EPT[GSL] 2012 Season 1 Code S Ro16 Group C - Page 155
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Bashion
Cook Islands2612 Posts
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On February 09 2012 00:15 Lorch wrote: I don't know about the Mana one as I don't watch a lot of EU starcraft but everything else you listed happened at the end of the slump/when it was already over. If you actually watch jjkaji's games vs protoss during his run to code s champion you'll see that he did so by using wierd timings/allins and not while doing standard MM compositions. When all you have is like 3 guys any increase will have the sickest %-rate, thanks to the old format there were a lot of bad terrans in code s and at the same time a lot of young and talented protoss came through from code a, also please keep in mind that this season still 50% of code s were terran. How can you bitch about something being to hard to being too skillful? That's what fucking motivates me to play this game, what motivated me to play brood war, the fact that it is hard and sometimes the metagame will be at a point were it's harder for one race than the other, but the solution to that is not qqing, top terrans show that protoss is certainly beatable with what you have, if you care enough about this game to cry about balance you should care enough to put in the time. Also chances are the protoss you are facing are not even close to being as good as the ones mma/mvp face so you certainly don't need to be on their level in the first place. Lol you do. Because protoss can imitate professional quality play a lot more easily. For terran it is virtually impossible to replicate what we see in the GSL simply because our fingers and brain won't do it. For protoss you can watch and GSL vod and go stomp some ladder with w/e timing you just replicate. Terran is so much about the execution of strategy that even the all powerful 1-1-1 was hardly a viable option for many of us even when it was considered OP. And if anything top terrans have been showing that protoss is extremely hard to beat, and many of them have come out and said Protoss is OP. But w/e I;m done becuase this isnt the right place for balance talk. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On February 09 2012 00:19 Piledriver wrote: Frankly, I would be more than happy if Terran struggles for about 5-6 months, because that's what has been happening for the other two races. No race deserves to be on the top for the entire duration of the game's existence. Also as terran's kept saying when toss was down, "its just a metagame thing, terran is just more developed", I think its time for us to use the same logic. "Terran has been winning all the time, so they were not forced to innovate and they have stagnated, so they are beginning to lose now" Am I right or am I right?  As long as it leads to terran buffs like with the other races that struggled, I'm happy either way. | ||
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rtsAlaran
Germany383 Posts
1st thing to do after greeting gf and daughter: check how mc did! wohoo nice!  | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
I think most terrans didn't feel too bad about using 111 when it worked (it blows now that toss have figured it out) was because they knew that going into a late game on equal footing with a protoss was a death wish. I'm not wood league - I play high masters players and run into GMs on the NA server - and my feeling is that as long as a protoss player turtles and uses his observers to make the right unit/tech/upgrade decisions it will be very hard to win the game, even if I'm up on bases or have a faster economic headstart. I admit it can be hard for protosses to learn how to defend against the various allins that the other races can do, but the amount of tactical skill required in late game scenarios is vastly more for the terran player in any relatively equal game. The joke is that you can't even be too greedy as a terran player to try and get a lead because now protosses have figured out how to kill you while being up on bases. | ||
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n0btozz
Iceland115 Posts
On February 08 2012 23:45 SupLilSon wrote: I'm sorry, I know we aren't supposed to talk balance in the LR threads but I can't help but respond this post. I'm honestly sick and tired of people like this who strictly look at GSL results to talk about balance. Yes, we know protoss has struggled in the GSL, but everywhere else they have been doing just fine, in fact they have been doing better than fine. Before the most recent protoss buffs/terran nerfs we saw both NaNiwa and HuK take huge tournament wins, with fields including many of the GSL caliber koreans. The fact of the matter is Protoss was fine in PvT before receiving multiple buffs. Now protoss players have adjusted their game and along with the buffs/nerfs it has become an imbalanced matchup, not OP, but imbalanced. Terran still has great potential, you just have to be MMA or MVP to reach that potential. Whereas protoss can be used with scary effectiveness by just about anyone. The fact of the matter is, outside of the GSL Protoss was competing just fine before receiving a number of buffs. riiiiight...So taking a whole year of the highest level of play, code S/code A - is not applicable because HuK and Naniwa manged to go far in big tournaments? Son - your logic is flawed. In code S/code A players have time to prepare, you see the highest caliber games in the most balanced setting. MLG or any "weekend" tournament like that has more varying factors then say the GSL. First of all, the caliber of play is higher in the GSL, but not only that matters. Jet lag - playing for lengthy amounts of time - Little preperation. These are all things the GSL doesn´t have to deal with. At the highest level, protoss has been constantly struggling and you just don´t want to face that | ||
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cyclone25
Romania3344 Posts
On February 09 2012 00:16 lamz wrote: jesus crist terrans, can you PLEASE STOP whine? how many times have we seen toss in GSL FINALS? like 4 times, how many terrans? like 11 thousand. and if we get back few months back did any of you terrans remember how we had like 2 toss in RO16 while like 12 terrans and 0 toss in RO8 while all other was 7 terrans and Nestea, jesus crist pathetic. Past results (except the last 2-3 months), mean nothing. Protoss got buffed a lot since then. You can't bring very old results into the current balance discussion. I'm not saying that Protoss is OP now, but if you want to talk balance, do it properly. | ||
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Apolex
Canada103 Posts
On February 09 2012 00:24 Bagi wrote: As long as it leads to terran buffs like with the other races that struggled, I'm happy either way. except if toss used charge lots / archons / hts reinforcements 6 months ago, they would've still be in the same position they are now. So in that case, it was toss not using everything they have. As for terrans, it is very hard to transition and swift to other units other than bio. it doesn't make sense to build factories and upgrade mech 15 minutes into the game... while stalkers / sentires/ zealots / hts / dts / archons all come from warp ins and uses the same upgrades. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On February 09 2012 00:21 Bashion wrote: The whinning made this thread one of the worst LR threads i ve ever seem Seriously the whine is not that bad, protoss and zerg whine was way worse in my memory. The funny thing is that there are most posts that whine about the whine than whine posts. (edit : after this page this isn't really true anymore xD) Both are bad, but this thread is pretty much ok compared to what we've seen before. | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
his endgame. TvZ endgame is at least alot of fun to play even if its hard. TvP is not even fun to play its just frustrating. | ||
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Kamais Ookin
Canada591 Posts
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iAmBiGbiRd
Australia1029 Posts
I rest my case, now quit bitching and actually change your playstyle like the other races had too and with all due respect shut the fuzz up | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On February 09 2012 00:39 iAmBiGbiRd wrote: Stupid argument by Terrans, since release Terran has consistently been the #1 race, and don't jump down my throat saying im crying as i mean results wise. In that period both Zerg and Protoss have had huge downfalls where, you guessed it, they struggled vs Terran. Sure toss deathballs were effective vs Zerg for a while then with infestor buff infestor Broodlord became very tough for toss to beat. During both these periods Terran > Zerg/Toss quite comfortably. I think the funniest moment during this was a six month + period when Toss was getting Fucking stomped (I don't mean beaten, i mean stomped all day every day) but one tournament HuK managed to win and MC came 4th? So everyone said OMG TOSS IS BACK IT ISN'T WEAK OMG. Look at this, Terran do bad in one NOT EVEN COMPLETED SEASON of GSL and the Terran tears are flowing. Can i ask who won the last IEM, who won the last season of GSL, who won the last season of NASL?? I rest my case, now quit bitching and actually change your playstyle like the other races had too and with all due respect shut the fuzz up I think the conclusion is that people from all races should just not bitch at all. People have a really short memory, when you put things into their context and see the mid and long term, it's never as bad as people think. | ||
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NeilSC
114 Posts
Stop all the QQ and just play... You are not pro, you play for fun. If you feel your race is weak so what? Their are tons of people who play your race that are way better then you so you still have lots of room for improvement!!! | ||
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cyclone25
Romania3344 Posts
On February 09 2012 00:21 Bashion wrote: The whinning made this thread one of the worst LR threads i ve ever seem Just leave your "nice games today" comment and go away then. Many pro players discussed the current PvT balance during today's matches, do you think people will just ignore their comments? People like you who post one-liners whining about the balance whiners are even worse. If you think someone has gone too far, just report him and be done with it. I personally like to read well argumentated opinions about today's matches, even if they include balance discussion. | ||
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mrtomjones
Canada4020 Posts
On February 09 2012 00:39 iAmBiGbiRd wrote: Stupid argument by Terrans, since release Terran has consistently been the #1 race, and don't jump down my throat saying im crying as i mean results wise. In that period both Zerg and Protoss have had huge downfalls where, you guessed it, they struggled vs Terran. Sure toss deathballs were effective vs Zerg for a while then with infestor buff infestor Broodlord became very tough for toss to beat. During both these periods Terran > Zerg/Toss quite comfortably. I think the funniest moment during this was a six month + period when Toss was getting Fucking stomped (I don't mean beaten, i mean stomped all day every day) but one tournament HuK managed to win and MC came 4th? So everyone said OMG TOSS IS BACK IT ISN'T WEAK OMG. Look at this, Terran do bad in one NOT EVEN COMPLETED SEASON of GSL and the Terran tears are flowing. Can i ask who won the last IEM, who won the last season of GSL, who won the last season of NASL?? I rest my case, now quit bitching and actually change your playstyle like the other races had too and with all due respect shut the fuzz up haha exactly.. the best Terran in the world is still in the GSL and got here beating down Protoss. Of course I refer to MMA. Toss struggled for a LONG time till recently and it wasn't really any buffs that made them start doing better in GSL but more of a strategy shift and general skill increase once MC wasn't the only one making new strategies etc. It could still be a Terran winning this tournament beating multiple Toss on the way which would imply to me that they are beatable and that perhaps with some strategy adjustments it could swing the other way. | ||
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Piledriver
United States1697 Posts
On February 09 2012 00:24 Bagi wrote: As long as it leads to terran buffs like with the other races that struggled, I'm happy either way. I wouldn't hold my breath for it. I highly doubt if Blizz would even touch Bio with a bargepole, because even slightly buffing it would destroy early game for other two races. If anything, you might see a small mech buff, but overall, I think we are going to have to wait for HotS for the matchup to be shaken up with Battle hellions and the new mech unit (forgot its name), along with the shredder + PFs to make up for mech immobility. | ||
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-TesteR-
Canada1165 Posts
On February 09 2012 00:30 cyclone25 wrote: Past results (except the last 2-3 months), mean nothing. Protoss got buffed a lot since then. You can't bring very old results into the current balance discussion. I'm not saying that Protoss is OP now, but if you want to talk balance, do it properly. There is no way to talk balance properly, its a bias shit slinging contest from each race, especially in an LR thread. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46294 Posts
On February 09 2012 00:08 Apolex wrote: The reason why a lot of terrans are quick to jump to the conclusion that toss is overpowered just from these few games is reflective on their own laddering. It is safe to say that from bronze to even GM , terran is having hell of a time facing protoss. Now that the korean pros are finally falling to toss, terrans can actually come out and voice themselves without being shut down by toss saying " well jjakji can do it" . Why is it safe to say that, when the statistics consistently show that Terran stays ahead of Protoss in the TvP win percentage for tournaments and the highest level of play? And as far as generic ladder goes: Terran walls off, Terran 1/1/1s, Terran can go ahead and end the game early (how many hardcore macro late games are you going to see from bronze and silver players? how many below the level of master league properly represent the true strength of each race?). Quite frankly, I'd like to see Terrans have trouble *for one decent period of time* (and by that I mean a 3-4 month span of ~45% win ratios in both TvZ and TvP), so they know what Protoss and Zerg have had to go through several times, but this isn't it yet. Is it a sin for a round of 8 in the GSL to not be half-Terran? Or a symbol that we may be nearing some sort of actual balance? | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
Brings a smile to my face. | ||
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