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On July 23 2013 20:50 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:44 Douillos wrote:On July 23 2013 20:42 TheDwf wrote:On July 23 2013 20:40 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 23 2013 20:40 Emzeeshady wrote:On July 23 2013 20:37 TheDwf wrote:On July 23 2013 20:36 robson1 wrote:On July 23 2013 20:36 bo1b wrote:
I actually think it's pretty cool innovation can use the same build every tvz. It's nice that there is a standard macro build which isn't too greedy or aggressive, and which makes you win or lose based on mechanics. 3 cc 26 supply into double upgrades. Not to greedy. No it's not. Deal with it. haha oh lord  Yeah, indeed... I don't know if they are trolling us or they actually believe that. Or we understand something that you don't? If 3 CC into double Ebay is un-punishable, admit that something is wrong with the game. But that isn't true, and we will see in the fnext few games  Why? Why do people think everything should be "punishable"? There would be a problem if, for instance, Terran could punish a fast third while Zerg couldn't. As it stands now, neither side can really punish a fast third, so where's the problem? Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:44 Emzeeshady wrote:
3 cc double ups just straight up loses to a roach bane bust... No. You can defend. It's extremely forgiving so you fall behind or instantly lose at the first misstep but you can definitely defend it. You think Terrans are stupid and keep playing as a standard something which would lose 100% of the time to that attack? Standard Terran macro builds are forced to take into account the threat of Roach/Baneling busts since they exist; in WoL you played Hellions/Banshees to handle that, in HotS Mines coupled with excellent control allow you to skip the Starport and get earlier third and upgrades.
yea but terran can punish a zerg for going a faster 4th though....
If zerg army is cost efficient against the bio mine, then fast 3rd vs fast 3rd argument might be more acceptable
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On July 23 2013 20:51 Rhaegal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:48 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 23 2013 20:46 Rhaegal wrote:On July 23 2013 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 23 2013 20:43 NarutO wrote:On July 23 2013 20:41 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Terran seems pretty bad at the highest level
/s Jesus give us a break. INnoVation _IS_ the best player in the world right now, especially in this match up. SoulKey went for a timing and it didn't work AT ALL. Jesus, stop balance whining when Terran is statistically inferior right now. If it wasn't for Flash and INnoVation Terran would get utterly dominated. It's got nothing to do with balance whine. It's more a reverse argument to people like you and Dwf constantly arguing about how weak terran is. There's always one or two terrans who "just happen to be the best player in the world" and dominate everything. I'll start taking these statistics seriously when protoss beats terran in a BoX at the highest level. Ok, so OSL in 2 days? Maybe, who knows. Fact is, Innovation 4-0d sOs in the last "highest level BoX series" at the WCS Finals. Wasn't sOs supposed to be the best protoss or something? I did hear people calling him that. The whine about terran being carried by a few players is silly. Protoss gets carried by a bunch of people who rule the "middle ground" of leagues like PL and individual leagues but get dominated by the best terrans. So what exactly is worse? Innovation was the best player in the world even in wings. And are you forgetting about Rain? he dominates T.
eh i don't know about WoL...
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On July 23 2013 20:43 Makro wrote:
soulkey has still one solution : pray
i don't see how he can manage innovation
yeah, pray to flash to jump into innovations soul and make him feel all the dead zerg souls that he has sent to the eternal hell of the swarm. so innovation pulls a bomber.. 
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On July 23 2013 20:50 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:44 Douillos wrote:On July 23 2013 20:42 TheDwf wrote:On July 23 2013 20:40 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 23 2013 20:40 Emzeeshady wrote:On July 23 2013 20:37 TheDwf wrote:On July 23 2013 20:36 robson1 wrote:On July 23 2013 20:36 bo1b wrote:
I actually think it's pretty cool innovation can use the same build every tvz. It's nice that there is a standard macro build which isn't too greedy or aggressive, and which makes you win or lose based on mechanics. 3 cc 26 supply into double upgrades. Not to greedy. No it's not. Deal with it. haha oh lord Yeah, indeed... I don't know if they are trolling us or they actually believe that. Or we understand something that you don't? If 3 CC into double Ebay is un-punishable, admit that something is wrong with the game. But that isn't true, and we will see in the fnext few games Why? Why do people think everything should be "punishable"? There would be a problem if, for instance, Terran could punish a fast third while Zerg couldn't. As it stands now, neither side can really punish a fast third, so where's the problem? Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:44 Emzeeshady wrote:
3 cc double ups just straight up loses to a roach bane bust... No. You can defend. It's extremely forgiving so you fall behind or instantly lose at the first misstep but you can definitely defend it. You think Terrans are stupid and keep playing as a standard something which would lose 100% of the time to that attack? Standard Terran macro builds are forced to take into account the threat of Roach/Baneling busts since they exist; in WoL you played Hellions/Banshees to handle that, in HotS Mines coupled with excellent control allow you to skip the Starport and get earlier third and upgrades.
Because it leads to turtle fests, 15 minutes no rush games. I know you're good at the game, but I still disagree with you're standpoint on this.
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TLADT24920 Posts
what are you guys talking about? so many arguments being thrown around? >< btw when are vods going to be up?
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On July 23 2013 20:49 DidYuhim wrote:Imagine Byun sitting in the studio, wearing the Darth Vader's mask.
Maru... im ur father... supson
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Artosis trying to game his curse now LOL
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On July 23 2013 20:51 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:49 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 23 2013 20:46 NarutO wrote:On July 23 2013 20:45 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 23 2013 20:43 NarutO wrote:On July 23 2013 20:41 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Terran seems pretty bad at the highest level
/s Jesus give us a break. INnoVation _IS_ the best player in the world right now, especially in this match up. SoulKey went for a timing and it didn't work AT ALL. Jesus, stop balance whining when Terran is statistically inferior right now. If it wasn't for Flash and INnoVation Terran would get utterly dominated. Are we forgetting Maru? Maru is nowhere near the level of the players named above and Symbol played piss-poorly sorry to say  Bullshit, Symbol played as well as he's BEEN playing to make it this far. Maru just played better, a whole lot better. His control was on par with what Innovation is doing, his Macro isn't up that level but he's by no means worth ignoring. Symbol didn't really. He didn't even really use his style which could have worked well as we could see in the game on Akilon which he threw away. He cancelled his upgrades in one game to make mutas, then restarted them. He didn't upgrade in one game at all against 2-2. Please don't tell me that was Symbols a-game ...
I cant think of a TvZ in recent memory from Symbol that displayed a convincingly higher level of play from what we just saw, then again, how many games from Symbol have we seen actually go late vs Terran. This series vs Maru is probably a good indicator for why we haven't.
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On July 23 2013 20:52 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:51 Rhaegal wrote:On July 23 2013 20:48 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 23 2013 20:46 Rhaegal wrote:On July 23 2013 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 23 2013 20:43 NarutO wrote:On July 23 2013 20:41 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Terran seems pretty bad at the highest level
/s Jesus give us a break. INnoVation _IS_ the best player in the world right now, especially in this match up. SoulKey went for a timing and it didn't work AT ALL. Jesus, stop balance whining when Terran is statistically inferior right now. If it wasn't for Flash and INnoVation Terran would get utterly dominated. It's got nothing to do with balance whine. It's more a reverse argument to people like you and Dwf constantly arguing about how weak terran is. There's always one or two terrans who "just happen to be the best player in the world" and dominate everything. I'll start taking these statistics seriously when protoss beats terran in a BoX at the highest level. Ok, so OSL in 2 days? Maybe, who knows. Fact is, Innovation 4-0d sOs in the last "highest level BoX series" at the WCS Finals. Wasn't sOs supposed to be the best protoss or something? I did hear people calling him that. The whine about terran being carried by a few players is silly. Protoss gets carried by a bunch of people who rule the "middle ground" of leagues like PL and individual leagues but get dominated by the best terrans. So what exactly is worse? Innovation was the best player in the world even in wings. And are you forgetting about Rain? he dominates T. eh i don't know about WoL...
Ye, Bogus didn't even win a single championship in WoL. I wonder why, lol.
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On July 23 2013 20:52 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:51 Rhaegal wrote:On July 23 2013 20:48 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 23 2013 20:46 Rhaegal wrote:On July 23 2013 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 23 2013 20:43 NarutO wrote:On July 23 2013 20:41 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Terran seems pretty bad at the highest level
/s Jesus give us a break. INnoVation _IS_ the best player in the world right now, especially in this match up. SoulKey went for a timing and it didn't work AT ALL. Jesus, stop balance whining when Terran is statistically inferior right now. If it wasn't for Flash and INnoVation Terran would get utterly dominated. It's got nothing to do with balance whine. It's more a reverse argument to people like you and Dwf constantly arguing about how weak terran is. There's always one or two terrans who "just happen to be the best player in the world" and dominate everything. I'll start taking these statistics seriously when protoss beats terran in a BoX at the highest level. Ok, so OSL in 2 days? Maybe, who knows. Fact is, Innovation 4-0d sOs in the last "highest level BoX series" at the WCS Finals. Wasn't sOs supposed to be the best protoss or something? I did hear people calling him that. The whine about terran being carried by a few players is silly. Protoss gets carried by a bunch of people who rule the "middle ground" of leagues like PL and individual leagues but get dominated by the best terrans. So what exactly is worse? Innovation was the best player in the world even in wings. And are you forgetting about Rain? he dominates T. eh i don't know about WoL...
Lol nah, i think thats overreaching
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On July 23 2013 20:52 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:47 bo1b wrote:On July 23 2013 20:44 Emzeeshady wrote:On July 23 2013 20:42 TheDwf wrote:On July 23 2013 20:40 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 23 2013 20:40 Emzeeshady wrote:On July 23 2013 20:37 TheDwf wrote:On July 23 2013 20:36 robson1 wrote:On July 23 2013 20:36 bo1b wrote:
I actually think it's pretty cool innovation can use the same build every tvz. It's nice that there is a standard macro build which isn't too greedy or aggressive, and which makes you win or lose based on mechanics. 3 cc 26 supply into double upgrades. Not to greedy. No it's not. Deal with it. haha oh lord Yeah, indeed... I don't know if they are trolling us or they actually believe that. Or we understand something that you don't? 3 cc double ups just straight up loses to a roach bane bust... If that is not greedy then what is? 4 CC, double bio plus mech ups? There is a big difference between making an early oc, and taking an early 3rd base. You can say that even for 5 CC, double ebay, I guess that also wouldn't be greedy.
There's a logical fallacy for that sort of statement.
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On July 23 2013 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:43 NarutO wrote:On July 23 2013 20:41 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Terran seems pretty bad at the highest level
/s Jesus give us a break. INnoVation _IS_ the best player in the world right now, especially in this match up. SoulKey went for a timing and it didn't work AT ALL. Jesus, stop balance whining when Terran is statistically inferior right now. If it wasn't for Flash and INnoVation Terran would get utterly dominated. It's got nothing to do with balance whine. It's more a reverse argument to people like you and Dwf constantly arguing about how weak terran is. There's always one or two terrans who "just happen to be the best player in the world" and dominate everything. I'll start taking these statistics seriously when protoss beats terran in a BoX at the highest level.
Agreed. If players aren't able to play up to the standard of innovation, then it isn't the race that si weak, but the other players.
Decent series so far. Some interesting stuff from soulkey, but innovation has been playing really sharply.
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Austria24417 Posts
On July 23 2013 20:51 Rhaegal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:48 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 23 2013 20:46 Rhaegal wrote:On July 23 2013 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 23 2013 20:43 NarutO wrote:On July 23 2013 20:41 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Terran seems pretty bad at the highest level
/s Jesus give us a break. INnoVation _IS_ the best player in the world right now, especially in this match up. SoulKey went for a timing and it didn't work AT ALL. Jesus, stop balance whining when Terran is statistically inferior right now. If it wasn't for Flash and INnoVation Terran would get utterly dominated. It's got nothing to do with balance whine. It's more a reverse argument to people like you and Dwf constantly arguing about how weak terran is. There's always one or two terrans who "just happen to be the best player in the world" and dominate everything. I'll start taking these statistics seriously when protoss beats terran in a BoX at the highest level. Ok, so OSL in 2 days? Maybe, who knows. Fact is, Innovation 4-0d sOs in the last "highest level BoX series" at the WCS Finals. Wasn't sOs supposed to be the best protoss or something? I did hear people calling him that. The whine about terran being carried by a few players is silly. Protoss gets carried by a bunch of people who rule the "middle ground" of leagues like PL and individual leagues but get dominated by the best terrans. So what exactly is worse? Innovation was the best player in the world even in wings. And are you forgetting about Rain? he dominates T.
He also got knocked out of GSL by Innovation and Gumiho, both 0-2
Like, sure this discussion is dumb. Protoss has a harder time winning consistently at the absolute highest level but dominate the middle ground if you wanna call it that. There's no better or worse. All I'm saying is people should stop arguing about how weak terran is.
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On July 23 2013 20:52 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:51 Rhaegal wrote:On July 23 2013 20:48 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 23 2013 20:46 Rhaegal wrote:On July 23 2013 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 23 2013 20:43 NarutO wrote:On July 23 2013 20:41 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Terran seems pretty bad at the highest level
/s Jesus give us a break. INnoVation _IS_ the best player in the world right now, especially in this match up. SoulKey went for a timing and it didn't work AT ALL. Jesus, stop balance whining when Terran is statistically inferior right now. If it wasn't for Flash and INnoVation Terran would get utterly dominated. It's got nothing to do with balance whine. It's more a reverse argument to people like you and Dwf constantly arguing about how weak terran is. There's always one or two terrans who "just happen to be the best player in the world" and dominate everything. I'll start taking these statistics seriously when protoss beats terran in a BoX at the highest level. Ok, so OSL in 2 days? Maybe, who knows. Fact is, Innovation 4-0d sOs in the last "highest level BoX series" at the WCS Finals. Wasn't sOs supposed to be the best protoss or something? I did hear people calling him that. The whine about terran being carried by a few players is silly. Protoss gets carried by a bunch of people who rule the "middle ground" of leagues like PL and individual leagues but get dominated by the best terrans. So what exactly is worse? Innovation was the best player in the world even in wings. And are you forgetting about Rain? he dominates T. eh i don't know about WoL...
I dont think innovation was that good in WoL, there is a history recap on the wcs YT channel. MVP was the best terran in WoL.
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On July 23 2013 20:52 DidYuhim wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:51 paradoxOO9 wrote:On July 23 2013 20:48 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 23 2013 20:46 Rhaegal wrote:On July 23 2013 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 23 2013 20:43 NarutO wrote:On July 23 2013 20:41 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Terran seems pretty bad at the highest level
/s Jesus give us a break. INnoVation _IS_ the best player in the world right now, especially in this match up. SoulKey went for a timing and it didn't work AT ALL. Jesus, stop balance whining when Terran is statistically inferior right now. If it wasn't for Flash and INnoVation Terran would get utterly dominated. It's got nothing to do with balance whine. It's more a reverse argument to people like you and Dwf constantly arguing about how weak terran is. There's always one or two terrans who "just happen to be the best player in the world" and dominate everything. I'll start taking these statistics seriously when protoss beats terran in a BoX at the highest level. Ok, so OSL in 2 days? Maybe, who knows. Fact is, Innovation 4-0d sOs in the last "highest level BoX series" at the WCS Finals. Wasn't sOs supposed to be the best protoss or something? I did hear people calling him that. The whine about terran being carried by a few players is silly. Protoss gets carried by a bunch of people who get dominated by the best terrans. So what exactly is worse? As much as I love Bomber, First is going to dismantle him I feel. Rain is kinda favoured against Supernova as well Bomber took a huge dump on First in GSTL, though.
Yeah but a BOX is a whole different game, and we haven't seen the bomber effect kick in yet, it is due
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Next time artosis tries to qualify he should predict his opponents to win every game. Maybe he'll manage to get Code A this time.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On July 23 2013 20:55 Yonnua wrote:Next time artosis tries to qualify he should predict his opponents to win every game. Maybe he'll manage to get Code A this time.
ahaha wp
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On July 23 2013 20:53 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:51 Rhaegal wrote:On July 23 2013 20:48 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 23 2013 20:46 Rhaegal wrote:On July 23 2013 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 23 2013 20:43 NarutO wrote:On July 23 2013 20:41 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Terran seems pretty bad at the highest level
/s Jesus give us a break. INnoVation _IS_ the best player in the world right now, especially in this match up. SoulKey went for a timing and it didn't work AT ALL. Jesus, stop balance whining when Terran is statistically inferior right now. If it wasn't for Flash and INnoVation Terran would get utterly dominated. It's got nothing to do with balance whine. It's more a reverse argument to people like you and Dwf constantly arguing about how weak terran is. There's always one or two terrans who "just happen to be the best player in the world" and dominate everything. I'll start taking these statistics seriously when protoss beats terran in a BoX at the highest level. Ok, so OSL in 2 days? Maybe, who knows. Fact is, Innovation 4-0d sOs in the last "highest level BoX series" at the WCS Finals. Wasn't sOs supposed to be the best protoss or something? I did hear people calling him that. The whine about terran being carried by a few players is silly. Protoss gets carried by a bunch of people who rule the "middle ground" of leagues like PL and individual leagues but get dominated by the best terrans. So what exactly is worse? Innovation was the best player in the world even in wings. And are you forgetting about Rain? he dominates T. He also got knocked out of GSL by Innovation and Gumiho, both 0-2 Like, sure this discussion is dumb. Protoss has a harder time winning consistently at the absolute highest level but dominate the middle ground if you wanna call it that. There's no better or worse. All I'm saying is people should stop arguing about how weak terran is.
Terran is not that weak agreed. I think there is a very good chance for 3 terrans in Ro4
Yeah but a BOX is a whole different game, and we haven't seen the bomber effect kick in yet, it is due
First had ONE really great series that fueled all his hype. And fantasy isn't even thaaaat great.
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EPT
