand, 14 CC and etc. As well in TvT you can have have m ost interesting mid game compositions (Marine/Tank, Mass Hellion/Viking/Banshee, Pure Bio, Pure mech). Also, you can go either bio, mech or sky terran at later stages at the game. While compositions in PvP gets pretty stale and similar. And with that last sentence, you just sound like a blind protoss fan with not much of TvT knowledge. This has nothing to do with anything and is your opinion only. There are only two general tech routes though, mech and bio. You can open starport but you'll have to transition into either or you lose. You can open hellion drop or proxy something, same story. In PvP you can either transition out or stay on that tech. You can switch anytime you see an opportunity whereas going from one to the other in TvT is impossible. PvP feels a lot more flexible than TvT. So my opinion is only my opinion, but yours' is an argument ?(Despite me pointing out reasons why I think so) Also, then what is a tech route ? You compare two fundamentally different races, but pick only those 'arguments' about tech choices that supports your opinion and dismiss others ? I can oversimplify protoss play style the same as you did with terrans: you either go gateway tech focused or robo focused. You can open with stargate to harass but transitioning to it during early game is impossible because you will die. Isn't the same with TvT? Having a raven, few banshees or some vikings is considered as a transitioning out of starport opening, but mixing in few voidrays or some phenixes is 'another available tech route in PvP'. And no, you can transition in TvT, and if you payed at least any attention to high level past-mid game TvTs you would have noticed smooth transitions to skyterran (from both meching player and bio player), bio with tank support (form bio player against meching player) and even raven viking (from bio player with a lot of spare gas). At later stages of the game, you will even see ghosts to EMP ravens and BC. Also- nukes. Your discussion skills and cherry picking is just silly. So what you feel doesn't mean a lot, and majority of people do agree that TvT still holds the title as most flexible and interesting match-up of all (however it must be played at korean level to be so). And you can notice that by reactions of viewers after every good TvT in any major tournament. Same can't be said about PvP. Doesn't really matter if PvP is more ""flexible"", doesn't really matter what they make or switch up, they're all protoss units in the end Nothing can match the beauty of TvT : ) It's What a real RTS game should look like!! I don't like TvT too much for the above quoted reasons, and kinda like the PvP in HotS for all its variations. But tastes cannot be discussed I guess You don't like terran much, i can see that from all your whining posts about them.TvT is typically the most popular matchup to watch and has been for a long time. Many of the most highly recommended games and memorable games are TvT. Of course people have different opinions but generally that's how it is
Also, I should add that if you think I am whining about terrans, it is more disappointment that whining most of the time.
Actually I had not a lot of time to watch SC2 recently, and in fact I watched a lot of finals in important tourneys, most of them being won by terrans.
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On September 25 2013 22:35 AxionSteel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 22:33 samurai80 wrote:On September 25 2013 22:29 AxionSteel wrote:On September 25 2013 22:26 Huragius wrote:On September 25 2013 22:02 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 25 2013 21:50 Huragius wrote:On September 25 2013 21:42 DarkLordOlli wrote:On September 25 2013 21:41 Huragius wrote:On September 25 2013 21:38 DarkLordOlli wrote:
PvP probably has the widest range of viable builds, strategies and tech routes out of any matchup. Every unit has a role in PvP. It's pretty cool. Mhm, TvT ? Not really. In PvP you can open with every tech route, you can fast expand, you can do crazy cheese like cannon rushes, proxy gates, you can proxy pretty much everything, you can go every tech route and cheese with it, you can go every tech route and macro with it. TvT is either bio/tank or mech. You can not only open with all routes of tech in TvT, but you can do a lot of their variations as well, from gas first into fast starport, reactor hellion expand, reaper expand, 14 CC and etc. As well in TvT you can have have m ost interesting mid game compositions (Marine/Tank, Mass Hellion/Viking/Banshee, Pure Bio, Pure mech). Also, you can go either bio, mech or sky terran at later stages at the game. While compositions in PvP gets pretty stale and similar. And with that last sentence, you just sound like a blind protoss fan with not much of TvT knowledge. This has nothing to do with anything and is your opinion only. There are only two general tech routes though, mech and bio. You can open starport but you'll have to transition into either or you lose. You can open hellion drop or proxy something, same story. In PvP you can either transition out or stay on that tech. You can switch anytime you see an opportunity whereas going from one to the other in TvT is impossible. PvP feels a lot more flexible than TvT. So my opinion is only my opinion, but yours' is an argument ?(Despite me pointing out reasons why I think so) Also, then what is a tech route ? You compare two fundamentally different races, but pick only those 'arguments' about tech choices that supports your opinion and dismiss others ? I can oversimplify protoss play style the same as you did with terrans: you either go gateway tech focused or robo focused. You can open with stargate to harass but transitioning to it during early game is impossible because you will die. Isn't the same with TvT? Having a raven, few banshees or some vikings is considered as a transitioning out of starport opening, but mixing in few voidrays or some phenixes is 'another available tech route in PvP'. And no, you can transition in TvT, and if you payed at least any attention to high level past-mid game TvTs you would have noticed smooth transitions to skyterran (from both meching player and bio player), bio with tank support (form bio player against meching player) and even raven viking (from bio player with a lot of spare gas). At later stages of the game, you will even see ghosts to EMP ravens and BC. Also- nukes. Your discussion skills and cherry picking is just silly. So what you feel doesn't mean a lot, and majority of people do agree that TvT still holds the title as most flexible and interesting match-up of all (however it must be played at korean level to be so). And you can notice that by reactions of viewers after every good TvT in any major tournament. Same can't be said about PvP. Doesn't really matter if PvP is more ""flexible"", doesn't really matter what they make or switch up, they're all protoss units in the end Nothing can match the beauty of TvT : ) It's What a real RTS game should look like!! I don't like TvT too much for the above quoted reasons, and kinda like the PvP in HotS for all its variations. But tastes cannot be discussed I guess You don't like terran much, i can see that from all your whining posts about them. TvT is typically the most popular matchup to watch and has been for a long time. Many of the most highly recommended games and memorable games are TvT. Of course people have different opinions but generally that's how it is
Most of that is just leftover nostalgia from a time past when all Protoss MUs were bad in Wings. This is no longer the case, the Protoss matchups(sans Terran) are greatly improved and SHOULD be considered the best matchups right now. For whatever reason people are resistant to this idea, but we have seen a lot of fantastic PvZ in HOTS.
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Apparently this helped my Liquibets! I wish sOs would have beaten Trap though.
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United States97277 Posts
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On September 25 2013 23:51 sc2holar wrote:
Looks like the Semis will be stacked with protoss. This RO8 lacks Terrans with momentum, unless Maru still has it. Innovation is slipping, and had a rather short peroid when he got to top 3 in tournaments and that was during the first few months after HOTS was release. he has been on the decline ever since from what i can tell. Im not saying either is bad, but right now i would say they are just about round 16-level. making Maru advancing might be terrans best chance. I believe he has the best TvP out of any remaining Terran.
WHERE IS OUR BOMBER
pretty sure innovation is still reaching top4 of almost every tournament he enters...
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How come the videos are not updated yet?
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On September 25 2013 18:41 DJHelium wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 18:41 Dodgin wrote:
time for bed /lost my passion have fun everyone Really? What would optergod do?
go watch Dota 2
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No VODs yet, which is really weird by Gom standards, and I'm trying not to get spoiled. Anyone know what's up?
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On September 26 2013 07:46 Steel wrote:
No VODs yet, which is really weird by Gom standards, and I'm trying not to get spoiled. Anyone know what's up?
Are twitch vods ok for you? http://www.twitch.tv/wcs_gsl/c/2988311 is the first game of the group.
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Where are the VODs? Usually they're really quick to upload them. I would read around in here but I don't want to get spoiled lol.
edit: haha, right in the post above me...
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On September 26 2013 08:03 Die4Ever wrote:
Where are the VODs? Usually they're really quick to upload them. I would read around in here but I don't want to get spoiled lol.
edit: haha, right in the post above me...
you got it
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On September 26 2013 08:03 Die4Ever wrote:
Where are the VODs? Usually they're really quick to upload them. I would read around in here but I don't want to get spoiled lol.
edit: haha, right in the post above me...
You will get spoiled by the way twitch VODs are arranged instead.
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EPT
