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On December 24 2011 00:09 AxionSteel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 23:37 SeaSwift wrote:On December 23 2011 23:28 Eppa! wrote:On December 23 2011 23:25 awesomoecalypse wrote:Parting probably has the best PvT of all toss players. Sage probably has the best PvZ (at least in practice). Out of all protoss players he probably has the best chance of winning codeS. uh, MC? It's look like he's got his form back lately, and MC on his game is definitely still one of the most dangerous players in the world. I realize his "just go fucking kill the opponent" style isn't as flashy as Hero's ludicrous multitask, but damn if it isn't effective when paired with MC-level timing and mechanics. MCs PvZ isn't very good though. He the sort of player that can beat any player but his style brings a lot of variance. Since the first poster quoted said "in practice" to justify Sage's PvZ, I think it's also safe to use MC's practice here. Stephano showed on his stream that MC is just on another level, especially in practice. MC has also said that he is more confident in PvZ, because he has "figured it out". Then, DRG said in the BlizzCup interviews after he beat MC that he expected MC to win the whole thing. That considered, and after watching Oz's atrocious PvZ vs Curious (considering Oz is the closest contender to Protoss King), I think it's safe to say that MC still is the best at PvZ. MC did not have very good PvZ a short time ago. But the boss is back. /fanboy EDIT: And the poster first quoted said something about Parting having the best PvT. Considering we've seen a total of 2 PvTs with him vs other pro Terrans in which he won (and one was against TOP...), I don't think he can be considered truly up there. As far as PvT goes, MC has always been at the top, although Oz is also pretty damn high too. MC has some sick fanboys lol. His PvZ has been woeful for ages, is barely 50% in Korea, he'll need to do a lot more to convince me he has the best PvZ in Korea.
Yeah but so is everyones. At least he beat leenock and stephano, and took 2 game off DRG. Sage and Hero are all hype and lost to worse zergs, and Oz also has a 50 percent win rate so honestly tell me who's better?
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On December 24 2011 00:09 AxionSteel wrote:
MC has some sick fanboys lol.
His PvZ has been woeful for ages, is barely 50% in Korea, he'll need to do a lot more to convince me he has the best PvZ in Korea.
Fair enough not to be convinced that it's the best, but you don't 3-1 Leenock and go 2-3 vs DRG after a 2-1 lead with "woeful" PvZ.
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On December 24 2011 00:14 Olinimm wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 00:09 AxionSteel wrote:On December 23 2011 23:37 SeaSwift wrote:On December 23 2011 23:28 Eppa! wrote:On December 23 2011 23:25 awesomoecalypse wrote:Parting probably has the best PvT of all toss players. Sage probably has the best PvZ (at least in practice). Out of all protoss players he probably has the best chance of winning codeS. uh, MC? It's look like he's got his form back lately, and MC on his game is definitely still one of the most dangerous players in the world. I realize his "just go fucking kill the opponent" style isn't as flashy as Hero's ludicrous multitask, but damn if it isn't effective when paired with MC-level timing and mechanics. MCs PvZ isn't very good though. He the sort of player that can beat any player but his style brings a lot of variance. Since the first poster quoted said "in practice" to justify Sage's PvZ, I think it's also safe to use MC's practice here. Stephano showed on his stream that MC is just on another level, especially in practice. MC has also said that he is more confident in PvZ, because he has "figured it out". Then, DRG said in the BlizzCup interviews after he beat MC that he expected MC to win the whole thing. That considered, and after watching Oz's atrocious PvZ vs Curious (considering Oz is the closest contender to Protoss King), I think it's safe to say that MC still is the best at PvZ. MC did not have very good PvZ a short time ago. But the boss is back. /fanboy EDIT: And the poster first quoted said something about Parting having the best PvT. Considering we've seen a total of 2 PvTs with him vs other pro Terrans in which he won (and one was against TOP...), I don't think he can be considered truly up there. As far as PvT goes, MC has always been at the top, although Oz is also pretty damn high too. MC has some sick fanboys lol. His PvZ has been woeful for ages, is barely 50% in Korea, he'll need to do a lot more to convince me he has the best PvZ in Korea. Yeah but so is everyones. At least he beat leenock and stephano, and took 2 game off DRG. Sage and Hero are all hype and lost to worse zergs, and Oz also has a 50 percent win rate so honestly tell me who's better?
Oz is well known for terrible PvZ, but yes you're right no one stands out because it's a hard matchup and most players struggle in it, you can't really say one person is the best PvZ player out there.
On December 24 2011 00:14 SeaSwift wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 00:09 AxionSteel wrote:
MC has some sick fanboys lol.
His PvZ has been woeful for ages, is barely 50% in Korea, he'll need to do a lot more to convince me he has the best PvZ in Korea. Fair enough not to be convinced that it's the best, but you don't 3-1 Leenock and go 2-3 vs DRG after a 2-1 lead with "woeful" PvZ.
Yeah I agree he is definitely starting to come into his own lately, albeit still not the old dominant force. We'll have to see how he goes next season, should be good 
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On December 24 2011 00:05 vnlegend wrote:
Well I guess that settles that with Hero. He's not code S caliber and worse than many Korean protosses. Luckily for him he has the support to fly out to foreign events and win more prizes.
his games werent bad actually he just got hard countered twice albeit one of them could be avoided
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It's always funny how bandwagons always say "xx has the best PvT and yy has the best PvZ now". Meanwhile MC is the only one advancing lol. Hype trains always funny
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HerO still has huge nerve problems in Korea, it seems. I know it's completely subjective, but his play in foreign events just looks so much cleaner and more confident than in Korea.
To be honest, I'm glad he isn't in Code S. Code S is a different beast to Code A, and if the same thing happened to him as it did to Curious, it could crush his will to keep going. What would be the point in scraping through to Code S and then getting thrown out again immediately?
For the same reason, I'm disappointed that JYP made it through. That player has really good PvZ and PvP, but given the ongoing (albeit slowly diminishing) abundance of Terrans in Code S, JYP will have to be really lucky to get far in Code S.
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hmm i wonder who will get to pick yugioh into his group first.......
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bummed about hero 
but at least watching JYP in code s should be interesting
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On December 24 2011 00:24 power-overwhelming wrote:
It's always funny how bandwagons always say "xx has the best PvT and yy has the best PvZ now". Meanwhile MC is the only one advancing lol. Hype trains always funny
Kind of unrelated, but it always surprises me when people come out with "MC is really inconsistent". It really depends on who you compare him with - if you compare him with MVP, Leenock, Clide et al he does indeed seem streaky and inconsistent.
But people call him inconsistent when comparing him with HuK, HerO and so on. This is the HuK who will go straight from winning MLG Providence to losing to Darkforce in an EU tournament. This is the HuK who will randomly go super-aggressive against HasuObs, a really safe player, in PvP. This is the HuK who has always hovered in Code S, sometimes going Nexus first 2 games in a row against a hard counter build, and has never looked really convincing. Things like that.
So what I guess I'm going for is: yes, MC is inconsistent. But this is by no means characteristic of MC in particular, and this seems to be focussed on while there are other players at least as inconsistent who manage to escape being labelled as such.
Not a big deal, and I'm not bothered by it particularly (it makes MC's wins all the more glorious for his fans), but I find it interesting. Is it just because expectations for him are still high from his 2 time GSLs?
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Parting who was relatively unknown and beat Jakji on an online daily tournament gets called best PvT lol. When it comes to protoss, the community always throws MC off right away. Oh well since GLS no longer has BO1s then MC will take a few trophies this year.
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lololo best protoss in the world
User was warned for this post
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On December 24 2011 00:05 vnlegend wrote:
Well I guess that settles that with Hero. He's not code S caliber and worse than many Korean protosses. Luckily for him he has the support to fly out to foreign events and win more prizes.
Derp. "Well, that certainly settles it.". Way to judge off of the stupid format of the up & down matches. If it wasn't such a stupid format, he'd have a much greater chance of advancing. I have serious doubts that July and JYP would best him in a Bo3 or more.
Also, Khaldor's casting is incredibly bad. He never contributes to anything that we're not actually seeing on the main screen. He has no understanding of neither Protoss nor Terran, and is constantly predicting wrong outcomes of battles etc. And he can't seem to ever get the names right. Focus, man.
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On December 24 2011 00:16 AxionSteel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 00:14 Olinimm wrote:On December 24 2011 00:09 AxionSteel wrote:On December 23 2011 23:37 SeaSwift wrote:On December 23 2011 23:28 Eppa! wrote:On December 23 2011 23:25 awesomoecalypse wrote:Parting probably has the best PvT of all toss players. Sage probably has the best PvZ (at least in practice). Out of all protoss players he probably has the best chance of winning codeS. uh, MC? It's look like he's got his form back lately, and MC on his game is definitely still one of the most dangerous players in the world. I realize his "just go fucking kill the opponent" style isn't as flashy as Hero's ludicrous multitask, but damn if it isn't effective when paired with MC-level timing and mechanics. MCs PvZ isn't very good though. He the sort of player that can beat any player but his style brings a lot of variance. Since the first poster quoted said "in practice" to justify Sage's PvZ, I think it's also safe to use MC's practice here. Stephano showed on his stream that MC is just on another level, especially in practice. MC has also said that he is more confident in PvZ, because he has "figured it out". Then, DRG said in the BlizzCup interviews after he beat MC that he expected MC to win the whole thing. That considered, and after watching Oz's atrocious PvZ vs Curious (considering Oz is the closest contender to Protoss King), I think it's safe to say that MC still is the best at PvZ. MC did not have very good PvZ a short time ago. But the boss is back. /fanboy EDIT: And the poster first quoted said something about Parting having the best PvT. Considering we've seen a total of 2 PvTs with him vs other pro Terrans in which he won (and one was against TOP...), I don't think he can be considered truly up there. As far as PvT goes, MC has always been at the top, although Oz is also pretty damn high too. MC has some sick fanboys lol. His PvZ has been woeful for ages, is barely 50% in Korea, he'll need to do a lot more to convince me he has the best PvZ in Korea. Yeah but so is everyones. At least he beat leenock and stephano, and took 2 game off DRG. Sage and Hero are all hype and lost to worse zergs, and Oz also has a 50 percent win rate so honestly tell me who's better? Oz is well known for terrible PvZ, but yes you're right no one stands out because it's a hard matchup and most players struggle in it, you can't really say one person is the best PvZ player out there.
No he's not. Where do you people come up with this shit? He's currently at 50% win rate in PvZ. He was 7-3 before losing 4 straight to Curious who is a ZvP BEAST. Curious is on a 12 game ZvP winning streak against the likes of Sage and Creator. Anyway, back to Oz. He has beaten Coca (another ZvP beast) in a BoX series. That accomplishment alone should be enough to say that Oz's PvZ isn't "terrible."
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United States15275 Posts
On December 24 2011 00:59 Dauntless wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 00:05 vnlegend wrote:
Well I guess that settles that with Hero. He's not code S caliber and worse than many Korean protosses. Luckily for him he has the support to fly out to foreign events and win more prizes. Derp. "Well, that certainly settles it.". Way to judge off of the stupid format of the up & down matches. If it wasn't such a stupid format, he'd have a much greater chance of advancing. I have serious doubts that July and JYP would best him in a Bo3 or more. Also, Khaldor's casting is incredibly bad. He never contributes to anything that we're not actually seeing on the main screen. He has no understanding of neither Protoss nor Terran, and is constantly predicting wrong outcomes of battles etc. And he can't seem to ever get the names right. Focus, man.
Hero wouldn't be in Up-and-Downs if he was so magically proficient in BO3s. If he didn't do that hasty timing push against July he would probably be Code S.
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On December 24 2011 00:27 SeaSwift wrote:
HerO still has huge nerve problems in Korea, it seems. I know it's completely subjective, but his play in foreign events just looks so much cleaner and more confident than in Korea.
it's because of the players that he is up against
korean code a players are a LOT better than almost every foreigner out there (arguable but this is imo)
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On December 24 2011 01:05 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 00:59 Dauntless wrote:On December 24 2011 00:05 vnlegend wrote:
Well I guess that settles that with Hero. He's not code S caliber and worse than many Korean protosses. Luckily for him he has the support to fly out to foreign events and win more prizes. Derp. "Well, that certainly settles it.". Way to judge off of the stupid format of the up & down matches. If it wasn't such a stupid format, he'd have a much greater chance of advancing. I have serious doubts that July and JYP would best him in a Bo3 or more. Also, Khaldor's casting is incredibly bad. He never contributes to anything that we're not actually seeing on the main screen. He has no understanding of neither Protoss nor Terran, and is constantly predicting wrong outcomes of battles etc. And he can't seem to ever get the names right. Focus, man. Hero wouldn't be in Up-and-Downs if he was so magically proficient in BO3s. If he didn't do that hasty timing push against July he would probably be Code S.
Magically... lol. I might be wrong, but I think he was suffering from jet lag when he was playing his matches vs asd. And my statement still stands, I think he'd win a bo3 vs both July and JYP, just because he's a better player, and anyone can win a bo1.
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oh man, hero with the stephano syndrome. no no, not the USA USA USA thing, the whole "everyone thinks i'm going to win everything but actually i'm pretty average in terms of pro-gamer"
he still needs more time to mature, and maybe he'll never get there like so many others. the fact is tho, i don't want to hear about how awesome hero is or how the formats screwed him or anything unreasonable like that, any more than i want to hear about clide or nestea in unreasonable contexts. It just makes me want to wish the player bad luck, is that wrong?
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On December 24 2011 00:59 Dauntless wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 00:05 vnlegend wrote:
Well I guess that settles that with Hero. He's not code S caliber and worse than many Korean protosses. Luckily for him he has the support to fly out to foreign events and win more prizes. Derp. "Well, that certainly settles it.". Way to judge off of the stupid format of the up & down matches. If it wasn't such a stupid format, he'd have a much greater chance of advancing. I have serious doubts that July and JYP would best him in a Bo3 or more. Also, Khaldor's casting is incredibly bad. He never contributes to anything that we're not actually seeing on the main screen. He has no understanding of neither Protoss nor Terran, and is constantly predicting wrong outcomes of battles etc. And he can't seem to ever get the names right. Focus, man.
Hero is 15-26 in Korean matches-- a 36% winrate. There's certainly more to judge off of than "the stupid format of the up & down matches." Even in the international scene he performs rather mediocre vs top GSL koreans and he struggles even with Puma-- another foreign tournament hero.
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Anyone know how many SlayerS are in Code S now?
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People only bash MC because we've all come to expect a lot from him. The truth is that at his worst, he's no worse than any other protoss, and at his best, he's the absolutely best protoss around. All the up and coming protoss hopes have failed so far, no one has managed to make a significant splash in the scene.
Only protoss close to MC right now is Oz, and he's as inconsistent, if not more, than MC. I have my hopes up for Parting and Brown, but we'll see, I won't ride the hype train because protoss has consistently failed to respond to the hype.
Hero, Alicia, JYP, Sage, Squirtle, Oz and probably more I'm missing have all been signaled as the next generation of top protoss and none of them have truly demonstrated being able to fight at the very top.
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EPT
