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No balance whining, caster bashing, or player bashing in this thread. |
On February 01 2013 21:59 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:47 AxionSteel wrote:
Wolf is better than Artosis imo. He's far less biased, when I listen to Artosis cast a ZvT, it's 80% about zerg, what they need to do to get the win etc. And as a solo caster, Wolf does an impeccable job.
Yeah I agree. Artosis was very vocal at the beginning of the game when zerg was up, he was very vocal during 1/1/1 TvP era, but when terran has it rough it almost seems like he trolls with "beautiful fungals". I actually think Wolf is the best GSL caster but Artosis and Tasteless are just more popular because of their bro relationship. Artosis-Wolf would be a good analytical and more objective cast I feel. Tasteless just complies to whatever Artosis is saying.
Tasteless is just a parrot I agree. Artosis' bias really shows when a P is playing. Him and Tasteless are both P players so they talk a lot more about the protoss build than their opponent.
Wofl owned it today though. Not a fan of him and Khaldor, but solo wolf is epic.
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On February 01 2013 22:00 Bam Lee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:57 Zane wrote:On February 01 2013 21:56 redFF wrote:On February 01 2013 21:53 Zane wrote:On February 01 2013 21:52 Laryleprakon wrote:On February 01 2013 21:51 FineAndDandy wrote:
Jinro still has the best foreign achievement in GSL? Yes. By a large margin. Eh not really. Jinro made 2 semi-finals. Naniwa made 2 quarter finals when the competition was much much harder. Stephano and HuK made ro32 when competition was much much harder than Naniwa's runs. stephano got seeded. And so did Huk,although huk atleast advanced from his up and down group. Stephano was seeded straight into ro32
I know, I just think it's silly to say Naniwa's 2 ro8s are better than Jinro's 2 ro4s just because the overall level of play was higher. And Naniwa was seeded as well.
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results so far (just for information)
TvZ 16-28 36%
ZvP 8-13 38%
PvT 4-4 50%
TERRAN 38%
PROTOSS 58%
ZERG 55%
meh i'm sad for my fellow terrans! 
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On February 01 2013 22:01 BoxingKangaroo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:59 Qwerty85 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:47 AxionSteel wrote:
Wolf is better than Artosis imo. He's far less biased, when I listen to Artosis cast a ZvT, it's 80% about zerg, what they need to do to get the win etc. And as a solo caster, Wolf does an impeccable job.
Yeah I agree. Artosis was very vocal at the beginning of the game when zerg was up, he was very vocal during 1/1/1 TvP era, but when terran has it rough it almost seems like he trolls with "beautiful fungals". I actually think Wolf is the best GSL caster but Artosis and Tasteless are just more popular because of their bro relationship. Artosis-Wolf would be a good analytical and more objective cast I feel. Tasteless just complies to whatever Artosis is saying. Tasteless is just a parrot I agree. Artosis' bias really shows when a P is playing. Him and Tasteless are both P players so they talk a lot more about the protoss build than their opponent. Wofl owned it today though. Not a fan of him and Khaldor, but solo wolf is epic.
does tasteless even play sc2 anymore?
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On February 01 2013 21:46 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:43 decado90 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:42 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:40 derpface wrote:On February 01 2013 21:37 Weryeery wrote:
Terran hard race right? lol... just admit Bogus is more skilled than Stephano. They were a good match for each other. I dont want to jump to any conclusions about who's more skilled by just one series. Innovation made the Semis last season and beat a lot of top Zergs to get there. he's definitely quality. But Stephano stuck right there with him and in the same night also outclassed Hack. He's a top Zerg even if his haters don't want to admit it. He got put in a tough group and barely didnt make it out. No harm in that, better players than him have said the same thing. Code S is tough and Stephano just learned that firsthand. Are you serious dude? Bogus is so much better than Stephano. He actually has a chance to win the GSL for starters. Dead serious. Stephano is a superior macro player in general IMO but Innovation beat him using superior decision making and early game tactics. A lot of that has to do with a probable lack of preparation on Stephano's part which is normal considering that GSL is much different than any of the marathon foreigner events he's used to playing. I think given time to adjust more to the way GSL is played as well as some better scouting I think Stephano could take him in a long series. His game number 2 was about as one sided as a TvZ can possibly be which tells me that if Innovation doesn't manage to secure an early advantage somehow that Stephano will crush him with his superior late game. It's a normal dynamic between players of similar skill level. Again I'm not trying to buy into the blind Stephano hype that a lot of his fans have I'm just trying to be objective about the series I watched just now. He totally outclassed hack and looked like he had Innovation's number once it hit the later game his Achilles heel was his early game and if he can somehow shore that up with better preparation I think he can beat Innovation in a series. Nothing against Innovation I think he's a terrific Terran but that's just the way I see it.
You seem to be the most level-headed poster in here. 
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On February 01 2013 21:55 AxionSteel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:54 SHODAN wrote:On February 01 2013 21:47 vthree wrote:On February 01 2013 21:44 SHODAN wrote:Artosis mentioned something about swarmy mass raxx style builds in Brood War. A few season ago, MVP went for a 5 rax into 7 rax build vs Parting. Bogus did the same thing - attack fast, upgrade steadily, expand slowly and trade well. Stephano GG Problem is that it is more of a surprise/gimmick build. All 3 races have ways to deal with it fairly easily if scouted. Terrans with bunkers into tanks. Protoss with sentries before getting colossi. Zerg with lots of lings and banes. It takes 7 banelings to kill 1 marauder with equal upgrades... Obviously you'd try and hit marines with them  Lings to clean up the Marauders.
I don't get why people are calling Bogus' build an all-in or gimmick. It's not standard, but it's a solid style. If his first attack hadn't of done enough damage, I could see him throwing down a late 3rd CC, late factory, armory, then hitting a third attack.
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On February 01 2013 22:00 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:58 SiroKO wrote:On February 01 2013 21:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:49 vthree wrote:On February 01 2013 21:46 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:43 decado90 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:42 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:40 derpface wrote:On February 01 2013 21:37 Weryeery wrote:
Terran hard race right? lol... just admit Bogus is more skilled than Stephano. They were a good match for each other. I dont want to jump to any conclusions about who's more skilled by just one series. Innovation made the Semis last season and beat a lot of top Zergs to get there. he's definitely quality. But Stephano stuck right there with him and in the same night also outclassed Hack. He's a top Zerg even if his haters don't want to admit it. He got put in a tough group and barely didnt make it out. No harm in that, better players than him have said the same thing. Code S is tough and Stephano just learned that firsthand. Are you serious dude? Bogus is so much better than Stephano. He actually has a chance to win the GSL for starters. Dead serious. Stephano is a superior macro player in general IMO but Innovation beat him using superior decision making and early game tactics. A lot of that has to do with a probable lack of preparation on Stephano's part which is normal considering that GSL is much different than any of the marathon foreigner events he's used to playing. I think given time to adjust more to the way GSL is played as well as some better scouting I think Stephano could take him in a long series. His game number 2 was about as one sided as a TvZ can possibly be which tells me that if Innovation doesn't manage to secure an early advantage somehow that Stephano will crush him with his superior late game. It's a normal dynamic between players of similar skill level. I think Stephano and Bogus' macro play are on a similar level. But the game gives the advantage to macro zergs over macro terrans right now. The terrans basically needs to stifle the zerg's eco before it gets out of hand. Did you see Bomber's games by chance? I mean in general there's definitely an advantage for Zergs in the later game if they aren't harassed or pressured that's obvious sure, but game 2 was more than just the Zerg late game advantage. Stephano beat Innovation in virtually every catergory. Superior macro, superior multitasking, superior army movement and scouting, superior compositions, unbelievable creep spread that was almost impossible to check. I mean yea Zerg has a nice late game advantage but I'd love to see Stephano try and trounce Bomber or Gumiho the way he slaughtered Innovation in game 2. Their late game play is far superior IMO. Bomber and Gumiho won a single bo3 against Sniper and now they're the TvZ messia... Lol why don't you stop with that? :D Bomber won quite a lot of TvZ recently, in good fashion. He really is the terran with the most chance to do well in this GSL TvZ wise if he doesn't choke like he did a lot of times in the past.
Bomber's TvZ is really good. But I still think he is a huge underdog vs Life, DRG. And slight underdog to Symbol. And probably 50/50 vs Curious, LosirA.
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On February 01 2013 22:01 Zane wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 22:00 Bam Lee wrote:On February 01 2013 21:57 Zane wrote:On February 01 2013 21:56 redFF wrote:On February 01 2013 21:53 Zane wrote:On February 01 2013 21:52 Laryleprakon wrote:On February 01 2013 21:51 FineAndDandy wrote:
Jinro still has the best foreign achievement in GSL? Yes. By a large margin. Eh not really. Jinro made 2 semi-finals. Naniwa made 2 quarter finals when the competition was much much harder. Stephano and HuK made ro32 when competition was much much harder than Naniwa's runs. stephano got seeded. And so did Huk,although huk atleast advanced from his up and down group. Stephano was seeded straight into ro32 I know, I just think it's silly to say Naniwa's 2 ro8s are better than Jinro's 2 ro4s just because the overall level of play was higher. And Naniwa was seeded as well.
wow that season 2 ro8 bracket looks so fabulous <3
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On February 01 2013 21:59 bittman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:56 redFF wrote:On February 01 2013 21:53 Zane wrote:On February 01 2013 21:52 Laryleprakon wrote:On February 01 2013 21:51 FineAndDandy wrote:
Jinro still has the best foreign achievement in GSL? Yes. By a large margin. Eh not really. Jinro made 2 semi-finals. Naniwa made 2 quarter finals when the competition was much much harder. The competition is much harder now and Stephano was able to come third in a group. Best achievement in GSL. Oh wait, that logic is silly. Jinro best achievement. Inca still has a better achivement than Bogus, even though Bogus is miles and away the better player. See how that works. Achivement is independent of skill level. Don't diminish things arbitrarily.
stephano plays zerg.
not whining but it should have an index. eg. if you score a goal in England Premier League(La Liga too), you get two points but if you score one in Netherland top league you only get 1.5 points.
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On February 01 2013 22:01 Flinch wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:54 Awesomeness wrote:On February 01 2013 21:52 sitromit wrote:
Is the "Stephano could win GSL" nonsense finally over now? Can we just call him the best foreigner and leave it at that? Can we do that AND stop the "Stephano is not code s level" nonsense? Now that would be great. Maybe if you tell me what he proved tonight that made him Code S level? 2-0ing Hack, a player who ISN'T Code S level? Going 1-4 against Innovation, being read like a book and demolished, a player who IS Code S level? IF Stephano makes it back to Code S then I'll consider him it, until then, no, he's just the best foreigner.
We live in a strange world. Where not being of "Code S level" means you are in Code S.
Truly, an age for the paradoxes.
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On February 01 2013 22:01 Morken wrote:
Hmm what kinda bothers me lately when watching Starcraft is that whenever someone uses a flank or a surround, he is considered a genius.
Why is it that after millenia of human warfare and now after years of pro-gaming in Starcraft, this still seems to be something extraordinary in this game? It's one of the simplest tactical moves (although a devastating one), and all historical battles basically revolved around avoiding to get flanked, yet flank yourself. This should also be standard in Starcraft, but all I see are people who clump up their units into a ball and walk straight onto an open field without any cover at all, just to get overwhelmed by a simple flank.
If this kind of army movement just hasn't caught on yet in Starcraft (since WoL is still somewhat young) I wouldn't care, but it highly annoys me that casters, analysts and all sorts of other people, who call themselves experts in strategy games, act like flanking a completely undefended army was a stroke of genius and something they have never seen before or never would have thought of themselves.
Because it takes extra effort to pull off. Just like how good macro or creep spread is impressive in execution, not bc they thought to do it.
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On February 01 2013 22:02 sadalsuud wrote:results so far (just for information) TvZ 16-28 36% ZvP 8-13 38% PvT 4-4 50% TERRAN 38% PROTOSS 58% ZERG 55% meh i'm sad for my fellow terrans!
Wow, Protoss are slaughtering zergs.
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On February 01 2013 22:04 bittman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 22:01 Flinch wrote:On February 01 2013 21:54 Awesomeness wrote:On February 01 2013 21:52 sitromit wrote:
Is the "Stephano could win GSL" nonsense finally over now? Can we just call him the best foreigner and leave it at that? Can we do that AND stop the "Stephano is not code s level" nonsense? Now that would be great. Maybe if you tell me what he proved tonight that made him Code S level? 2-0ing Hack, a player who ISN'T Code S level? Going 1-4 against Innovation, being read like a book and demolished, a player who IS Code S level? IF Stephano makes it back to Code S then I'll consider him it, until then, no, he's just the best foreigner. We live in a strange world. Where not being of "Code S level" means you are in Code S. Truly, an age for the paradoxes.
lol, and players in Code A, B at actually "Code S level"
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On February 01 2013 22:01 BoxingKangaroo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:59 Qwerty85 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:47 AxionSteel wrote:
Wolf is better than Artosis imo. He's far less biased, when I listen to Artosis cast a ZvT, it's 80% about zerg, what they need to do to get the win etc. And as a solo caster, Wolf does an impeccable job.
Yeah I agree. Artosis was very vocal at the beginning of the game when zerg was up, he was very vocal during 1/1/1 TvP era, but when terran has it rough it almost seems like he trolls with "beautiful fungals". I actually think Wolf is the best GSL caster but Artosis and Tasteless are just more popular because of their bro relationship. Artosis-Wolf would be a good analytical and more objective cast I feel. Tasteless just complies to whatever Artosis is saying. Tasteless is just a parrot I agree. Artosis' bias really shows when a P is playing. Him and Tasteless are both P players so they talk a lot more about the protoss build than their opponent. Wofl owned it today though. Not a fan of him and Khaldor, but solo wolf is epic.
Calling Tasteless a parrot is slightly harsh. He performs the role of explaining the action to the "beginner", as a sortof shoutcaster (similar to TotalBiscuit). While Artosis talks about the more technical side of things. It works great and always has. Wolf is ok, but makes far too many mistakes, and his knowledge is lacking.
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On February 01 2013 22:01 Flinch wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:54 Awesomeness wrote:On February 01 2013 21:52 sitromit wrote:
Is the "Stephano could win GSL" nonsense finally over now? Can we just call him the best foreigner and leave it at that? Can we do that AND stop the "Stephano is not code s level" nonsense? Now that would be great. Maybe if you tell me what he proved tonight that made him Code S level? 2-0ing Hack, a player who ISN'T Code S level? Going 1-4 against Innovation, being read like a book and demolished, a player who IS Code S level? IF Stephano makes it back to Code S then I'll consider him it, until then, no, he's just the best foreigner.
that's a little harsh? hack as far as i know qualified for code S fair and square?
he deserved to be in that group, and whilst he was clearly one of the weaker 32 players, had still earn't his right to be there, also, I didn't see stephano getting "demolished" by innovation? I saw an innovation was was better prepared and superior in terms of tactical choice, but in terms of ability i think stephano held his own and more (see game 2 of the 2nd series)... everyone know's hypetrains are annoying, but anti-fan bias is just as irritating
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On February 01 2013 22:05 FineAndDandy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 22:02 sadalsuud wrote:results so far (just for information) TvZ 16-28 36% ZvP 8-13 38% PvT 4-4 50% TERRAN 38% PROTOSS 58% ZERG 55% meh i'm sad for my fellow terrans! Wow, Protoss are slaughtering zergs.
Parting, Squirtle and MC are slaughtering zergs There's a difference.
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France12886 Posts
On February 01 2013 22:03 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 22:00 Poopi wrote:On February 01 2013 21:58 SiroKO wrote:On February 01 2013 21:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:49 vthree wrote:On February 01 2013 21:46 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:43 decado90 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:42 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:40 derpface wrote:On February 01 2013 21:37 Weryeery wrote:
Terran hard race right? lol... just admit Bogus is more skilled than Stephano. They were a good match for each other. I dont want to jump to any conclusions about who's more skilled by just one series. Innovation made the Semis last season and beat a lot of top Zergs to get there. he's definitely quality. But Stephano stuck right there with him and in the same night also outclassed Hack. He's a top Zerg even if his haters don't want to admit it. He got put in a tough group and barely didnt make it out. No harm in that, better players than him have said the same thing. Code S is tough and Stephano just learned that firsthand. Are you serious dude? Bogus is so much better than Stephano. He actually has a chance to win the GSL for starters. Dead serious. Stephano is a superior macro player in general IMO but Innovation beat him using superior decision making and early game tactics. A lot of that has to do with a probable lack of preparation on Stephano's part which is normal considering that GSL is much different than any of the marathon foreigner events he's used to playing. I think given time to adjust more to the way GSL is played as well as some better scouting I think Stephano could take him in a long series. His game number 2 was about as one sided as a TvZ can possibly be which tells me that if Innovation doesn't manage to secure an early advantage somehow that Stephano will crush him with his superior late game. It's a normal dynamic between players of similar skill level. I think Stephano and Bogus' macro play are on a similar level. But the game gives the advantage to macro zergs over macro terrans right now. The terrans basically needs to stifle the zerg's eco before it gets out of hand. Did you see Bomber's games by chance? I mean in general there's definitely an advantage for Zergs in the later game if they aren't harassed or pressured that's obvious sure, but game 2 was more than just the Zerg late game advantage. Stephano beat Innovation in virtually every catergory. Superior macro, superior multitasking, superior army movement and scouting, superior compositions, unbelievable creep spread that was almost impossible to check. I mean yea Zerg has a nice late game advantage but I'd love to see Stephano try and trounce Bomber or Gumiho the way he slaughtered Innovation in game 2. Their late game play is far superior IMO. Bomber and Gumiho won a single bo3 against Sniper and now they're the TvZ messia... Lol why don't you stop with that? :D Bomber won quite a lot of TvZ recently, in good fashion. He really is the terran with the most chance to do well in this GSL TvZ wise if he doesn't choke like he did a lot of times in the past. Bomber's TvZ is really good. But I still think he is a huge underdog vs Life, DRG. And slight underdog to Symbol. And probably 50/50 vs Curious, LosirA.
Yeah but he is the best chance we have. With our 3x% winrate we don't have a lot anyways.
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On February 01 2013 22:03 SHODAN wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:55 AxionSteel wrote:On February 01 2013 21:54 SHODAN wrote:On February 01 2013 21:47 vthree wrote:On February 01 2013 21:44 SHODAN wrote:Artosis mentioned something about swarmy mass raxx style builds in Brood War. A few season ago, MVP went for a 5 rax into 7 rax build vs Parting. Bogus did the same thing - attack fast, upgrade steadily, expand slowly and trade well. Stephano GG Problem is that it is more of a surprise/gimmick build. All 3 races have ways to deal with it fairly easily if scouted. Terrans with bunkers into tanks. Protoss with sentries before getting colossi. Zerg with lots of lings and banes. It takes 7 banelings to kill 1 marauder with equal upgrades... Obviously you'd try and hit marines with them Lings to clean up the Marauders. I don't get why people are calling Bogus' build an all-in or gimmick. It's not standard, but it's a solid style. If his first attack hadn't of done enough damage, I could see him throwing down a late 3rd CC, late factory, armory, then hitting a third attack.
It's rather simple...because it relies on the opponent not scouting you for it to be successful...
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On February 01 2013 22:04 bittman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 22:01 Flinch wrote:On February 01 2013 21:54 Awesomeness wrote:On February 01 2013 21:52 sitromit wrote:
Is the "Stephano could win GSL" nonsense finally over now? Can we just call him the best foreigner and leave it at that? Can we do that AND stop the "Stephano is not code s level" nonsense? Now that would be great. Maybe if you tell me what he proved tonight that made him Code S level? 2-0ing Hack, a player who ISN'T Code S level? Going 1-4 against Innovation, being read like a book and demolished, a player who IS Code S level? IF Stephano makes it back to Code S then I'll consider him it, until then, no, he's just the best foreigner. We live in a strange world. Where not being of "Code S level" means you are in Code S. Truly, an age for the paradoxes.
HuK Code S level amirite?
Hack is bad, get over it. Stephano is 1-4 against good players in Code S.
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On February 01 2013 21:58 ShakkaFL wrote:
I hope now people stop hyping him
Then you have to hope people stop hyping Leenock.
Thought about that?? One second?
ONE GSL just says nothing about the capability of a player.....
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EPT
