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On February 04 2012 12:02 xrapture wrote:
both toss advance. easiest liquibet ever
As an unbiased spectator, I barely play the game at all, it's pretty easy to notice Terran is having a pretty hard time with Toss right now, especially on these huge GSL maps that make all-ins and timings less effective. Other races have adapted when they had hard times in matchups, but I don't think Terran can stray far away from their late game composition of MMMVG. Innovation will probably have to come in the area of all- ins and timings.
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Protoss Fuck yeah! MC fighting! :D
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To be honest, the reason terran players are probably more vocal about this TvP lategame thing is because they've been struggling with for god knows how long. Its no secret that it has always been much more difficult for the terran. Now that they are seeing the same exact thing in the GSL, they probably feel its a good time to bring up any issues there might or might not be.
Just pointing it out since its hardly a case of terran players not being able to accept "their race" losing a couple of games, somehow afraid their domination is endangered. There's a history of frustration behind it.
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Looks like Jjakji complains about Protoss:
"토스는사기다....."
+ Show Spoiler +"Google translate: Toss a fraud ...."
Today's matches surely generated a lot of balance discussion, not only in this thread but on twitter too.
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On February 08 2012 23:45 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 23:21 n0btozz wrote:TeamLiquid is so funny. Finally Protoss punches back, and now all you can hear is "IMBALANCE IMBALANCE - MY PRECIOUS TERRAN IS SO WEAK - How can it be that in the Ro8 there are not at least 4-5 Terrans? What is happening blizzard!!! Fix this madness!  " We have heard this before havn´t we? "Oh NOES! Infestors getting nerfed, now there is NO way to deal with protoss deathball, zerg will lose 100% of the time, BLIZZARD FIX THIS!" And we even heard it again "OH NOES! Protoss can´t win 1-1-1!!! What is this bullshit! Imbalance - Imbalance - please help us protosses out!" Certainly, sometimes small balance changes have come from blizzard to help a little bit, but never more then that. I don´t think the immortal buff was even needed to fight off 1-1-1. Small changes to the map pool + Protoss innovation did the job just fine. Same can be said about the infestor nerf, which was a Destiny nerf  , Zerg´s as a whole didn´t get that "terrible" resaults and they managed to innovate enough so that in the last year, Zerg has had the second best win ratio in the GSL, after the very underpowered Terran race. ![[image loading]](http://s7.postimage.org/y9o0pw7wr/graph.png) + Show Spoiler +This is Code S/Code A statistics for these tournaments. The January one is just the games played so far This is the last 3 GSL´s - Somehow we have a bunch of Terrans whining on this thread about how OP protoss is, how OP 2 base all ins are from protoss and how OP protoss is late game. Terran has a lot of ways to deal with protoss, the fact is, Terran´s havn´t had to worry about protosses in the GSL because, well...the race has been so under-powered/under-represented in the GSL in the last 6 months that at some points it has seemed like a 2 race game. Now so far in the GSL January 2012 it seems that Protoss is actually having the highest win rate, beating out Terran by 3%. This GSL is not over, and somehow I feel confident in taking a bet with anyone, that when it´s over, Terran will, once again in yet another GSL have the highest win ratio of all the races. Also you have to take something into consideration. These are the "top top" Protoss and Zerg´s who are playing in the GSL code A/S. These are the ones that have managed to stick there/get there in spite of Terran´s dominance. The higher protoss win rate could partially be attributed to Terrans, who got there on the wings of Terran dominance, can´t stay there when the other races fight back and have had small buffs from Blizzard. You have to remember, Terran is around 50% of the GSL and seems to only now have stopped growing that number, around GSL November, it looked like it would just keep on growing and growing, that is, the number of Terrans in the GSL, thankfully that didn´t happen. Now - I suggest as many have suggested above me, do not go into full panic just because your race has fallen behind in win ratio against 1 race, you are still around 60% win ratio in the GSL, and somehow you dare to whine? Sure looks like some race is used to only...winning... I have to say though, where is the outrage at what is going on with zerg? Zerg seems to be struggling so much, mainly against Terran, a 66% win ratio in TvZ is pretty hard core...Yet my great friend MorroW is quick to point out "there is HUGES trouble with TvP" not mentioning TvZ which funny enough are his specialities and the 2 races he playes, maybe he just doesn´t understand Protoss as well? Maybe that is why the matchup vs protoss is more or a struggle for him then the more unbalanced ZvT? Who knows, I know that I don´t know the answer to that but it´s just a thought. At the very least, YES I know it´s a big shock seeing protoss rise above the 40% that it was in, and now reaching 60% but this is mostly innovation, cleaner builds, and last but not least, this is the forefront of protoss play, these are the top top players. With Terran you have effectively 2-3 tiers of them just within Code S/A and they display varying quality. There might be something wrong with PvT - but shouldn´t we let 1-2 GSL´s pass - or at least see if it won´t just be a Terran like usually who wins this GSL, before we start burning races at the stake and whining imbalance. Maybe the game is just evening out, and that would require Terrans seeded above their skill level to drop down, and this goes for everyone, from top top GM down to Plat, maybe we see Terrans fall down a little through these leagues, who knows. I'm sorry, I know we aren't supposed to talk balance in the LR threads but I can't help but respond this post. I'm honestly sick and tired of people like this who strictly look at GSL results to talk about balance. Yes, we know protoss has struggled in the GSL, but everywhere else they have been doing just fine, in fact they have been doing better than fine. Before the most recent protoss buffs/terran nerfs we saw both NaNiwa and HuK take huge tournament wins, with fields including many of the GSL caliber koreans. The fact of the matter is Protoss was fine in PvT before receiving multiple buffs. Now protoss players have adjusted their game and along with the buffs/nerfs it has become an imbalanced matchup, not OP, but imbalanced. Terran still has great potential, you just have to be MMA or MVP to reach that potential. Whereas protoss can be used with scary effectiveness by just about anyone. The fact of the matter is, outside of the GSL Protoss was competing just fine before receiving a number of buffs.
I think you overrestimate these buffs/nerfs. Immortal buff was a pvp change for the most part, the fact that we see these immortal timings is not because they magically became possible because immortals have 1 more range, it's because people started playing around with immortals when they got buffed. Pretty much the same for the update buff, for 3/3 it's like 75/75 that you actually safe, that buff was a 100% metagame change. And pls keep in mind that before emp nerf that damn thing had more range than fumble and storm, all this change did was to make sure that lesser skilled terrans can't just emp spam stim a move roflstomp around.
You said it yourself if you are really good at terran you can still absolutly destroy protoss, I thought we should talk about balance on the highest level. If you look at foreign terrans there are very few that are on the same level of play as a korean code s terran, BUT if a better play can deal with something that a lesser player can't that doesn't mean the game is imbalanced that means the lower level player needs to stop qqing and actually practice to become better. I just feel like a lot of wood league terrans are having a hard time right now vs protoss, see protoss doing well in a tournament (besides the fact that thus far terran had the most in every gsl code s round this season and they are still even with protoss in the ro8..) and start bitching asap. Worst part is when some pro who doesn't even play the matchup comes in and agrees. If a terran looses to a protoss at this point it's because he played worse not because the game is imbalanced, same goes the other way around.
Protoss did do the worst in gsl at the time of their downfall (though during the exact same time they were in fact doing poorly in foreign competitions as well), huk won at the end of the slump, not during it. The only big win naniwaw had was the global invitational and at that point protoss was clearly out of the slump.
Also as terrans said when toss was qqing: Adapt/innovate you are just playing bad lolololololol!!!
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LOLs. Just wanted to point out that GSL wants less terran through protoss-favoured maps and the maps are finally working. So I wouldn't read too much into it.
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its not really a news, if you watch bombers,polt, forgg stream they all complained on chat that protoss is imba.
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GG WP MC and Parting!! Really wellplayed. Now we wait for group D!!! O____________o
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just as expected. mc and parting.
late game tvp is hard for terran no doubt. up to the terran to try and do something before then.
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On February 08 2012 23:56 wklbishop wrote:
LOLs. Just wanted to point out that GSL wants less terran through protoss-favoured maps and the maps are finally working. So I wouldn't read too much into it.
Well its still a sad state of balance if protoss-favored maps mean you can expand freely and timing attacks are ineffective.
That basically means terran is fucked in a macro game and just needs to abuse different timing attacks ad infinitum.
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The reason why a lot of terrans are quick to jump to the conclusion that toss is overpowered just from these few games is reflective on their own laddering. It is safe to say that from bronze to even GM , terran is having hell of a time facing protoss. Now that the korean pros are finally falling to toss, terrans can actually come out and voice themselves without being shut down by toss saying " well jjakji can do it" .
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gogo MC lol....finally Terran is struggling <3
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On February 08 2012 23:56 Lorch wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 23:45 SupLilSon wrote:On February 08 2012 23:21 n0btozz wrote:TeamLiquid is so funny. Finally Protoss punches back, and now all you can hear is "IMBALANCE IMBALANCE - MY PRECIOUS TERRAN IS SO WEAK - How can it be that in the Ro8 there are not at least 4-5 Terrans? What is happening blizzard!!! Fix this madness! " We have heard this before havn´t we? "Oh NOES! Infestors getting nerfed, now there is NO way to deal with protoss deathball, zerg will lose 100% of the time, BLIZZARD FIX THIS!" And we even heard it again "OH NOES! Protoss can´t win 1-1-1!!! What is this bullshit! Imbalance - Imbalance - please help us protosses out!" Certainly, sometimes small balance changes have come from blizzard to help a little bit, but never more then that. I don´t think the immortal buff was even needed to fight off 1-1-1. Small changes to the map pool + Protoss innovation did the job just fine. Same can be said about the infestor nerf, which was a Destiny nerf , Zerg´s as a whole didn´t get that "terrible" resaults and they managed to innovate enough so that in the last year, Zerg has had the second best win ratio in the GSL, after the very underpowered Terran race. + Show Spoiler +This is Code S/Code A statistics for these tournaments. The January one is just the games played so far This is the last 3 GSL´s - Somehow we have a bunch of Terrans whining on this thread about how OP protoss is, how OP 2 base all ins are from protoss and how OP protoss is late game. Terran has a lot of ways to deal with protoss, the fact is, Terran´s havn´t had to worry about protosses in the GSL because, well...the race has been so under-powered/under-represented in the GSL in the last 6 months that at some points it has seemed like a 2 race game. Now so far in the GSL January 2012 it seems that Protoss is actually having the highest win rate, beating out Terran by 3%. This GSL is not over, and somehow I feel confident in taking a bet with anyone, that when it´s over, Terran will, once again in yet another GSL have the highest win ratio of all the races. Also you have to take something into consideration. These are the "top top" Protoss and Zerg´s who are playing in the GSL code A/S. These are the ones that have managed to stick there/get there in spite of Terran´s dominance. The higher protoss win rate could partially be attributed to Terrans, who got there on the wings of Terran dominance, can´t stay there when the other races fight back and have had small buffs from Blizzard. You have to remember, Terran is around 50% of the GSL and seems to only now have stopped growing that number, around GSL November, it looked like it would just keep on growing and growing, that is, the number of Terrans in the GSL, thankfully that didn´t happen. Now - I suggest as many have suggested above me, do not go into full panic just because your race has fallen behind in win ratio against 1 race, you are still around 60% win ratio in the GSL, and somehow you dare to whine? Sure looks like some race is used to only...winning... I have to say though, where is the outrage at what is going on with zerg? Zerg seems to be struggling so much, mainly against Terran, a 66% win ratio in TvZ is pretty hard core...Yet my great friend MorroW is quick to point out "there is HUGES trouble with TvP" not mentioning TvZ which funny enough are his specialities and the 2 races he playes, maybe he just doesn´t understand Protoss as well? Maybe that is why the matchup vs protoss is more or a struggle for him then the more unbalanced ZvT? Who knows, I know that I don´t know the answer to that but it´s just a thought. At the very least, YES I know it´s a big shock seeing protoss rise above the 40% that it was in, and now reaching 60% but this is mostly innovation, cleaner builds, and last but not least, this is the forefront of protoss play, these are the top top players. With Terran you have effectively 2-3 tiers of them just within Code S/A and they display varying quality. There might be something wrong with PvT - but shouldn´t we let 1-2 GSL´s pass - or at least see if it won´t just be a Terran like usually who wins this GSL, before we start burning races at the stake and whining imbalance. Maybe the game is just evening out, and that would require Terrans seeded above their skill level to drop down, and this goes for everyone, from top top GM down to Plat, maybe we see Terrans fall down a little through these leagues, who knows. I'm sorry, I know we aren't supposed to talk balance in the LR threads but I can't help but respond this post. I'm honestly sick and tired of people like this who strictly look at GSL results to talk about balance. Yes, we know protoss has struggled in the GSL, but everywhere else they have been doing just fine, in fact they have been doing better than fine. Before the most recent protoss buffs/terran nerfs we saw both NaNiwa and HuK take huge tournament wins, with fields including many of the GSL caliber koreans. The fact of the matter is Protoss was fine in PvT before receiving multiple buffs. Now protoss players have adjusted their game and along with the buffs/nerfs it has become an imbalanced matchup, not OP, but imbalanced. Terran still has great potential, you just have to be MMA or MVP to reach that potential. Whereas protoss can be used with scary effectiveness by just about anyone. The fact of the matter is, outside of the GSL Protoss was competing just fine before receiving a number of buffs. I think you overrestimate these buffs/nerfs. Immortal buff was a pvp change for the most part, the fact that we see these immortal timings is not because they magically became possible because immortals have 1 more range, it's because people started playing around with immortals when they got buffed. Pretty much the same for the update buff, for 3/3 it's like 75/75 that you actually safe, that buff was a 100% metagame change. And pls keep in mind that before emp nerf that damn thing had more range than fumble and storm, all this change did was to make sure that lesser skilled terrans can't just emp spam stim a move roflstomp around. You said it yourself if you are really good at terran you can still absolutly destroy protoss, I thought we should talk about balance on the highest level. If you look at foreign terrans there are very few that are on the same level of play as a korean code s terran, BUT if a better play can deal with something that a lesser player can't that doesn't mean the game is imbalanced that means the lower level player needs to stop qqing and actually practice to become better. I just feel like a lot of wood league terrans are having a hard time right now vs protoss, see protoss doing well in a tournament (besides the fact that thus far terran had the most in every gsl code s round this season and they are still even with protoss in the ro8..) and start bitching asap. Worst part is when some pro who doesn't even play the matchup comes in and agrees. If a terran looses to a protoss at this point it's because he played worse not because the game is imbalanced, same goes the other way around. Protoss did do the worst in gsl at the time of their downfall (though during the exact same time they were in fact doing poorly in foreign competitions as well), huk won at the end of the slump, not during it. The only big win naniwaw had was the global invitational and at that point protoss was clearly out of the slump. Also as terrans said when toss was qqing: Adapt/innovate you are just playing bad lolololololol!!!
Immortal buff may have been intended to PvP but it sure as hell plays a role in PvT. Protoss players love to bleat on about how little the buffs were and how they hardly have any affect, yet we already see a 20% increase in GSL, the place where protoss has stuggled the most? Maybe they didnt need the buffs then? I dont know. And yea, if youre MVP or MMA you can still beat protoss, aside from them it's pretty bleak. I thought JJiakji was supposed to be a TvP specialist, guess not.. And there were tons of Protoss victories before and during this "slump". Naniwa had his miracle run through MLG, MaNa has been stomping Terrans for god knows how long. PuMa got stomped by HerO, despite using the IMBAOP 1-1-1. And like another poster said, despite GSL results, the fact is, many of us Terrans have struggled with TvP for a LONG time. We arent MVP, we don't have 300 APM and BW mechanics. The sheer amount of skill Terran needs to win in this matchup is daunting and is why we are seeing so many strong Terrans get stomped if they aren't miles above the rest of the competition.
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On February 09 2012 00:09 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 23:56 Lorch wrote:On February 08 2012 23:45 SupLilSon wrote:On February 08 2012 23:21 n0btozz wrote:TeamLiquid is so funny. Finally Protoss punches back, and now all you can hear is "IMBALANCE IMBALANCE - MY PRECIOUS TERRAN IS SO WEAK - How can it be that in the Ro8 there are not at least 4-5 Terrans? What is happening blizzard!!! Fix this madness! " We have heard this before havn´t we? "Oh NOES! Infestors getting nerfed, now there is NO way to deal with protoss deathball, zerg will lose 100% of the time, BLIZZARD FIX THIS!" And we even heard it again "OH NOES! Protoss can´t win 1-1-1!!! What is this bullshit! Imbalance - Imbalance - please help us protosses out!" Certainly, sometimes small balance changes have come from blizzard to help a little bit, but never more then that. I don´t think the immortal buff was even needed to fight off 1-1-1. Small changes to the map pool + Protoss innovation did the job just fine. Same can be said about the infestor nerf, which was a Destiny nerf , Zerg´s as a whole didn´t get that "terrible" resaults and they managed to innovate enough so that in the last year, Zerg has had the second best win ratio in the GSL, after the very underpowered Terran race. + Show Spoiler +This is Code S/Code A statistics for these tournaments. The January one is just the games played so far This is the last 3 GSL´s - Somehow we have a bunch of Terrans whining on this thread about how OP protoss is, how OP 2 base all ins are from protoss and how OP protoss is late game. Terran has a lot of ways to deal with protoss, the fact is, Terran´s havn´t had to worry about protosses in the GSL because, well...the race has been so under-powered/under-represented in the GSL in the last 6 months that at some points it has seemed like a 2 race game. Now so far in the GSL January 2012 it seems that Protoss is actually having the highest win rate, beating out Terran by 3%. This GSL is not over, and somehow I feel confident in taking a bet with anyone, that when it´s over, Terran will, once again in yet another GSL have the highest win ratio of all the races. Also you have to take something into consideration. These are the "top top" Protoss and Zerg´s who are playing in the GSL code A/S. These are the ones that have managed to stick there/get there in spite of Terran´s dominance. The higher protoss win rate could partially be attributed to Terrans, who got there on the wings of Terran dominance, can´t stay there when the other races fight back and have had small buffs from Blizzard. You have to remember, Terran is around 50% of the GSL and seems to only now have stopped growing that number, around GSL November, it looked like it would just keep on growing and growing, that is, the number of Terrans in the GSL, thankfully that didn´t happen. Now - I suggest as many have suggested above me, do not go into full panic just because your race has fallen behind in win ratio against 1 race, you are still around 60% win ratio in the GSL, and somehow you dare to whine? Sure looks like some race is used to only...winning... I have to say though, where is the outrage at what is going on with zerg? Zerg seems to be struggling so much, mainly against Terran, a 66% win ratio in TvZ is pretty hard core...Yet my great friend MorroW is quick to point out "there is HUGES trouble with TvP" not mentioning TvZ which funny enough are his specialities and the 2 races he playes, maybe he just doesn´t understand Protoss as well? Maybe that is why the matchup vs protoss is more or a struggle for him then the more unbalanced ZvT? Who knows, I know that I don´t know the answer to that but it´s just a thought. At the very least, YES I know it´s a big shock seeing protoss rise above the 40% that it was in, and now reaching 60% but this is mostly innovation, cleaner builds, and last but not least, this is the forefront of protoss play, these are the top top players. With Terran you have effectively 2-3 tiers of them just within Code S/A and they display varying quality. There might be something wrong with PvT - but shouldn´t we let 1-2 GSL´s pass - or at least see if it won´t just be a Terran like usually who wins this GSL, before we start burning races at the stake and whining imbalance. Maybe the game is just evening out, and that would require Terrans seeded above their skill level to drop down, and this goes for everyone, from top top GM down to Plat, maybe we see Terrans fall down a little through these leagues, who knows. I'm sorry, I know we aren't supposed to talk balance in the LR threads but I can't help but respond this post. I'm honestly sick and tired of people like this who strictly look at GSL results to talk about balance. Yes, we know protoss has struggled in the GSL, but everywhere else they have been doing just fine, in fact they have been doing better than fine. Before the most recent protoss buffs/terran nerfs we saw both NaNiwa and HuK take huge tournament wins, with fields including many of the GSL caliber koreans. The fact of the matter is Protoss was fine in PvT before receiving multiple buffs. Now protoss players have adjusted their game and along with the buffs/nerfs it has become an imbalanced matchup, not OP, but imbalanced. Terran still has great potential, you just have to be MMA or MVP to reach that potential. Whereas protoss can be used with scary effectiveness by just about anyone. The fact of the matter is, outside of the GSL Protoss was competing just fine before receiving a number of buffs. I think you overrestimate these buffs/nerfs. Immortal buff was a pvp change for the most part, the fact that we see these immortal timings is not because they magically became possible because immortals have 1 more range, it's because people started playing around with immortals when they got buffed. Pretty much the same for the update buff, for 3/3 it's like 75/75 that you actually safe, that buff was a 100% metagame change. And pls keep in mind that before emp nerf that damn thing had more range than fumble and storm, all this change did was to make sure that lesser skilled terrans can't just emp spam stim a move roflstomp around. You said it yourself if you are really good at terran you can still absolutly destroy protoss, I thought we should talk about balance on the highest level. If you look at foreign terrans there are very few that are on the same level of play as a korean code s terran, BUT if a better play can deal with something that a lesser player can't that doesn't mean the game is imbalanced that means the lower level player needs to stop qqing and actually practice to become better. I just feel like a lot of wood league terrans are having a hard time right now vs protoss, see protoss doing well in a tournament (besides the fact that thus far terran had the most in every gsl code s round this season and they are still even with protoss in the ro8..) and start bitching asap. Worst part is when some pro who doesn't even play the matchup comes in and agrees. If a terran looses to a protoss at this point it's because he played worse not because the game is imbalanced, same goes the other way around. Protoss did do the worst in gsl at the time of their downfall (though during the exact same time they were in fact doing poorly in foreign competitions as well), huk won at the end of the slump, not during it. The only big win naniwaw had was the global invitational and at that point protoss was clearly out of the slump. Also as terrans said when toss was qqing: Adapt/innovate you are just playing bad lolololololol!!! Immortal buff may have been intended to PvP but it sure as hell plays a role in PvT. Protoss players love to bleat on about how little the buffs were and how they hardly have any affect, yet we already see a 20% increase in GSL, the place where protoss has stuggled the most? Maybe they didnt need the buffs then? I dont know. And yea, if youre MVP or MMA you can still beat protoss, aside from them it's pretty bleak. I thought JJiakji was supposed to be a TvP specialist, guess not.. And there were tons of Protoss victories before and during this "slump". Naniwa had his miracle run through MLG, MaNa has been stomping Terrans for god knows how long. PuMa got stomped by HerO, despite using the IMBAOP 1-1-1. And like another poster said, despite GSL results, the fact is, many of us Terrans have struggled with TvP for a LONG time. We arent MVP, we don't have 300 APM and BW mechanics. The sheer amount of skill Terran needs to win in this matchup is daunting and is why we are seeing so many strong Terrans get stomped if they aren't miles above the rest of the competition.
I don't know about the Mana one as I don't watch a lot of EU starcraft but everything else you listed happened at the end of the slump/when it was already over. If you actually watch jjkaji's games vs protoss during his run to code s champion you'll see that he did so by using wierd timings/allins and not while doing standard MM compositions. When all you have is like 3 guys any increase will have the sickest %-rate, thanks to the old format there were a lot of bad terrans in code s and at the same time a lot of young and talented protoss came through from code a, also please keep in mind that this season still 50% of code s were terran.
How can you bitch about something being to hard to being too skillful? That's what fucking motivates me to play this game, what motivated me to play brood war, the fact that it is hard and sometimes the metagame will be at a point were it's harder for one race than the other, but the solution to that is not qqing, top terrans show that protoss is certainly beatable with what you have, if you care enough about this game to cry about balance you should care enough to put in the time. Also chances are the protoss you are facing are not even close to being as good as the ones mma/mvp face so you certainly don't need to be on their level in the first place.
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Jakji just didn't play very well. His play was far too passive and he didn't use his mobility well enough. Midgame he also just failed to keep expanding properly, Parting simply outmacro'd him in the end both games. Yes jakji won some decisive battles a few times but only barely and often failed to macro up properly in the meantime. There were quite a few times he could have done two pronged attacks but he never did, parting's style is very vulnerable in the early midgame but jakji never used that.
Protoss has a lategame advantage if both players get their on equal economy, terran however can often force to be ahead on economy because aggresively expanding with planetaries is easy while expanding fast as protoss is really hard if the terran is properly aggressive.
The only thing that may be looking problematic is the immortal 2 base attack but I'm sure terrans are just doing an awful job defending against that, any game i see terran lose it they make huge mistakes by misplacing their army and letting it get FF'ed too easily. Also they are relying too much on bunkers instead of just having a healthy amount of units.
Any effect so far is probably more the result of there simply being quite a bit of relatively lackluster TvP terrans out there, since they haven't had the need to really train the matchup before..
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jesus crist terrans, can you PLEASE STOP whine? how many times have we seen toss in GSL FINALS? like 4 times, how many terrans? like 11 thousand. and if we get back few months back did any of you terrans remember how we had like 2 toss in RO16 while like 12 terrans and 0 toss in RO8 while all other was 7 terrans and Nestea, jesus crist pathetic.
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I just hate seeing a protoss double expand off 1-2 gates, add gates to absurd numbers, and go pressure a terran's front as if they were even on bases. Why is it that parting never looked vulnerable early on with these "risky" 3 base plays? How is it he can almost kill a terran with bunkers that has stayed on 2 bases? Where is the give and take?
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Frankly, I would be more than happy if Terran struggles for about 5-6 months, because that's what has been happening for the other two races. No race deserves to be on the top for the entire duration of the game's existence. Also as terran's kept saying when toss was down, "its just a metagame thing, terran is just more developed", I think its time for us to use the same logic. "Terran has been winning all the time, so they were not forced to innovate and they have stagnated, so they are beginning to lose now"
Am I right or am I right?
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On February 09 2012 00:18 Soldier92 wrote:
I just hate seeing a protoss double expand off 1-2 gates, add gates to absurd numbers, and go pressure a terran's front as if they were even on bases. Why is it that parting never looked vulnerable early on with these "risky" 3 base plays? How is it he can almost kill a terran with bunkers that has stayed on 2 bases? Where is the give and take?
toss being weak early game is a misconception ... from terrans choosing to all inning tosses. If they terran does not all in,there isn't a problem with toss early game.
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EPT
