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United Kingdom14464 Posts
On December 24 2012 06:35 gwixter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 06:32 MCDayC wrote:On December 24 2012 06:30 Godwrath wrote:On December 24 2012 06:29 Popkiller wrote:
this has to just be a meta thing. what was it that made zergs not do this in the beginning? You need MMM to stop that push. Stephano beat MMA and MKP using the same comp (not necessarily the same timing) at HSC. and GanZi at LSC ... all on Ohana iirc and some other korean terrans on ladder when he was in Korea in summer hmm I don't remember him losing with this strategy actually :D
He beat MKP on Cloud Kingdom with it as well, MKP's response was to mass medivacs, and all the casters were saying it would be the counter to this comp, heavy medivacs, but stephano just focused down the medivacs and took engagements t to get the win.
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stephano is just better
whish he would practice more and accomplish himself as the real bonjua!
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Austria24417 Posts
Lol, who's observing this?
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On December 24 2012 06:37 decado90 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 06:33 rasnj wrote:On December 24 2012 06:30 littlebigs wrote:
I can't help but to see this as another zerg beating a terran. At least the usage of Hydra's makes it kinda cool. You do realize how stupid that makes you right? Stephano plays a completely different style, and beats one of the best players in the world. He didn't abuse infestors or brood lords, so why would this be anything like what other zergs are doing? I personally I'm not a big fan of how stephano presents himself and his mentality, but you can't help but admire his play at least. There is nothing ordinary about that. Mvp is not "one of the best players in the world" anymore. He's fallen all the way down to 26th in tlpd and would be the underdog against quite a few foreign Zergs.
Afaik, he is the only terran that won gsl in 2012 and only terran who got to the finals of gsl in 2012.
This is a better indicator than being rated high on tlpd. He doesn't participate in that many tournaments as some other terrans like Taeja so even if he was in top form of 2011 he probably wouldn't be highest ranked terran.
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On December 24 2012 06:37 decado90 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 06:33 rasnj wrote:On December 24 2012 06:30 littlebigs wrote:
I can't help but to see this as another zerg beating a terran. At least the usage of Hydra's makes it kinda cool. You do realize how stupid that makes you right? Stephano plays a completely different style, and beats one of the best players in the world. He didn't abuse infestors or brood lords, so why would this be anything like what other zergs are doing? I personally I'm not a big fan of how stephano presents himself and his mentality, but you can't help but admire his play at least. There is nothing ordinary about that. Mvp is not "one of the best players in the world" anymore. He's fallen all the way down to 26th in tlpd and would be the underdog against quite a few foreign Zergs.
TLPD doesn't accurately reflect a players skill at all. Even in his injured state, MVP is probably top 15 in the world, and I wouldn't call him the underdog in any match where he has time to prepare. I think if MVP didn't have his injuries, he would still be far and away the best player in the world.
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On December 24 2012 06:37 littlebigs wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 06:33 rasnj wrote:On December 24 2012 06:30 littlebigs wrote:
I can't help but to see this as another zerg beating a terran. At least the usage of Hydra's makes it kinda cool. You do realize how stupid that makes you right? Stephano plays a completely different style, and beats one of the best players in the world. He didn't abuse infestors or brood lords, so why would this be anything like what other zergs are doing? I personally I'm not a big fan of how stephano presents himself and his mentality, but you can't help but admire his play at least. There is nothing ordinary about that. Yes I'm an idiot because there were so many things MVP could have done to stop that
I didn't say it was unstoppable. I said it makes you stupid to see it as just another zerg beating a terran which implies that it was just a generic zerg thing that stephano did. If you removed names from the game, then you could rule out the vast majority of zergs so it isn't just another zerg.
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What do hydras actually add to the composition against ground mech that more roaches wouldn't?
The way that looked, it feels like the same thing would have worked with straight roaches.
I guess you could deal with the banshee or something but I don't think the banshee was doing damage fast enough to make much of a difference anyways
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On December 24 2012 06:35 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 06:31 MCDayC wrote:On December 24 2012 06:29 Popkiller wrote:
this has to just be a meta thing. what was it that made zergs not do this in the beginning? Its kinda map dependent, and it takes advantage of the queen buff so there is more creep spread. On top of that, with the recent infestor nerfs (and blizz says more are coming) zergs are looking at other ways to take advantage of better defense/creep coverage instead of spines infestors and brood lords, so hydras are coming into fashion. I wonder if it'll stick. How did Queen buff have anything to do with this game? Stephano had a pretty early Roach Warren and didn't build a lot of Queens anyway. People have to stop blaming everything on the Queen buff.
hellions weren't able to scout or do any harassment (including deny creep - plus the extra queen for creep spread ment terran had NO map control).
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On December 24 2012 06:38 MCDayC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 06:35 gwixter wrote:On December 24 2012 06:32 MCDayC wrote:On December 24 2012 06:30 Godwrath wrote:On December 24 2012 06:29 Popkiller wrote:
this has to just be a meta thing. what was it that made zergs not do this in the beginning? You need MMM to stop that push. Stephano beat MMA and MKP using the same comp (not necessarily the same timing) at HSC. and GanZi at LSC ... all on Ohana iirc and some other korean terrans on ladder when he was in Korea in summer hmm I don't remember him losing with this strategy actually :D He beat MKP on Cloud Kingdom with it as well, MKP's response was to mass medivacs, and all the casters were saying it would be the counter to this comp, heavy medivacs, but stephano just focused down the medivacs and took engagements t to get the win.
MKP took a lot of small engagements though, which killed him because roach hydra are better in smaller numbers.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/k7sco.jpg)
This is from 1.5 years ago. I don't know why Life stopped using Roach/Hydra, you'd have to ask him.
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On December 24 2012 06:38 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 06:35 Qwerty85 wrote:On December 24 2012 06:33 KingOfNoodles wrote:On December 24 2012 06:29 Popkiller wrote:
this has to just be a meta thing. what was it that made zergs not do this in the beginning? I think its if Terran starts earlier production of seige tanks (not getting starport/banshees), they will have more than enough splash to kill both roaches and hydras. Not sure if that would work but even if it did, going straight to tanks is bad in any other situation, you wouldn't have any map control - no helions, no banshees, no way to stop fast 3rd base or pressure zerg at all. This is indeed the problem. Terran has to choose: 1) Deny creep? Hellion banshee --> weak to roach timings 2) Play safe with siegetanks --> creepspread will kill you Blizzard needs to fix that imo (creep).
Oh don't worry, blizzard is fixing it on HotS. Now protoss also got a ultrabuffed queen so tosses can freely be greedy or surprise you with shit tons all ins.
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On December 24 2012 06:40 dangthatsright wrote:
What do hydras actually add to the composition against ground mech that more roaches wouldn't?
The way that looked, it feels like the same thing would have worked with straight roaches.
I guess you could deal with the banshee or something but I don't think the banshee was doing damage fast enough to make much of a difference anyways
Better DPS (way better) and range, easier to focus fire shit like tanks.
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On December 24 2012 06:39 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Lol, who's observing this?
Read the OP plz 
(Funka)
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On December 24 2012 06:40 dangthatsright wrote:
What do hydras actually add to the composition against ground mech that more roaches wouldn't?
The way that looked, it feels like the same thing would have worked with straight roaches.
I guess you could deal with the banshee or something but I don't think the banshee was doing damage fast enough to make much of a difference anyways
Hydras don't take the Siege Tanks bonus damage against armored.
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Austria24417 Posts
On December 24 2012 06:42 IronSquid wrote:Read the OP plz (Funka)
Sorry
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On December 24 2012 06:37 Bagration wrote:
Wait, so Stephano beat MVP, MMA and MKP? There should be a special type of achievement for that. The triple letter Terran triad down!
Unfortunately MVP, MMA and MKP are pretty much a triad of failure at the moment. They have fallen from there former grace pretty, pretty hard. The same goes for the likes of Nestea and MC. The terrans have at least the excuse of having a shit race right now. MC and especially Nestea not so much.
EDIT: Second game. LOL. Just what I said in the last post..Simple roaches rushes kill most of the former top terrans right now.
Although this was a pretty comitted one and MVP defended it considerably well.
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On December 24 2012 06:39 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 06:37 decado90 wrote:On December 24 2012 06:33 rasnj wrote:On December 24 2012 06:30 littlebigs wrote:
I can't help but to see this as another zerg beating a terran. At least the usage of Hydra's makes it kinda cool. You do realize how stupid that makes you right? Stephano plays a completely different style, and beats one of the best players in the world. He didn't abuse infestors or brood lords, so why would this be anything like what other zergs are doing? I personally I'm not a big fan of how stephano presents himself and his mentality, but you can't help but admire his play at least. There is nothing ordinary about that. Mvp is not "one of the best players in the world" anymore. He's fallen all the way down to 26th in tlpd and would be the underdog against quite a few foreign Zergs. Afaik, he is the only terran that won gsl in 2012 and only terran who got to the finals of gsl in 2012. This is a better indicator than being rated high on tlpd. He doesn't participate in that many tournaments as some other terrans like Taeja so even if he was in top form of 2011 he probably wouldn't be highest ranked terran.
Mvp actually still has the highest peak elo in SC2 history. Back when he was far and away the best player and the closest thing SC2 has had to a Bonjwa. He has falled quite far since his injury. He won a GSL, yea, but he looked ugly doing it.
If you actually watch his games you'll see his mechanics aren't up to par and his gameplay has suffered. He was dominated in the Blizzard Cup as well.
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EPT
