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On December 24 2011 23:50 Zanno wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 22:07 msjakofsky wrote:On December 24 2011 12:07 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 05:46 msjakofsky wrote:On December 24 2011 05:13 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 02:28 vnlegend wrote:On December 24 2011 00:59 Dauntless wrote:On December 24 2011 00:05 vnlegend wrote:
Well I guess that settles that with Hero. He's not code S caliber and worse than many Korean protosses. Luckily for him he has the support to fly out to foreign events and win more prizes. Derp. "Well, that certainly settles it.". Way to judge off of the stupid format of the up & down matches. If it wasn't such a stupid format, he'd have a much greater chance of advancing. I have serious doubts that July and JYP would best him in a Bo3 or more. Also, Khaldor's casting is incredibly bad. He never contributes to anything that we're not actually seeing on the main screen. He has no understanding of neither Protoss nor Terran, and is constantly predicting wrong outcomes of battles etc. And he can't seem to ever get the names right. Focus, man. This guy conveniently forgot that Hero has been playing in the GSL for over a year in Korea and never got far in Code A or reached Code S. There's a pattern of denial here where Hero is "one of the best" despite always being eliminated by any number of random Korean pros. There are plenty of Protosses better than Hero in Korea. They just never got the chance to fly overseas and roflstomp foreigners. Any of these guys would replicate if not best Hero's overseas feats: Oz, Killer, JYP, Puzzle, Sage, Genius, Creator, Tassadar, etc. It's called being the big fish in a small pond. Oz, Killer, and Genius have all competed in foreign tournaments. None of them have replicated or bested Hero's overseas feats. heros international games played: 241, 2 gold 1 silver genius: 38- blizzcon gold oz: 36 1 silver sangho: 22 yeah, it's a fair comparison. hero is much more succesful in proportion (this was sarcasm if you didn't get it) to make a fair comparison: hero: 241, 2 gold 1 silver mc: 262, 3 gold, 4 silver, 2 bronze you see now how astounding hero's overseas feats are If you had read it properly, you would note that " chance to fly overseas" clearly indicates the discussion in context of LAN tournaments, so your numbers are severely incorrect. That also leaves Oz with zero medals. I'll grant Genius his blizzcon win - which, you forgot to note, happened wayyy back in October of 2010, where the only other korean competition was Maka, who now isn't even in code A, clearly demonstrating how that tournament ins't really reflective of high level play now. That's like claiming that Jinro is one of the best Terrans because he won an MLG in 2010. As much as I love TL/Jinro, that faulty logic just doesn't work out. Hero's very recent dreamhack win EASILY trumps Genius' achievement at blizzcon. you weren't able to really comprehend what i wrote, so i'll put it simple: hero played a lot more games than genius, oz and killer (7-10 times the games), and he won one lan where the only korean he fought was puma. thumbs up for you if you think hero is much better cuz he played in 10x as many tournaments, won one so that proves he is much better. hero played about as many games as mc and he won much less. understand now? i did count hero's fxopen gold too which is just as worthless as genius' blizzcon win. hero's not as special as you think, deal with it. about brown: i'd love to see a pvz sniper in existance. but stories about training never come true... i've heard Moon beats everyone in training, Sage is the best protoss in the world in training etc etc, none of those actually happening in tournament settings. here's a third alternate angle on HerO: in most of his foreign excursions he has struggled quite a bit against puma, who, while good, is not a Code S terran yet even if HerO did manage to skate into Code S on his pvz, a true S class terran like MVP or MMA will make him look downright silly
If you watched HerO's stream he beats ass.
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On December 25 2011 16:19 RezChi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 23:50 Zanno wrote:On December 24 2011 22:07 msjakofsky wrote:On December 24 2011 12:07 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 05:46 msjakofsky wrote:On December 24 2011 05:13 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 02:28 vnlegend wrote:On December 24 2011 00:59 Dauntless wrote:On December 24 2011 00:05 vnlegend wrote:
Well I guess that settles that with Hero. He's not code S caliber and worse than many Korean protosses. Luckily for him he has the support to fly out to foreign events and win more prizes. Derp. "Well, that certainly settles it.". Way to judge off of the stupid format of the up & down matches. If it wasn't such a stupid format, he'd have a much greater chance of advancing. I have serious doubts that July and JYP would best him in a Bo3 or more. Also, Khaldor's casting is incredibly bad. He never contributes to anything that we're not actually seeing on the main screen. He has no understanding of neither Protoss nor Terran, and is constantly predicting wrong outcomes of battles etc. And he can't seem to ever get the names right. Focus, man. This guy conveniently forgot that Hero has been playing in the GSL for over a year in Korea and never got far in Code A or reached Code S. There's a pattern of denial here where Hero is "one of the best" despite always being eliminated by any number of random Korean pros. There are plenty of Protosses better than Hero in Korea. They just never got the chance to fly overseas and roflstomp foreigners. Any of these guys would replicate if not best Hero's overseas feats: Oz, Killer, JYP, Puzzle, Sage, Genius, Creator, Tassadar, etc. It's called being the big fish in a small pond. Oz, Killer, and Genius have all competed in foreign tournaments. None of them have replicated or bested Hero's overseas feats. heros international games played: 241, 2 gold 1 silver genius: 38- blizzcon gold oz: 36 1 silver sangho: 22 yeah, it's a fair comparison. hero is much more succesful in proportion (this was sarcasm if you didn't get it) to make a fair comparison: hero: 241, 2 gold 1 silver mc: 262, 3 gold, 4 silver, 2 bronze you see now how astounding hero's overseas feats are If you had read it properly, you would note that " chance to fly overseas" clearly indicates the discussion in context of LAN tournaments, so your numbers are severely incorrect. That also leaves Oz with zero medals. I'll grant Genius his blizzcon win - which, you forgot to note, happened wayyy back in October of 2010, where the only other korean competition was Maka, who now isn't even in code A, clearly demonstrating how that tournament ins't really reflective of high level play now. That's like claiming that Jinro is one of the best Terrans because he won an MLG in 2010. As much as I love TL/Jinro, that faulty logic just doesn't work out. Hero's very recent dreamhack win EASILY trumps Genius' achievement at blizzcon. you weren't able to really comprehend what i wrote, so i'll put it simple: hero played a lot more games than genius, oz and killer (7-10 times the games), and he won one lan where the only korean he fought was puma. thumbs up for you if you think hero is much better cuz he played in 10x as many tournaments, won one so that proves he is much better. hero played about as many games as mc and he won much less. understand now? i did count hero's fxopen gold too which is just as worthless as genius' blizzcon win. hero's not as special as you think, deal with it. about brown: i'd love to see a pvz sniper in existance. but stories about training never come true... i've heard Moon beats everyone in training, Sage is the best protoss in the world in training etc etc, none of those actually happening in tournament settings. here's a third alternate angle on HerO: in most of his foreign excursions he has struggled quite a bit against puma, who, while good, is not a Code S terran yet even if HerO did manage to skate into Code S on his pvz, a true S class terran like MVP or MMA will make him look downright silly If you watched HerO's stream he beats ass.
^sure he does but he's still not code s
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On December 25 2011 11:06 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 22:07 msjakofsky wrote:On December 24 2011 12:07 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 05:46 msjakofsky wrote:On December 24 2011 05:13 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 02:28 vnlegend wrote:On December 24 2011 00:59 Dauntless wrote:On December 24 2011 00:05 vnlegend wrote:
Well I guess that settles that with Hero. He's not code S caliber and worse than many Korean protosses. Luckily for him he has the support to fly out to foreign events and win more prizes. Derp. "Well, that certainly settles it.". Way to judge off of the stupid format of the up & down matches. If it wasn't such a stupid format, he'd have a much greater chance of advancing. I have serious doubts that July and JYP would best him in a Bo3 or more. Also, Khaldor's casting is incredibly bad. He never contributes to anything that we're not actually seeing on the main screen. He has no understanding of neither Protoss nor Terran, and is constantly predicting wrong outcomes of battles etc. And he can't seem to ever get the names right. Focus, man. This guy conveniently forgot that Hero has been playing in the GSL for over a year in Korea and never got far in Code A or reached Code S. There's a pattern of denial here where Hero is "one of the best" despite always being eliminated by any number of random Korean pros. There are plenty of Protosses better than Hero in Korea. They just never got the chance to fly overseas and roflstomp foreigners. Any of these guys would replicate if not best Hero's overseas feats: Oz, Killer, JYP, Puzzle, Sage, Genius, Creator, Tassadar, etc. It's called being the big fish in a small pond. Oz, Killer, and Genius have all competed in foreign tournaments. None of them have replicated or bested Hero's overseas feats. heros international games played: 241, 2 gold 1 silver genius: 38- blizzcon gold oz: 36 1 silver sangho: 22 yeah, it's a fair comparison. hero is much more succesful in proportion (this was sarcasm if you didn't get it) to make a fair comparison: hero: 241, 2 gold 1 silver mc: 262, 3 gold, 4 silver, 2 bronze you see now how astounding hero's overseas feats are If you had read it properly, you would note that " chance to fly overseas" clearly indicates the discussion in context of LAN tournaments, so your numbers are severely incorrect. That also leaves Oz with zero medals. I'll grant Genius his blizzcon win - which, you forgot to note, happened wayyy back in October of 2010, where the only other korean competition was Maka, who now isn't even in code A, clearly demonstrating how that tournament ins't really reflective of high level play now. That's like claiming that Jinro is one of the best Terrans because he won an MLG in 2010. As much as I love TL/Jinro, that faulty logic just doesn't work out. Hero's very recent dreamhack win EASILY trumps Genius' achievement at blizzcon. you weren't able to really comprehend what i wrote, so i'll put it simple: hero played a lot more games than genius, oz and killer (7-10 times the games), and he won one lan where the only korean he fought was puma. thumbs up for you if you think hero is much better cuz he played in 10x as many tournaments, won one so that proves he is much better. hero played about as many games as mc and he won much less. understand now? i did count hero's fxopen gold too which is just as worthless as genius' blizzcon win. hero's not as special as you think, deal with it. about brown: i'd love to see a pvz sniper in existance. but stories about training never come true... i've heard Moon beats everyone in training, Sage is the best protoss in the world in training etc etc, none of those actually happening in tournament settings. Your ego is getting in the way of simple reason here. I'm not claiming that Hero is the best - however, it's very clear that has a better performance in the foreign scene than these other Korean tosses that you mention. I would consider his results equivalent to MC's. It's also strange that you claim that MC has attended less foreign LANs - MC has either attended the same amount, or even more foreign LAN tournaments than Hero [MC started going to MLGs before Hero, and also attended multiple dreamhacks]. You can't claim that "drag X korean protoss in GSL abroad and he'll do better" since your own empirical examples fail, as Oz, Killer, etc. have attended notable foreign tournaments without any significant wins. I understand your point about wins in proportion to number of tournaments attended, but as I pointed out previously, your argument rests on a tremendous logical fallacy. LAN =/= online tournaments, and not all LANs are equal [ie, Blizzcon of 2010 is a far cry from competition today]. I don't care if you included Hero's FXOpen win, because it's obvious that one gold is not equivalent to another gold. Hero beating puma is actually quite significant, seeing as how your own comparison to MC demonstrates that MC himself was never able to best Puma even once in multiple final rounds.
dude you can't read. you shouldn't try to argue without learning to read first.
i didn't write anything like: "you claim that MC has attended less foreign LANs" or "drag X korean protoss in GSL abroad and he'll do better" you're arguing with your own imagination here.
if you consider their results equivalent you're simply stupid.
User was warned for this post
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37025 Posts
On December 25 2011 22:28 msjakofsky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 11:06 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 22:07 msjakofsky wrote:On December 24 2011 12:07 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 05:46 msjakofsky wrote:On December 24 2011 05:13 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 02:28 vnlegend wrote:On December 24 2011 00:59 Dauntless wrote:On December 24 2011 00:05 vnlegend wrote:
Well I guess that settles that with Hero. He's not code S caliber and worse than many Korean protosses. Luckily for him he has the support to fly out to foreign events and win more prizes. Derp. "Well, that certainly settles it.". Way to judge off of the stupid format of the up & down matches. If it wasn't such a stupid format, he'd have a much greater chance of advancing. I have serious doubts that July and JYP would best him in a Bo3 or more. Also, Khaldor's casting is incredibly bad. He never contributes to anything that we're not actually seeing on the main screen. He has no understanding of neither Protoss nor Terran, and is constantly predicting wrong outcomes of battles etc. And he can't seem to ever get the names right. Focus, man. This guy conveniently forgot that Hero has been playing in the GSL for over a year in Korea and never got far in Code A or reached Code S. There's a pattern of denial here where Hero is "one of the best" despite always being eliminated by any number of random Korean pros. There are plenty of Protosses better than Hero in Korea. They just never got the chance to fly overseas and roflstomp foreigners. Any of these guys would replicate if not best Hero's overseas feats: Oz, Killer, JYP, Puzzle, Sage, Genius, Creator, Tassadar, etc. It's called being the big fish in a small pond. Oz, Killer, and Genius have all competed in foreign tournaments. None of them have replicated or bested Hero's overseas feats. heros international games played: 241, 2 gold 1 silver genius: 38- blizzcon gold oz: 36 1 silver sangho: 22 yeah, it's a fair comparison. hero is much more succesful in proportion (this was sarcasm if you didn't get it) to make a fair comparison: hero: 241, 2 gold 1 silver mc: 262, 3 gold, 4 silver, 2 bronze you see now how astounding hero's overseas feats are If you had read it properly, you would note that " chance to fly overseas" clearly indicates the discussion in context of LAN tournaments, so your numbers are severely incorrect. That also leaves Oz with zero medals. I'll grant Genius his blizzcon win - which, you forgot to note, happened wayyy back in October of 2010, where the only other korean competition was Maka, who now isn't even in code A, clearly demonstrating how that tournament ins't really reflective of high level play now. That's like claiming that Jinro is one of the best Terrans because he won an MLG in 2010. As much as I love TL/Jinro, that faulty logic just doesn't work out. Hero's very recent dreamhack win EASILY trumps Genius' achievement at blizzcon. you weren't able to really comprehend what i wrote, so i'll put it simple: hero played a lot more games than genius, oz and killer (7-10 times the games), and he won one lan where the only korean he fought was puma. thumbs up for you if you think hero is much better cuz he played in 10x as many tournaments, won one so that proves he is much better. hero played about as many games as mc and he won much less. understand now? i did count hero's fxopen gold too which is just as worthless as genius' blizzcon win. hero's not as special as you think, deal with it. about brown: i'd love to see a pvz sniper in existance. but stories about training never come true... i've heard Moon beats everyone in training, Sage is the best protoss in the world in training etc etc, none of those actually happening in tournament settings. Your ego is getting in the way of simple reason here. I'm not claiming that Hero is the best - however, it's very clear that has a better performance in the foreign scene than these other Korean tosses that you mention. I would consider his results equivalent to MC's. It's also strange that you claim that MC has attended less foreign LANs - MC has either attended the same amount, or even more foreign LAN tournaments than Hero [MC started going to MLGs before Hero, and also attended multiple dreamhacks]. You can't claim that "drag X korean protoss in GSL abroad and he'll do better" since your own empirical examples fail, as Oz, Killer, etc. have attended notable foreign tournaments without any significant wins. I understand your point about wins in proportion to number of tournaments attended, but as I pointed out previously, your argument rests on a tremendous logical fallacy. LAN =/= online tournaments, and not all LANs are equal [ie, Blizzcon of 2010 is a far cry from competition today]. I don't care if you included Hero's FXOpen win, because it's obvious that one gold is not equivalent to another gold. Hero beating puma is actually quite significant, seeing as how your own comparison to MC demonstrates that MC himself was never able to best Puma even once in multiple final rounds. dude you can't read. you shouldn't try to argue without learning to read first. i didn't write anything like: "you claim that MC has attended less foreign LANs" or "drag X korean protoss in GSL abroad and he'll do better" you're arguing with your own imagination here. if you consider their results equivalent you're simply stupid.
Stop this argument right now. Like right now. Neither of you are getting to the other, just stop it before someone goes too far
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On December 25 2011 15:34 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 11:57 tdt wrote:On December 25 2011 11:06 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 22:07 msjakofsky wrote:On December 24 2011 12:07 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 05:46 msjakofsky wrote:On December 24 2011 05:13 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 02:28 vnlegend wrote:On December 24 2011 00:59 Dauntless wrote:On December 24 2011 00:05 vnlegend wrote:
Well I guess that settles that with Hero. He's not code S caliber and worse than many Korean protosses. Luckily for him he has the support to fly out to foreign events and win more prizes. Derp. "Well, that certainly settles it.". Way to judge off of the stupid format of the up & down matches. If it wasn't such a stupid format, he'd have a much greater chance of advancing. I have serious doubts that July and JYP would best him in a Bo3 or more. Also, Khaldor's casting is incredibly bad. He never contributes to anything that we're not actually seeing on the main screen. He has no understanding of neither Protoss nor Terran, and is constantly predicting wrong outcomes of battles etc. And he can't seem to ever get the names right. Focus, man. This guy conveniently forgot that Hero has been playing in the GSL for over a year in Korea and never got far in Code A or reached Code S. There's a pattern of denial here where Hero is "one of the best" despite always being eliminated by any number of random Korean pros. There are plenty of Protosses better than Hero in Korea. They just never got the chance to fly overseas and roflstomp foreigners. Any of these guys would replicate if not best Hero's overseas feats: Oz, Killer, JYP, Puzzle, Sage, Genius, Creator, Tassadar, etc. It's called being the big fish in a small pond. Oz, Killer, and Genius have all competed in foreign tournaments. None of them have replicated or bested Hero's overseas feats. heros international games played: 241, 2 gold 1 silver genius: 38- blizzcon gold oz: 36 1 silver sangho: 22 yeah, it's a fair comparison. hero is much more succesful in proportion (this was sarcasm if you didn't get it) to make a fair comparison: hero: 241, 2 gold 1 silver mc: 262, 3 gold, 4 silver, 2 bronze you see now how astounding hero's overseas feats are If you had read it properly, you would note that " chance to fly overseas" clearly indicates the discussion in context of LAN tournaments, so your numbers are severely incorrect. That also leaves Oz with zero medals. I'll grant Genius his blizzcon win - which, you forgot to note, happened wayyy back in October of 2010, where the only other korean competition was Maka, who now isn't even in code A, clearly demonstrating how that tournament ins't really reflective of high level play now. That's like claiming that Jinro is one of the best Terrans because he won an MLG in 2010. As much as I love TL/Jinro, that faulty logic just doesn't work out. Hero's very recent dreamhack win EASILY trumps Genius' achievement at blizzcon. you weren't able to really comprehend what i wrote, so i'll put it simple: hero played a lot more games than genius, oz and killer (7-10 times the games), and he won one lan where the only korean he fought was puma. thumbs up for you if you think hero is much better cuz he played in 10x as many tournaments, won one so that proves he is much better. hero played about as many games as mc and he won much less. understand now? i did count hero's fxopen gold too which is just as worthless as genius' blizzcon win. hero's not as special as you think, deal with it. about brown: i'd love to see a pvz sniper in existance. but stories about training never come true... i've heard Moon beats everyone in training, Sage is the best protoss in the world in training etc etc, none of those actually happening in tournament settings. Your ego is getting in the way of simple reason here. I'm not claiming that Hero is the best - however, it's very clear that has a better performance in the foreign scene than these other Korean tosses that you mention. I would consider his results equivalent to MC's. It's also strange that you claim that MC has attended less foreign LANs - MC has either attended the same amount, or even more foreign LAN tournaments than Hero [MC started going to MLGs before Hero, and also attended multiple dreamhacks]. You can't claim that "drag X korean protoss in GSL abroad and he'll do better" since your own empirical examples fail, as Oz, Killer, etc. have attended notable foreign tournaments without any significant wins. I understand your point about wins in proportion to number of tournaments attended, but as I pointed out previously, your argument rests on a tremendous logical fallacy. LAN =/= online tournaments, and not all LANs are equal [ie, Blizzcon of 2010 is a far cry from competition today]. I don't care if you included Hero's FXOpen win, because it's obvious that one gold is not equivalent to another gold. Hero beating puma is actually quite significant, seeing as how your own comparison to MC demonstrates that MC himself was never able to best Puma even once in multiple final rounds. MC beat PuMa @ MLG Orlando and at some European tournament the same week of IEM. As far as comparing the two there is no comparison. MC is more successful both financially and tournament wise, long standing Code S and in more prestigious events. Hero's 2nd place NASL's run was made w/o koreans. The same Koreans who keep him out of Code S. I'm not disputing levels of overall skill - note that my comments are specifically in the context of results in foreign tournaments. My phrasing is probably too broad - by that, I mean major wins at tournaments [both winning a dreamhack, both taking second in NASL].
MC also won Cophenhagen and Stars War, and has like 5 other Bronze/Silver medals so how is that equal?
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when is group selection for January?
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There's a lot of up and coming protoss like JYP and YongHwa etc.
Hero is nothing special IMO, at least when you're talking about other Korean Protosses. He's winning foreign tournaments because they're foreign tournaments.
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
On December 26 2011 01:51 murtas wrote:
when is group selection for January?
For the Ro32, 2012 S1 will just have the 8 seeds (top 8 from GSL Nov) put into 8 seperate groups and then there other 24 players will be random. One day after Ro32 group stages finish, there will be group selections for Ro16 groups on Friday, January 20th.
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Then, when will we know the groups, there is any scheduled date?
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On December 26 2011 02:59 murtas wrote:
Then, when will we know the groups, there is any scheduled date?
Read the post directly above yours...
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On December 26 2011 03:44 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2011 02:59 murtas wrote:
Then, when will we know the groups, there is any scheduled date? Read the post directly above yours...
Funny how your quote actually didn't answer his question in the slightest. He wants to know the date when the Ro32 groups are published.
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On December 26 2011 03:57 ShuttingFromTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2011 03:44 ZAiNs wrote:On December 26 2011 02:59 murtas wrote:
Then, when will we know the groups, there is any scheduled date? Read the post directly above yours... Funny how your quote actually didn't answer his question in the slightest. He wants to know the date when the Ro32 groups are published.
Yes, you understand me, much <3.
I found out that Code A preliminaries are in 5&6 January, so I think i can expect the groups for Code S after that, if my memory isn't mistaken, it usually happens after preliminaries. Right?
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On December 26 2011 09:13 murtas wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2011 03:57 ShuttingFromTheSky wrote:On December 26 2011 03:44 ZAiNs wrote:On December 26 2011 02:59 murtas wrote:
Then, when will we know the groups, there is any scheduled date? Read the post directly above yours... Funny how your quote actually didn't answer his question in the slightest. He wants to know the date when the Ro32 groups are published. Yes, you understand me, much <3. I found out that Code A preliminaries are in 5&6 January, so I think i can expect the groups for Code S after that, if my memory isn't mistaken, it usually happens after preliminaries. Right?
there is no longer ANY groups for RO32. it's 1v1 match play and the winner gets to go to code S group stage. at least thats what it looks like based on the sites matchup stuff. >.>
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On December 26 2011 10:44 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2011 09:13 murtas wrote:On December 26 2011 03:57 ShuttingFromTheSky wrote:On December 26 2011 03:44 ZAiNs wrote:On December 26 2011 02:59 murtas wrote:
Then, when will we know the groups, there is any scheduled date? Read the post directly above yours... Funny how your quote actually didn't answer his question in the slightest. He wants to know the date when the Ro32 groups are published. Yes, you understand me, much <3. I found out that Code A preliminaries are in 5&6 January, so I think i can expect the groups for Code S after that, if my memory isn't mistaken, it usually happens after preliminaries. Right? there is no longer ANY groups for RO32. it's 1v1 match play and the winner gets to go to code S group stage. at least thats what it looks like based on the sites matchup stuff. >.>
Nope, there are groups for Ro32 as well.
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EPT
