EPTOn April 19 2012 02:45 Golgotha wrote:
who is nani facing next?
who is nani facing next?
Whoever ends up second out of Mvp, July, Hero and Leenock.
[Code S] Ro16 2012 GSL Season 2 Group A - Page 152
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TheBB
Switzerland5133 Posts
Whoever ends up second out of Mvp, July, Hero and Leenock. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On April 19 2012 02:47 ceaRshaf wrote: So this guy, Naniwa, is in round of 8 and people start getting excuses for why Koreans played bad? Naniwa is top form and top quality. DEAL WITH IT! Not even Stephano has that high chances vs any korean as Naniwa does. Haters gonna hate. Even if Nani wins this GSL they will make an excuse for his achievement. Hard to juxtapose a Protoss with a Zerg, but okay: vP: Stephano is awesome at ZvP and is the best foreigner ZvP, but is he the favorite vs. Parting, MC, and Genius? No, but Naniwa is. He hasn't lost a PvP to a Korean Protoss in 2012. Naniwa's PvP > Stephano's ZvP. vT: Naniwa's PvT isn't super hot, but neither is Stephano's ZvT. Against the best TvPers and TvZers, they're about even in this match up - neither have faced the very best and triumphed. The problem is, a lot of top Korean Terrans have trouble in TvP; not a lot have trouble in TvZ. Naniwa's PvT > Stephano's ZvT. vZ: Stephano's ZvZ is top tier, but not better than Nestea, Life, etc., who he's lost to. Naniwa's PvZ is his worst match-up, yet he's beaten Nestea and Leenock. But then again, Naniwa lost to Lucky, who Stephano schooled in ZvZ. They each have their strengths and weaknesses in this match-up. Naniwa's PvZ = Stephano's ZvZ. Yeah, Naniwa has a better shot vs. top Koreans than Stephano, but a lot of that is due to the way the match-ups work and the skill ratio between foreigners and Koreans in those match-ups - PvP being the best example of a match-up where foreigners are >= Koreans, whereas Zerg has no such match-up. | ||
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ceaRshaf
Romania4926 Posts
On April 19 2012 03:03 Azarkon wrote: Hard to juxtapose a Protoss with a Zerg, but okay: vP: Stephano is awesome at ZvP and is the best foreigner ZvP, but is he the favorite vs. Parting, MC, and Genius? No, but Naniwa is. He hasn't lost a PvP to a Korean Protoss in 2012. Naniwa's PvP > Stephano's ZvP. vT: Naniwa's PvT isn't super hot, but neither is Stephano's ZvT. They're about even in this match up - neither have faced the very best Terrans at this match-up and triumphed. Naniwa's PvT = Stephano's ZvT. vZ: Stephano's ZvZ is top tier, but not better than Nestea, Life, etc., who he's lost to. Naniwa's PvZ is his worst match-up, yet he's beaten Nestea and Leenock. But then again, Naniwa lost to Lucky, who Stephano schooled in ZvZ. They each have their strengths and weaknesses in this match-up. Naniwa's PvZ = Stephano's ZvZ. Yeah, Naniwa has a better shot vs. top Koreans than Stephano, but a lot of that is due to the way the match-ups work and the skill ratio between foreigners and Koreans in those match-ups - PvP being the best example of a match-up where foreigners are >= Koreans, whereas Zerg has no such match-up. When Stephano faces a Korean I am afraid that he will lose, getting outplayed somehow. When Naniwa is facing a Korean I consider him atleast on equal grounds at the start. It's just how I feel. I didn't want to compare records or anything. Vs foreigners is the other way around though, Stephano being a foreigner slay machine while Naniwa can lose to a foreign pvp at any time. | ||
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revel8
United Kingdom3022 Posts
On April 19 2012 02:56 SeaSwift wrote: I agree with all of this apart from Ryung. Ryung's TvT and probably TvZ are Code S, but his TvP is dreadful to the point of doubtfully even being Code A standard. Taking anything away from Naniwa's wins so far is moronic, though. He's played incredibly to make it this far. Ryung has earned his place in Code S. He has racked up wins against Puzzle and Trickster in Code S before. So I think it is somewhat harsh to claim he is dreadful at TvP. Many players have a weaker matchup. This does not make these players somehow into not being a valid Code S Level player. Qualifying for Code S, and making it into the later rounds is now suddenly not enough to be a Code S Level Player? You have to not have a weaker matchup too? That's not my definition of Code S Level. | ||
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revel8
United Kingdom3022 Posts
On April 19 2012 02:18 Azarkon wrote: IMO, GSL's system is broken for foreigners. The disparity between MLG & IPL and GSL is this - seed 5-6 foreigners into Code S and you're going to see good foreigner finishes in GSL, but GSL is never going to do that, whereas MLG and IPL are willing to do the equivalent, as their short weekend tournaments and online qualifiers are easy for Koreans to attend and they pay flight, room & board for up to a dozen Korean pros. To approach the level of accessibility that foreigner tournaments have, GSL needs to hold online qualifiers for Code S. But they're not going to do that because that's not the way pro SC is run there. I do agree with this. | ||
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ambient_orange
170 Posts
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ninjamyst
United States1903 Posts
On April 19 2012 02:47 revel8 wrote: This is the sort of post I hate. An attempt to denigrate a players achievements by implying his opponents are not very impressive. Nanima has been getting hate because some folks claim he has not earned his place in Code S, he has not proven he is worthy of his Code S status because he got a seed. These haters claim that only those who have worked their way through Code A qualifiers and then through Code A and then through Up/Down matches have 'earned' their Code S status. Naniwa is getting bashed for getting a seed into Code S. Now that Naniwa is doing well in Code S, the players that Naniwa has defeated in Code S are getting bashed and folks like yourself are implying that Puzzla, Virus and Ryung are somehow not 'true' Code S Players. And yet these players who have 'earned' their way into Code S 'the hard way' are now suddenly easy opponents because Naniwa beat them. What a joke! Haters will go to any lengths to bash foreign achievements. I am not saying ninjamyst is a hater but his post disses the achievements of Naniwa, Ryung and Virus. I am not hating. I am stating a fact that his groups have been easier compared to other groups. I would love for Naniwa to beat MVP or Leenock because that shows he really has improved to the level required to take the championship. | ||
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hotwings
42 Posts
While it's true that GSL is less accesible, the GSL also gives some pretty badass seeding to foreigners who do want to commit. Lets not forget how many foreigners got code S seeding based on nothing else but their popularity. From the way foreigners have been playing in the GSL it seems like only naniwa would have legitimately gotten through Code A. | ||
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babylon
8765 Posts
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Taug
United States146 Posts
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Rookie6
Brazil583 Posts
Some sick games. I want to see you win it all and I definitely think you have the potential to do it! | ||
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SomeONEx
Sweden641 Posts
Also, nani fighting!! | ||
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ceaRshaf
Romania4926 Posts
On April 19 2012 03:23 SomeONEx wrote: After HuK hating on Nani on twitter (troll or not), I wonder how he feels being out of code A and having Nani in ro8. Also, nani fighting!! What did he say? | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On April 19 2012 03:09 ceaRshaf wrote: When Stephano faces a Korean I am afraid that he will lose, getting outplayed somehow. When Naniwa is facing a Korean I consider him atleast on equal grounds at the start. It's just how I feel. I didn't want to compare records or anything. Vs foreigners is the other way around though, Stephano being a foreigner slay machine while Naniwa can lose to a foreign pvp at any time. You're feeling it because it's the way the match-ups work. Foreigner Zergs get outplayed by top Koreans at a higher rate than foreigner Protosses do because foreigner ZvX is behind foreigner PvX when it comes to playing vs. top Koreans. Against Protoss, Stephano is the best ZvPer in the foreigner's scene, but he is the underdog against top Korean PvZers. Naniwa is one of the 2-3 best PvPers in the foreigner's scene, but he is even vs. top Korean PvPers and is the favorite against a lot of top Korean Protosses. Same case with Terran. Alive, MMA, MKP, Ryung, STC, Supernova, Jjakji, Taeja - they're all scary TvZers who Stephano is the underdog against. But vP? MMA and Ryung are not able to TvP their way out of a wet paper bag, while Jjakji, STC, Alive, and Supernova are average in the match-up. That leaves MKP and Taeja to outclass foreigner Protosses - not a lot. Versus Zerg, top Korean Zergs rip apart top foreigner Protosses and Zergs and that's why Naniwa lists it as his worst match-up though he has better success than other foreigner Protosses in it, and why Stephano got outplayed by Life and Nestea. Of the two, I think foreigner ZvZ is a bit better than foreigner PvZ, but in practice it doesn't register against the ginormous gap that exists in foreigner ZvP and XvT. Stephano and Naniwa are both the best the foreigner's scene has got, but of the two, Naniwa has a better shot vs. top Koreans than Stephano does because of the match-ups. | ||
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GreyKnight
United States4720 Posts
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revel8
United Kingdom3022 Posts
On April 19 2012 03:15 ninjamyst wrote: I am not hating. I am stating a fact that his groups have been easier compared to other groups. I would love for Naniwa to beat MVP or Leenock because that shows he really has improved to the level required to take the championship. I agree you are not hating, I just dislike the need to somehow denigrate Naniwa's opponents as being 'borderline Code A'. His opponents were players who have been in Code S in several seasons and have all won games and series in Code S. They are Code S Level, without question. If you had stated that these players were not the favourites to win this GSL then that would be fine. But Code S Level does not mean favourite to win a GSL. That is talking about a further classification of ranking within Code S Level players. There are quite a few Code S Level Players but only very few GSL winners. There is nothing wrong with stating that Naniwa's opponents might not have been the strongest possible opponents he could have faced. Your post seemed to imply that some of Naniwa's opponents were unworthy of even being in Code S. I felt that was disrespecting them, as well as Naniwa for managing to overcome them. | ||
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Technique
Netherlands1542 Posts
On April 19 2012 03:03 TheBB wrote: Whoever ends up second out of Mvp, July, Hero and Leenock. Hmm, so good chance it will be Hero and i think nani will beat hero. Hope it won't be leenock tho. | ||
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ceaRshaf
Romania4926 Posts
On April 19 2012 03:15 ninjamyst wrote: I am not hating. I am stating a fact that his groups have been easier compared to other groups. I would love for Naniwa to beat MVP or Leenock because that shows he really has improved to the level required to take the championship. He did beat both of them in the past. | ||
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GreyKnight
United States4720 Posts
his games just look less effort on his part and he still wins. his engagements look really sloppy and bad honestly and the pvp vs genius was just weird. like for example, nobody doubts supernova's code s quality when he plays games like that vs genius on daybreak. naniwa needs something like that before it cements his status in my opinion. people are blinded by the fact he's a foreigner but i actually think his opponents played insanely poor. i dont want to detract from his accomplishment either but code s feels alot less skilled than last season with champions playing poorly and dropping out. | ||
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Marcus420
Canada1923 Posts
YAY YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYA NANIWAAAA <3 brb vods. XD | ||
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