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No balance whining, caster bashing, or player bashing in this thread. |
On February 01 2013 21:57 Zane wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:56 redFF wrote:On February 01 2013 21:53 Zane wrote:On February 01 2013 21:52 Laryleprakon wrote:On February 01 2013 21:51 FineAndDandy wrote:
Jinro still has the best foreign achievement in GSL? Yes. By a large margin. Eh not really. Jinro made 2 semi-finals. Naniwa made 2 quarter finals when the competition was much much harder. Stephano and HuK made ro32 when competition was much much harder than Naniwa's runs.
dat achievement going through the up and downs just to do non stop 8 gates
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I hope now people stop hyping him
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On February 01 2013 21:52 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:49 vthree wrote:On February 01 2013 21:46 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:43 decado90 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:42 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:40 derpface wrote:On February 01 2013 21:37 Weryeery wrote:
Terran hard race right? lol... just admit Bogus is more skilled than Stephano. They were a good match for each other. I dont want to jump to any conclusions about who's more skilled by just one series. Innovation made the Semis last season and beat a lot of top Zergs to get there. he's definitely quality. But Stephano stuck right there with him and in the same night also outclassed Hack. He's a top Zerg even if his haters don't want to admit it. He got put in a tough group and barely didnt make it out. No harm in that, better players than him have said the same thing. Code S is tough and Stephano just learned that firsthand. Are you serious dude? Bogus is so much better than Stephano. He actually has a chance to win the GSL for starters. Dead serious. Stephano is a superior macro player in general IMO but Innovation beat him using superior decision making and early game tactics. A lot of that has to do with a probable lack of preparation on Stephano's part which is normal considering that GSL is much different than any of the marathon foreigner events he's used to playing. I think given time to adjust more to the way GSL is played as well as some better scouting I think Stephano could take him in a long series. His game number 2 was about as one sided as a TvZ can possibly be which tells me that if Innovation doesn't manage to secure an early advantage somehow that Stephano will crush him with his superior late game. It's a normal dynamic between players of similar skill level. I think Stephano and Bogus' macro play are on a similar level. But the game gives the advantage to macro zergs over macro terrans right now. The terrans basically needs to stifle the zerg's eco before it gets out of hand. Did you see Bomber's games by chance? I mean in general there's definitely an advantage for Zergs in the later game if they aren't harassed or pressured that's obvious sure, but game 2 was more than just the Zerg late game advantage. Stephano beat Innovation in virtually every catergory. Superior macro, superior multitasking, superior army movement and scouting, superior compositions, unbelievable creep spread that was almost impossible to check. I mean yea Zerg has a nice late game advantage but I'd love to see Stephano try and trounce Bomber or Gumiho the way he slaughtered Innovation in game 2. Their late game play is far superior IMO.
Bomber and Gumiho won a single bo3 against Sniper and now they're the TvZ messia...
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On February 01 2013 21:47 AxionSteel wrote:
Wolf is better than Artosis imo. He's far less biased, when I listen to Artosis cast a ZvT, it's 80% about zerg, what they need to do to get the win etc. And as a solo caster, Wolf does an impeccable job.
Yeah I agree. Artosis was very vocal at the beginning of the game when zerg was up, he was very vocal during 1/1/1 TvP era, but when terran has it rough it almost seems like he trolls with "beautiful fungals".
I actually think Wolf is the best GSL caster but Artosis and Tasteless are just more popular because of their bro relationship.
Artosis-Wolf would be a good analytical and more objective cast I feel. Tasteless just complies to whatever Artosis is saying.
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On February 01 2013 21:56 redFF wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:53 Zane wrote:On February 01 2013 21:52 Laryleprakon wrote:On February 01 2013 21:51 FineAndDandy wrote:
Jinro still has the best foreign achievement in GSL? Yes. By a large margin. Eh not really. Jinro made 2 semi-finals. Naniwa made 2 quarter finals when the competition was much much harder.
The competition is much harder now and Stephano was able to come third in a group.
Best achievement in GSL.
Oh wait, that logic is silly. Jinro best achievement. Inca still has a better achivement than Bogus, even though Bogus is miles and away the better player. See how that works.
Achivement is independent of skill level. Don't diminish things arbitrarily.
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On February 01 2013 21:54 SHODAN wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:47 vthree wrote:On February 01 2013 21:44 SHODAN wrote:Artosis mentioned something about swarmy mass raxx style builds in Brood War. A few season ago, MVP went for a 5 rax into 7 rax build vs Parting. Bogus did the same thing - attack fast, upgrade steadily, expand slowly and trade well. Stephano  GG Problem is that it is more of a surprise/gimmick build. All 3 races have ways to deal with it fairly easily if scouted. Terrans with bunkers into tanks. Protoss with sentries before getting colossi. Zerg with lots of lings and banes. It takes 7 banelings to kill 1 marauder with equal upgrades...
Trust me, pro zergs can hold this off easily if scouted. Or you would see a lot more koreans doing it given the late game difficulties. Your banes are just to force them to split and your lings just surround them. Remember, they don't have medivacs with this type of push and lings just own bio if they aren't in a ball. And if they are, they just get owned by banes.
The reason it worked against Stephano was that he didn't know it was coming and he already took a lot of damage from the first wave. Wolf make the game sound even when it wasn't. I will tell you that if you ask a pro player which position they would have taken after those 17 drone kills. 99% would have taken Bogus'.
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Japan955 Posts
On February 01 2013 21:55 Garfailed wrote:
well, that was dissapointing.
I hope nobody overhypes stephano anymore. He is a good foreigner, but stop the ''He'll own everybody!'' mentality.
I don't really see much of that. I see a lot of defence against the "Stephano is a good foreigner, but he'll get owned in GSL", which people might interpret as "He'll own everybody". But then I guess it's just whatever glasses you see the world through really.
Sad to see Stephano out. Definitely showed that he can compete with the top of the world players, but then everyone already should've known that. On the plus side, the LR threads will be much less retarded from now on. Now if only MKP would get knocked out, they'd be totally clean of fanboyism 
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On February 01 2013 21:58 ShakkaFL wrote:
I hope now people stop hyping him
Why, does it bother you?
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On February 01 2013 21:58 Undead1993 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:57 Zane wrote:On February 01 2013 21:56 redFF wrote:On February 01 2013 21:53 Zane wrote:On February 01 2013 21:52 Laryleprakon wrote:On February 01 2013 21:51 FineAndDandy wrote:
Jinro still has the best foreign achievement in GSL? Yes. By a large margin. Eh not really. Jinro made 2 semi-finals. Naniwa made 2 quarter finals when the competition was much much harder. Stephano and HuK made ro32 when competition was much much harder than Naniwa's runs. dat achievement going through the up and downs just to do non stop 8 gates
Also, pretty sure Huk relied heavily on PvP and had some very fortunate draws
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On February 01 2013 21:57 Zane wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:56 redFF wrote:On February 01 2013 21:53 Zane wrote:On February 01 2013 21:52 Laryleprakon wrote:On February 01 2013 21:51 FineAndDandy wrote:
Jinro still has the best foreign achievement in GSL? Yes. By a large margin. Eh not really. Jinro made 2 semi-finals. Naniwa made 2 quarter finals when the competition was much much harder. Stephano and HuK made ro32 when competition was much much harder than Naniwa's runs.
stephano got seeded. And so did Huk,although huk atleast advanced from his up and down group. Stephano was seeded straight into ro32
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DRG now number 3 elo  First time ive seen him there in a while.
and will DRG get number 1 pick tomorrow because he has most points from 2012 out of all the players in Ro16 or are they doing it differently?
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On February 01 2013 21:58 ShakkaFL wrote:
I hope now people stop hyping him
hype the guy to the point of best foreigner (because he genuinely is) but yeah, no need to reach the silly levels of "will tear Code S up!"
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On February 01 2013 21:58 SiroKO wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:49 vthree wrote:On February 01 2013 21:46 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:43 decado90 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:42 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:40 derpface wrote:On February 01 2013 21:37 Weryeery wrote:
Terran hard race right? lol... just admit Bogus is more skilled than Stephano. They were a good match for each other. I dont want to jump to any conclusions about who's more skilled by just one series. Innovation made the Semis last season and beat a lot of top Zergs to get there. he's definitely quality. But Stephano stuck right there with him and in the same night also outclassed Hack. He's a top Zerg even if his haters don't want to admit it. He got put in a tough group and barely didnt make it out. No harm in that, better players than him have said the same thing. Code S is tough and Stephano just learned that firsthand. Are you serious dude? Bogus is so much better than Stephano. He actually has a chance to win the GSL for starters. Dead serious. Stephano is a superior macro player in general IMO but Innovation beat him using superior decision making and early game tactics. A lot of that has to do with a probable lack of preparation on Stephano's part which is normal considering that GSL is much different than any of the marathon foreigner events he's used to playing. I think given time to adjust more to the way GSL is played as well as some better scouting I think Stephano could take him in a long series. His game number 2 was about as one sided as a TvZ can possibly be which tells me that if Innovation doesn't manage to secure an early advantage somehow that Stephano will crush him with his superior late game. It's a normal dynamic between players of similar skill level. I think Stephano and Bogus' macro play are on a similar level. But the game gives the advantage to macro zergs over macro terrans right now. The terrans basically needs to stifle the zerg's eco before it gets out of hand. Did you see Bomber's games by chance? I mean in general there's definitely an advantage for Zergs in the later game if they aren't harassed or pressured that's obvious sure, but game 2 was more than just the Zerg late game advantage. Stephano beat Innovation in virtually every catergory. Superior macro, superior multitasking, superior army movement and scouting, superior compositions, unbelievable creep spread that was almost impossible to check. I mean yea Zerg has a nice late game advantage but I'd love to see Stephano try and trounce Bomber or Gumiho the way he slaughtered Innovation in game 2. Their late game play is far superior IMO. Bomber and Gumiho won a single bo3 against Sniper and now they're the TvZ messia...
that's how it works. It even doesn't depend on the Zerg making crucial mistakes or playing extremely sloppily (like Sniper did). One match win against a notable Zerg makes you the new TvZ bonjwa, if you have the right fanbase.
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Expected results, no upsets.
Don't know why everyone has hyped Stephano so much. He did ok for his first GSL run. A bit more practice and experience in GSL will get him through next time.
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France12758 Posts
On February 01 2013 21:58 SiroKO wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:49 vthree wrote:On February 01 2013 21:46 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:43 decado90 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:42 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:40 derpface wrote:On February 01 2013 21:37 Weryeery wrote:
Terran hard race right? lol... just admit Bogus is more skilled than Stephano. They were a good match for each other. I dont want to jump to any conclusions about who's more skilled by just one series. Innovation made the Semis last season and beat a lot of top Zergs to get there. he's definitely quality. But Stephano stuck right there with him and in the same night also outclassed Hack. He's a top Zerg even if his haters don't want to admit it. He got put in a tough group and barely didnt make it out. No harm in that, better players than him have said the same thing. Code S is tough and Stephano just learned that firsthand. Are you serious dude? Bogus is so much better than Stephano. He actually has a chance to win the GSL for starters. Dead serious. Stephano is a superior macro player in general IMO but Innovation beat him using superior decision making and early game tactics. A lot of that has to do with a probable lack of preparation on Stephano's part which is normal considering that GSL is much different than any of the marathon foreigner events he's used to playing. I think given time to adjust more to the way GSL is played as well as some better scouting I think Stephano could take him in a long series. His game number 2 was about as one sided as a TvZ can possibly be which tells me that if Innovation doesn't manage to secure an early advantage somehow that Stephano will crush him with his superior late game. It's a normal dynamic between players of similar skill level. I think Stephano and Bogus' macro play are on a similar level. But the game gives the advantage to macro zergs over macro terrans right now. The terrans basically needs to stifle the zerg's eco before it gets out of hand. Did you see Bomber's games by chance? I mean in general there's definitely an advantage for Zergs in the later game if they aren't harassed or pressured that's obvious sure, but game 2 was more than just the Zerg late game advantage. Stephano beat Innovation in virtually every catergory. Superior macro, superior multitasking, superior army movement and scouting, superior compositions, unbelievable creep spread that was almost impossible to check. I mean yea Zerg has a nice late game advantage but I'd love to see Stephano try and trounce Bomber or Gumiho the way he slaughtered Innovation in game 2. Their late game play is far superior IMO. Bomber and Gumiho won a single bo3 against Sniper and now they're the TvZ messia...
Lol why don't you stop with that? :D
Bomber won quite a lot of TvZ recently, in good fashion. He really is the terran with the most chance to do well in this GSL TvZ wise if he doesn't choke like he did a lot of times in the past.
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On February 01 2013 21:58 ShakkaFL wrote:
I hope now people stop hyping him
Sorry, I'll stop hyping Hack.
Lol j/k. Hack uses fucking nukes vs lategame zerg and mech vs protoss. Not gonna stop rooting for that guy! Come at me!
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Hmm what kinda bothers me lately when watching Starcraft is that whenever someone uses a flank or a surround, he is considered a genius.
Why is it that after millenia of human warfare and now after years of pro-gaming in Starcraft, this still seems to be something extraordinary in this game? It's one of the simplest tactical moves (although a devastating one), and all historical battles basically revolved around avoiding to get flanked, yet flank yourself. This should also be standard in Starcraft, but all I see are people who clump up their units into a ball and walk straight onto an open field without any cover at all, just to get overwhelmed by a simple flank.
If this kind of army movement just hasn't caught on yet in Starcraft (since WoL is still somewhat young) I wouldn't care, but it highly annoys me that casters, analysts and all sorts of other people, who call themselves experts in strategy games, act like flanking a completely undefended army was a stroke of genius and something they have never seen before or never would have thought of themselves.
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On February 01 2013 21:59 Psychobabas wrote:Why, does it bother you?
It puts too much pressure on Stephano himself.
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On February 01 2013 21:54 Awesomeness wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:52 sitromit wrote:
Is the "Stephano could win GSL" nonsense finally over now? Can we just call him the best foreigner and leave it at that? Can we do that AND stop the "Stephano is not code s level" nonsense? Now that would be great.
Maybe if you tell me what he proved tonight that made him Code S level?
2-0ing Hack, a player who ISN'T Code S level?
Going 1-4 against Innovation, being read like a book and demolished, a player who IS Code S level?
IF Stephano makes it back to Code S then I'll consider him it, until then, no, he's just the best foreigner.
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On February 01 2013 21:58 SiroKO wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:49 vthree wrote:On February 01 2013 21:46 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:43 decado90 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:42 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 01 2013 21:40 derpface wrote:On February 01 2013 21:37 Weryeery wrote:
Terran hard race right? lol... just admit Bogus is more skilled than Stephano. They were a good match for each other. I dont want to jump to any conclusions about who's more skilled by just one series. Innovation made the Semis last season and beat a lot of top Zergs to get there. he's definitely quality. But Stephano stuck right there with him and in the same night also outclassed Hack. He's a top Zerg even if his haters don't want to admit it. He got put in a tough group and barely didnt make it out. No harm in that, better players than him have said the same thing. Code S is tough and Stephano just learned that firsthand. Are you serious dude? Bogus is so much better than Stephano. He actually has a chance to win the GSL for starters. Dead serious. Stephano is a superior macro player in general IMO but Innovation beat him using superior decision making and early game tactics. A lot of that has to do with a probable lack of preparation on Stephano's part which is normal considering that GSL is much different than any of the marathon foreigner events he's used to playing. I think given time to adjust more to the way GSL is played as well as some better scouting I think Stephano could take him in a long series. His game number 2 was about as one sided as a TvZ can possibly be which tells me that if Innovation doesn't manage to secure an early advantage somehow that Stephano will crush him with his superior late game. It's a normal dynamic between players of similar skill level. I think Stephano and Bogus' macro play are on a similar level. But the game gives the advantage to macro zergs over macro terrans right now. The terrans basically needs to stifle the zerg's eco before it gets out of hand. Did you see Bomber's games by chance? I mean in general there's definitely an advantage for Zergs in the later game if they aren't harassed or pressured that's obvious sure, but game 2 was more than just the Zerg late game advantage. Stephano beat Innovation in virtually every catergory. Superior macro, superior multitasking, superior army movement and scouting, superior compositions, unbelievable creep spread that was almost impossible to check. I mean yea Zerg has a nice late game advantage but I'd love to see Stephano try and trounce Bomber or Gumiho the way he slaughtered Innovation in game 2. Their late game play is far superior IMO. Bomber and Gumiho won a single bo3 against Sniper and now they're the TvZ messia...
Agreed. Bomber is actually 4-6 vZ in Korea in his last 10... GumiHo is 6-4 with 3 wins vs Sniper...
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