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On January 30 2012 13:41 CEPEHDREI wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 13:39 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 13:37 CEPEHDREI wrote:
Wasnt Stephano the one who delayed this tournament himself by letting Illusion wait? No. He got administrative leave to have dinner. Organizers then failed to notify Illusion haha they'd let him eat and he goes offline for the finals? thats classy.
And eating and sleeping are not human?
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On January 30 2012 13:34 draumr wrote:
I'm honestly surprised people are siding with Stephano at all on this one. ONOG made the correct decision in my opinion, Stephano fucked the finals up for them. He shouldn't have played if he didn't expect to be able to do the finals, it wasn't like it was a secret format or anything. He knew that the finals would be late for him, and he'd likely be tired when they were played. You don't blame the organizers for the timeslot, you blame the player who had participated in a tournament when he knew it didn't fit his schedule very well. He fucked up, he deserves punishment. You can make all the excuses in the world for him, in the end he bowed out of a FINALS, not some meaningless game, the final game of the tournament.
I really have nothing else to say, ONOG ignore the people defending Stephano, you made the correct choice. I hope in the future your tournaments will go without inconsiderate people hurting you guys, and I enjoyed the parts of the cast I tuned into.
What if one of them had Internet problems? Take away their victories and already earned prize money?
It not about the fact that Stephano behaved like a child. We all agree on that. But behaving like a child doesnt give any organizers the right to "invent" new rules. Just because you dont like a player, or actions from a certain player, it doesnt give u the right to take away wins/ranking/prizemoney from games that were already played out.
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On January 30 2012 13:36 OopsOopsBaby wrote:
didn't millenium pull off the same shit when the forfeited the last game against slayers in ipl team arena?
I believe their excuse was that they were unable to field a team of five players throughout the day, and one of their players was asleep at the time of the match(?). Kind of the same either way in that it was stupid of them to sign up for a league they couldn't participate in; millenium doesn't seem very well put together as a team.
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On January 30 2012 13:42 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 13:38 s4life wrote:On January 30 2012 13:30 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 13:22 s4life wrote:On January 30 2012 13:17 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 13:03 Mr Showtime wrote:On January 30 2012 13:00 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 12:34 habbey wrote:On January 30 2012 12:29 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 12:26 habbey wrote:
[quote]
you see no difference between forfeiting in the finals after playing the tourney vs forfeiting before the tourney starts? If speaking of professionalism yourself, no there should be no difference. You can argue whether the ability to forfeit should be a principal player's right or they'd be forced to play for your pleasure with a gun held onto their head. Yes, with respect to professionalism there is a difference... If in your business you blow off a minor meeting with a boss its different than blowing off the quarterly meeting with the board. Except Stephano was under no obligation to play. He surely dissatisfied organizer and fan expectations but surely didn't misconducted in any way regarding standard tournament regulations. Do you really need it in writing? Don't go all legal over this. I have to, since people are mixing up formal and informal misbehavior. Of course I was dissappointed of not having a Stephano vs Kas finals. Of course it has damaged the event. Of course it adds into the image of Stephano being a diva. But at the end of the day it's about a player waiving a game for whatever reason. But tournament rules are a way more serious matter. How should players know when it's appropriate to forfeit or not? Up to which stage of a tournament? Finals, Semi's, round of 8,16,32,64,128? How should it be decided to burn a player or not? Will you act as judge for all running events? Or should it be clarified before a player agrees to the terms of the tournament? Is forfeiting even a fundamental right they should have? Which event format should allow forfeiting and which shouldn't? That's such a moot point.. In any sport, if any player doesn't wanna play he simply doesn't play.. what are the organizers gonna do about it? send him to jail? Still, any player pulling that kind of shit has to pay a price for it.. I hope Stephano also pays a tangible price for his unprofessional behavior. See my above post It is indeed a moot point with you, since "Still, any player pulling that kind of shit has to pay a price for it" You already have made up your mind that forfeiting should not be tolerated, and should be punishable through exception clauses. The only thing I have brought up that there might not be a definite answer to it. My personal view includes granting players the fundamental right of forfeit. Your's would be the refusal of such a right. Your twisting of my words goes beyond the pale. Professional players of course can forfeit for valid, justifiable reasons, not for being tired or not 'feeling it' mind you.. if a pro tennis player quits in the final of a tennis tournament coz he was just tired, he absolutely deserves to be dismantled by the public and the organizers -- Henin got shredded when she did that against Mauresmo. If a player quits coz he pulled a muscle that's a completely different matter. When did I suggest otherwise? And you have been ignoring a large part of my posts. I explicitly raised the question of how such judgment should be formalized? If it stays in the realm of "open to organizer's disclosure". Event A punishes player for forfeiting in round of 8. Event B doesn't punish. Event C, etc.
Oh but the rule for granting a forfeit is very simple: any forfeit that's due to an accident, or some factor that falls completely out of a player's responsibility should be allowed without punishment. Any other reason for forfeiting, including lack preparation -- as in Stephano's case -- should be reason enough to absolutely hammer the player for being unprofessional.
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On January 30 2012 13:12 mvtaylor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 13:08 Mr Showtime wrote:On January 30 2012 13:05 mvtaylor wrote:On January 30 2012 13:03 Mr Showtime wrote:On January 30 2012 13:00 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 12:34 habbey wrote:On January 30 2012 12:29 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 12:26 habbey wrote:On January 30 2012 12:24 HappyChris wrote:
The funny thing is LiquidTyler also forfeits but he didnt say any reason whatsoever but nop the TL posters got np at all with it. However when Stephano does it hole TL goes abeshit..
I seen this for so long time now it got nothing todo with what stephano did. It got everything todo that he beats players so horrible that there fans gets angry and he make so much money and people just cant accept it.
jealousy thats the word..
you see no difference between forfeiting in the finals after playing the tourney vs forfeiting before the tourney starts? If speaking of professionalism yourself, no there should be no difference. You can argue whether the ability to forfeit should be a principal player's right or they'd be forced to play for your pleasure with a gun held onto their head. Yes, with respect to professionalism there is a difference... If in your business you blow off a minor meeting with a boss its different than blowing off the quarterly meeting with the board. Except Stephano was under no obligation to play. He surely dissatisfied organizer and fan expectations but surely didn't misconducted in any way regarding standard tournament regulations. Do you really need it in writing? Don't go all legal over this. You want to fine a player for getting to the final of a tournament then going to sleep? I wish people in the thread realised that when told he could play with Kas now and have the games cast from replays he could have agreed to that, six pooled and failed four times, submitted the replays in ten minutes, gone to bed and come second in the final to Kas, taken an extra $600 and given all of you an awful final. Yes. A player who gets to the final and doesn't want to play should be fined..... why doesn't that make any sense? You didn't even defend why you disagree. You want some reasons as to why he shouldn't have been fined? As there were no rules in place from ONOG, they made this up on the spot, it's not like they signed a contract with Stephano and instead relinquished on their pre-announced prize pool. The fact they they expected Stephano to originally stay up and finish playing at 5AM his time even though he played his first game in a tournament 14 hours ago in the same day and was awake before then. As Stephano could have done far worse than just logged off, he could have also provided a bo7 final lasting about ten minutes that would under the rules ONOG were making up on the spot "legit". As Stephano met all the conditions needed to reach the final and beat all players in front of him and had this award taken away. Are those reasons good enough for you?
Good god.... read....... I didn't want reason why he WASN'T fined. I asked for reasons why he SHOULDN'T be fined. Read.
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On January 30 2012 13:50 Mr Showtime wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 13:12 mvtaylor wrote:On January 30 2012 13:08 Mr Showtime wrote:On January 30 2012 13:05 mvtaylor wrote:On January 30 2012 13:03 Mr Showtime wrote:On January 30 2012 13:00 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 12:34 habbey wrote:On January 30 2012 12:29 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 12:26 habbey wrote:On January 30 2012 12:24 HappyChris wrote:
The funny thing is LiquidTyler also forfeits but he didnt say any reason whatsoever but nop the TL posters got np at all with it. However when Stephano does it hole TL goes abeshit..
I seen this for so long time now it got nothing todo with what stephano did. It got everything todo that he beats players so horrible that there fans gets angry and he make so much money and people just cant accept it.
jealousy thats the word..
you see no difference between forfeiting in the finals after playing the tourney vs forfeiting before the tourney starts? If speaking of professionalism yourself, no there should be no difference. You can argue whether the ability to forfeit should be a principal player's right or they'd be forced to play for your pleasure with a gun held onto their head. Yes, with respect to professionalism there is a difference... If in your business you blow off a minor meeting with a boss its different than blowing off the quarterly meeting with the board. Except Stephano was under no obligation to play. He surely dissatisfied organizer and fan expectations but surely didn't misconducted in any way regarding standard tournament regulations. Do you really need it in writing? Don't go all legal over this. You want to fine a player for getting to the final of a tournament then going to sleep? I wish people in the thread realised that when told he could play with Kas now and have the games cast from replays he could have agreed to that, six pooled and failed four times, submitted the replays in ten minutes, gone to bed and come second in the final to Kas, taken an extra $600 and given all of you an awful final. Yes. A player who gets to the final and doesn't want to play should be fined..... why doesn't that make any sense? You didn't even defend why you disagree. You want some reasons as to why he shouldn't have been fined? As there were no rules in place from ONOG, they made this up on the spot, it's not like they signed a contract with Stephano and instead relinquished on their pre-announced prize pool. The fact they they expected Stephano to originally stay up and finish playing at 5AM his time even though he played his first game in a tournament 14 hours ago in the same day and was awake before then. As Stephano could have done far worse than just logged off, he could have also provided a bo7 final lasting about ten minutes that would under the rules ONOG were making up on the spot "legit". As Stephano met all the conditions needed to reach the final and beat all players in front of him and had this award taken away. Are those reasons good enough for you? Good god.... read....... I didn't want reason why he WASN'T fined. I asked for reasons why he SHOULDN'T be fined. Read.
He was already effectively fined $600, no?
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On January 30 2012 13:43 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 13:41 CEPEHDREI wrote:On January 30 2012 13:39 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 13:37 CEPEHDREI wrote:
Wasnt Stephano the one who delayed this tournament himself by letting Illusion wait? No. He got administrative leave to have dinner. Organizers then failed to notify Illusion haha they'd let him eat and he goes offline for the finals? thats classy. And eating and sleeping are not human?
As a professional gamer, Stephano had enough time to schedule his meals and sleep times around the tournaments he himself accepted to play today.. that's what professional players do.
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On January 30 2012 13:43 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 13:41 CEPEHDREI wrote:On January 30 2012 13:39 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 13:37 CEPEHDREI wrote:
Wasnt Stephano the one who delayed this tournament himself by letting Illusion wait? No. He got administrative leave to have dinner. Organizers then failed to notify Illusion haha they'd let him eat and he goes offline for the finals? thats classy. And eating and sleeping are not human?
You know I have had to stay late at work and skip lunch numerous times. Sometimes you just have to do it. Stephano shows blatant disrespect to ONOG and the fans with his actions today.
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On January 30 2012 13:51 mvtaylor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 13:50 Mr Showtime wrote:On January 30 2012 13:12 mvtaylor wrote:On January 30 2012 13:08 Mr Showtime wrote:On January 30 2012 13:05 mvtaylor wrote:On January 30 2012 13:03 Mr Showtime wrote:On January 30 2012 13:00 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 12:34 habbey wrote:On January 30 2012 12:29 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 12:26 habbey wrote:
[quote]
you see no difference between forfeiting in the finals after playing the tourney vs forfeiting before the tourney starts? If speaking of professionalism yourself, no there should be no difference. You can argue whether the ability to forfeit should be a principal player's right or they'd be forced to play for your pleasure with a gun held onto their head. Yes, with respect to professionalism there is a difference... If in your business you blow off a minor meeting with a boss its different than blowing off the quarterly meeting with the board. Except Stephano was under no obligation to play. He surely dissatisfied organizer and fan expectations but surely didn't misconducted in any way regarding standard tournament regulations. Do you really need it in writing? Don't go all legal over this. You want to fine a player for getting to the final of a tournament then going to sleep? I wish people in the thread realised that when told he could play with Kas now and have the games cast from replays he could have agreed to that, six pooled and failed four times, submitted the replays in ten minutes, gone to bed and come second in the final to Kas, taken an extra $600 and given all of you an awful final. Yes. A player who gets to the final and doesn't want to play should be fined..... why doesn't that make any sense? You didn't even defend why you disagree. You want some reasons as to why he shouldn't have been fined? As there were no rules in place from ONOG, they made this up on the spot, it's not like they signed a contract with Stephano and instead relinquished on their pre-announced prize pool. The fact they they expected Stephano to originally stay up and finish playing at 5AM his time even though he played his first game in a tournament 14 hours ago in the same day and was awake before then. As Stephano could have done far worse than just logged off, he could have also provided a bo7 final lasting about ten minutes that would under the rules ONOG were making up on the spot "legit". As Stephano met all the conditions needed to reach the final and beat all players in front of him and had this award taken away. Are those reasons good enough for you? Good god.... read....... I didn't want reason why he WASN'T fined. I asked for reasons why he SHOULDN'T be fined. Read. He was already effectively fined $600, no?
No.
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This thread is horrible. All i got to say is this:
Tyler lost 0-2 to catz in this tournament and forfeited nothign was sayd.
Idra lost 0-2 to White-ra at IPL 3 and forfeited the rest of his matches nothing was sayd.
Stephano win the semi finals at 3 AM and says he cant play anymore shitstorm.
hmm
Which countries are they from again?
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On January 30 2012 13:12 mvtaylor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 13:08 Mr Showtime wrote:On January 30 2012 13:05 mvtaylor wrote:On January 30 2012 13:03 Mr Showtime wrote:On January 30 2012 13:00 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 12:34 habbey wrote:On January 30 2012 12:29 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 12:26 habbey wrote:On January 30 2012 12:24 HappyChris wrote:
The funny thing is LiquidTyler also forfeits but he didnt say any reason whatsoever but nop the TL posters got np at all with it. However when Stephano does it hole TL goes abeshit..
I seen this for so long time now it got nothing todo with what stephano did. It got everything todo that he beats players so horrible that there fans gets angry and he make so much money and people just cant accept it.
jealousy thats the word..
you see no difference between forfeiting in the finals after playing the tourney vs forfeiting before the tourney starts? If speaking of professionalism yourself, no there should be no difference. You can argue whether the ability to forfeit should be a principal player's right or they'd be forced to play for your pleasure with a gun held onto their head. Yes, with respect to professionalism there is a difference... If in your business you blow off a minor meeting with a boss its different than blowing off the quarterly meeting with the board. Except Stephano was under no obligation to play. He surely dissatisfied organizer and fan expectations but surely didn't misconducted in any way regarding standard tournament regulations. Do you really need it in writing? Don't go all legal over this. You want to fine a player for getting to the final of a tournament then going to sleep? I wish people in the thread realised that when told he could play with Kas now and have the games cast from replays he could have agreed to that, six pooled and failed four times, submitted the replays in ten minutes, gone to bed and come second in the final to Kas, taken an extra $600 and given all of you an awful final. Yes. A player who gets to the final and doesn't want to play should be fined..... why doesn't that make any sense? You didn't even defend why you disagree. You want some reasons as to why he shouldn't have been fined? As there were no rules in place from ONOG, they made this up on the spot, it's not like they signed a contract with Stephano and instead relinquished on their pre-announced prize pool. The fact they they expected Stephano to originally stay up and finish playing at 5AM his time even though he played his first game in a tournament 14 hours ago in the same day and was awake before then. As Stephano could have done far worse than just logged off, he could have also provided a bo7 final lasting about ten minutes that would under the rules ONOG were making up on the spot "legit". As Stephano met all the conditions needed to reach the final and beat all players in front of him and had this award taken away. Are those reasons good enough for you?
They was no rule in place because its a situation that should never happen. Do you seriously expect to forefit the finals and not have any consequences? What world do you live in? Stephano knew that this tournament would run late for him. Would have been earlier if he was ready on time. He screwed over ONOG and the viewers and absolutely deserves what ONOG has ruled.
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On January 30 2012 13:57 HappyChris wrote:
This thread is horrible. All i got to say is this:
Tyler lost 0-2 to catz in this tournament and forfeited nothign was sayd.
Idra lost 0-2 to White-ra at IPL 3 and forfeited the rest of his matches nothing was sayd.
Stephano win the semi finals at 3 AM and says he cant play anymore shitstorm.
hmm
Which countries are they from again?
Tyler wasn't in a position to win money. There was a shit storm when Idra forefitted and doing so he knew he would not be getting money for the group stage. Stephano should know forefitting the finals match is going to cause him to lose money.
And its SAID.
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On January 30 2012 13:57 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 13:12 mvtaylor wrote:On January 30 2012 13:08 Mr Showtime wrote:On January 30 2012 13:05 mvtaylor wrote:On January 30 2012 13:03 Mr Showtime wrote:On January 30 2012 13:00 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 12:34 habbey wrote:On January 30 2012 12:29 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 12:26 habbey wrote:On January 30 2012 12:24 HappyChris wrote:
The funny thing is LiquidTyler also forfeits but he didnt say any reason whatsoever but nop the TL posters got np at all with it. However when Stephano does it hole TL goes abeshit..
I seen this for so long time now it got nothing todo with what stephano did. It got everything todo that he beats players so horrible that there fans gets angry and he make so much money and people just cant accept it.
jealousy thats the word..
you see no difference between forfeiting in the finals after playing the tourney vs forfeiting before the tourney starts? If speaking of professionalism yourself, no there should be no difference. You can argue whether the ability to forfeit should be a principal player's right or they'd be forced to play for your pleasure with a gun held onto their head. Yes, with respect to professionalism there is a difference... If in your business you blow off a minor meeting with a boss its different than blowing off the quarterly meeting with the board. Except Stephano was under no obligation to play. He surely dissatisfied organizer and fan expectations but surely didn't misconducted in any way regarding standard tournament regulations. Do you really need it in writing? Don't go all legal over this. You want to fine a player for getting to the final of a tournament then going to sleep? I wish people in the thread realised that when told he could play with Kas now and have the games cast from replays he could have agreed to that, six pooled and failed four times, submitted the replays in ten minutes, gone to bed and come second in the final to Kas, taken an extra $600 and given all of you an awful final. Yes. A player who gets to the final and doesn't want to play should be fined..... why doesn't that make any sense? You didn't even defend why you disagree. You want some reasons as to why he shouldn't have been fined? As there were no rules in place from ONOG, they made this up on the spot, it's not like they signed a contract with Stephano and instead relinquished on their pre-announced prize pool. The fact they they expected Stephano to originally stay up and finish playing at 5AM his time even though he played his first game in a tournament 14 hours ago in the same day and was awake before then. As Stephano could have done far worse than just logged off, he could have also provided a bo7 final lasting about ten minutes that would under the rules ONOG were making up on the spot "legit". As Stephano met all the conditions needed to reach the final and beat all players in front of him and had this award taken away. Are those reasons good enough for you? They was no rule in place because its a situation that should never happen. Do you seriously expect to forefit the finals and not have any consequences? What world do you live in? Stephano knew that this tournament would run late for him. Would have been earlier if he was ready on time. He screwed over ONOG and the viewers and absolutely deserves what ONOG has ruled.
Maybe you should buy a gun and go shot him for the atrocities he has done to the sc2 scene
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On January 30 2012 13:50 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 13:42 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 13:38 s4life wrote:On January 30 2012 13:30 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 13:22 s4life wrote:On January 30 2012 13:17 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 13:03 Mr Showtime wrote:On January 30 2012 13:00 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 12:34 habbey wrote:On January 30 2012 12:29 rotegirte wrote:
[quote]
If speaking of professionalism yourself, no there should be no difference. You can argue whether the ability to forfeit should be a principal player's right or they'd be forced to play for your pleasure with a gun held onto their head. Yes, with respect to professionalism there is a difference... If in your business you blow off a minor meeting with a boss its different than blowing off the quarterly meeting with the board. Except Stephano was under no obligation to play. He surely dissatisfied organizer and fan expectations but surely didn't misconducted in any way regarding standard tournament regulations. Do you really need it in writing? Don't go all legal over this. I have to, since people are mixing up formal and informal misbehavior. Of course I was dissappointed of not having a Stephano vs Kas finals. Of course it has damaged the event. Of course it adds into the image of Stephano being a diva. But at the end of the day it's about a player waiving a game for whatever reason. But tournament rules are a way more serious matter. How should players know when it's appropriate to forfeit or not? Up to which stage of a tournament? Finals, Semi's, round of 8,16,32,64,128? How should it be decided to burn a player or not? Will you act as judge for all running events? Or should it be clarified before a player agrees to the terms of the tournament? Is forfeiting even a fundamental right they should have? Which event format should allow forfeiting and which shouldn't? That's such a moot point.. In any sport, if any player doesn't wanna play he simply doesn't play.. what are the organizers gonna do about it? send him to jail? Still, any player pulling that kind of shit has to pay a price for it.. I hope Stephano also pays a tangible price for his unprofessional behavior. See my above post It is indeed a moot point with you, since "Still, any player pulling that kind of shit has to pay a price for it" You already have made up your mind that forfeiting should not be tolerated, and should be punishable through exception clauses. The only thing I have brought up that there might not be a definite answer to it. My personal view includes granting players the fundamental right of forfeit. Your's would be the refusal of such a right. Your twisting of my words goes beyond the pale. Professional players of course can forfeit for valid, justifiable reasons, not for being tired or not 'feeling it' mind you.. if a pro tennis player quits in the final of a tennis tournament coz he was just tired, he absolutely deserves to be dismantled by the public and the organizers -- Henin got shredded when she did that against Mauresmo. If a player quits coz he pulled a muscle that's a completely different matter. When did I suggest otherwise? And you have been ignoring a large part of my posts. I explicitly raised the question of how such judgment should be formalized? If it stays in the realm of "open to organizer's disclosure". Event A punishes player for forfeiting in round of 8. Event B doesn't punish. Event C, etc. Oh but the rule for granting a forfeit is very simple: any forfeit that's due to an accident, or some factor that falls completely out of a player's responsibility should be allowed without punishment. Any other reason for forfeiting, including lack preparation -- as in Stephano's case -- should be reason enough to absolutely hammer the player for being unprofessional.
That's a fair ground of discussion. Mind you, not everybody share's the same. I take it, your opinion is that the majority of forfeits of past MLG should have been punished with stripping of earned points up to that point?
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On January 30 2012 13:57 HappyChris wrote:
This thread is horrible. All i got to say is this:
Tyler lost 0-2 to catz in this tournament and forfeited nothign was sayd.
Idra lost 0-2 to White-ra at IPL 3 and forfeited the rest of his matches nothing was sayd.
Stephano win the semi finals at 3 AM and says he cant play anymore shitstorm.
hmm
Which countries are they from again?
There's a huge difference between forfeiting in group play vs. the finals.
In ascending order of least acceptable behavior it would be IdrA, Tyler, then Stephano with Stephano far ahead of the other two.
That said, you make a good point. Something should have come out of the other 2 players forfeiting matches. Though in IdrA defense, those group matches were essentially meaningless. Poor tournament structure.
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Crazy situation....I'ma blog about it soon. Had fun obsing all the games for the stream. ONOG is amazing. <3
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Either Stephano knew that he would be penalised and left knowing so, which would make his decision perfectly reasonable and professional. Or he didn't know he would be penalised and ONOG is simply lashing out at him, being unprofessional and kind of failing their role as the tournament organisers to reward their participants for winning games.
No, I'm not trying to defend Stephano or attack ONOG, I'm just saying it as it is. Yes, I'm disappointed that I didn't get to see a Kas-Stephano finals but that doesn't mean that I should get upset and start lashing out at him.
For all those saying that Stephano is being "unprofessional", you might as well be saying "Mommy! Stephano broke my feelings!" because it is either a case where everybody was being professional, or ONOG wasn't.
No, I'm not saying that you should like what Stephano did, just accept it and if you really think that he shouldn't have done so then you don't have to support him. Simple as that. Don't start crying and whining (and, to be honest, bitching) over it.
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On January 30 2012 13:57 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 13:12 mvtaylor wrote:On January 30 2012 13:08 Mr Showtime wrote:On January 30 2012 13:05 mvtaylor wrote:On January 30 2012 13:03 Mr Showtime wrote:On January 30 2012 13:00 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 12:34 habbey wrote:On January 30 2012 12:29 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 12:26 habbey wrote:On January 30 2012 12:24 HappyChris wrote:
The funny thing is LiquidTyler also forfeits but he didnt say any reason whatsoever but nop the TL posters got np at all with it. However when Stephano does it hole TL goes abeshit..
I seen this for so long time now it got nothing todo with what stephano did. It got everything todo that he beats players so horrible that there fans gets angry and he make so much money and people just cant accept it.
jealousy thats the word..
you see no difference between forfeiting in the finals after playing the tourney vs forfeiting before the tourney starts? If speaking of professionalism yourself, no there should be no difference. You can argue whether the ability to forfeit should be a principal player's right or they'd be forced to play for your pleasure with a gun held onto their head. Yes, with respect to professionalism there is a difference... If in your business you blow off a minor meeting with a boss its different than blowing off the quarterly meeting with the board. Except Stephano was under no obligation to play. He surely dissatisfied organizer and fan expectations but surely didn't misconducted in any way regarding standard tournament regulations. Do you really need it in writing? Don't go all legal over this. You want to fine a player for getting to the final of a tournament then going to sleep? I wish people in the thread realised that when told he could play with Kas now and have the games cast from replays he could have agreed to that, six pooled and failed four times, submitted the replays in ten minutes, gone to bed and come second in the final to Kas, taken an extra $600 and given all of you an awful final. Yes. A player who gets to the final and doesn't want to play should be fined..... why doesn't that make any sense? You didn't even defend why you disagree. You want some reasons as to why he shouldn't have been fined? As there were no rules in place from ONOG, they made this up on the spot, it's not like they signed a contract with Stephano and instead relinquished on their pre-announced prize pool. The fact they they expected Stephano to originally stay up and finish playing at 5AM his time even though he played his first game in a tournament 14 hours ago in the same day and was awake before then. As Stephano could have done far worse than just logged off, he could have also provided a bo7 final lasting about ten minutes that would under the rules ONOG were making up on the spot "legit". As Stephano met all the conditions needed to reach the final and beat all players in front of him and had this award taken away. Are those reasons good enough for you? They was no rule in place because its a situation that should never happen. Do you seriously expect to forefit the finals and not have any consequences? What world do you live in? Stephano knew that this tournament would run late for him. Would have been earlier if he was ready on time. He screwed over ONOG and the viewers and absolutely deserves what ONOG has ruled.
So you are saying that when ONOG invited him to play in the tournament nearly three weeks ago they told him that the finals would be finished at 5AM his time?
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On January 30 2012 13:50 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 13:42 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 13:38 s4life wrote:On January 30 2012 13:30 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 13:22 s4life wrote:On January 30 2012 13:17 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 13:03 Mr Showtime wrote:On January 30 2012 13:00 rotegirte wrote:On January 30 2012 12:34 habbey wrote:On January 30 2012 12:29 rotegirte wrote:
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If speaking of professionalism yourself, no there should be no difference. You can argue whether the ability to forfeit should be a principal player's right or they'd be forced to play for your pleasure with a gun held onto their head. Yes, with respect to professionalism there is a difference... If in your business you blow off a minor meeting with a boss its different than blowing off the quarterly meeting with the board. Except Stephano was under no obligation to play. He surely dissatisfied organizer and fan expectations but surely didn't misconducted in any way regarding standard tournament regulations. Do you really need it in writing? Don't go all legal over this. I have to, since people are mixing up formal and informal misbehavior. Of course I was dissappointed of not having a Stephano vs Kas finals. Of course it has damaged the event. Of course it adds into the image of Stephano being a diva. But at the end of the day it's about a player waiving a game for whatever reason. But tournament rules are a way more serious matter. How should players know when it's appropriate to forfeit or not? Up to which stage of a tournament? Finals, Semi's, round of 8,16,32,64,128? How should it be decided to burn a player or not? Will you act as judge for all running events? Or should it be clarified before a player agrees to the terms of the tournament? Is forfeiting even a fundamental right they should have? Which event format should allow forfeiting and which shouldn't? That's such a moot point.. In any sport, if any player doesn't wanna play he simply doesn't play.. what are the organizers gonna do about it? send him to jail? Still, any player pulling that kind of shit has to pay a price for it.. I hope Stephano also pays a tangible price for his unprofessional behavior. See my above post It is indeed a moot point with you, since "Still, any player pulling that kind of shit has to pay a price for it" You already have made up your mind that forfeiting should not be tolerated, and should be punishable through exception clauses. The only thing I have brought up that there might not be a definite answer to it. My personal view includes granting players the fundamental right of forfeit. Your's would be the refusal of such a right. Your twisting of my words goes beyond the pale. Professional players of course can forfeit for valid, justifiable reasons, not for being tired or not 'feeling it' mind you.. if a pro tennis player quits in the final of a tennis tournament coz he was just tired, he absolutely deserves to be dismantled by the public and the organizers -- Henin got shredded when she did that against Mauresmo. If a player quits coz he pulled a muscle that's a completely different matter. When did I suggest otherwise? And you have been ignoring a large part of my posts. I explicitly raised the question of how such judgment should be formalized? If it stays in the realm of "open to organizer's disclosure". Event A punishes player for forfeiting in round of 8. Event B doesn't punish. Event C, etc. Oh but the rule for granting a forfeit is very simple: any forfeit that's due to an accident, or some factor that falls completely out of a player's responsibility should be allowed without punishment. Any other reason for forfeiting, including lack preparation -- as in Stephano's case -- should be reason enough to absolutely hammer the player for being unprofessional.
Ok so stephano just plugs the internet cable next time and says the internet went down. Very simple. Just think a bit please. U cant categorize the "forfeits" into "good" and "bad" ones. Either its allowed or not.
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On January 30 2012 13:59 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 13:57 HappyChris wrote:
This thread is horrible. All i got to say is this:
Tyler lost 0-2 to catz in this tournament and forfeited nothign was sayd.
Idra lost 0-2 to White-ra at IPL 3 and forfeited the rest of his matches nothing was sayd.
Stephano win the semi finals at 3 AM and says he cant play anymore shitstorm.
hmm
Which countries are they from again?
Tyler wasn't in a position to win money. There was a shit storm when Idra forefitted and doing so he knew he would not be getting money for the group stage. Stephano should know forefitting the finals match is going to cause him to lose money. And its SAID.
You've missed the point. It's not about the money. It's about Stephano embarrassing the tournament these guys worked so hard to put on.
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EPT
