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HerO is good, but nerves
CreatorPrime is good, but nerves...
MC is good, but no nerves = winwinwin!!
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NaDa should be most consistent player now, hell yeah. (following his BW record)
Also, this was fun: + Show Spoiler +
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On December 24 2011 19:31 MrMercuG wrote:
HerO is good, but nerves
CreatorPrime is good, but nerves...
MC is good, but no nerves = winwinwin!!
Actually, MC has had problems with nerves for the longest time. That's why you see him shaking the mouse and looking twitchy at the start of all his BlizzCup games and so on.
I heard that the reason why he started doing his ceremonies was to make up for his nerves, similar to Bomber vs Idra when they first met at MLG.
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On December 24 2011 12:07 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 05:46 msjakofsky wrote:On December 24 2011 05:13 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 02:28 vnlegend wrote:On December 24 2011 00:59 Dauntless wrote:On December 24 2011 00:05 vnlegend wrote:
Well I guess that settles that with Hero. He's not code S caliber and worse than many Korean protosses. Luckily for him he has the support to fly out to foreign events and win more prizes. Derp. "Well, that certainly settles it.". Way to judge off of the stupid format of the up & down matches. If it wasn't such a stupid format, he'd have a much greater chance of advancing. I have serious doubts that July and JYP would best him in a Bo3 or more. Also, Khaldor's casting is incredibly bad. He never contributes to anything that we're not actually seeing on the main screen. He has no understanding of neither Protoss nor Terran, and is constantly predicting wrong outcomes of battles etc. And he can't seem to ever get the names right. Focus, man. This guy conveniently forgot that Hero has been playing in the GSL for over a year in Korea and never got far in Code A or reached Code S. There's a pattern of denial here where Hero is "one of the best" despite always being eliminated by any number of random Korean pros. There are plenty of Protosses better than Hero in Korea. They just never got the chance to fly overseas and roflstomp foreigners. Any of these guys would replicate if not best Hero's overseas feats: Oz, Killer, JYP, Puzzle, Sage, Genius, Creator, Tassadar, etc. It's called being the big fish in a small pond. Oz, Killer, and Genius have all competed in foreign tournaments. None of them have replicated or bested Hero's overseas feats. heros international games played: 241, 2 gold 1 silver genius: 38- blizzcon gold oz: 36 1 silver sangho: 22 yeah, it's a fair comparison. hero is much more succesful in proportion (this was sarcasm if you didn't get it) to make a fair comparison: hero: 241, 2 gold 1 silver mc: 262, 3 gold, 4 silver, 2 bronze you see now how astounding hero's overseas feats are If you had read it properly, you would note that " chance to fly overseas" clearly indicates the discussion in context of LAN tournaments, so your numbers are severely incorrect. That also leaves Oz with zero medals. I'll grant Genius his blizzcon win - which, you forgot to note, happened wayyy back in October of 2010, where the only other korean competition was Maka, who now isn't even in code A, clearly demonstrating how that tournament ins't really reflective of high level play now. That's like claiming that Jinro is one of the best Terrans because he won an MLG in 2010. As much as I love TL/Jinro, that faulty logic just doesn't work out. Hero's very recent dreamhack win EASILY trumps Genius' achievement at blizzcon.
you weren't able to really comprehend what i wrote, so i'll put it simple:
hero played a lot more games than genius, oz and killer (7-10 times the games), and he won one lan where the only korean he fought was puma. thumbs up for you if you think hero is much better cuz he played in 10x as many tournaments, won one so that proves he is much better.
hero played about as many games as mc and he won much less.
understand now? i did count hero's fxopen gold too which is just as worthless as genius' blizzcon win. hero's not as special as you think, deal with it.
about brown: i'd love to see a pvz sniper in existance. but stories about training never come true... i've heard Moon beats everyone in training, Sage is the best protoss in the world in training etc etc, none of those actually happening in tournament settings.
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Heroooooooooo!!! so alkergic to code S TT Go for it next season man! You are the best player in the world:D
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On December 24 2011 22:07 msjakofsky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 12:07 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 05:46 msjakofsky wrote:On December 24 2011 05:13 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 02:28 vnlegend wrote:On December 24 2011 00:59 Dauntless wrote:On December 24 2011 00:05 vnlegend wrote:
Well I guess that settles that with Hero. He's not code S caliber and worse than many Korean protosses. Luckily for him he has the support to fly out to foreign events and win more prizes. Derp. "Well, that certainly settles it.". Way to judge off of the stupid format of the up & down matches. If it wasn't such a stupid format, he'd have a much greater chance of advancing. I have serious doubts that July and JYP would best him in a Bo3 or more. Also, Khaldor's casting is incredibly bad. He never contributes to anything that we're not actually seeing on the main screen. He has no understanding of neither Protoss nor Terran, and is constantly predicting wrong outcomes of battles etc. And he can't seem to ever get the names right. Focus, man. This guy conveniently forgot that Hero has been playing in the GSL for over a year in Korea and never got far in Code A or reached Code S. There's a pattern of denial here where Hero is "one of the best" despite always being eliminated by any number of random Korean pros. There are plenty of Protosses better than Hero in Korea. They just never got the chance to fly overseas and roflstomp foreigners. Any of these guys would replicate if not best Hero's overseas feats: Oz, Killer, JYP, Puzzle, Sage, Genius, Creator, Tassadar, etc. It's called being the big fish in a small pond. Oz, Killer, and Genius have all competed in foreign tournaments. None of them have replicated or bested Hero's overseas feats. heros international games played: 241, 2 gold 1 silver genius: 38- blizzcon gold oz: 36 1 silver sangho: 22 yeah, it's a fair comparison. hero is much more succesful in proportion (this was sarcasm if you didn't get it) to make a fair comparison: hero: 241, 2 gold 1 silver mc: 262, 3 gold, 4 silver, 2 bronze you see now how astounding hero's overseas feats are If you had read it properly, you would note that " chance to fly overseas" clearly indicates the discussion in context of LAN tournaments, so your numbers are severely incorrect. That also leaves Oz with zero medals. I'll grant Genius his blizzcon win - which, you forgot to note, happened wayyy back in October of 2010, where the only other korean competition was Maka, who now isn't even in code A, clearly demonstrating how that tournament ins't really reflective of high level play now. That's like claiming that Jinro is one of the best Terrans because he won an MLG in 2010. As much as I love TL/Jinro, that faulty logic just doesn't work out. Hero's very recent dreamhack win EASILY trumps Genius' achievement at blizzcon. you weren't able to really comprehend what i wrote, so i'll put it simple: hero played a lot more games than genius, oz and killer (7-10 times the games), and he won one lan where the only korean he fought was puma. thumbs up for you if you think hero is much better cuz he played in 10x as many tournaments, won one so that proves he is much better. hero played about as many games as mc and he won much less. understand now? i did count hero's fxopen gold too which is just as worthless as genius' blizzcon win. hero's not as special as you think, deal with it. about brown: i'd love to see a pvz sniper in existance. but stories about training never come true... i've heard Moon beats everyone in training, Sage is the best protoss in the world in training etc etc, none of those actually happening in tournament settings.
Who invited buzz killington?
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On December 24 2011 22:07 msjakofsky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 12:07 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 05:46 msjakofsky wrote:On December 24 2011 05:13 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 02:28 vnlegend wrote:On December 24 2011 00:59 Dauntless wrote:On December 24 2011 00:05 vnlegend wrote:
Well I guess that settles that with Hero. He's not code S caliber and worse than many Korean protosses. Luckily for him he has the support to fly out to foreign events and win more prizes. Derp. "Well, that certainly settles it.". Way to judge off of the stupid format of the up & down matches. If it wasn't such a stupid format, he'd have a much greater chance of advancing. I have serious doubts that July and JYP would best him in a Bo3 or more. Also, Khaldor's casting is incredibly bad. He never contributes to anything that we're not actually seeing on the main screen. He has no understanding of neither Protoss nor Terran, and is constantly predicting wrong outcomes of battles etc. And he can't seem to ever get the names right. Focus, man. This guy conveniently forgot that Hero has been playing in the GSL for over a year in Korea and never got far in Code A or reached Code S. There's a pattern of denial here where Hero is "one of the best" despite always being eliminated by any number of random Korean pros. There are plenty of Protosses better than Hero in Korea. They just never got the chance to fly overseas and roflstomp foreigners. Any of these guys would replicate if not best Hero's overseas feats: Oz, Killer, JYP, Puzzle, Sage, Genius, Creator, Tassadar, etc. It's called being the big fish in a small pond. Oz, Killer, and Genius have all competed in foreign tournaments. None of them have replicated or bested Hero's overseas feats. heros international games played: 241, 2 gold 1 silver genius: 38- blizzcon gold oz: 36 1 silver sangho: 22 yeah, it's a fair comparison. hero is much more succesful in proportion (this was sarcasm if you didn't get it) to make a fair comparison: hero: 241, 2 gold 1 silver mc: 262, 3 gold, 4 silver, 2 bronze you see now how astounding hero's overseas feats are If you had read it properly, you would note that " chance to fly overseas" clearly indicates the discussion in context of LAN tournaments, so your numbers are severely incorrect. That also leaves Oz with zero medals. I'll grant Genius his blizzcon win - which, you forgot to note, happened wayyy back in October of 2010, where the only other korean competition was Maka, who now isn't even in code A, clearly demonstrating how that tournament ins't really reflective of high level play now. That's like claiming that Jinro is one of the best Terrans because he won an MLG in 2010. As much as I love TL/Jinro, that faulty logic just doesn't work out. Hero's very recent dreamhack win EASILY trumps Genius' achievement at blizzcon. you weren't able to really comprehend what i wrote, so i'll put it simple: hero played a lot more games than genius, oz and killer (7-10 times the games), and he won one lan where the only korean he fought was puma. thumbs up for you if you think hero is much better cuz he played in 10x as many tournaments, won one so that proves he is much better. hero played about as many games as mc and he won much less. understand now? i did count hero's fxopen gold too which is just as worthless as genius' blizzcon win. hero's not as special as you think, deal with it. about brown: i'd love to see a pvz sniper in existance. but stories about training never come true... i've heard Moon beats everyone in training, Sage is the best protoss in the world in training etc etc, none of those actually happening in tournament settings.
here's a third alternate angle on HerO:
in most of his foreign excursions he has struggled quite a bit against puma, who, while good, is not a Code S terran yet
even if HerO did manage to skate into Code S on his pvz, a true S class terran like MVP or MMA will make him look downright silly
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if the GSL prelims are ever played outside Korea, Hero will dominate... until then...
also, pretty sick YUGIOH of all people got through... guess that code S money really motivates the heck out of people.
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Yugioh: Its time to duel (cue a lot of other bad Jon/Yugioh jokes)
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United States97276 Posts
On December 25 2011 01:48 CeriseCherries wrote:
Yugioh: Its time to duel (cue a lot of other bad Jon/Yugioh jokes)
Everyone in the group thought Yugioh was going to lose. MMA took all his life points. Then... Yugioh played his trap card and won the group thanks to the heart of the swarm
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Awww July almost had a reunion with Nada and Boxer
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37072 Posts
On December 25 2011 02:22 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 01:48 CeriseCherries wrote:
Yugioh: Its time to duel (cue a lot of other bad Jon/Yugioh jokes) Everyone in the group thought Yugioh was going to lose. MMA took all his life points. Then... Yugioh played his trap card and won the group thanks to the heart of the swarm
If MMA took all of his life points he can't activate his trap card at all 
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Wait how come July didn't advance? Maybe i'm reading it wrong but doesn't July have more wins than JYP?
Nevermind, i see it now. That's fucking stupid.
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On December 25 2011 09:11 LiamTheZerg wrote:
Wait how come July didn't advance? Maybe i'm reading it wrong but doesn't July have more wins than JYP?
Nevermind, i see it now. That's fucking stupid.
How exactly is a tie being broken by head-to-head stupid? Seems fair to me.
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On December 24 2011 22:07 msjakofsky wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 12:07 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 05:46 msjakofsky wrote:On December 24 2011 05:13 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 02:28 vnlegend wrote:On December 24 2011 00:59 Dauntless wrote:On December 24 2011 00:05 vnlegend wrote:
Well I guess that settles that with Hero. He's not code S caliber and worse than many Korean protosses. Luckily for him he has the support to fly out to foreign events and win more prizes. Derp. "Well, that certainly settles it.". Way to judge off of the stupid format of the up & down matches. If it wasn't such a stupid format, he'd have a much greater chance of advancing. I have serious doubts that July and JYP would best him in a Bo3 or more. Also, Khaldor's casting is incredibly bad. He never contributes to anything that we're not actually seeing on the main screen. He has no understanding of neither Protoss nor Terran, and is constantly predicting wrong outcomes of battles etc. And he can't seem to ever get the names right. Focus, man. This guy conveniently forgot that Hero has been playing in the GSL for over a year in Korea and never got far in Code A or reached Code S. There's a pattern of denial here where Hero is "one of the best" despite always being eliminated by any number of random Korean pros. There are plenty of Protosses better than Hero in Korea. They just never got the chance to fly overseas and roflstomp foreigners. Any of these guys would replicate if not best Hero's overseas feats: Oz, Killer, JYP, Puzzle, Sage, Genius, Creator, Tassadar, etc. It's called being the big fish in a small pond. Oz, Killer, and Genius have all competed in foreign tournaments. None of them have replicated or bested Hero's overseas feats. heros international games played: 241, 2 gold 1 silver genius: 38- blizzcon gold oz: 36 1 silver sangho: 22 yeah, it's a fair comparison. hero is much more succesful in proportion (this was sarcasm if you didn't get it) to make a fair comparison: hero: 241, 2 gold 1 silver mc: 262, 3 gold, 4 silver, 2 bronze you see now how astounding hero's overseas feats are If you had read it properly, you would note that " chance to fly overseas" clearly indicates the discussion in context of LAN tournaments, so your numbers are severely incorrect. That also leaves Oz with zero medals. I'll grant Genius his blizzcon win - which, you forgot to note, happened wayyy back in October of 2010, where the only other korean competition was Maka, who now isn't even in code A, clearly demonstrating how that tournament ins't really reflective of high level play now. That's like claiming that Jinro is one of the best Terrans because he won an MLG in 2010. As much as I love TL/Jinro, that faulty logic just doesn't work out. Hero's very recent dreamhack win EASILY trumps Genius' achievement at blizzcon. you weren't able to really comprehend what i wrote, so i'll put it simple: hero played a lot more games than genius, oz and killer (7-10 times the games), and he won one lan where the only korean he fought was puma. thumbs up for you if you think hero is much better cuz he played in 10x as many tournaments, won one so that proves he is much better. hero played about as many games as mc and he won much less. understand now? i did count hero's fxopen gold too which is just as worthless as genius' blizzcon win. hero's not as special as you think, deal with it. about brown: i'd love to see a pvz sniper in existance. but stories about training never come true... i've heard Moon beats everyone in training, Sage is the best protoss in the world in training etc etc, none of those actually happening in tournament settings.
Your ego is getting in the way of simple reason here. I'm not claiming that Hero is the best - however, it's very clear that has a better performance in the foreign scene than these other Korean tosses that you mention. I would consider his results equivalent to MC's. It's also strange that you claim that MC has attended less foreign LANs - MC has either attended the same amount, or even more foreign LAN tournaments than Hero [MC started going to MLGs before Hero, and also attended multiple dreamhacks]. You can't claim that "drag X korean protoss in GSL abroad and he'll do better" since your own empirical examples fail, as Oz, Killer, etc. have attended notable foreign tournaments without any significant wins.
I understand your point about wins in proportion to number of tournaments attended, but as I pointed out previously, your argument rests on a tremendous logical fallacy. LAN =/= online tournaments, and not all LANs are equal [ie, Blizzcon of 2010 is a far cry from competition today]. I don't care if you included Hero's FXOpen win, because it's obvious that one gold is not equivalent to another gold. Hero beating puma is actually quite significant, seeing as how your own comparison to MC demonstrates that MC himself was never able to best Puma even once in multiple final rounds.
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On December 25 2011 11:06 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 22:07 msjakofsky wrote:On December 24 2011 12:07 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 05:46 msjakofsky wrote:On December 24 2011 05:13 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 02:28 vnlegend wrote:On December 24 2011 00:59 Dauntless wrote:On December 24 2011 00:05 vnlegend wrote:
Well I guess that settles that with Hero. He's not code S caliber and worse than many Korean protosses. Luckily for him he has the support to fly out to foreign events and win more prizes. Derp. "Well, that certainly settles it.". Way to judge off of the stupid format of the up & down matches. If it wasn't such a stupid format, he'd have a much greater chance of advancing. I have serious doubts that July and JYP would best him in a Bo3 or more. Also, Khaldor's casting is incredibly bad. He never contributes to anything that we're not actually seeing on the main screen. He has no understanding of neither Protoss nor Terran, and is constantly predicting wrong outcomes of battles etc. And he can't seem to ever get the names right. Focus, man. This guy conveniently forgot that Hero has been playing in the GSL for over a year in Korea and never got far in Code A or reached Code S. There's a pattern of denial here where Hero is "one of the best" despite always being eliminated by any number of random Korean pros. There are plenty of Protosses better than Hero in Korea. They just never got the chance to fly overseas and roflstomp foreigners. Any of these guys would replicate if not best Hero's overseas feats: Oz, Killer, JYP, Puzzle, Sage, Genius, Creator, Tassadar, etc. It's called being the big fish in a small pond. Oz, Killer, and Genius have all competed in foreign tournaments. None of them have replicated or bested Hero's overseas feats. heros international games played: 241, 2 gold 1 silver genius: 38- blizzcon gold oz: 36 1 silver sangho: 22 yeah, it's a fair comparison. hero is much more succesful in proportion (this was sarcasm if you didn't get it) to make a fair comparison: hero: 241, 2 gold 1 silver mc: 262, 3 gold, 4 silver, 2 bronze you see now how astounding hero's overseas feats are If you had read it properly, you would note that " chance to fly overseas" clearly indicates the discussion in context of LAN tournaments, so your numbers are severely incorrect. That also leaves Oz with zero medals. I'll grant Genius his blizzcon win - which, you forgot to note, happened wayyy back in October of 2010, where the only other korean competition was Maka, who now isn't even in code A, clearly demonstrating how that tournament ins't really reflective of high level play now. That's like claiming that Jinro is one of the best Terrans because he won an MLG in 2010. As much as I love TL/Jinro, that faulty logic just doesn't work out. Hero's very recent dreamhack win EASILY trumps Genius' achievement at blizzcon. you weren't able to really comprehend what i wrote, so i'll put it simple: hero played a lot more games than genius, oz and killer (7-10 times the games), and he won one lan where the only korean he fought was puma. thumbs up for you if you think hero is much better cuz he played in 10x as many tournaments, won one so that proves he is much better. hero played about as many games as mc and he won much less. understand now? i did count hero's fxopen gold too which is just as worthless as genius' blizzcon win. hero's not as special as you think, deal with it. about brown: i'd love to see a pvz sniper in existance. but stories about training never come true... i've heard Moon beats everyone in training, Sage is the best protoss in the world in training etc etc, none of those actually happening in tournament settings. Your ego is getting in the way of simple reason here. I'm not claiming that Hero is the best - however, it's very clear that has a better performance in the foreign scene than these other Korean tosses that you mention. I would consider his results equivalent to MC's. It's also strange that you claim that MC has attended less foreign LANs - MC has either attended the same amount, or even more foreign LAN tournaments than Hero [MC started going to MLGs before Hero, and also attended multiple dreamhacks]. You can't claim that "drag X korean protoss in GSL abroad and he'll do better" since your own empirical examples fail, as Oz, Killer, etc. have attended notable foreign tournaments without any significant wins. I understand your point about wins in proportion to number of tournaments attended, but as I pointed out previously, your argument rests on a tremendous logical fallacy. LAN =/= online tournaments, and not all LANs are equal [ie, Blizzcon of 2010 is a far cry from competition today]. I don't care if you included Hero's FXOpen win, because it's obvious that one gold is not equivalent to another gold. Hero beating puma is actually quite significant, seeing as how your own comparison to MC demonstrates that MC himself was never able to best Puma even once in multiple final rounds.
MC beat PuMa @ MLG Orlando and at some European tournament the same week of IEM. As far as comparing the two there is no comparison. MC is more successful both financially and tournament wise, long standing Code S and in more prestigious events. Hero's 2nd place NASL's run was made w/o koreans. The same Koreans who keep him out of Code S.
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On December 25 2011 11:57 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 11:06 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 22:07 msjakofsky wrote:On December 24 2011 12:07 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 05:46 msjakofsky wrote:On December 24 2011 05:13 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 02:28 vnlegend wrote:On December 24 2011 00:59 Dauntless wrote:On December 24 2011 00:05 vnlegend wrote:
Well I guess that settles that with Hero. He's not code S caliber and worse than many Korean protosses. Luckily for him he has the support to fly out to foreign events and win more prizes. Derp. "Well, that certainly settles it.". Way to judge off of the stupid format of the up & down matches. If it wasn't such a stupid format, he'd have a much greater chance of advancing. I have serious doubts that July and JYP would best him in a Bo3 or more. Also, Khaldor's casting is incredibly bad. He never contributes to anything that we're not actually seeing on the main screen. He has no understanding of neither Protoss nor Terran, and is constantly predicting wrong outcomes of battles etc. And he can't seem to ever get the names right. Focus, man. This guy conveniently forgot that Hero has been playing in the GSL for over a year in Korea and never got far in Code A or reached Code S. There's a pattern of denial here where Hero is "one of the best" despite always being eliminated by any number of random Korean pros. There are plenty of Protosses better than Hero in Korea. They just never got the chance to fly overseas and roflstomp foreigners. Any of these guys would replicate if not best Hero's overseas feats: Oz, Killer, JYP, Puzzle, Sage, Genius, Creator, Tassadar, etc. It's called being the big fish in a small pond. Oz, Killer, and Genius have all competed in foreign tournaments. None of them have replicated or bested Hero's overseas feats. heros international games played: 241, 2 gold 1 silver genius: 38- blizzcon gold oz: 36 1 silver sangho: 22 yeah, it's a fair comparison. hero is much more succesful in proportion (this was sarcasm if you didn't get it) to make a fair comparison: hero: 241, 2 gold 1 silver mc: 262, 3 gold, 4 silver, 2 bronze you see now how astounding hero's overseas feats are If you had read it properly, you would note that " chance to fly overseas" clearly indicates the discussion in context of LAN tournaments, so your numbers are severely incorrect. That also leaves Oz with zero medals. I'll grant Genius his blizzcon win - which, you forgot to note, happened wayyy back in October of 2010, where the only other korean competition was Maka, who now isn't even in code A, clearly demonstrating how that tournament ins't really reflective of high level play now. That's like claiming that Jinro is one of the best Terrans because he won an MLG in 2010. As much as I love TL/Jinro, that faulty logic just doesn't work out. Hero's very recent dreamhack win EASILY trumps Genius' achievement at blizzcon. you weren't able to really comprehend what i wrote, so i'll put it simple: hero played a lot more games than genius, oz and killer (7-10 times the games), and he won one lan where the only korean he fought was puma. thumbs up for you if you think hero is much better cuz he played in 10x as many tournaments, won one so that proves he is much better. hero played about as many games as mc and he won much less. understand now? i did count hero's fxopen gold too which is just as worthless as genius' blizzcon win. hero's not as special as you think, deal with it. about brown: i'd love to see a pvz sniper in existance. but stories about training never come true... i've heard Moon beats everyone in training, Sage is the best protoss in the world in training etc etc, none of those actually happening in tournament settings. Your ego is getting in the way of simple reason here. I'm not claiming that Hero is the best - however, it's very clear that has a better performance in the foreign scene than these other Korean tosses that you mention. I would consider his results equivalent to MC's. It's also strange that you claim that MC has attended less foreign LANs - MC has either attended the same amount, or even more foreign LAN tournaments than Hero [MC started going to MLGs before Hero, and also attended multiple dreamhacks]. You can't claim that "drag X korean protoss in GSL abroad and he'll do better" since your own empirical examples fail, as Oz, Killer, etc. have attended notable foreign tournaments without any significant wins. I understand your point about wins in proportion to number of tournaments attended, but as I pointed out previously, your argument rests on a tremendous logical fallacy. LAN =/= online tournaments, and not all LANs are equal [ie, Blizzcon of 2010 is a far cry from competition today]. I don't care if you included Hero's FXOpen win, because it's obvious that one gold is not equivalent to another gold. Hero beating puma is actually quite significant, seeing as how your own comparison to MC demonstrates that MC himself was never able to best Puma even once in multiple final rounds. MC beat PuMa @ MLG Orlando and at some European tournament the same week of IEM. As far as comparing the two there is no comparison. MC is more successful both financially and tournament wise, long standing Code S and in more prestigious events. Hero's 2nd place NASL's run was made w/o koreans. The same Koreans who keep him out of Code S.
In general, I feel like Mc's performance against foreigners is as good as Hero. But Mc's performance against Korean is significantly better than Hero's. And in fact, a lot of times I feel like Mc just treat his games against foreigners like show matches.
But I feel bad for hero 2. I mean if sen and Idra can get codeS seed like that, then Hero deserves to be in codes 2. Considered how easily Hero can beat sen and Idra. They are easy opponents to Hero.
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On December 25 2011 11:57 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 11:06 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 22:07 msjakofsky wrote:On December 24 2011 12:07 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 05:46 msjakofsky wrote:On December 24 2011 05:13 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 02:28 vnlegend wrote:On December 24 2011 00:59 Dauntless wrote:On December 24 2011 00:05 vnlegend wrote:
Well I guess that settles that with Hero. He's not code S caliber and worse than many Korean protosses. Luckily for him he has the support to fly out to foreign events and win more prizes. Derp. "Well, that certainly settles it.". Way to judge off of the stupid format of the up & down matches. If it wasn't such a stupid format, he'd have a much greater chance of advancing. I have serious doubts that July and JYP would best him in a Bo3 or more. Also, Khaldor's casting is incredibly bad. He never contributes to anything that we're not actually seeing on the main screen. He has no understanding of neither Protoss nor Terran, and is constantly predicting wrong outcomes of battles etc. And he can't seem to ever get the names right. Focus, man. This guy conveniently forgot that Hero has been playing in the GSL for over a year in Korea and never got far in Code A or reached Code S. There's a pattern of denial here where Hero is "one of the best" despite always being eliminated by any number of random Korean pros. There are plenty of Protosses better than Hero in Korea. They just never got the chance to fly overseas and roflstomp foreigners. Any of these guys would replicate if not best Hero's overseas feats: Oz, Killer, JYP, Puzzle, Sage, Genius, Creator, Tassadar, etc. It's called being the big fish in a small pond. Oz, Killer, and Genius have all competed in foreign tournaments. None of them have replicated or bested Hero's overseas feats. heros international games played: 241, 2 gold 1 silver genius: 38- blizzcon gold oz: 36 1 silver sangho: 22 yeah, it's a fair comparison. hero is much more succesful in proportion (this was sarcasm if you didn't get it) to make a fair comparison: hero: 241, 2 gold 1 silver mc: 262, 3 gold, 4 silver, 2 bronze you see now how astounding hero's overseas feats are If you had read it properly, you would note that " chance to fly overseas" clearly indicates the discussion in context of LAN tournaments, so your numbers are severely incorrect. That also leaves Oz with zero medals. I'll grant Genius his blizzcon win - which, you forgot to note, happened wayyy back in October of 2010, where the only other korean competition was Maka, who now isn't even in code A, clearly demonstrating how that tournament ins't really reflective of high level play now. That's like claiming that Jinro is one of the best Terrans because he won an MLG in 2010. As much as I love TL/Jinro, that faulty logic just doesn't work out. Hero's very recent dreamhack win EASILY trumps Genius' achievement at blizzcon. you weren't able to really comprehend what i wrote, so i'll put it simple: hero played a lot more games than genius, oz and killer (7-10 times the games), and he won one lan where the only korean he fought was puma. thumbs up for you if you think hero is much better cuz he played in 10x as many tournaments, won one so that proves he is much better. hero played about as many games as mc and he won much less. understand now? i did count hero's fxopen gold too which is just as worthless as genius' blizzcon win. hero's not as special as you think, deal with it. about brown: i'd love to see a pvz sniper in existance. but stories about training never come true... i've heard Moon beats everyone in training, Sage is the best protoss in the world in training etc etc, none of those actually happening in tournament settings. Your ego is getting in the way of simple reason here. I'm not claiming that Hero is the best - however, it's very clear that has a better performance in the foreign scene than these other Korean tosses that you mention. I would consider his results equivalent to MC's. It's also strange that you claim that MC has attended less foreign LANs - MC has either attended the same amount, or even more foreign LAN tournaments than Hero [MC started going to MLGs before Hero, and also attended multiple dreamhacks]. You can't claim that "drag X korean protoss in GSL abroad and he'll do better" since your own empirical examples fail, as Oz, Killer, etc. have attended notable foreign tournaments without any significant wins. I understand your point about wins in proportion to number of tournaments attended, but as I pointed out previously, your argument rests on a tremendous logical fallacy. LAN =/= online tournaments, and not all LANs are equal [ie, Blizzcon of 2010 is a far cry from competition today]. I don't care if you included Hero's FXOpen win, because it's obvious that one gold is not equivalent to another gold. Hero beating puma is actually quite significant, seeing as how your own comparison to MC demonstrates that MC himself was never able to best Puma even once in multiple final rounds. MC beat PuMa @ MLG Orlando and at some European tournament the same week of IEM. As far as comparing the two there is no comparison. MC is more successful both financially and tournament wise, long standing Code S and in more prestigious events. Hero's 2nd place NASL's run was made w/o koreans. The same Koreans who keep him out of Code S.
Also, you can not compare it like that.
Mc played Puma with a different patch and Mc played him at the time all the tosses can not beat terrans.
At the time Hero played Puma, lots of things had been changed.
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On December 24 2011 14:53 power-overwhelming wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 06:03 HinagikUx wrote:On December 24 2011 05:53 Olinimm wrote:On December 24 2011 05:46 msjakofsky wrote:On December 24 2011 05:13 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 02:28 vnlegend wrote:On December 24 2011 00:59 Dauntless wrote:On December 24 2011 00:05 vnlegend wrote:
Well I guess that settles that with Hero. He's not code S caliber and worse than many Korean protosses. Luckily for him he has the support to fly out to foreign events and win more prizes. Derp. "Well, that certainly settles it.". Way to judge off of the stupid format of the up & down matches. If it wasn't such a stupid format, he'd have a much greater chance of advancing. I have serious doubts that July and JYP would best him in a Bo3 or more. Also, Khaldor's casting is incredibly bad. He never contributes to anything that we're not actually seeing on the main screen. He has no understanding of neither Protoss nor Terran, and is constantly predicting wrong outcomes of battles etc. And he can't seem to ever get the names right. Focus, man. This guy conveniently forgot that Hero has been playing in the GSL for over a year in Korea and never got far in Code A or reached Code S. There's a pattern of denial here where Hero is "one of the best" despite always being eliminated by any number of random Korean pros. There are plenty of Protosses better than Hero in Korea. They just never got the chance to fly overseas and roflstomp foreigners. Any of these guys would replicate if not best Hero's overseas feats: Oz, Killer, JYP, Puzzle, Sage, Genius, Creator, Tassadar, etc. It's called being the big fish in a small pond. Oz, Killer, and Genius have all competed in foreign tournaments. None of them have replicated or bested Hero's overseas feats. heros international games played: 241, 2 gold 1 silver genius: 38- blizzcon gold oz: 36 1 silver sangho: 22 yeah, it's a fair comparison. hero is much more succesful in proportion (this was sarcasm if you didn't get it) to make a fair comparison: hero: 241, 2 gold 1 silver mc: 262, 3 gold, 4 silver, 2 bronze you see now how astounding hero's overseas feats are Plus 1 of hero's golds isn't even a major lan so it doesn't count really. Not that i dont love MC, but his achievements are REALLY outdated and he won the majority of these tournaments when his gate timings were actually working. Hero is relatively new, and the metagame has changed since then + the foreigner events such as MLG have many more koreans that attend now (such as mma, bomber, july, and mvp and nestea at providence), so its much harder to take a gold or silver. Genius's blizzcon win was seriously right when sc2 came out, and PvZ standard was still 4gate. This statistic doesnt prove shit, its better to look at the quality of the games and the competition at the event. Learn to make a good argument. Umm MC got his 2nd place at MLG after the "metagame changed". Why do people have this idea that Hero is around MC's level lol.. Hero lost to asd in code a, MC destroys bomber. Hero goes 0-4 in Blizzcup, and does poorly in the worst group of the up and downs. I think him beating foreigners in foreign tournaments is whats making people delusional.
This guy must not watch MC. Any of the "long" games MC wins - vs PuMa @ NASL ThorZain @ TSL Losira@MLG etc etc etc long games MC owns. It's rather 1-2 base timing attacks that kill him especially vs Terran.
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On December 25 2011 11:57 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 11:06 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 22:07 msjakofsky wrote:On December 24 2011 12:07 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 05:46 msjakofsky wrote:On December 24 2011 05:13 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On December 24 2011 02:28 vnlegend wrote:On December 24 2011 00:59 Dauntless wrote:On December 24 2011 00:05 vnlegend wrote:
Well I guess that settles that with Hero. He's not code S caliber and worse than many Korean protosses. Luckily for him he has the support to fly out to foreign events and win more prizes. Derp. "Well, that certainly settles it.". Way to judge off of the stupid format of the up & down matches. If it wasn't such a stupid format, he'd have a much greater chance of advancing. I have serious doubts that July and JYP would best him in a Bo3 or more. Also, Khaldor's casting is incredibly bad. He never contributes to anything that we're not actually seeing on the main screen. He has no understanding of neither Protoss nor Terran, and is constantly predicting wrong outcomes of battles etc. And he can't seem to ever get the names right. Focus, man. This guy conveniently forgot that Hero has been playing in the GSL for over a year in Korea and never got far in Code A or reached Code S. There's a pattern of denial here where Hero is "one of the best" despite always being eliminated by any number of random Korean pros. There are plenty of Protosses better than Hero in Korea. They just never got the chance to fly overseas and roflstomp foreigners. Any of these guys would replicate if not best Hero's overseas feats: Oz, Killer, JYP, Puzzle, Sage, Genius, Creator, Tassadar, etc. It's called being the big fish in a small pond. Oz, Killer, and Genius have all competed in foreign tournaments. None of them have replicated or bested Hero's overseas feats. heros international games played: 241, 2 gold 1 silver genius: 38- blizzcon gold oz: 36 1 silver sangho: 22 yeah, it's a fair comparison. hero is much more succesful in proportion (this was sarcasm if you didn't get it) to make a fair comparison: hero: 241, 2 gold 1 silver mc: 262, 3 gold, 4 silver, 2 bronze you see now how astounding hero's overseas feats are If you had read it properly, you would note that " chance to fly overseas" clearly indicates the discussion in context of LAN tournaments, so your numbers are severely incorrect. That also leaves Oz with zero medals. I'll grant Genius his blizzcon win - which, you forgot to note, happened wayyy back in October of 2010, where the only other korean competition was Maka, who now isn't even in code A, clearly demonstrating how that tournament ins't really reflective of high level play now. That's like claiming that Jinro is one of the best Terrans because he won an MLG in 2010. As much as I love TL/Jinro, that faulty logic just doesn't work out. Hero's very recent dreamhack win EASILY trumps Genius' achievement at blizzcon. you weren't able to really comprehend what i wrote, so i'll put it simple: hero played a lot more games than genius, oz and killer (7-10 times the games), and he won one lan where the only korean he fought was puma. thumbs up for you if you think hero is much better cuz he played in 10x as many tournaments, won one so that proves he is much better. hero played about as many games as mc and he won much less. understand now? i did count hero's fxopen gold too which is just as worthless as genius' blizzcon win. hero's not as special as you think, deal with it. about brown: i'd love to see a pvz sniper in existance. but stories about training never come true... i've heard Moon beats everyone in training, Sage is the best protoss in the world in training etc etc, none of those actually happening in tournament settings. Your ego is getting in the way of simple reason here. I'm not claiming that Hero is the best - however, it's very clear that has a better performance in the foreign scene than these other Korean tosses that you mention. I would consider his results equivalent to MC's. It's also strange that you claim that MC has attended less foreign LANs - MC has either attended the same amount, or even more foreign LAN tournaments than Hero [MC started going to MLGs before Hero, and also attended multiple dreamhacks]. You can't claim that "drag X korean protoss in GSL abroad and he'll do better" since your own empirical examples fail, as Oz, Killer, etc. have attended notable foreign tournaments without any significant wins. I understand your point about wins in proportion to number of tournaments attended, but as I pointed out previously, your argument rests on a tremendous logical fallacy. LAN =/= online tournaments, and not all LANs are equal [ie, Blizzcon of 2010 is a far cry from competition today]. I don't care if you included Hero's FXOpen win, because it's obvious that one gold is not equivalent to another gold. Hero beating puma is actually quite significant, seeing as how your own comparison to MC demonstrates that MC himself was never able to best Puma even once in multiple final rounds. MC beat PuMa @ MLG Orlando and at some European tournament the same week of IEM. As far as comparing the two there is no comparison. MC is more successful both financially and tournament wise, long standing Code S and in more prestigious events. Hero's 2nd place NASL's run was made w/o koreans. The same Koreans who keep him out of Code S.
I'm not disputing levels of overall skill - note that my comments are specifically in the context of results in foreign tournaments. My phrasing is probably too broad - by that, I mean major wins at tournaments [both winning a dreamhack, both taking second in NASL].
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FJmWf.jpg)
