On May 25 2012 22:15 FuzzyJAM wrote: I do love it when people act as though the game must balanced if there's even racial distribution in Code S.
The idea that there must be identical numbers of equally skilled players in all three races is kind of funny.
Well, compared to this season where 15/32 were Terrans (that's 1 away from half!), it's nice to have a season where it's not so Terran dominated. Players will need to be well rounded in their matchups to advance.
While it is true, that terrans occupy third of code S spots, they are also race that has lost most spots in this season. I wouldn't actually be surprised, judging from tvp and tvz trends after latest patches, that if current state of game will continue, terrans will be the least represented race in code S after season or 2.
have been the most represented race for 2 years in the GSL (often times by a huge margin). If has to suffer through a few seasons of least representation for Blizz to balance patch, then so be it. The future is looking a lot brighter than the past (in terms of Code S race representation).
If you believe that no race should be op (as you imply terrans was in 1st part of your post) then you should be against protoss or zerg being op even for "few" seasons if possible. If you're OK with someone being op (as your 2 part suggest) then why would you think terran domination was a bad thing to begin with? What you can't do is have your cake and eat it too.
Here's what I'm getting at.
1. Balanced racial representation is good for the game. 2. GSL has better racial representation now then ever in its history.
Then you posed a hypothesis that Terrans will be least represented race in 1 or 2 seasons. My 2nd argument is.
1. A few seasons of least representation is not that bad. Some race has to be least represented (barring ties), and if it's only a few months, then nothing to whine about. 2. 2 years of most representation (by large margins) is bad. 3. Therefore we are better off now than before.
Your in favour of laws that requires boards to have a distrubution of xx% of either sex? Even if that means leaving out someone really qualified? Perfect racial distrubution in the GSL shouldn't be the goal for someone who is balancing the game. The best players should get through(not saying Ace didn't deserve to get to Code S).
On May 25 2012 22:00 Plexa wrote: When will terrans start massing starports BEFORE the protoss has 6 colossus ._.
MarineKing had 3 reactor Starports before Ace had a Robo Bay.
Hmm I stand corrected. With that said, trying to attack into a protoss with 6 colossus without vikings is really dumb
He was maxed out, he didnt have any choice but to attack into it.
That's a bad excuse, sac SCVs, sac medivacs (he had 123123), sac some army.. no reason to suicide
Why it's always Terran, that has to do something perfectly vs Protoss (have just the right amount of vikings, right amount of ghost, right amount of medivacs etc.) or die, never the reverse.
Factually incorrect.
One missed forcefield for Protoss = GG against Terran in countless cases.
Protoss has to play equally perfectly, but early to mid game. Terran is absurdly forgiving earlier on whereas Protoss is more forgiving lategame.
On May 25 2012 22:12 summerloud wrote: terrans dominate GSL ever since it started
we finally get an even race distribution
much terran QQ ensues...
srsly wtf?
If you people could actually look past your noses and see past even race distribution you'd understand why.
THE POINT OF THIS GAME IS NOT TO HAVE EVEN RACIAL DISTRIBUTION. IT'S TO HAVE THE BETTER PLAYERS WIN.
There's a counter-argument founded on the exact point you're trying to make. Specifically:
Players do not HAVE to play any particular race. If the races were balanced you would expect even player distribution across races and even race distribution. When they're not balanced players gravitate towards the strongest races, especially when money is on the line. Terran was OP earlier in the Starcraft 2 cycle meaning many pros gravitated towards it and that allowed them to do better than their actual skill. Now that things are more balanced it's evening up again.
Note: I'm not saying whether or not I agree with that argument. My point is you cannot simply dismiss evidence, you have to add it all together for the overall picture. Statistically the PvT matchup is balanced based on the regularly monthly data about high-level progames posted up on these very forums. Factually Terrans are the most represented and always have been the most represented at the highest levels (Code S) and there are far more medals and championships for Terran than Protoss and Zerg combined.
So trying to argue that your complaints are justified is not backed up by any of the data or facts. Not to mention it's hard to feel pity for people crying about their race being underpowered when a player from said race just won Code S for the fourth time whilst suffering from a wrist injury. Thats not exactly a numerically significant example of course (because it's just one player), but theres a huge amount of irony there.
Your arguments actually works in favor of his position, if more pro players flocked to terran in early starcraft life, because they where op back then, it would mean more pro players play terran now, which in turn, would mean that if starcraft were perfectly balanced, one should expect to have more top level terrans then protoss or zergs. And there is a danger, when trying to achieve artificial balance (equal number of t/p/z in code S), when there is disproportional distribution of talent among races, of overnerfing and overbaffing by trying to compensate, we don't need such affirmative action in starcraft, let the best win.
On May 25 2012 22:12 summerloud wrote: terrans dominate GSL ever since it started
we finally get an even race distribution
much terran QQ ensues...
srsly wtf?
If you people could actually look past your noses and see past even race distribution you'd understand why.
THE POINT OF THIS GAME IS NOT TO HAVE EVEN RACIAL DISTRIBUTION. IT'S TO HAVE THE BETTER PLAYERS WIN.
So in your professional, caps lock opinion, how do we justify what players are the best if we don't have all of them playing on an equal playing field (i.e. racial balance)?
Obviously, if more of the best players are playing Terran, that's a problem for the state of the game. It's a problem because there's a reason top players are flocking to that race. It has the highest skill ceiling. Why can't the other races have higher skill ceilings, allowing top players to consider playing as Zerg or Protoss as they enter in to SC2?
You've assumed that the players who play as Terran automatically deserve to win because they're supposedly better or because they've picked the historically best race (according to the statistics). But as the game has become more and more balanced, we should expect the racial distribution to even out more.
Terran in SC2 has the most skilled players and the highest number of skilled players because Terran in BW had the most skilled players develop during its lifetime, who then transferred over. This in combination with newer players picking terrans due to old BW terran idols like Boxer and Nada (marineking who played Protoss in BW for instance) influence it further. This in combination with terran having the highest skill cap allows for the already better players to improve at a more rapid pace compared to the zergs/protosses.
A lot of the process is random. If MKP, MVP and Nestea were all playing protoss that race would have the most wins and best progress. There are few enough people at the very top that individuals make big differences in statistics, and most of the good players happen to be terran. With this in mind, seeing Blizzard and the community constantly affect terran negatively, either by nerfs or map changes, instead of allowing for zergs and protosses to become better with practice just warps the game balance around to the point where you'll see balanced racial distributions when the better players are competing against bad odds. How do I know who's a good player and who isn't? I've watched this game since the beginning, as have most people, and it's easy to form conclusions about players and what calibre they are, and most of the good players so far have been terran.
As far as protoss/zerg skill cap goes. I hope Blizzard will raise their skill cap to allow for better players to shine, but they don't. They're dumbing down terran to the same level at the moment, and it's hurting the game.
On May 25 2012 22:41 Lightspeaker wrote:
There's a counter-argument founded on the exact point you're trying to make. Specifically:
Players do not HAVE to play any particular race. If the races were balanced you would expect even player distribution across races and even race distribution. When they're not balanced players gravitate towards the strongest races, especially when money is on the line. Terran was OP earlier in the Starcraft 2 cycle meaning many pros gravitated towards it and that allowed them to do better than their actual skill. Now that things are more balanced it's evening up again.
Note: I'm not saying whether or not I agree with that argument. My point is you cannot simply dismiss evidence, you have to add it all together for the overall picture. Statistically the PvT matchup is balanced based on the regularly monthly data about high-level progames posted up on these very forums. Factually Terrans are the most represented and always have been the most represented at the highest levels (Code S) and there are far more medals and championships for Terran than Protoss and Zerg combined.
So trying to argue that your complaints are justified is not backed up by any of the data or facts. Not to mention it's hard to feel pity for people crying about their race being underpowered when a player from said race just won Code S for the fourth time whilst suffering from a wrist injury. Thats not exactly a numerically significant example of course (because it's just one player), but theres a huge amount of irony there.
If all races were balanced in the start there should theoretically be even racial distribution (more on that later), but that's not considering the history of the individual subject, i.e Starcraft 2, which is combined with Brood Wars strategy. In the absolute beginning of SC2s history when no one knew anything about the game there were still twice as many terrans as the other races. That alone should show that there are other factors other than racial balance in the equation. And if racial distribution is your indicator of racial balance, you should check nowhere else except for sc2ranks where terran in all leagues past silver in all regions is the lowest statistically demanding.
Other than that, I don't understand why you see irony and balance whining anywhere. I'd be glad if terran was the least represented race as long as the game was actually being balanced properly, but as it is, it's not. Terran as a whole is being punished for them having the better players. I don't care about people feeling pity about me/terrans/something?. I want to make an argument and try to explain it to people so they can understand it from a new point of view that goes further than statistics that blizzard manipulates to look good.
Alright, DarkPlasmaBall point of view looks pretty clear to me, if you don't understand it it means you're completely retarded.
Or that you're wrong Considering the quality of your posts I'm happy that you don't agree with me as it means that I might be onto something right.
On May 25 2012 22:15 FuzzyJAM wrote: I do love it when people act as though the game must balanced if there's even racial distribution in Code S.
The idea that there must be identical numbers of equally skilled players in all three races is kind of funny.
Well, compared to this season where 15/32 were Terrans (that's 1 away from half!), it's nice to have a season where it's not so Terran dominated. Players will need to be well rounded in their matchups to advance.
While it is true, that terrans occupy third of code S spots, they are also race that has lost most spots in this season. I wouldn't actually be surprised, judging from tvp and tvz trends after latest patches, that if current state of game will continue, terrans will be the least represented race in code S after season or 2.
have been the most represented race for 2 years in the GSL (often times by a huge margin). If has to suffer through a few seasons of least representation for Blizz to balance patch, then so be it. The future is looking a lot brighter than the past (in terms of Code S race representation).
If you believe that no race should be op (as you imply terrans was in 1st part of your post) then you should be against protoss or zerg being op even for "few" seasons if possible. If you're OK with someone being op (as your 2 part suggest) then why would you think terran domination was a bad thing to begin with? What you can't do is have your cake and eat it too.
Here's what I'm getting at.
1. Balanced racial representation is good for the game. 2. GSL has better racial representation now then ever in its history.
Then you posed a hypothesis that Terrans will be least represented race in 1 or 2 seasons. My 2nd argument is.
1. A few seasons of least representation is not that bad. Some race has to be least represented (barring ties), and if it's only a few months, then nothing to whine about. 2. 2 years of most representation (by large margins) is bad. 3. Therefore we are better off now than before.
Your in favour of laws that requires boards to have a distrubution of xx% of either sex? Even if that means leaving out someone really qualified? Perfect racial distrubution in the GSL shouldn't be the goal for someone who is balancing the game. The best players should get through(not saying Ace didn't deserve to get to Code S).
This, pretty much. People are so hung up on statistical equivalents that they stop to consider the individual players. It's pretty much the same as drafting and equal number of women and men into every business because it looks good statistically, while pissing on their individual achievements.
On May 25 2012 22:42 canikizu wrote: Now let's move away from code S and complain how code A is overcrowded with Terran.
To be fair, it's overcrowded by terrans because it was overcrowded by P and Zs for the first 2 seasons and they all advanced to code S while the terrans stayed in code A :D
On May 25 2012 22:29 ladyumbra wrote: Team breakdown for code s : IM 4 (5 if you count mc) Startale 4 (5 if you count nani) Prime 4 Mvp 4 Liquid 2 Fxo 2 Complexity 1 TSL 1 Zenex 1 Slayers 2 Fnatic 1 Teamless 2 : (
The most amazing thing is that IM has more championships than anyother team has players in Code S!
If you count MC also, IM has more championships than there are teams in Code S!
There is simply no way to nerf IM as a team although Losira seriously needs to get himself back into code S. I do like that while MVP and Nestea are the only code S title holders that it's Seed, Happy and the others who tend to hold down the fort during team leagues showing the overall strength of the team.
On May 25 2012 22:29 ladyumbra wrote: Team breakdown for code s : IM 4 (5 if you count mc) Startale 4 (5 if you count nani) Prime 4 Mvp 4 Liquid 2 Fxo 2 Complexity 1 TSL 1 Zenex 1 Slayers 2 Fnatic 1 Teamless 2 : (
The most amazing thing is that IM has more championships than anyother team has players in Code S!
If you count MC also, IM has more championships than there are teams in Code S!
There is simply no way to nerf IM as a team although Losira seriously needs to get himself back into code S. I do like that while MVP and Nestea are the only code S title holders that it's Seed, Happy and the others who tend to hold down the fort during team leagues showing the overall strength of the team.
Also Yonghwa needs to qualify for code a. I mean .... this guy has the level to win code s
Didnt get to watch the games! But MKP yay! Can anyone summarise how well his play was today (broad judgement, not game by game?)? Was his play still looking in tip top shape as he has been recently?? Thanks!
On May 25 2012 23:03 IceSlipper wrote: Didnt get to watch the games! But MKP yay! Can anyone summarise how well his play was today (broad judgement, not game by game?)? Was his play still looking in tip top shape as he has been recently?? Thanks!
On May 25 2012 23:03 IceSlipper wrote: Didnt get to watch the games! But MKP yay! Can anyone summarise how well his play was today (broad judgement, not game by game?)? Was his play still looking in tip top shape as he has been recently?? Thanks!
Yes, MKP looked like the best player overall today... though Ace did look quite awesome in the last two games.
Best games are any of the three matches between MKP, Ace, and BBoong where all players showed some really good skill in winning and losing.
On May 25 2012 22:12 summerloud wrote: terrans dominate GSL ever since it started
we finally get an even race distribution
much terran QQ ensues...
srsly wtf?
If you people could actually look past your noses and see past even race distribution you'd understand why.
THE POINT OF THIS GAME IS NOT TO HAVE EVEN RACIAL DISTRIBUTION. IT'S TO HAVE THE BETTER PLAYERS WIN.
So in your professional, caps lock opinion, how do we justify what players are the best if we don't have all of them playing on an equal playing field (i.e. racial balance)?
Obviously, if more of the best players are playing Terran, that's a problem for the state of the game. It's a problem because there's a reason top players are flocking to that race. It has the highest skill ceiling. Why can't the other races have higher skill ceilings, allowing top players to consider playing as Zerg or Protoss as they enter in to SC2?
You've assumed that the players who play as Terran automatically deserve to win because they're supposedly better or because they've picked the historically best race (according to the statistics). But as the game has become more and more balanced, we should expect the racial distribution to even out more.
Terran in SC2 has the most skilled players and the highest number of skilled players because Terran in BW had the most skilled players develop during its lifetime, who then transferred over. This in combination with newer players picking terrans due to old BW terran idols like Boxer and Nada (marineking who played Protoss in BW for instance) influence it further. This in combination with terran having the highest skill cap allows for the already better players to improve at a more rapid pace compared to the zergs/protosses.
A lot of the process is random. If MKP, MVP and Nestea were all playing protoss that race would have the most wins and best progress. There are few enough people at the very top that individuals make big differences in statistics, and most of the good players happen to be terran. With this in mind, seeing Blizzard and the community constantly affect terran negatively, either by nerfs or map changes, instead of allowing for zergs and protosses to become better with practice just warps the game balance around to the point where you'll see balanced racial distributions when the better players are competing against bad odds. How do I know who's a good player and who isn't? I've watched this game since the beginning, as have most people, and it's easy to form conclusions about players and what calibre they are, and most of the good players so far have been terran.
As far as protoss/zerg skill cap goes. I hope Blizzard will raise their skill cap to allow for better players to shine, but they don't. They're dumbing down terran to the same level at the moment, and it's hurting the game.
On May 25 2012 22:41 Lightspeaker wrote:
There's a counter-argument founded on the exact point you're trying to make. Specifically:
Players do not HAVE to play any particular race. If the races were balanced you would expect even player distribution across races and even race distribution. When they're not balanced players gravitate towards the strongest races, especially when money is on the line. Terran was OP earlier in the Starcraft 2 cycle meaning many pros gravitated towards it and that allowed them to do better than their actual skill. Now that things are more balanced it's evening up again.
Note: I'm not saying whether or not I agree with that argument. My point is you cannot simply dismiss evidence, you have to add it all together for the overall picture. Statistically the PvT matchup is balanced based on the regularly monthly data about high-level progames posted up on these very forums. Factually Terrans are the most represented and always have been the most represented at the highest levels (Code S) and there are far more medals and championships for Terran than Protoss and Zerg combined.
So trying to argue that your complaints are justified is not backed up by any of the data or facts. Not to mention it's hard to feel pity for people crying about their race being underpowered when a player from said race just won Code S for the fourth time whilst suffering from a wrist injury. Thats not exactly a numerically significant example of course (because it's just one player), but theres a huge amount of irony there.
If all races were balanced in the start there should theoretically be even racial distribution (more on that later), but that's not considering the history of the individual subject, i.e Starcraft 2, which is combined with Brood Wars strategy. In the absolute beginning of SC2s history when no one knew anything about the game there were still twice as many terrans as the other races. That alone should show that there are other factors other than racial balance in the equation. And if racial distribution is your indicator of racial balance, you should check nowhere else except for sc2ranks where terran in all leagues past silver in all regions is the lowest statistically demanding.
Other than that, I don't understand why you see irony and balance whining anywhere. I'd be glad if terran was the least represented race as long as the game was actually being balanced properly, but as it is, it's not. Terran as a whole is being punished for them having the better players. I don't care about people feeling pity about me/terrans/something?. I want to make an argument and try to explain it to people so they can understand it from a new point of view that goes further than statistics that blizzard manipulates to look good.
Alright, DarkPlasmaBall point of view looks pretty clear to me, if you don't understand it it means you're completely retarded.
Or that you're wrong Considering the quality of your posts I'm happy that you don't agree with me as it means that I might be onto something right.
On May 25 2012 22:15 FuzzyJAM wrote: I do love it when people act as though the game must balanced if there's even racial distribution in Code S.
The idea that there must be identical numbers of equally skilled players in all three races is kind of funny.
Well, compared to this season where 15/32 were Terrans (that's 1 away from half!), it's nice to have a season where it's not so Terran dominated. Players will need to be well rounded in their matchups to advance.
While it is true, that terrans occupy third of code S spots, they are also race that has lost most spots in this season. I wouldn't actually be surprised, judging from tvp and tvz trends after latest patches, that if current state of game will continue, terrans will be the least represented race in code S after season or 2.
have been the most represented race for 2 years in the GSL (often times by a huge margin). If has to suffer through a few seasons of least representation for Blizz to balance patch, then so be it. The future is looking a lot brighter than the past (in terms of Code S race representation).
If you believe that no race should be op (as you imply terrans was in 1st part of your post) then you should be against protoss or zerg being op even for "few" seasons if possible. If you're OK with someone being op (as your 2 part suggest) then why would you think terran domination was a bad thing to begin with? What you can't do is have your cake and eat it too.
Here's what I'm getting at.
1. Balanced racial representation is good for the game. 2. GSL has better racial representation now then ever in its history.
Then you posed a hypothesis that Terrans will be least represented race in 1 or 2 seasons. My 2nd argument is.
1. A few seasons of least representation is not that bad. Some race has to be least represented (barring ties), and if it's only a few months, then nothing to whine about. 2. 2 years of most representation (by large margins) is bad. 3. Therefore we are better off now than before.
Your in favour of laws that requires boards to have a distrubution of xx% of either sex? Even if that means leaving out someone really qualified? Perfect racial distrubution in the GSL shouldn't be the goal for someone who is balancing the game. The best players should get through(not saying Ace didn't deserve to get to Code S).
This, pretty much. People are so hung up on statistical equivalents that they stop to consider the individual players. It's pretty much the same as drafting and equal number of women and men into every business because it looks good statistically, while pissing on their individual achievements.
Well I don't care what you think about the quality of my posts as well as you seems not to care about what I am thinking. But still this applies : + Show Spoiler +
On May 25 2012 22:31 TeeTS wrote: Hey Terran's aren't alowed to complain about balance! MVP won code s guys! That Squirtle just started playing when he was 0-3 down has to be put aside here, because MVP WON CODE S, so everything in this matchup is fine, isn't it?
Funny thing people don't realize is that GSL finals can't tell shit about balance because players are under so much pressure that often who will win mindgames/deal better with the pressure will end up winning. That's why Squirtle got trashed at first 3-0 despite being (imo) better than Mvp in the match-up.
I'm sad that BB didn't get through but if AcE can play good in code S too it would be cool, ST protosses don't fail to deliver.
Don't you realize you're in a thread about GSL ?? Do your balance whine in another thread if you think GSL can't tell shit about balance. Don't u realize there are more terrans than protoss in both code S and code A ?? Don't you realize how better the terrans' results were ?? Don't you realize protoss are in no way OP in GSL ? So then why do you whine about protoss in A GSL THREAD ?? Don't you realize how annoying it is ? Don't you realize how indecent it is ? Don't you realize why you could (and should) be banned for this ??
I mean I don't even want to have a debate about balance, I am complaining about those terrans who always balance whine IN GSL THREADS, where terrans are actually dominating. I wouldn't have any problem if you were talking about yourself playing on the ladder, but you should then do it in the appropriate threads. But here you are doing that in a GSL thread man, you can be banned for it and there is a reason. And moreover it is indecent as terrans win more in GSL. At least you should be able to understand that.
On May 25 2012 23:03 IceSlipper wrote: Didnt get to watch the games! But MKP yay! Can anyone summarise how well his play was today (broad judgement, not game by game?)? Was his play still looking in tip top shape as he has been recently?? Thanks!
Yes, MKP looked like the best player overall today... though Ace did look quite awesome in the last two games.
Best games are any of the three matches between MKP, Ace, and BBoong where all players showed some really good skill in winning and losing.
On May 25 2012 23:03 IceSlipper wrote: Didnt get to watch the games! But MKP yay! Can anyone summarise how well his play was today (broad judgement, not game by game?)? Was his play still looking in tip top shape as he has been recently?? Thanks!
On May 25 2012 22:12 summerloud wrote: terrans dominate GSL ever since it started
we finally get an even race distribution
much terran QQ ensues...
srsly wtf?
If you people could actually look past your noses and see past even race distribution you'd understand why.
THE POINT OF THIS GAME IS NOT TO HAVE EVEN RACIAL DISTRIBUTION. IT'S TO HAVE THE BETTER PLAYERS WIN.
So in your professional, caps lock opinion, how do we justify what players are the best if we don't have all of them playing on an equal playing field (i.e. racial balance)?
Obviously, if more of the best players are playing Terran, that's a problem for the state of the game. It's a problem because there's a reason top players are flocking to that race. It has the highest skill ceiling. Why can't the other races have higher skill ceilings, allowing top players to consider playing as Zerg or Protoss as they enter in to SC2?
You've assumed that the players who play as Terran automatically deserve to win because they're supposedly better or because they've picked the historically best race (according to the statistics). But as the game has become more and more balanced, we should expect the racial distribution to even out more.
Terran in SC2 has the most skilled players and the highest number of skilled players because Terran in BW had the most skilled players develop during its lifetime, who then transferred over. This in combination with newer players picking terrans due to old BW terran idols like Boxer and Nada (marineking who played Protoss in BW for instance) influence it further. This in combination with terran having the highest skill cap allows for the already better players to improve at a more rapid pace compared to the zergs/protosses.
A lot of the process is random. If MKP, MVP and Nestea were all playing protoss that race would have the most wins and best progress. There are few enough people at the very top that individuals make big differences in statistics, and most of the good players happen to be terran. With this in mind, seeing Blizzard and the community constantly affect terran negatively, either by nerfs or map changes, instead of allowing for zergs and protosses to become better with practice just warps the game balance around to the point where you'll see balanced racial distributions when the better players are competing against bad odds. How do I know who's a good player and who isn't? I've watched this game since the beginning, as have most people, and it's easy to form conclusions about players and what calibre they are, and most of the good players so far have been terran.
As far as protoss/zerg skill cap goes. I hope Blizzard will raise their skill cap to allow for better players to shine, but they don't. They're dumbing down terran to the same level at the moment, and it's hurting the game.
On May 25 2012 22:41 Lightspeaker wrote:
There's a counter-argument founded on the exact point you're trying to make. Specifically:
Players do not HAVE to play any particular race. If the races were balanced you would expect even player distribution across races and even race distribution. When they're not balanced players gravitate towards the strongest races, especially when money is on the line. Terran was OP earlier in the Starcraft 2 cycle meaning many pros gravitated towards it and that allowed them to do better than their actual skill. Now that things are more balanced it's evening up again.
Note: I'm not saying whether or not I agree with that argument. My point is you cannot simply dismiss evidence, you have to add it all together for the overall picture. Statistically the PvT matchup is balanced based on the regularly monthly data about high-level progames posted up on these very forums. Factually Terrans are the most represented and always have been the most represented at the highest levels (Code S) and there are far more medals and championships for Terran than Protoss and Zerg combined.
So trying to argue that your complaints are justified is not backed up by any of the data or facts. Not to mention it's hard to feel pity for people crying about their race being underpowered when a player from said race just won Code S for the fourth time whilst suffering from a wrist injury. Thats not exactly a numerically significant example of course (because it's just one player), but theres a huge amount of irony there.
If all races were balanced in the start there should theoretically be even racial distribution (more on that later), but that's not considering the history of the individual subject, i.e Starcraft 2, which is combined with Brood Wars strategy. In the absolute beginning of SC2s history when no one knew anything about the game there were still twice as many terrans as the other races. That alone should show that there are other factors other than racial balance in the equation. And if racial distribution is your indicator of racial balance, you should check nowhere else except for sc2ranks where terran in all leagues past silver in all regions is the lowest statistically demanding.
Other than that, I don't understand why you see irony and balance whining anywhere. I'd be glad if terran was the least represented race as long as the game was actually being balanced properly, but as it is, it's not. Terran as a whole is being punished for them having the better players. I don't care about people feeling pity about me/terrans/something?. I want to make an argument and try to explain it to people so they can understand it from a new point of view that goes further than statistics that blizzard manipulates to look good.
Alright, DarkPlasmaBall point of view looks pretty clear to me, if you don't understand it it means you're completely retarded.
Or that you're wrong Considering the quality of your posts I'm happy that you don't agree with me as it means that I might be onto something right.
On May 25 2012 22:57 FatalT wrote:
On May 25 2012 22:50 SarcasmMonster wrote:
On May 25 2012 22:44 Remi wrote:
On May 25 2012 22:34 SarcasmMonster wrote:
On May 25 2012 22:29 Remi wrote:
On May 25 2012 22:18 SarcasmMonster wrote:
On May 25 2012 22:15 FuzzyJAM wrote: I do love it when people act as though the game must balanced if there's even racial distribution in Code S.
The idea that there must be identical numbers of equally skilled players in all three races is kind of funny.
Well, compared to this season where 15/32 were Terrans (that's 1 away from half!), it's nice to have a season where it's not so Terran dominated. Players will need to be well rounded in their matchups to advance.
While it is true, that terrans occupy third of code S spots, they are also race that has lost most spots in this season. I wouldn't actually be surprised, judging from tvp and tvz trends after latest patches, that if current state of game will continue, terrans will be the least represented race in code S after season or 2.
have been the most represented race for 2 years in the GSL (often times by a huge margin). If has to suffer through a few seasons of least representation for Blizz to balance patch, then so be it. The future is looking a lot brighter than the past (in terms of Code S race representation).
If you believe that no race should be op (as you imply terrans was in 1st part of your post) then you should be against protoss or zerg being op even for "few" seasons if possible. If you're OK with someone being op (as your 2 part suggest) then why would you think terran domination was a bad thing to begin with? What you can't do is have your cake and eat it too.
Here's what I'm getting at.
1. Balanced racial representation is good for the game. 2. GSL has better racial representation now then ever in its history.
Then you posed a hypothesis that Terrans will be least represented race in 1 or 2 seasons. My 2nd argument is.
1. A few seasons of least representation is not that bad. Some race has to be least represented (barring ties), and if it's only a few months, then nothing to whine about. 2. 2 years of most representation (by large margins) is bad. 3. Therefore we are better off now than before.
Your in favour of laws that requires boards to have a distrubution of xx% of either sex? Even if that means leaving out someone really qualified? Perfect racial distrubution in the GSL shouldn't be the goal for someone who is balancing the game. The best players should get through(not saying Ace didn't deserve to get to Code S).
This, pretty much. People are so hung up on statistical equivalents that they stop to consider the individual players. It's pretty much the same as drafting and equal number of women and men into every business because it looks good statistically, while pissing on their individual achievements.
Well I don't care what you think about the quality of my posts as well as you seems not to care about what I am thinking. But still this applies : + Show Spoiler +
On May 25 2012 22:31 TeeTS wrote: Hey Terran's aren't alowed to complain about balance! MVP won code s guys! That Squirtle just started playing when he was 0-3 down has to be put aside here, because MVP WON CODE S, so everything in this matchup is fine, isn't it?
Funny thing people don't realize is that GSL finals can't tell shit about balance because players are under so much pressure that often who will win mindgames/deal better with the pressure will end up winning. That's why Squirtle got trashed at first 3-0 despite being (imo) better than Mvp in the match-up.
I'm sad that BB didn't get through but if AcE can play good in code S too it would be cool, ST protosses don't fail to deliver.
Don't you realize you're in a thread about GSL ?? Do your balance whine in another thread if you think GSL can't tell shit about balance. Don't u realize there are more terrans than protoss in both code S and code A ?? Don't you realize how better the terrans' results were ?? Don't you realize protoss are in no way OP in GSL ? So then why do you whine about protoss in A GSL THREAD ?? Don't you realize how annoying it is ? Don't you realize how indecent it is ? Don't you realize why you could (and should) be banned for this ??
I mean I don't even want to have a debate about balance, I am complaining about those terrans who always balance whine IN GSL THREADS, where terrans are actually dominating. I wouldn't have any problem if you were talking about yourself playing on the ladder, but you should then do it in the appropriate threads. But here you are doing that in a GSL thread man, you can be banned for it and there is a reason. And moreover it is indecent as terrans win more in GSL. At least you should be able to understand that.
First of all, balance whining has been part of LRs since the beginning. Protosses and zergs have done it for WAY longer than terrans have done it, in case you weren't here in the start. Added to that. I'm actually discussing the racial distributions which were listed in this LR and how to read them. Balance whining would imply that I had a personal agenda, but I don't care about specific races being stronger or weaker than the other. I want the game to be as good as it simply can be, and right now it's going in the wrong way, and a lot of people don't see it. If I was truly balance whining I would have bitched about MKP losing to Ace, in what was a classic show of the lategame TvP problems, but I didn't. I'm strictly speaking of racial distributions in the GSL which is part of this thread. It's simply related to blizzards balancing process, but there's a lot more to it than that.
EPT
have been the most represented race for 2 years in the GSL (often times by a huge margin). If 
