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So... I looked at the OP, not sure if I missed it.
Between the 3 regions... are the top 2 going to the final live event? It can't just be top 1 (with 3 regions), is it? Or how does it work?
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Why did kiwi have an immortal in the middle of the map?! When the battle was over the immortal came out of no where like *hey guys im back* and just died lol. Or am i missing something?
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On September 14 2011 10:37 Crowned wrote:
Idra 2 : Destiny 0
Sheth 2 : incontrol 0
Tyler 2 : Slush 1
Major 2 : Kiwikaki 0
IdrA, Sheth and Major were obviously chosen to win, but Tyler vs Slush definitely surprised me.
Great games.
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On September 14 2011 10:40 ODieN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 10:37 Crowned wrote:
Idra 2 : Destiny 0
Sheth 2 : incontrol 0
Tyler 2 : Slush 1
Major 2 : Kiwikaki 0 IdrA, Sheth and Major were obviously chosen to win, but Tyler vs Slush definitely surprised me. Great games.
the players were seeded by their MLG rank
idra: highest ranking NA MLG player
destiny: lowest ranking NA MLG player (only got to champ bracket once so far)
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On September 14 2011 10:38 HansK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 10:30 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 10:24 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:15 Toadvine wrote:Artosis saying the double gas 1 Gate FE is scary against 1/1/1, when it's actually the best normal opening against it.  It's terrible and will lose every single time to a well 1/1/1. The safest opening a protoss has is 1 gate stargate and 1 gate robo and both can hold off 1-1-1 and I'll be willing to play paypal games vs anyone going that build and I will not prepare for 1-1-1 until scouted. And what will you do after you scout the 1/1/1? If you throw down the expo, then you'll end up at the same place as a 1 Gate FE, but with a worse economy. If you 1 base, you'll maybe beat a bad player who just blindly all-ins, but lose horribly to someone who can transition out of it. Besides, I think you'd find a good amount of people willing to take your money if anyone believed you were serious. I am 100% serious. Anyone can PM me to set it up if they like, I'll be willing to let a moderator hold the money. It's simple, you scout if they're going gasless expand, and if so you can 1 gate FE. If you see gas go 1 gate robo or 1 gate stargate and scout. If they're going 1-1-1 [the phoenix comes out roughly the same time as their starport is going up] you prepare with a 1 base zealot phoenix. You can keep scouting to see if they attempt to go a CC and follow it up with an expand your self. You stay very equal and you will not die to the 1-1-1. Like I said, I'll play any terran player that is going 1-1-1 and hold it off with a build that has an option to expand if they are going gasless expand.
You will lose with Zealot/Phoenix after they reach a critical mass of marines and tanks. Whether they expand or not is completely irrelevant, since you will have no splash damage. In any case, I've seen a player infinitely better than you (NSHS.Tassadar) try that, and get absolutely demolished by a not especially well executed 1/1/1, so yeah.
I'd take your money if I had any experience playing Terran. Though I still don't really believe you'd do it. Either that, or you're completely delusional about your ability to defend itl.
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On September 14 2011 10:38 MrSexington wrote:
So... I looked at the OP, not sure if I missed it.
Between the 3 regions... are the top 2 going to the final live event? It can't just be top 1 (with 3 regions), is it? Or how does it work?
Top 1 from each region and the blizzcon champ goes to a 4 person final.
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I don't want to read the results, so I'm trying not to read the posts, but are there vods posted/ going to be posted?
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On September 14 2011 10:44 Toadvine wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 10:38 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:30 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 10:24 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:15 Toadvine wrote:Artosis saying the double gas 1 Gate FE is scary against 1/1/1, when it's actually the best normal opening against it. It's terrible and will lose every single time to a well 1/1/1. The safest opening a protoss has is 1 gate stargate and 1 gate robo and both can hold off 1-1-1 and I'll be willing to play paypal games vs anyone going that build and I will not prepare for 1-1-1 until scouted. And what will you do after you scout the 1/1/1? If you throw down the expo, then you'll end up at the same place as a 1 Gate FE, but with a worse economy. If you 1 base, you'll maybe beat a bad player who just blindly all-ins, but lose horribly to someone who can transition out of it. Besides, I think you'd find a good amount of people willing to take your money if anyone believed you were serious. I am 100% serious. Anyone can PM me to set it up if they like, I'll be willing to let a moderator hold the money. It's simple, you scout if they're going gasless expand, and if so you can 1 gate FE. If you see gas go 1 gate robo or 1 gate stargate and scout. If they're going 1-1-1 [the phoenix comes out roughly the same time as their starport is going up] you prepare with a 1 base zealot phoenix. You can keep scouting to see if they attempt to go a CC and follow it up with an expand your self. You stay very equal and you will not die to the 1-1-1. Like I said, I'll play any terran player that is going 1-1-1 and hold it off with a build that has an option to expand if they are going gasless expand. You will lose with Zealot/Phoenix after they reach a critical mass of marines and tanks. Whether they expand or not is completely irrelevant, since you will have no splash damage. In any case, I've seen a player infinitely better than you (NSHS.Tassadar) try that, and get absolutely demolished by a not especially well executed 1/1/1, so yeah. I'd take your money if I had any experience playing Terran. Though I still don't really believe you'd do it. Either that, or you're completely delusional about your ability to defend itl.
You have no clue who I am or my credentials. You can not lose with phoenix charge lot to a 1-1-1 no matter what. The thing is you won't find anyone to take my bet because most pro Terran players know that if they go speedlot phoenix you will lose if you go 1-1-1, and any Terran who doesn't know it most likely won't be at a high enough level to feel confident to try and bet real life money to do it.
Since you do not know who I am and doubt my credibility, here is a quote from Thorzain a player I'm sure you're aware of due to following the tournament scene and games. Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257589¤tpage=36#715
+ Show Spoiler +"In the 3rd game, Phoenix chargelots are regarded a pretty good counter to 1-1-1. But instead, MC decided to go for phoenix + mass stalkers with blink and aim for a base race scenario with a hidden expansion. Stalkers are shit vs 1-1-1 all in. He also invested a lot of resources in DTs."
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On September 14 2011 11:03 HansK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 10:44 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 10:38 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:30 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 10:24 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:15 Toadvine wrote:Artosis saying the double gas 1 Gate FE is scary against 1/1/1, when it's actually the best normal opening against it. It's terrible and will lose every single time to a well 1/1/1. The safest opening a protoss has is 1 gate stargate and 1 gate robo and both can hold off 1-1-1 and I'll be willing to play paypal games vs anyone going that build and I will not prepare for 1-1-1 until scouted. And what will you do after you scout the 1/1/1? If you throw down the expo, then you'll end up at the same place as a 1 Gate FE, but with a worse economy. If you 1 base, you'll maybe beat a bad player who just blindly all-ins, but lose horribly to someone who can transition out of it. Besides, I think you'd find a good amount of people willing to take your money if anyone believed you were serious. I am 100% serious. Anyone can PM me to set it up if they like, I'll be willing to let a moderator hold the money. It's simple, you scout if they're going gasless expand, and if so you can 1 gate FE. If you see gas go 1 gate robo or 1 gate stargate and scout. If they're going 1-1-1 [the phoenix comes out roughly the same time as their starport is going up] you prepare with a 1 base zealot phoenix. You can keep scouting to see if they attempt to go a CC and follow it up with an expand your self. You stay very equal and you will not die to the 1-1-1. Like I said, I'll play any terran player that is going 1-1-1 and hold it off with a build that has an option to expand if they are going gasless expand. You will lose with Zealot/Phoenix after they reach a critical mass of marines and tanks. Whether they expand or not is completely irrelevant, since you will have no splash damage. In any case, I've seen a player infinitely better than you (NSHS.Tassadar) try that, and get absolutely demolished by a not especially well executed 1/1/1, so yeah. I'd take your money if I had any experience playing Terran. Though I still don't really believe you'd do it. Either that, or you're completely delusional about your ability to defend itl. You have no clue who I am or my credentials. You can not lose with phoenix charge lot to a 1-1-1 no matter what. The thing is you won't find anyone to take my bet because most pro Terran players know that if they go speedlot phoenix you will lose if you go 1-1-1, and any Terran who doesn't know it most likely won't be at a high enough level to feel confident to try and bet real life money to do it. Since you do not know who I am and doubt my credibility, here is a quote from Thorzain a player I'm sure you're aware of due to following the tournament scene and games. Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257589¤tpage=36#715+ Show Spoiler +"In the 3rd game, Phoenix chargelots are regarded a pretty good counter to 1-1-1. But instead, MC decided to go for phoenix + mass stalkers with blink and aim for a base race scenario with a hidden expansion. Stalkers are shit vs 1-1-1 all in. He also invested a lot of resources in DTs."
"Phoenix chargelots are regarded a pretty good counter to 1-1-1" =/= autowin
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On September 14 2011 11:03 HansK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 10:44 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 10:38 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:30 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 10:24 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:15 Toadvine wrote:Artosis saying the double gas 1 Gate FE is scary against 1/1/1, when it's actually the best normal opening against it. It's terrible and will lose every single time to a well 1/1/1. The safest opening a protoss has is 1 gate stargate and 1 gate robo and both can hold off 1-1-1 and I'll be willing to play paypal games vs anyone going that build and I will not prepare for 1-1-1 until scouted. And what will you do after you scout the 1/1/1? If you throw down the expo, then you'll end up at the same place as a 1 Gate FE, but with a worse economy. If you 1 base, you'll maybe beat a bad player who just blindly all-ins, but lose horribly to someone who can transition out of it. Besides, I think you'd find a good amount of people willing to take your money if anyone believed you were serious. I am 100% serious. Anyone can PM me to set it up if they like, I'll be willing to let a moderator hold the money. It's simple, you scout if they're going gasless expand, and if so you can 1 gate FE. If you see gas go 1 gate robo or 1 gate stargate and scout. If they're going 1-1-1 [the phoenix comes out roughly the same time as their starport is going up] you prepare with a 1 base zealot phoenix. You can keep scouting to see if they attempt to go a CC and follow it up with an expand your self. You stay very equal and you will not die to the 1-1-1. Like I said, I'll play any terran player that is going 1-1-1 and hold it off with a build that has an option to expand if they are going gasless expand. You will lose with Zealot/Phoenix after they reach a critical mass of marines and tanks. Whether they expand or not is completely irrelevant, since you will have no splash damage. In any case, I've seen a player infinitely better than you (NSHS.Tassadar) try that, and get absolutely demolished by a not especially well executed 1/1/1, so yeah. I'd take your money if I had any experience playing Terran. Though I still don't really believe you'd do it. Either that, or you're completely delusional about your ability to defend itl. You have no clue who I am or my credentials. You can not lose with phoenix charge lot to a 1-1-1 no matter what. The thing is you won't find anyone to take my bet because most pro Terran players know that if they go speedlot phoenix you will lose if you go 1-1-1, and any Terran who doesn't know it most likely won't be at a high enough level to feel confident to try and bet real life money to do it. Since you do not know who I am and doubt my credibility, here is a quote from Thorzain a player I'm sure you're aware of due to following the tournament scene and games. Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257589¤tpage=36#715+ Show Spoiler +"In the 3rd game, Phoenix chargelots are regarded a pretty good counter to 1-1-1. But instead, MC decided to go for phoenix + mass stalkers with blink and aim for a base race scenario with a hidden expansion. Stalkers are shit vs 1-1-1 all in. He also invested a lot of resources in DTs."
Frankly, I don't give a shit about what anyone says about this build anymore, especially if they think something is a "good counter". I've seen so many good Protoss players in the GSL know it's coming, try all sorts of different stuff, and still get rolled, that I'm not going to believe anything I don't see work with my own eyes. Especially since I saw this particular solution (Chargelot/Phoenix) lose pretty decisively. Watch Tassadar vs Yoda on Crossfire in Code A August, if you're interested.
Frankly, considering pretty much every Protoss player on TL agrees the most reliable way of handling it is an early Nexus into 4 Gate Robo, and that is what MC tried against PuMa in his most successful attempt, you're just coming off as both arrogant and ignorant here. You can go over to one of the threads discussing the 1/1/1 and show your credentials off there, if you wish.
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anybody got a link to the vods?
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On September 14 2011 10:55 cablesc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 10:38 MrSexington wrote:
So... I looked at the OP, not sure if I missed it.
Between the 3 regions... are the top 2 going to the final live event? It can't just be top 1 (with 3 regions), is it? Or how does it work? Top 1 from each region and the blizzcon champ goes to a 4 person final.
Ok, that makes sense.
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On September 14 2011 11:12 Toadvine wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 11:03 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:44 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 10:38 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:30 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 10:24 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:15 Toadvine wrote:Artosis saying the double gas 1 Gate FE is scary against 1/1/1, when it's actually the best normal opening against it. It's terrible and will lose every single time to a well 1/1/1. The safest opening a protoss has is 1 gate stargate and 1 gate robo and both can hold off 1-1-1 and I'll be willing to play paypal games vs anyone going that build and I will not prepare for 1-1-1 until scouted. And what will you do after you scout the 1/1/1? If you throw down the expo, then you'll end up at the same place as a 1 Gate FE, but with a worse economy. If you 1 base, you'll maybe beat a bad player who just blindly all-ins, but lose horribly to someone who can transition out of it. Besides, I think you'd find a good amount of people willing to take your money if anyone believed you were serious. I am 100% serious. Anyone can PM me to set it up if they like, I'll be willing to let a moderator hold the money. It's simple, you scout if they're going gasless expand, and if so you can 1 gate FE. If you see gas go 1 gate robo or 1 gate stargate and scout. If they're going 1-1-1 [the phoenix comes out roughly the same time as their starport is going up] you prepare with a 1 base zealot phoenix. You can keep scouting to see if they attempt to go a CC and follow it up with an expand your self. You stay very equal and you will not die to the 1-1-1. Like I said, I'll play any terran player that is going 1-1-1 and hold it off with a build that has an option to expand if they are going gasless expand. You will lose with Zealot/Phoenix after they reach a critical mass of marines and tanks. Whether they expand or not is completely irrelevant, since you will have no splash damage. In any case, I've seen a player infinitely better than you (NSHS.Tassadar) try that, and get absolutely demolished by a not especially well executed 1/1/1, so yeah. I'd take your money if I had any experience playing Terran. Though I still don't really believe you'd do it. Either that, or you're completely delusional about your ability to defend itl. You have no clue who I am or my credentials. You can not lose with phoenix charge lot to a 1-1-1 no matter what. The thing is you won't find anyone to take my bet because most pro Terran players know that if they go speedlot phoenix you will lose if you go 1-1-1, and any Terran who doesn't know it most likely won't be at a high enough level to feel confident to try and bet real life money to do it. Since you do not know who I am and doubt my credibility, here is a quote from Thorzain a player I'm sure you're aware of due to following the tournament scene and games. Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257589¤tpage=36#715+ Show Spoiler +"In the 3rd game, Phoenix chargelots are regarded a pretty good counter to 1-1-1. But instead, MC decided to go for phoenix + mass stalkers with blink and aim for a base race scenario with a hidden expansion. Stalkers are shit vs 1-1-1 all in. He also invested a lot of resources in DTs." Frankly, I don't give a shit about what anyone says about this build anymore, especially if they think something is a "good counter". I've seen so many good Protoss players in the GSL know it's coming, try all sorts of different stuff, and still get rolled, that I'm not going to believe anything I don't see work with my own eyes. Especially since I saw this particular solution (Chargelot/Phoenix) lose pretty decisively. Watch Tassadar vs Yoda on Crossfire in Code A August, if you're interested. Frankly, considering pretty much every Protoss player on TL agrees the most reliable way of handling it is an early Nexus into 4 Gate Robo, and that is what MC tried against PuMa in his most successful attempt, you're just coming off as both arrogant and ignorant here. You can go over to one of the threads discussing the 1/1/1 and show your credentials off there, if you wish.
Basically this. In korean, the only place that actually matters to me, no solution has been found. The "hard counter" which still has a great chance of losing is the fastest expand possible. The 1/1/1 being held between foreigners doesn't really matter much because korean terrans(and protosses) are so much better. Also, zealot + phoenix would get owned by the counter to 1 base for the 1/1/1, bunkering up and containing and taking an expansion. I couldn't care less about the state of the foreigner meta game and its answers to the 1/1/1. Show me koreans not getting owned by it.
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On September 14 2011 11:03 HansK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 10:44 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 10:38 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:30 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 10:24 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:15 Toadvine wrote:Artosis saying the double gas 1 Gate FE is scary against 1/1/1, when it's actually the best normal opening against it. It's terrible and will lose every single time to a well 1/1/1. The safest opening a protoss has is 1 gate stargate and 1 gate robo and both can hold off 1-1-1 and I'll be willing to play paypal games vs anyone going that build and I will not prepare for 1-1-1 until scouted. And what will you do after you scout the 1/1/1? If you throw down the expo, then you'll end up at the same place as a 1 Gate FE, but with a worse economy. If you 1 base, you'll maybe beat a bad player who just blindly all-ins, but lose horribly to someone who can transition out of it. Besides, I think you'd find a good amount of people willing to take your money if anyone believed you were serious. I am 100% serious. Anyone can PM me to set it up if they like, I'll be willing to let a moderator hold the money. It's simple, you scout if they're going gasless expand, and if so you can 1 gate FE. If you see gas go 1 gate robo or 1 gate stargate and scout. If they're going 1-1-1 [the phoenix comes out roughly the same time as their starport is going up] you prepare with a 1 base zealot phoenix. You can keep scouting to see if they attempt to go a CC and follow it up with an expand your self. You stay very equal and you will not die to the 1-1-1. Like I said, I'll play any terran player that is going 1-1-1 and hold it off with a build that has an option to expand if they are going gasless expand. You will lose with Zealot/Phoenix after they reach a critical mass of marines and tanks. Whether they expand or not is completely irrelevant, since you will have no splash damage. In any case, I've seen a player infinitely better than you (NSHS.Tassadar) try that, and get absolutely demolished by a not especially well executed 1/1/1, so yeah. I'd take your money if I had any experience playing Terran. Though I still don't really believe you'd do it. Either that, or you're completely delusional about your ability to defend itl. You have no clue who I am or my credentials. You can not lose with phoenix charge lot to a 1-1-1 no matter what. The thing is you won't find anyone to take my bet because most pro Terran players know that if they go speedlot phoenix you will lose if you go 1-1-1, and any Terran who doesn't know it most likely won't be at a high enough level to feel confident to try and bet real life money to do it. Since you do not know who I am and doubt my credibility, here is a quote from Thorzain a player I'm sure you're aware of due to following the tournament scene and games. Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257589¤tpage=36#715+ Show Spoiler +"In the 3rd game, Phoenix chargelots are regarded a pretty good counter to 1-1-1. But instead, MC decided to go for phoenix + mass stalkers with blink and aim for a base race scenario with a hidden expansion. Stalkers are shit vs 1-1-1 all in. He also invested a lot of resources in DTs."
People still think a 1 basing Protoss is the way to hold 1-1-1? Seriously?
It's really simple yet people refuse to acknowledge it. Terran gets 240minerals/ minute over the Protoss. Assuming the Terran gets some super late mule at the 4min mark, he has 1460minerals ABOVE the Protoss at the 10 min mark when 1-1-1 hits. Taking into consideration chronoboost till Protoss has max probes will probably make that number close to 1000minerals. That's 10 extra zealots the Protoss does NOT have.
Now take into consideration that marines, siege tanks and banshee are considered top, top tier when it comes to effeciency and stalkers sentry and zealots are amongst the lowest tier(assuming no charge for zealots because it's such a heavy investment on 1 base.). Your solution of the Phoenix charge lot is ridiculous to any Protoss because we know if we go both paths we'll end up with nothing. Let me remind you charge costs 350/300 and 4 Phoenix cost us 750/550. Protoss is not cheap.
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Good tournament so far, I love artosis!
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On September 14 2011 11:03 HansK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 10:44 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 10:38 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:30 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 10:24 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:15 Toadvine wrote:Artosis saying the double gas 1 Gate FE is scary against 1/1/1, when it's actually the best normal opening against it. It's terrible and will lose every single time to a well 1/1/1. The safest opening a protoss has is 1 gate stargate and 1 gate robo and both can hold off 1-1-1 and I'll be willing to play paypal games vs anyone going that build and I will not prepare for 1-1-1 until scouted. And what will you do after you scout the 1/1/1? If you throw down the expo, then you'll end up at the same place as a 1 Gate FE, but with a worse economy. If you 1 base, you'll maybe beat a bad player who just blindly all-ins, but lose horribly to someone who can transition out of it. Besides, I think you'd find a good amount of people willing to take your money if anyone believed you were serious. I am 100% serious. Anyone can PM me to set it up if they like, I'll be willing to let a moderator hold the money. It's simple, you scout if they're going gasless expand, and if so you can 1 gate FE. If you see gas go 1 gate robo or 1 gate stargate and scout. If they're going 1-1-1 [the phoenix comes out roughly the same time as their starport is going up] you prepare with a 1 base zealot phoenix. You can keep scouting to see if they attempt to go a CC and follow it up with an expand your self. You stay very equal and you will not die to the 1-1-1. Like I said, I'll play any terran player that is going 1-1-1 and hold it off with a build that has an option to expand if they are going gasless expand. You will lose with Zealot/Phoenix after they reach a critical mass of marines and tanks. Whether they expand or not is completely irrelevant, since you will have no splash damage. In any case, I've seen a player infinitely better than you (NSHS.Tassadar) try that, and get absolutely demolished by a not especially well executed 1/1/1, so yeah. I'd take your money if I had any experience playing Terran. Though I still don't really believe you'd do it. Either that, or you're completely delusional about your ability to defend itl. You have no clue who I am or my credentials. You can not lose with phoenix charge lot to a 1-1-1 no matter what. The thing is you won't find anyone to take my bet because most pro Terran players know that if they go speedlot phoenix you will lose if you go 1-1-1, and any Terran who doesn't know it most likely won't be at a high enough level to feel confident to try and bet real life money to do it. Since you do not know who I am and doubt my credibility, here is a quote from Thorzain a player I'm sure you're aware of due to following the tournament scene and games. Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257589¤tpage=36#715+ Show Spoiler +"In the 3rd game, Phoenix chargelots are regarded a pretty good counter to 1-1-1. But instead, MC decided to go for phoenix + mass stalkers with blink and aim for a base race scenario with a hidden expansion. Stalkers are shit vs 1-1-1 all in. He also invested a lot of resources in DTs."
ill take your challenge but the money that would go up u probably wouldnt even accept quit pretending you can hold off the 1-1-1 when you use strats against bronze players
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On September 14 2011 11:03 HansK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 10:44 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 10:38 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:30 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 10:24 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:15 Toadvine wrote:Artosis saying the double gas 1 Gate FE is scary against 1/1/1, when it's actually the best normal opening against it. It's terrible and will lose every single time to a well 1/1/1. The safest opening a protoss has is 1 gate stargate and 1 gate robo and both can hold off 1-1-1 and I'll be willing to play paypal games vs anyone going that build and I will not prepare for 1-1-1 until scouted. And what will you do after you scout the 1/1/1? If you throw down the expo, then you'll end up at the same place as a 1 Gate FE, but with a worse economy. If you 1 base, you'll maybe beat a bad player who just blindly all-ins, but lose horribly to someone who can transition out of it. Besides, I think you'd find a good amount of people willing to take your money if anyone believed you were serious. I am 100% serious. Anyone can PM me to set it up if they like, I'll be willing to let a moderator hold the money. It's simple, you scout if they're going gasless expand, and if so you can 1 gate FE. If you see gas go 1 gate robo or 1 gate stargate and scout. If they're going 1-1-1 [the phoenix comes out roughly the same time as their starport is going up] you prepare with a 1 base zealot phoenix. You can keep scouting to see if they attempt to go a CC and follow it up with an expand your self. You stay very equal and you will not die to the 1-1-1. Like I said, I'll play any terran player that is going 1-1-1 and hold it off with a build that has an option to expand if they are going gasless expand. You will lose with Zealot/Phoenix after they reach a critical mass of marines and tanks. Whether they expand or not is completely irrelevant, since you will have no splash damage. In any case, I've seen a player infinitely better than you (NSHS.Tassadar) try that, and get absolutely demolished by a not especially well executed 1/1/1, so yeah. I'd take your money if I had any experience playing Terran. Though I still don't really believe you'd do it. Either that, or you're completely delusional about your ability to defend itl. You have no clue who I am or my credentials. You can not lose with phoenix charge lot to a 1-1-1 no matter what. The thing is you won't find anyone to take my bet because most pro Terran players know that if they go speedlot phoenix you will lose if you go 1-1-1, and any Terran who doesn't know it most likely won't be at a high enough level to feel confident to try and bet real life money to do it. Since you do not know who I am and doubt my credibility, here is a quote from Thorzain a player I'm sure you're aware of due to following the tournament scene and games. Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257589¤tpage=36#715+ Show Spoiler +"In the 3rd game, Phoenix chargelots are regarded a pretty good counter to 1-1-1. But instead, MC decided to go for phoenix + mass stalkers with blink and aim for a base race scenario with a hidden expansion. Stalkers are shit vs 1-1-1 all in. He also invested a lot of resources in DTs."
the question is: how can u ever have charge and a stargate tech up against a well timed 1-1-1?
I wittnessed 2 versions of the 1-1-1 yet: SjoW played it rediculously fast and went out at a time i only had a robo and 3 gates available: with 2 unsieged tanks, 1 banshee, tons of marines.
Another Version of ClouD: Constant Cloak banshee harass from 2 banshees and push with 4 siegetanks, 30 marines, a raven, 2 banshees.
So even against the late (cloud) version: you need a robo for obs, some stalkers (against the banshees) and then you want me to have 5 gates, charge rdy and a stargate + phoenixes?
sry dude, just not possible.
It is viable if you somehow have more time then u should have (lower league, some crazy early game) or against a 2nd push after holding the first one with gateway units only, but well - how often does that happen
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On September 14 2011 11:12 Toadvine wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 11:03 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:44 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 10:38 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:30 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 10:24 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:15 Toadvine wrote:Artosis saying the double gas 1 Gate FE is scary against 1/1/1, when it's actually the best normal opening against it. It's terrible and will lose every single time to a well 1/1/1. The safest opening a protoss has is 1 gate stargate and 1 gate robo and both can hold off 1-1-1 and I'll be willing to play paypal games vs anyone going that build and I will not prepare for 1-1-1 until scouted. And what will you do after you scout the 1/1/1? If you throw down the expo, then you'll end up at the same place as a 1 Gate FE, but with a worse economy. If you 1 base, you'll maybe beat a bad player who just blindly all-ins, but lose horribly to someone who can transition out of it. Besides, I think you'd find a good amount of people willing to take your money if anyone believed you were serious. I am 100% serious. Anyone can PM me to set it up if they like, I'll be willing to let a moderator hold the money. It's simple, you scout if they're going gasless expand, and if so you can 1 gate FE. If you see gas go 1 gate robo or 1 gate stargate and scout. If they're going 1-1-1 [the phoenix comes out roughly the same time as their starport is going up] you prepare with a 1 base zealot phoenix. You can keep scouting to see if they attempt to go a CC and follow it up with an expand your self. You stay very equal and you will not die to the 1-1-1. Like I said, I'll play any terran player that is going 1-1-1 and hold it off with a build that has an option to expand if they are going gasless expand. You will lose with Zealot/Phoenix after they reach a critical mass of marines and tanks. Whether they expand or not is completely irrelevant, since you will have no splash damage. In any case, I've seen a player infinitely better than you (NSHS.Tassadar) try that, and get absolutely demolished by a not especially well executed 1/1/1, so yeah. I'd take your money if I had any experience playing Terran. Though I still don't really believe you'd do it. Either that, or you're completely delusional about your ability to defend itl. You have no clue who I am or my credentials. You can not lose with phoenix charge lot to a 1-1-1 no matter what. The thing is you won't find anyone to take my bet because most pro Terran players know that if they go speedlot phoenix you will lose if you go 1-1-1, and any Terran who doesn't know it most likely won't be at a high enough level to feel confident to try and bet real life money to do it. Since you do not know who I am and doubt my credibility, here is a quote from Thorzain a player I'm sure you're aware of due to following the tournament scene and games. Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257589¤tpage=36#715+ Show Spoiler +"In the 3rd game, Phoenix chargelots are regarded a pretty good counter to 1-1-1. But instead, MC decided to go for phoenix + mass stalkers with blink and aim for a base race scenario with a hidden expansion. Stalkers are shit vs 1-1-1 all in. He also invested a lot of resources in DTs." Frankly, I don't give a shit about what anyone says about this build anymore, especially if they think something is a "good counter". I've seen so many good Protoss players in the GSL know it's coming, try all sorts of different stuff, and still get rolled, that I'm not going to believe anything I don't see work with my own eyes. Especially since I saw this particular solution (Chargelot/Phoenix) lose pretty decisively. Watch Tassadar vs Yoda on Crossfire in Code A August, if you're interested. Frankly, considering pretty much every Protoss player on TL agrees the most reliable way of handling it is an early Nexus into 4 Gate Robo, and that is what MC tried against PuMa in his most successful attempt, you're just coming off as both arrogant and ignorant here. You can go over to one of the threads discussing the 1/1/1 and show your credentials off there, if you wish.
On that, MaNa just crushed PuMa's 1-1-1 with FE into 5 Gate Robo. Good micro, positioning and "where and when" to engage won him the game ezpz.
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chargelot phoenix can hold some variations of 1-1-1, those that hit at 8-9 min. If your opponent decided to turtle up and wait till he has 30-40 marines 5 tanks, 2-3 vikings 2-3 banshees, you will lose without higher tech.
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EPT
