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On December 30 2012 15:25 AndAgain wrote:
I'm guessing Stork isn't very confident in PvT. Otherwise why would he do something so risky.
Stork wasn't afraid to throw in proxy 2 gate zealots in BW PvT once in a while (vs Hwasin on Paranoid Android being the memorable time). He was known for being especially good at PvT.
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United States6335 Posts
Poll: Recommend Set 4?Yes! (7) 54% No. (3) 23% If you have time... (3) 23% 13 total votes Your vote: Recommend Set 4? (Vote): Yes!
(Vote): No.
(Vote): If you have time...
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Nice, 3-1 favor Khan.
CJ has some pretty good tail-end players though.
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On December 30 2012 15:56 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 15:54 sc2superfan101 wrote:On December 30 2012 15:52 Dosey wrote:On December 30 2012 15:50 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On December 30 2012 15:41 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:37 BretZ wrote:On December 30 2012 15:36 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:34 GhostKorean wrote:On December 30 2012 15:32 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:30 aznkukuboi wrote:
[quote]
Bogus/Innovations is top GM. Soulkey is said to be one. what about guys like stork/jangbi/fantasy? Im just curious if these guys are actually representative of the best players in korea or if they are playing based on Kespa connections (obviously they have huge potential, but it kinda surprises me that they are in the lineups already if they arent GM in korea or something) Kespa pros didn't ladder much in bw I obviously know this  I just am wondering how good these guys are because some of the games I watch look like my ladder games and there have to be players in korea better than this. How is ladder rank indicative of skill?.. ??????? it isn't but if you played the game at all you would imagine things like skyhigh making a critical composition mistake and this last game wouldn't happen. Its not indicative of the best players obviously but it would be indicative of a general/minimum level. Now that I realize it is basically KESPA only teams this makes sense. I'm still curious as to the skill level of the lowest players. The worst pros in BW who were only practice partners were still godly and would rape face vs just about anyone when you ran into them on iccup/pgt etc. They only looked bad by comparison to the top players. Some of these guys make mistakes that make you wonder how good they really are. Put it this way: GSL 2013 season 1 Code S Kespa players: Bogus, Soulkey, Roro, Baby Up and Down players: Flying, Trap. Flash, Jaedong, Fantasy, Bbyong, sOs I don't understand what you're trying to say...? I think he's saying that that is pretty good representation at the GSL level (highest esf). so obviously some Kespa guys are really competitive with the best GSL players. which means they are, in general, competitive as a whole against esf players, skill wise. That logic is so flawed. Yes, the top Kespa players can compete with the top eSF players. But right now, the 30th eSF player is much better than the 30th Kespa player.
you're sure of that?
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Yaaay Khan fans emerging from out of the woodwork :3
Would be REALLY nice if it doesn't get to an ace match though, because Effort...wait...I traded him off my anti for Soulkey...who already won today...never mind ;___;
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C'mon Khan! You gotta close it out now!
Oh shit, gonna have to get through Effort and herO uhh...
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Khan do ittt make EG TL 4th and become relevant again
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51497 Posts
Roro, the modern day Jaedong =[
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On December 30 2012 16:11 Aerisky wrote:
Yaaay Khan fans emerging from out of the woodwork :3
Hey, there's always a place in my heart for the old guard  , especially when they're down in 8th place.
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On December 30 2012 16:11 Aerisky wrote:
Yaaay Khan fans emerging from out of the woodwork :3
Would be REALLY nice if it doesn't get to an ace match though, because Effort...wait...I traded him off my anti for Soulkey...who already won today...never mind ;___;
Well, its gonna be rough now, both effort and hero is really good, so the chances of ace feels high
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On December 30 2012 16:11 Vanadium wrote:
C'mon Khan! You gotta close it out now!
Oh shit, gonna have to get through Effort and herO uhh...
Not only is it Effort... it's Effort v Z
Be afraid.
Be very afraid.
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On December 30 2012 16:11 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 15:56 vthree wrote:On December 30 2012 15:54 sc2superfan101 wrote:On December 30 2012 15:52 Dosey wrote:On December 30 2012 15:50 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On December 30 2012 15:41 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:37 BretZ wrote:On December 30 2012 15:36 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:34 GhostKorean wrote:On December 30 2012 15:32 Sadist wrote:
[quote]
what about guys like stork/jangbi/fantasy?
Im just curious if these guys are actually representative of the best players in korea or if they are playing based on Kespa connections (obviously they have huge potential, but it kinda surprises me that they are in the lineups already if they arent GM in korea or something) Kespa pros didn't ladder much in bw I obviously know this I just am wondering how good these guys are because some of the games I watch look like my ladder games and there have to be players in korea better than this. How is ladder rank indicative of skill?.. ??????? it isn't but if you played the game at all you would imagine things like skyhigh making a critical composition mistake and this last game wouldn't happen. Its not indicative of the best players obviously but it would be indicative of a general/minimum level. Now that I realize it is basically KESPA only teams this makes sense. I'm still curious as to the skill level of the lowest players. The worst pros in BW who were only practice partners were still godly and would rape face vs just about anyone when you ran into them on iccup/pgt etc. They only looked bad by comparison to the top players. Some of these guys make mistakes that make you wonder how good they really are. Put it this way: GSL 2013 season 1 Code S Kespa players: Bogus, Soulkey, Roro, Baby Up and Down players: Flying, Trap. Flash, Jaedong, Fantasy, Bbyong, sOs I don't understand what you're trying to say...? I think he's saying that that is pretty good representation at the GSL level (highest esf). so obviously some Kespa guys are really competitive with the best GSL players. which means they are, in general, competitive as a whole against esf players, skill wise. That logic is so flawed. Yes, the top Kespa players can compete with the top eSF players. But right now, the 30th eSF player is much better than the 30th Kespa player. you're sure of that?
probably, considering there's at least 30 ESF players currently in code a/s and some other really good ones like Tear in code b.
It's hard to say because not that many kespa players have broken into gsl yet.
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There is some semblance of hope for the Z mirror but I'm pretty sure Reality has no chance against herO. Though Effort v Z is incredible so I dunno
If it goes to ace, CJ definitely has the upper hand though. We'd probably have to send out Roro, but ehh.
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On December 30 2012 16:11 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 15:56 vthree wrote:On December 30 2012 15:54 sc2superfan101 wrote:On December 30 2012 15:52 Dosey wrote:On December 30 2012 15:50 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On December 30 2012 15:41 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:37 BretZ wrote:On December 30 2012 15:36 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:34 GhostKorean wrote:On December 30 2012 15:32 Sadist wrote:
[quote]
what about guys like stork/jangbi/fantasy?
Im just curious if these guys are actually representative of the best players in korea or if they are playing based on Kespa connections (obviously they have huge potential, but it kinda surprises me that they are in the lineups already if they arent GM in korea or something) Kespa pros didn't ladder much in bw I obviously know this I just am wondering how good these guys are because some of the games I watch look like my ladder games and there have to be players in korea better than this. How is ladder rank indicative of skill?.. ??????? it isn't but if you played the game at all you would imagine things like skyhigh making a critical composition mistake and this last game wouldn't happen. Its not indicative of the best players obviously but it would be indicative of a general/minimum level. Now that I realize it is basically KESPA only teams this makes sense. I'm still curious as to the skill level of the lowest players. The worst pros in BW who were only practice partners were still godly and would rape face vs just about anyone when you ran into them on iccup/pgt etc. They only looked bad by comparison to the top players. Some of these guys make mistakes that make you wonder how good they really are. Put it this way: GSL 2013 season 1 Code S Kespa players: Bogus, Soulkey, Roro, Baby Up and Down players: Flying, Trap. Flash, Jaedong, Fantasy, Bbyong, sOs I don't understand what you're trying to say...? I think he's saying that that is pretty good representation at the GSL level (highest esf). so obviously some Kespa guys are really competitive with the best GSL players. which means they are, in general, competitive as a whole against esf players, skill wise. That logic is so flawed. Yes, the top Kespa players can compete with the top eSF players. But right now, the 30th eSF player is much better than the 30th Kespa player. you're sure of that?
Yes, if you look at results. There are 50 players in code S/Up and Downs. With 11 Kespa players and 30+ eSF players. Can the Kespa player take games off the eSF player? Sure. But so can the 30th rank foreigner. But overall, I would say the 30th eSF is the overall better player.
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On December 30 2012 16:13 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 16:11 sc2superfan101 wrote:On December 30 2012 15:56 vthree wrote:On December 30 2012 15:54 sc2superfan101 wrote:On December 30 2012 15:52 Dosey wrote:On December 30 2012 15:50 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On December 30 2012 15:41 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:37 BretZ wrote:On December 30 2012 15:36 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:34 GhostKorean wrote:
[quote]
Kespa pros didn't ladder much in bw I obviously know this I just am wondering how good these guys are because some of the games I watch look like my ladder games and there have to be players in korea better than this. How is ladder rank indicative of skill?.. ??????? it isn't but if you played the game at all you would imagine things like skyhigh making a critical composition mistake and this last game wouldn't happen. Its not indicative of the best players obviously but it would be indicative of a general/minimum level. Now that I realize it is basically KESPA only teams this makes sense. I'm still curious as to the skill level of the lowest players. The worst pros in BW who were only practice partners were still godly and would rape face vs just about anyone when you ran into them on iccup/pgt etc. They only looked bad by comparison to the top players. Some of these guys make mistakes that make you wonder how good they really are. Put it this way: GSL 2013 season 1 Code S Kespa players: Bogus, Soulkey, Roro, Baby Up and Down players: Flying, Trap. Flash, Jaedong, Fantasy, Bbyong, sOs I don't understand what you're trying to say...? I think he's saying that that is pretty good representation at the GSL level (highest esf). so obviously some Kespa guys are really competitive with the best GSL players. which means they are, in general, competitive as a whole against esf players, skill wise. That logic is so flawed. Yes, the top Kespa players can compete with the top eSF players. But right now, the 30th eSF player is much better than the 30th Kespa player. you're sure of that? probably, considering there's at least 30 ESF players currently in code a/s and some other really good ones like Tear in code b. It's hard to say because not that many kespa players have broken into gsl yet.
I would love to see how guys like Dear and Action perform in GSL. I feel like Action is A LOT better than people think.
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On December 30 2012 16:14 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 16:11 sc2superfan101 wrote:On December 30 2012 15:56 vthree wrote:On December 30 2012 15:54 sc2superfan101 wrote:On December 30 2012 15:52 Dosey wrote:On December 30 2012 15:50 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On December 30 2012 15:41 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:37 BretZ wrote:On December 30 2012 15:36 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:34 GhostKorean wrote:
[quote]
Kespa pros didn't ladder much in bw I obviously know this I just am wondering how good these guys are because some of the games I watch look like my ladder games and there have to be players in korea better than this. How is ladder rank indicative of skill?.. ??????? it isn't but if you played the game at all you would imagine things like skyhigh making a critical composition mistake and this last game wouldn't happen. Its not indicative of the best players obviously but it would be indicative of a general/minimum level. Now that I realize it is basically KESPA only teams this makes sense. I'm still curious as to the skill level of the lowest players. The worst pros in BW who were only practice partners were still godly and would rape face vs just about anyone when you ran into them on iccup/pgt etc. They only looked bad by comparison to the top players. Some of these guys make mistakes that make you wonder how good they really are. Put it this way: GSL 2013 season 1 Code S Kespa players: Bogus, Soulkey, Roro, Baby Up and Down players: Flying, Trap. Flash, Jaedong, Fantasy, Bbyong, sOs I don't understand what you're trying to say...? I think he's saying that that is pretty good representation at the GSL level (highest esf). so obviously some Kespa guys are really competitive with the best GSL players. which means they are, in general, competitive as a whole against esf players, skill wise. That logic is so flawed. Yes, the top Kespa players can compete with the top eSF players. But right now, the 30th eSF player is much better than the 30th Kespa player. you're sure of that? Yes, if you look at results. There are 50 players in code S/Up and Downs. With 11 Kespa players and 30+ eSF players. Can the Kespa player take games off the eSF player? Sure. But so can the 30th rank foreigner. But overall, I would say the 30th eSF is the overall better player.
"Taking games off" isn't indicative of anything. Combatex took a game off Parting in a Bo3. It's a poor standard to judge things by.
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Why is that girl so cute
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On December 30 2012 16:01 Taipoka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 15:59 Dosey wrote:On December 30 2012 15:54 Taipoka wrote:On December 30 2012 15:48 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:43 HanFuzi wrote:
The fact that we're used to ladder makes skill seem more static than it actually is.
The relative skill of pros varies even day to day, based on many things. thats obvious. But im curious as to why some of these guys are playing in televised matches if they arent very good. Im all for giving them a chance to get better and keeping them on the roster to work their way up to the team, but some of these guys I would bet you could grab people from bnet who would be more likely to get a win for your team. Maybe they all are really good and just look bad comparatively, thats why I was asking what the skill level of some of the players was because I have no point of reference. As I said, when I would play a progamer in BW, it was pretty obvious you were playing a pro just by the way they played, you could feel it because they were able to dictate the game and reacted much faster than most non korean players did. I haven't played any korean pros in SC2 (not that im very good at this game anyway) but I was wondering if it was kinda the same thing. The whole Kespa vs Esf thing makes me curious about the skill level of the average kespa player vs a guy who is on an esf team. Seems like the kespa guys can get by on reputation and potential so just because they are on a pro team doesnt mean they are very good. I would expect the opposite for esf teams since you basically had to earn your way on since the teams have been around for quite a while now. Think this way. Good kespa players are on par with good esf players. Bad kespa players are on par with bad esf players. I think whats confusing you is that bad kespa players need to play in this format, while esf focus more on individual leagues. And team play is all-kill format. I dunno man... I feel like a lineup of YongHwa, Yoda, First, Losira, Happy would pretty much destroy any KeSPA team. And that's not even playing their three champions. And ST could probably just play their ZeNEX lineup and still smash face. It doesnt change my point :D I dont see a bad player in this ST lineup :D
then you're smoking something. Life is the only zenex player to really show consistent good form-suhosin beat GS(TL) and did some damage to NSHoseo and then nothing. Hack isn't bad, but doesn't seem to have enough oomph to get any better than solid. Brain and Treme could be getting pretty good, but still haven't seen any good performances in tournaments. If Startale was going to be a strong force in PL, They would need to play Bomber/Parting/Squirtle/Life/Curious/Hack lineup and occasionally exchange either parting, hack, or life to play a sniper (which would most likely be where suhosin would come in (or, less probable, one of the lesser zenex players). In PL format, I would bet that T8 could take on startale pretty evenly~
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On December 30 2012 16:14 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 16:11 sc2superfan101 wrote:On December 30 2012 15:56 vthree wrote:On December 30 2012 15:54 sc2superfan101 wrote:On December 30 2012 15:52 Dosey wrote:On December 30 2012 15:50 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On December 30 2012 15:41 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:37 BretZ wrote:On December 30 2012 15:36 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:34 GhostKorean wrote:
[quote]
Kespa pros didn't ladder much in bw I obviously know this I just am wondering how good these guys are because some of the games I watch look like my ladder games and there have to be players in korea better than this. How is ladder rank indicative of skill?.. ??????? it isn't but if you played the game at all you would imagine things like skyhigh making a critical composition mistake and this last game wouldn't happen. Its not indicative of the best players obviously but it would be indicative of a general/minimum level. Now that I realize it is basically KESPA only teams this makes sense. I'm still curious as to the skill level of the lowest players. The worst pros in BW who were only practice partners were still godly and would rape face vs just about anyone when you ran into them on iccup/pgt etc. They only looked bad by comparison to the top players. Some of these guys make mistakes that make you wonder how good they really are. Put it this way: GSL 2013 season 1 Code S Kespa players: Bogus, Soulkey, Roro, Baby Up and Down players: Flying, Trap. Flash, Jaedong, Fantasy, Bbyong, sOs I don't understand what you're trying to say...? I think he's saying that that is pretty good representation at the GSL level (highest esf). so obviously some Kespa guys are really competitive with the best GSL players. which means they are, in general, competitive as a whole against esf players, skill wise. That logic is so flawed. Yes, the top Kespa players can compete with the top eSF players. But right now, the 30th eSF player is much better than the 30th Kespa player. you're sure of that? Yes, if you look at results. There are 50 players in code S/Up and Downs. With 11 Kespa players and 30+ eSF players. Can the Kespa player take games off the eSF player? Sure. But so can the 30th rank foreigner. But overall, I would say the 30th eSF is the overall better player.
but much better?
I would say that they are better, but not much better. which means that my point stands that Kespa pros are competitive.
and also, your logic is also flawed. less Kespa players have even attempted to get into GSL, and further, they have had less time to establish themselves in GSL. that doesn't mean their skill is any less.
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