EPTOn September 14 2011 20:26 ZAiNs wrote:
Which tournament was this?
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2011 12:50 Alpino wrote:
On that, MaNa just crushed PuMa's 1-1-1 with FE into 5 Gate Robo. Good micro, positioning and "where and when" to engage won him the game ezpz.
On September 14 2011 11:12 Toadvine wrote:
Frankly, I don't give a shit about what anyone says about this build anymore, especially if they think something is a "good counter". I've seen so many good Protoss players in the GSL know it's coming, try all sorts of different stuff, and still get rolled, that I'm not going to believe anything I don't see work with my own eyes. Especially since I saw this particular solution (Chargelot/Phoenix) lose pretty decisively. Watch Tassadar vs Yoda on Crossfire in Code A August, if you're interested.
Frankly, considering pretty much every Protoss player on TL agrees the most reliable way of handling it is an early Nexus into 4 Gate Robo, and that is what MC tried against PuMa in his most successful attempt, you're just coming off as both arrogant and ignorant here. You can go over to one of the threads discussing the 1/1/1 and show your credentials off there, if you wish.
On September 14 2011 11:03 HansK wrote:
You have no clue who I am or my credentials. You can not lose with phoenix charge lot to a 1-1-1 no matter what. The thing is you won't find anyone to take my bet because most pro Terran players know that if they go speedlot phoenix you will lose if you go 1-1-1, and any Terran who doesn't know it most likely won't be at a high enough level to feel confident to try and bet real life money to do it.
Since you do not know who I am and doubt my credibility, here is a quote from Thorzain a player I'm sure you're aware of due to following the tournament scene and games. Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257589¤tpage=36#715
+ Show Spoiler +
On September 14 2011 10:44 Toadvine wrote:
You will lose with Zealot/Phoenix after they reach a critical mass of marines and tanks. Whether they expand or not is completely irrelevant, since you will have no splash damage. In any case, I've seen a player infinitely better than you (NSHS.Tassadar) try that, and get absolutely demolished by a not especially well executed 1/1/1, so yeah.
I'd take your money if I had any experience playing Terran. Though I still don't really believe you'd do it. Either that, or you're completely delusional about your ability to defend itl.
On September 14 2011 10:38 HansK wrote:
I am 100% serious. Anyone can PM me to set it up if they like, I'll be willing to let a moderator hold the money.
It's simple, you scout if they're going gasless expand, and if so you can 1 gate FE. If you see gas go 1 gate robo or 1 gate stargate and scout. If they're going 1-1-1 [the phoenix comes out roughly the same time as their starport is going up] you prepare with a 1 base zealot phoenix. You can keep scouting to see if they attempt to go a CC and follow it up with an expand your self.
You stay very equal and you will not die to the 1-1-1. Like I said, I'll play any terran player that is going 1-1-1 and hold it off with a build that has an option to expand if they are going gasless expand.
On September 14 2011 10:30 Toadvine wrote:
And what will you do after you scout the 1/1/1? If you throw down the expo, then you'll end up at the same place as a 1 Gate FE, but with a worse economy. If you 1 base, you'll maybe beat a bad player who just blindly all-ins, but lose horribly to someone who can transition out of it.
Besides, I think you'd find a good amount of people willing to take your money if anyone believed you were serious.
On September 14 2011 10:24 HansK wrote:
It's terrible and will lose every single time to a well 1/1/1. The safest opening a protoss has is 1 gate stargate and 1 gate robo and both can hold off 1-1-1 and I'll be willing to play paypal games vs anyone going that build and I will not prepare for 1-1-1 until scouted.
On September 14 2011 10:15 Toadvine wrote:
Artosis saying the double gas 1 Gate FE is scary against 1/1/1, when it's actually the best normal opening against it.
Artosis saying the double gas 1 Gate FE is scary against 1/1/1, when it's actually the best normal opening against it.
It's terrible and will lose every single time to a well 1/1/1. The safest opening a protoss has is 1 gate stargate and 1 gate robo and both can hold off 1-1-1 and I'll be willing to play paypal games vs anyone going that build and I will not prepare for 1-1-1 until scouted.
And what will you do after you scout the 1/1/1? If you throw down the expo, then you'll end up at the same place as a 1 Gate FE, but with a worse economy. If you 1 base, you'll maybe beat a bad player who just blindly all-ins, but lose horribly to someone who can transition out of it.
Besides, I think you'd find a good amount of people willing to take your money if anyone believed you were serious.
I am 100% serious. Anyone can PM me to set it up if they like, I'll be willing to let a moderator hold the money.
It's simple, you scout if they're going gasless expand, and if so you can 1 gate FE. If you see gas go 1 gate robo or 1 gate stargate and scout. If they're going 1-1-1 [the phoenix comes out roughly the same time as their starport is going up] you prepare with a 1 base zealot phoenix. You can keep scouting to see if they attempt to go a CC and follow it up with an expand your self.
You stay very equal and you will not die to the 1-1-1. Like I said, I'll play any terran player that is going 1-1-1 and hold it off with a build that has an option to expand if they are going gasless expand.
You will lose with Zealot/Phoenix after they reach a critical mass of marines and tanks. Whether they expand or not is completely irrelevant, since you will have no splash damage. In any case, I've seen a player infinitely better than you (NSHS.Tassadar) try that, and get absolutely demolished by a not especially well executed 1/1/1, so yeah.
I'd take your money if I had any experience playing Terran. Though I still don't really believe you'd do it. Either that, or you're completely delusional about your ability to defend itl.
You have no clue who I am or my credentials. You can not lose with phoenix charge lot to a 1-1-1 no matter what. The thing is you won't find anyone to take my bet because most pro Terran players know that if they go speedlot phoenix you will lose if you go 1-1-1, and any Terran who doesn't know it most likely won't be at a high enough level to feel confident to try and bet real life money to do it.
Since you do not know who I am and doubt my credibility, here is a quote from Thorzain a player I'm sure you're aware of due to following the tournament scene and games. Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257589¤tpage=36#715
+ Show Spoiler +
"In the 3rd game, Phoenix chargelots are regarded a pretty good counter to 1-1-1. But instead, MC decided to go for phoenix + mass stalkers with blink and aim for a base race scenario with a hidden expansion. Stalkers are shit vs 1-1-1 all in. He also invested a lot of resources in DTs."
Frankly, I don't give a shit about what anyone says about this build anymore, especially if they think something is a "good counter". I've seen so many good Protoss players in the GSL know it's coming, try all sorts of different stuff, and still get rolled, that I'm not going to believe anything I don't see work with my own eyes. Especially since I saw this particular solution (Chargelot/Phoenix) lose pretty decisively. Watch Tassadar vs Yoda on Crossfire in Code A August, if you're interested.
Frankly, considering pretty much every Protoss player on TL agrees the most reliable way of handling it is an early Nexus into 4 Gate Robo, and that is what MC tried against PuMa in his most successful attempt, you're just coming off as both arrogant and ignorant here. You can go over to one of the threads discussing the 1/1/1 and show your credentials off there, if you wish.
On that, MaNa just crushed PuMa's 1-1-1 with FE into 5 Gate Robo. Good micro, positioning and "where and when" to engage won him the game ezpz.
Which tournament was this?
EG's team league. Mouz vs EG. ACE match second game.
