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On November 28 2011 22:24 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 22:21 Goibon wrote:
Oh i will admit i saw none of MLG apart from the final v Naniwa. So if he lost to some bunkers or rushes in there then well, i didn't see it >_< The MMA game was in group stage of this GSL iirc, the next one...I'm not sure tt. It was like "ho, he's losing his hatch again ?" But I think he won this one at the end. So much starcraft these days it's hard :o But anyway, before that I'm with you, I think he was one of the best anti 11/11 players (you have to be to be a top zerg anyway, well unless you're Losira). It seems that the 11/11 is so rare now that it can surprise zerg players, well that's a theory at least.
To be honest, leenock has been the best anti-2rax player ever since a few months ago. If you watch his games in GSL when 2rax was still super popular, a lot of terrans tried to pull it on him, but he would always defend and win the games.
He counters two rax with patience, a lot of times he allows the terran to finish the bunker, yet still crushes the rush.
From looking at his play, I think he really put A LOT of practice hours just to defend against two rax.
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On November 28 2011 22:06 Tachion wrote:
After watching all those games.....I don't even know what makes leenock's zvt good. He doesn't have the control of DRG, or any mind boggling strats of Nestea. He just kinda defended then would pull off 1 or 2 huge attacks to gain a significant advantage for the rest of the game.
MVP's multi-tasking stood out way more than anything leenock did in the series.
He deserved to be called mini-July. His aggression is well timed out. The way he picked his engagements or timing of his counter attacks is almost always in the best possible timing. In short, tactics.
And i believe the most important trait is his unpredictable builds, to give some sort of protection against unscoutable builds (either greedy or all-inish) in tvz matchup.
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
On November 28 2011 22:05 Telcontar wrote:
Why Leenock why? This is starting to feel like when Flash rose to cockblock JD. T_T
Just out of interest, what do you mean by this?
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United Kingdom38257 Posts
On November 28 2011 22:29 Mioraka wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 22:24 MrCon wrote:On November 28 2011 22:21 Goibon wrote:
Oh i will admit i saw none of MLG apart from the final v Naniwa. So if he lost to some bunkers or rushes in there then well, i didn't see it >_< The MMA game was in group stage of this GSL iirc, the next one...I'm not sure tt. It was like "ho, he's losing his hatch again ?" But I think he won this one at the end. So much starcraft these days it's hard :o But anyway, before that I'm with you, I think he was one of the best anti 11/11 players (you have to be to be a top zerg anyway, well unless you're Losira). It seems that the 11/11 is so rare now that it can surprise zerg players, well that's a theory at least. To be honest, leenock has been the best anti-2rax player ever since a few months ago. If you watch his games in GSL when 2rax was still super popular, a lot of terrans tried to pull it on him, but he would always defend and win the games. He counters two rax with patience, a lot of times he allows the terran to finish the bunker, yet still crushes the rush. From looking at his play, I think he really put A LOT of practice hours just to defend against two rax.
He used to be really good at it back when sC was on FXO since sC had pretty much the best 2 rax around. I don't know whether it's a result of sC leaving or just coincidence but Leenock has lost his hatch against a number of early bunker builds lately.
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On November 28 2011 22:29 Mioraka wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 22:24 MrCon wrote:On November 28 2011 22:21 Goibon wrote:
Oh i will admit i saw none of MLG apart from the final v Naniwa. So if he lost to some bunkers or rushes in there then well, i didn't see it >_< The MMA game was in group stage of this GSL iirc, the next one...I'm not sure tt. It was like "ho, he's losing his hatch again ?" But I think he won this one at the end. So much starcraft these days it's hard :o But anyway, before that I'm with you, I think he was one of the best anti 11/11 players (you have to be to be a top zerg anyway, well unless you're Losira). It seems that the 11/11 is so rare now that it can surprise zerg players, well that's a theory at least. To be honest, leenock has been the best anti-2rax player ever since a few months ago. If you watch his games in GSL when 2rax was still super popular, a lot of terrans tried to pull it on him, but he would always defend and win the games. He counters two rax with patience, a lot of times he allows the terran to finish the bunker, yet still crushes the rush. From looking at his play, I think he really put A LOT of practice hours just to defend against two rax.
Someone said it best in a prior LR thread (i think when he lost to MMA): SC was his teammate at that time so there's your 2 rax practise.
I miss fOu 
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On November 28 2011 22:28 Asha` wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 22:17 pdd wrote:
About the Leenock #1 player in the world debate. I think it's kinda fair to give him #1 in terms of "Power Ranking" now. But as we all know, with the state SC2 is in right now, people just come and go. So he could very well slide down eventually.
He is currently the best player at the moment (for the past 2 weeks at least) and is a HUGE favorite in the finals this Saturday.
EDIT: Having said that if Leenock were to play Mvp again, I'll still root for Mvp. You just don't root against MVP man. I think you can cite Leenock as being the most in-form player in the world right now, but MVP is still the undisputed #1. You just can't argue with the consistency he's shown in the last half of the year, no one else has matched that.
Yeah, its like in BW when someone wins an OSL/MSL, he will likely be number one in the power rank. Yet Flash would still be the undisputed No.1.
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On November 28 2011 22:22 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 22:15 bittman wrote:On November 28 2011 22:10 Sh1bby wrote:On November 28 2011 21:59 SuperFanBoy wrote:
In mma or boxing if you lose to someone you lose your rank to them.. MVP has lost twice now to Leenock but he doesn't lose his rank as #1? I think most of you are in denial right now.. MVP was outplayed by Leenock in MLG and GSL.. lets face it. It´s sc2 and not mma or boxing. Outplayed? It was a wonderful back and forth semifinal with the closest possible score of 3:2. Yeah, MVP got outplayed seriously -.- . I am really happy Leenock won and that he finally shows his skills, but stop overhyping after two tourneys please... I've always related sc2 more to tennis than boxing/mma since those incorporate set fights with the rank on the line, whereas tennis incorporates a flexible points and ranking system into the multitude of tournaments provided to the players to compete in. In this case, MVP is still raking in the ranking points. Hypothetically Leenock would be making an enormous rush into the top 10, probably nabbing a top 5 spot off the back of (potentially) two 'grand slam-ish' events. But his rank before the last few weeks was only middle ground. That's how I rank sc2 in my mind. Sort of combination of recent results and consistency for a certain time. Yeah I think that's a better analogy.
Agreed. Whenever I want to try to describe to someone about players and how awesome someone is doing, I always couch it in terms of tennis. It's the best sports analogy I've been able to come up with thus far.
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On November 28 2011 22:22 MCDayC wrote:
Tempted to buy the GSL pass just for this series, I didn't get to watch them.
Do it. There were already really good games, Code A is quite stacked atm and I believe Up&Down will be very entertaining and surprising as well.
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It seems that since we have a damn good semi-final, our final is gonna be like always?
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On November 28 2011 22:30 Asha` wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 22:29 Mioraka wrote:On November 28 2011 22:24 MrCon wrote:On November 28 2011 22:21 Goibon wrote:
Oh i will admit i saw none of MLG apart from the final v Naniwa. So if he lost to some bunkers or rushes in there then well, i didn't see it >_< The MMA game was in group stage of this GSL iirc, the next one...I'm not sure tt. It was like "ho, he's losing his hatch again ?" But I think he won this one at the end. So much starcraft these days it's hard :o But anyway, before that I'm with you, I think he was one of the best anti 11/11 players (you have to be to be a top zerg anyway, well unless you're Losira). It seems that the 11/11 is so rare now that it can surprise zerg players, well that's a theory at least. To be honest, leenock has been the best anti-2rax player ever since a few months ago. If you watch his games in GSL when 2rax was still super popular, a lot of terrans tried to pull it on him, but he would always defend and win the games. He counters two rax with patience, a lot of times he allows the terran to finish the bunker, yet still crushes the rush. From looking at his play, I think he really put A LOT of practice hours just to defend against two rax. He used to be really good at it back when sC was on FXO since sC had pretty much the best 2 rax around. I don't know whether it's a result of sC leaving or just coincidence but Leenock has lost his hatch against a number of early bunker builds lately.
Ya, but still i think Terrans won't use too many 2 rax against him, since it's really a huge gamble on the fact that he didn't practice 2 rax lately.
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On November 28 2011 22:31 timmyfred wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 22:22 nihlon wrote:On November 28 2011 22:15 bittman wrote:On November 28 2011 22:10 Sh1bby wrote:On November 28 2011 21:59 SuperFanBoy wrote:
In mma or boxing if you lose to someone you lose your rank to them.. MVP has lost twice now to Leenock but he doesn't lose his rank as #1? I think most of you are in denial right now.. MVP was outplayed by Leenock in MLG and GSL.. lets face it. It´s sc2 and not mma or boxing. Outplayed? It was a wonderful back and forth semifinal with the closest possible score of 3:2. Yeah, MVP got outplayed seriously -.- . I am really happy Leenock won and that he finally shows his skills, but stop overhyping after two tourneys please... I've always related sc2 more to tennis than boxing/mma since those incorporate set fights with the rank on the line, whereas tennis incorporates a flexible points and ranking system into the multitude of tournaments provided to the players to compete in. In this case, MVP is still raking in the ranking points. Hypothetically Leenock would be making an enormous rush into the top 10, probably nabbing a top 5 spot off the back of (potentially) two 'grand slam-ish' events. But his rank before the last few weeks was only middle ground. That's how I rank sc2 in my mind. Sort of combination of recent results and consistency for a certain time. Yeah I think that's a better analogy. Agreed. Whenever I want to try to describe to someone about players and how awesome someone is doing, I always couch it in terms of tennis. It's the best sports analogy I've been able to come up with thus far.
Im kinda happy with the tennis parallels, at the risk of going out on a limb and this is pretty rough but I always explain to people who dont know about the players how nestea is like a federer and MVP is like Nadal :p, MKP was Murray and up and comer like MMA or such for Djoko etc...(since the seens so young and Djoko wasnt quite the monster till this year).
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On November 28 2011 22:35 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 22:31 timmyfred wrote:On November 28 2011 22:22 nihlon wrote:On November 28 2011 22:15 bittman wrote:On November 28 2011 22:10 Sh1bby wrote:On November 28 2011 21:59 SuperFanBoy wrote:
In mma or boxing if you lose to someone you lose your rank to them.. MVP has lost twice now to Leenock but he doesn't lose his rank as #1? I think most of you are in denial right now.. MVP was outplayed by Leenock in MLG and GSL.. lets face it. It´s sc2 and not mma or boxing. Outplayed? It was a wonderful back and forth semifinal with the closest possible score of 3:2. Yeah, MVP got outplayed seriously -.- . I am really happy Leenock won and that he finally shows his skills, but stop overhyping after two tourneys please... I've always related sc2 more to tennis than boxing/mma since those incorporate set fights with the rank on the line, whereas tennis incorporates a flexible points and ranking system into the multitude of tournaments provided to the players to compete in. In this case, MVP is still raking in the ranking points. Hypothetically Leenock would be making an enormous rush into the top 10, probably nabbing a top 5 spot off the back of (potentially) two 'grand slam-ish' events. But his rank before the last few weeks was only middle ground. That's how I rank sc2 in my mind. Sort of combination of recent results and consistency for a certain time. Yeah I think that's a better analogy. Agreed. Whenever I want to try to describe to someone about players and how awesome someone is doing, I always couch it in terms of tennis. It's the best sports analogy I've been able to come up with thus far. Im kinda happy with the tennis parallels, at the risk of going out on a limb and this is pretty rough but I always explain to people who dont know about the players how nestea is like a federer and MVP is like Nadal :p, MKP was Murray and and up and comer like MMA or such for Djoko etc...(since the seens so young and Djoko wasnt quite the monster till this year).
LOL poor Murray. Gonna start calling him Kong now.
and no one i know will get it but that's fine :D
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Did NesTea get tired of his aging body and swap minds with this Leenock kid?
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On November 28 2011 22:26 Goibon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 22:22 nihlon wrote:On November 28 2011 22:15 bittman wrote:On November 28 2011 22:10 Sh1bby wrote:On November 28 2011 21:59 SuperFanBoy wrote:
In mma or boxing if you lose to someone you lose your rank to them.. MVP has lost twice now to Leenock but he doesn't lose his rank as #1? I think most of you are in denial right now.. MVP was outplayed by Leenock in MLG and GSL.. lets face it. It´s sc2 and not mma or boxing. Outplayed? It was a wonderful back and forth semifinal with the closest possible score of 3:2. Yeah, MVP got outplayed seriously -.- . I am really happy Leenock won and that he finally shows his skills, but stop overhyping after two tourneys please... I've always related sc2 more to tennis than boxing/mma since those incorporate set fights with the rank on the line, whereas tennis incorporates a flexible points and ranking system into the multitude of tournaments provided to the players to compete in. In this case, MVP is still raking in the ranking points. Hypothetically Leenock would be making an enormous rush into the top 10, probably nabbing a top 5 spot off the back of (potentially) two 'grand slam-ish' events. But his rank before the last few weeks was only middle ground. That's how I rank sc2 in my mind. Sort of combination of recent results and consistency for a certain time. Yeah I think that's a better analogy. I agree with this. If you want a word to describe Leenock, i would suggest 'in form'. Dunno if you use that in America or whatever, but down here we use it for mostly Rugby players. Like if one player or team is dominating at a certain point in time then they're in form, or the form team of the competition. The key here is that form is temporary. Class is permanent. If you want to talk about banjos, then you're looking for form AND class over a long ass period of time. MVP clearly has class, but he's been in and out of form pretty drastically what with his code A drop and his shitty TvP. Leenock is really only in form now. And i can happily say he's the form player of SC2 even if he loses the final. Expect many players to move in and out of form, and with a game as volatile as this, and with Blizzard still patching, this will continue on for some time.
To further the analogy into the stupid banjo debate (that I incited =P ), it would be equivalent to having Roger Federer (specifically a couple of years before now). Where the man can never be seen as the underdog for the tournament crown, and if he ever loses it's a huge upset. So though I totally know where BW fans come from, I just hate how they get up in arms about it with outrage to be reserved naturally for a response to someone beating an adorable puppy to death with a fluffy kitten.
Closest thing to proper rankings in my eyes is the ELO, but I think that system cannot determine the scope of sc2. I mean, Nerchio will almost always be near the top of the ELO for international because of the sheer number of foreign tournaments he wins, but I'd never rate him over most of the top 10 under him. Same sort of thing with Korean ELO since Taeja is far from top 5 despite owning face in the Korean weeklies.
ELO, imo, would sort of need to weigh tournament worth against the ELO of attending players or provide an unbiased ranking of a tournament over others. Either method is a lot of work for a system that's only a nice 'feature' and not something to end all discussions =P
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Sickest TvZ I've ever seen today.
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On November 28 2011 22:36 Nekovivie wrote:
Did NesTea get tired of his aging body and swap minds with this Leenock kid?
Artosis would tell you that one day Nestea shed a tear (just because he felt like it, Nestea doesnt cry) and from that spawned Leenock and now that tear is becoming a monster that crushes Mvp for Nestea since Nestea put all the Mvp killing codes into the tear.
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On November 28 2011 22:30 MCDayC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 22:05 Telcontar wrote:
Why Leenock why? This is starting to feel like when Flash rose to cockblock JD. T_T Just out of interest, what do you mean by this?
I didn't really follow the BW scene, but from what I've understood, Jaedong was the undisputed best player in the world around the time Flash suddenly became good and turned into [insert taboo b-word here]. Jaedong was on his way to becoming the next [taboo b-word] but Flash became it before him.
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United Kingdom38257 Posts
On November 28 2011 22:36 Nekovivie wrote:
Did NesTea get tired of his aging body and swap minds with this Leenock kid?
Pft, NesTea has very rarely ZvT'd at the same level as Leenock
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The finals will be very one-sided unless jiakjji comes out with some strong builds cuz leenock looks like the best player in the moment.
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I wonder how the heck did leenock catch those 3 drops at such an impeccable timing.Did he had any ovie placed there?
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EPT
