|
On December 30 2012 15:54 Taipoka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 15:48 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:43 HanFuzi wrote:
The fact that we're used to ladder makes skill seem more static than it actually is.
The relative skill of pros varies even day to day, based on many things. thats obvious. But im curious as to why some of these guys are playing in televised matches if they arent very good. Im all for giving them a chance to get better and keeping them on the roster to work their way up to the team, but some of these guys I would bet you could grab people from bnet who would be more likely to get a win for your team. Maybe they all are really good and just look bad comparatively, thats why I was asking what the skill level of some of the players was because I have no point of reference. As I said, when I would play a progamer in BW, it was pretty obvious you were playing a pro just by the way they played, you could feel it because they were able to dictate the game and reacted much faster than most non korean players did. I haven't played any korean pros in SC2 (not that im very good at this game anyway) but I was wondering if it was kinda the same thing. The whole Kespa vs Esf thing makes me curious about the skill level of the average kespa player vs a guy who is on an esf team. Seems like the kespa guys can get by on reputation and potential so just because they are on a pro team doesnt mean they are very good. I would expect the opposite for esf teams since you basically had to earn your way on since the teams have been around for quite a while now. Think this way. Good kespa players are on par with good esf players. Bad kespa players are on par with bad esf players. I think whats confusing you is that bad kespa players need to play in this format, while esf focus more on individual leagues. And team play is all-kill format.
I dunno man... I feel like a lineup of YongHwa, Yoda, First, Losira, Happy would pretty much destroy any KeSPA team. And that's not even playing their three champions.
And ST could probably just play their ZeNEX lineup and still smash face.
|
On December 30 2012 15:59 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 15:54 Taipoka wrote:On December 30 2012 15:48 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:43 HanFuzi wrote:
The fact that we're used to ladder makes skill seem more static than it actually is.
The relative skill of pros varies even day to day, based on many things. thats obvious. But im curious as to why some of these guys are playing in televised matches if they arent very good. Im all for giving them a chance to get better and keeping them on the roster to work their way up to the team, but some of these guys I would bet you could grab people from bnet who would be more likely to get a win for your team. Maybe they all are really good and just look bad comparatively, thats why I was asking what the skill level of some of the players was because I have no point of reference. As I said, when I would play a progamer in BW, it was pretty obvious you were playing a pro just by the way they played, you could feel it because they were able to dictate the game and reacted much faster than most non korean players did. I haven't played any korean pros in SC2 (not that im very good at this game anyway) but I was wondering if it was kinda the same thing. The whole Kespa vs Esf thing makes me curious about the skill level of the average kespa player vs a guy who is on an esf team. Seems like the kespa guys can get by on reputation and potential so just because they are on a pro team doesnt mean they are very good. I would expect the opposite for esf teams since you basically had to earn your way on since the teams have been around for quite a while now. Think this way. Good kespa players are on par with good esf players. Bad kespa players are on par with bad esf players. I think whats confusing you is that bad kespa players need to play in this format, while esf focus more on individual leagues. And team play is all-kill format. I dunno man... I feel like a lineup of YongHwa, Yoda, First, Losira, Happy would pretty much destroy any KeSPA team. And that's not even playing their three champions. And ST could probably just play their ZeNEX lineup and still smash face.
Unfortunately IM lineup sucks in GSTL
|
On December 30 2012 15:56 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 15:54 sc2superfan101 wrote:On December 30 2012 15:52 Dosey wrote:On December 30 2012 15:50 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On December 30 2012 15:41 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:37 BretZ wrote:On December 30 2012 15:36 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:34 GhostKorean wrote:On December 30 2012 15:32 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:30 aznkukuboi wrote:
[quote]
Bogus/Innovations is top GM. Soulkey is said to be one. what about guys like stork/jangbi/fantasy? Im just curious if these guys are actually representative of the best players in korea or if they are playing based on Kespa connections (obviously they have huge potential, but it kinda surprises me that they are in the lineups already if they arent GM in korea or something) Kespa pros didn't ladder much in bw I obviously know this  I just am wondering how good these guys are because some of the games I watch look like my ladder games and there have to be players in korea better than this. How is ladder rank indicative of skill?.. ??????? it isn't but if you played the game at all you would imagine things like skyhigh making a critical composition mistake and this last game wouldn't happen. Its not indicative of the best players obviously but it would be indicative of a general/minimum level. Now that I realize it is basically KESPA only teams this makes sense. I'm still curious as to the skill level of the lowest players. The worst pros in BW who were only practice partners were still godly and would rape face vs just about anyone when you ran into them on iccup/pgt etc. They only looked bad by comparison to the top players. Some of these guys make mistakes that make you wonder how good they really are. Put it this way: GSL 2013 season 1 Code S Kespa players: Bogus, Soulkey, Roro, Baby Up and Down players: Flying, Trap. Flash, Jaedong, Fantasy, Bbyong, sOs I don't understand what you're trying to say...? I think he's saying that that is pretty good representation at the GSL level (highest esf). so obviously some Kespa guys are really competitive with the best GSL players. which means they are, in general, competitive as a whole against esf players, skill wise. That logic is so flawed. Yes, the top Kespa players can compete with the top eSF players. But right now, the 30th eSF player is much better than the 30th Kespa player.
OK this makes sense. This is basically how I assumed it was but I wasn't sure. I know guys like Rain are doing great so the top kespa guys can compete with the top esf guys. I was just curious about the bottom tier since you dont really see these guys playing against esf players.
|
On December 30 2012 15:59 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 15:54 Taipoka wrote:On December 30 2012 15:48 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:43 HanFuzi wrote:
The fact that we're used to ladder makes skill seem more static than it actually is.
The relative skill of pros varies even day to day, based on many things. thats obvious. But im curious as to why some of these guys are playing in televised matches if they arent very good. Im all for giving them a chance to get better and keeping them on the roster to work their way up to the team, but some of these guys I would bet you could grab people from bnet who would be more likely to get a win for your team. Maybe they all are really good and just look bad comparatively, thats why I was asking what the skill level of some of the players was because I have no point of reference. As I said, when I would play a progamer in BW, it was pretty obvious you were playing a pro just by the way they played, you could feel it because they were able to dictate the game and reacted much faster than most non korean players did. I haven't played any korean pros in SC2 (not that im very good at this game anyway) but I was wondering if it was kinda the same thing. The whole Kespa vs Esf thing makes me curious about the skill level of the average kespa player vs a guy who is on an esf team. Seems like the kespa guys can get by on reputation and potential so just because they are on a pro team doesnt mean they are very good. I would expect the opposite for esf teams since you basically had to earn your way on since the teams have been around for quite a while now. Think this way. Good kespa players are on par with good esf players. Bad kespa players are on par with bad esf players. I think whats confusing you is that bad kespa players need to play in this format, while esf focus more on individual leagues. And team play is all-kill format. I dunno man... I feel like a lineup of YongHwa, Yoda, First, Losira, Happy would pretty much destroy any KeSPA team. And that's not even playing their three champions. And ST could probably just play their ZeNEX lineup and still smash face.
It doesnt change my point :D
I dont see a bad player in this ST lineup :D
|
herO[join] seems to be as cheerful a guy as TaeJa. Always smiling. <3
|
On December 30 2012 15:56 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 15:54 sc2superfan101 wrote:On December 30 2012 15:52 Dosey wrote:On December 30 2012 15:50 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On December 30 2012 15:41 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:37 BretZ wrote:On December 30 2012 15:36 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:34 GhostKorean wrote:On December 30 2012 15:32 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:30 aznkukuboi wrote:
[quote]
Bogus/Innovations is top GM. Soulkey is said to be one. what about guys like stork/jangbi/fantasy? Im just curious if these guys are actually representative of the best players in korea or if they are playing based on Kespa connections (obviously they have huge potential, but it kinda surprises me that they are in the lineups already if they arent GM in korea or something) Kespa pros didn't ladder much in bw I obviously know this I just am wondering how good these guys are because some of the games I watch look like my ladder games and there have to be players in korea better than this. How is ladder rank indicative of skill?.. ??????? it isn't but if you played the game at all you would imagine things like skyhigh making a critical composition mistake and this last game wouldn't happen. Its not indicative of the best players obviously but it would be indicative of a general/minimum level. Now that I realize it is basically KESPA only teams this makes sense. I'm still curious as to the skill level of the lowest players. The worst pros in BW who were only practice partners were still godly and would rape face vs just about anyone when you ran into them on iccup/pgt etc. They only looked bad by comparison to the top players. Some of these guys make mistakes that make you wonder how good they really are. Put it this way: GSL 2013 season 1 Code S Kespa players: Bogus, Soulkey, Roro, Baby Up and Down players: Flying, Trap. Flash, Jaedong, Fantasy, Bbyong, sOs I don't understand what you're trying to say...? I think he's saying that that is pretty good representation at the GSL level (highest esf). so obviously some Kespa guys are really competitive with the best GSL players. which means they are, in general, competitive as a whole against esf players, skill wise. That logic is so flawed. Yes, the top Kespa players can compete with the top eSF players. But right now, the 30th eSF player is much better than the 30th Kespa player.
Yeah, I have to say that this is pretty fallacious. The reason why I say so is that Flash, JD, Fantasy can all compete at the highest level, but once you get to about 3 people down on the list, like Action, EffOrt, etc. they aren't code S level, maybe not even code A. They aren't even that far down on the list. The 30th best player for KeSPA is not as good as the 30th best player for eSF. IMO, once you get past maybe the top 15 or so, it really drops off. With time we might see a difference, but for right now I don't think we can argue that they are the same.
|
On December 30 2012 15:57 nmetasch wrote:
Ok, I really don't like the caster that doesn't speak English as well... Hes always such a dick to the other caster, totally publicly too. It's almost unacceptable, I would have some choice words for him after the cast -_-
He's a good guy, he's not being "rude" on purpose. But I'm not too fond of him thus far. I like Whiplash though
|
On December 30 2012 15:59 Thinasy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 15:59 Dosey wrote:On December 30 2012 15:54 Taipoka wrote:On December 30 2012 15:48 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:43 HanFuzi wrote:
The fact that we're used to ladder makes skill seem more static than it actually is.
The relative skill of pros varies even day to day, based on many things. thats obvious. But im curious as to why some of these guys are playing in televised matches if they arent very good. Im all for giving them a chance to get better and keeping them on the roster to work their way up to the team, but some of these guys I would bet you could grab people from bnet who would be more likely to get a win for your team. Maybe they all are really good and just look bad comparatively, thats why I was asking what the skill level of some of the players was because I have no point of reference. As I said, when I would play a progamer in BW, it was pretty obvious you were playing a pro just by the way they played, you could feel it because they were able to dictate the game and reacted much faster than most non korean players did. I haven't played any korean pros in SC2 (not that im very good at this game anyway) but I was wondering if it was kinda the same thing. The whole Kespa vs Esf thing makes me curious about the skill level of the average kespa player vs a guy who is on an esf team. Seems like the kespa guys can get by on reputation and potential so just because they are on a pro team doesnt mean they are very good. I would expect the opposite for esf teams since you basically had to earn your way on since the teams have been around for quite a while now. Think this way. Good kespa players are on par with good esf players. Bad kespa players are on par with bad esf players. I think whats confusing you is that bad kespa players need to play in this format, while esf focus more on individual leagues. And team play is all-kill format. I dunno man... I feel like a lineup of YongHwa, Yoda, First, Losira, Happy would pretty much destroy any KeSPA team. And that's not even playing their three champions. And ST could probably just play their ZeNEX lineup and still smash face. Unfortunately IM lineup sucks in GSTL
But I think IM's line up actually does better in PL format. A lot of their loses are from players getting 4 kills or AK.
|
On December 30 2012 15:56 Hier wrote:
So why did Shine shave his head?
you shave your head when you decide to commit to some goals or give something a fresh start. Thats some kind of Asian ways, at least in countries influenced by buddhism
|
On December 30 2012 16:01 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 15:56 vthree wrote:On December 30 2012 15:54 sc2superfan101 wrote:On December 30 2012 15:52 Dosey wrote:On December 30 2012 15:50 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On December 30 2012 15:41 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:37 BretZ wrote:On December 30 2012 15:36 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:34 GhostKorean wrote:On December 30 2012 15:32 Sadist wrote:
[quote]
what about guys like stork/jangbi/fantasy?
Im just curious if these guys are actually representative of the best players in korea or if they are playing based on Kespa connections (obviously they have huge potential, but it kinda surprises me that they are in the lineups already if they arent GM in korea or something) Kespa pros didn't ladder much in bw I obviously know this I just am wondering how good these guys are because some of the games I watch look like my ladder games and there have to be players in korea better than this. How is ladder rank indicative of skill?.. ??????? it isn't but if you played the game at all you would imagine things like skyhigh making a critical composition mistake and this last game wouldn't happen. Its not indicative of the best players obviously but it would be indicative of a general/minimum level. Now that I realize it is basically KESPA only teams this makes sense. I'm still curious as to the skill level of the lowest players. The worst pros in BW who were only practice partners were still godly and would rape face vs just about anyone when you ran into them on iccup/pgt etc. They only looked bad by comparison to the top players. Some of these guys make mistakes that make you wonder how good they really are. Put it this way: GSL 2013 season 1 Code S Kespa players: Bogus, Soulkey, Roro, Baby Up and Down players: Flying, Trap. Flash, Jaedong, Fantasy, Bbyong, sOs I don't understand what you're trying to say...? I think he's saying that that is pretty good representation at the GSL level (highest esf). so obviously some Kespa guys are really competitive with the best GSL players. which means they are, in general, competitive as a whole against esf players, skill wise. That logic is so flawed. Yes, the top Kespa players can compete with the top eSF players. But right now, the 30th eSF player is much better than the 30th Kespa player. Yeah, I have to say that this is pretty fallacious. The reason why I say so is that Flash, JD, Fantasy can all compete at the highest level, but once you get to about 3 people down on the list, like Action, EffOrt, etc. they aren't code S level, maybe not even code A. They aren't even that far down on the list. The 30th best player for KeSPA is not as good as the 30th best player for eSF. IMO, once you get past maybe the top 15 or so, it really drops off. With time we might see a difference, but for right now I don't think we can argue that they are the same.
I wouldn't even say those three are Consistent Code S level. JD would get smashed by any protoss with soul. Flash isn't as invincible as people make him out to be and neither is Fanta.
|
On December 30 2012 16:01 Taipoka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 15:59 Dosey wrote:On December 30 2012 15:54 Taipoka wrote:On December 30 2012 15:48 Sadist wrote:On December 30 2012 15:43 HanFuzi wrote:
The fact that we're used to ladder makes skill seem more static than it actually is.
The relative skill of pros varies even day to day, based on many things. thats obvious. But im curious as to why some of these guys are playing in televised matches if they arent very good. Im all for giving them a chance to get better and keeping them on the roster to work their way up to the team, but some of these guys I would bet you could grab people from bnet who would be more likely to get a win for your team. Maybe they all are really good and just look bad comparatively, thats why I was asking what the skill level of some of the players was because I have no point of reference. As I said, when I would play a progamer in BW, it was pretty obvious you were playing a pro just by the way they played, you could feel it because they were able to dictate the game and reacted much faster than most non korean players did. I haven't played any korean pros in SC2 (not that im very good at this game anyway) but I was wondering if it was kinda the same thing. The whole Kespa vs Esf thing makes me curious about the skill level of the average kespa player vs a guy who is on an esf team. Seems like the kespa guys can get by on reputation and potential so just because they are on a pro team doesnt mean they are very good. I would expect the opposite for esf teams since you basically had to earn your way on since the teams have been around for quite a while now. Think this way. Good kespa players are on par with good esf players. Bad kespa players are on par with bad esf players. I think whats confusing you is that bad kespa players need to play in this format, while esf focus more on individual leagues. And team play is all-kill format. I dunno man... I feel like a lineup of YongHwa, Yoda, First, Losira, Happy would pretty much destroy any KeSPA team. And that's not even playing their three champions. And ST could probably just play their ZeNEX lineup and still smash face. It doesnt change my point :D I dont see a bad player in this ST lineup :D
Well, it is because you are defining the player already with good and bad.
It is like saying a good Korean is on par with a good foreigner and a bad Korean is on par with a bad foreigner. Which is true as well. But you just have a lot more 'good' Koreans compare to 'good' foreigners.
The only way to compare would be to see how the 20th, 30th, 40th, 50th players from both sides stack up against each other. Right now, you have to give the advantage to eSF. But I think when HoTS comes out, we will see that gap close a lot more.
|
Rome wasn't built in a single day, and neither was the Kespa advantage over foreigners.
By this time next year, we'll see who is on top.
|
gooooooooooooooooooooo
rooooooooooooooo
roooooooooooooooooooooooooo
he's got this, and now he can win the ace match if the other khan members fail to deliver. poor roro has been carrying his team so far this round.
|
|
|
Yaaay Roro.
PL beast as always, just ripping through Songduri's drone counts. Guaranteed at least ace match now!
|
ohh fuck lol i was watching the whole game thinking songduri was yellow T_T
|
On December 30 2012 16:01 Proseat wrote:
herO[join] seems to be as cheerful a guy as TaeJa. Always smiling. <3
I know, right? :D It's so nice to see.
|
RORORORORO, bring it home Khan!
|
On December 30 2012 16:01 Arceus wrote:you shave your head when you decide to commit to some goals or give something a fresh start. Thats some kind of Asian ways, at least in countries influenced by buddhism
My first thought was a name related bald joke. He should go full Khaldor.
|
How come so many Korean players have such bad skin? Seems like almost everyone in the booth today has bad acne or pockmarks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
