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On September 14 2011 12:50 Alpino wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 11:12 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 11:03 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:44 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 10:38 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:30 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 10:24 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:15 Toadvine wrote:Artosis saying the double gas 1 Gate FE is scary against 1/1/1, when it's actually the best normal opening against it.  It's terrible and will lose every single time to a well 1/1/1. The safest opening a protoss has is 1 gate stargate and 1 gate robo and both can hold off 1-1-1 and I'll be willing to play paypal games vs anyone going that build and I will not prepare for 1-1-1 until scouted. And what will you do after you scout the 1/1/1? If you throw down the expo, then you'll end up at the same place as a 1 Gate FE, but with a worse economy. If you 1 base, you'll maybe beat a bad player who just blindly all-ins, but lose horribly to someone who can transition out of it. Besides, I think you'd find a good amount of people willing to take your money if anyone believed you were serious. I am 100% serious. Anyone can PM me to set it up if they like, I'll be willing to let a moderator hold the money. It's simple, you scout if they're going gasless expand, and if so you can 1 gate FE. If you see gas go 1 gate robo or 1 gate stargate and scout. If they're going 1-1-1 [the phoenix comes out roughly the same time as their starport is going up] you prepare with a 1 base zealot phoenix. You can keep scouting to see if they attempt to go a CC and follow it up with an expand your self. You stay very equal and you will not die to the 1-1-1. Like I said, I'll play any terran player that is going 1-1-1 and hold it off with a build that has an option to expand if they are going gasless expand. You will lose with Zealot/Phoenix after they reach a critical mass of marines and tanks. Whether they expand or not is completely irrelevant, since you will have no splash damage. In any case, I've seen a player infinitely better than you (NSHS.Tassadar) try that, and get absolutely demolished by a not especially well executed 1/1/1, so yeah. I'd take your money if I had any experience playing Terran. Though I still don't really believe you'd do it. Either that, or you're completely delusional about your ability to defend itl. You have no clue who I am or my credentials. You can not lose with phoenix charge lot to a 1-1-1 no matter what. The thing is you won't find anyone to take my bet because most pro Terran players know that if they go speedlot phoenix you will lose if you go 1-1-1, and any Terran who doesn't know it most likely won't be at a high enough level to feel confident to try and bet real life money to do it. Since you do not know who I am and doubt my credibility, here is a quote from Thorzain a player I'm sure you're aware of due to following the tournament scene and games. Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257589¤tpage=36#715+ Show Spoiler +"In the 3rd game, Phoenix chargelots are regarded a pretty good counter to 1-1-1. But instead, MC decided to go for phoenix + mass stalkers with blink and aim for a base race scenario with a hidden expansion. Stalkers are shit vs 1-1-1 all in. He also invested a lot of resources in DTs." Frankly, I don't give a shit about what anyone says about this build anymore, especially if they think something is a "good counter". I've seen so many good Protoss players in the GSL know it's coming, try all sorts of different stuff, and still get rolled, that I'm not going to believe anything I don't see work with my own eyes. Especially since I saw this particular solution (Chargelot/Phoenix) lose pretty decisively. Watch Tassadar vs Yoda on Crossfire in Code A August, if you're interested. Frankly, considering pretty much every Protoss player on TL agrees the most reliable way of handling it is an early Nexus into 4 Gate Robo, and that is what MC tried against PuMa in his most successful attempt, you're just coming off as both arrogant and ignorant here. You can go over to one of the threads discussing the 1/1/1 and show your credentials off there, if you wish. On that, MaNa just crushed PuMa's 1-1-1 with FE into 5 Gate Robo. Good micro, positioning and "where and when" to engage won him the game ezpz.
Sorry Mana barely held that off on a map with the longest rush distance 6 oclock to 12. So you are suggesting you need to play like that and barely hold it off and this strat is countered? lol
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On September 14 2011 13:22 Cartel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 12:50 Alpino wrote:On September 14 2011 11:12 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 11:03 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:44 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 10:38 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:30 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 10:24 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:15 Toadvine wrote:Artosis saying the double gas 1 Gate FE is scary against 1/1/1, when it's actually the best normal opening against it. It's terrible and will lose every single time to a well 1/1/1. The safest opening a protoss has is 1 gate stargate and 1 gate robo and both can hold off 1-1-1 and I'll be willing to play paypal games vs anyone going that build and I will not prepare for 1-1-1 until scouted. And what will you do after you scout the 1/1/1? If you throw down the expo, then you'll end up at the same place as a 1 Gate FE, but with a worse economy. If you 1 base, you'll maybe beat a bad player who just blindly all-ins, but lose horribly to someone who can transition out of it. Besides, I think you'd find a good amount of people willing to take your money if anyone believed you were serious. I am 100% serious. Anyone can PM me to set it up if they like, I'll be willing to let a moderator hold the money. It's simple, you scout if they're going gasless expand, and if so you can 1 gate FE. If you see gas go 1 gate robo or 1 gate stargate and scout. If they're going 1-1-1 [the phoenix comes out roughly the same time as their starport is going up] you prepare with a 1 base zealot phoenix. You can keep scouting to see if they attempt to go a CC and follow it up with an expand your self. You stay very equal and you will not die to the 1-1-1. Like I said, I'll play any terran player that is going 1-1-1 and hold it off with a build that has an option to expand if they are going gasless expand. You will lose with Zealot/Phoenix after they reach a critical mass of marines and tanks. Whether they expand or not is completely irrelevant, since you will have no splash damage. In any case, I've seen a player infinitely better than you (NSHS.Tassadar) try that, and get absolutely demolished by a not especially well executed 1/1/1, so yeah. I'd take your money if I had any experience playing Terran. Though I still don't really believe you'd do it. Either that, or you're completely delusional about your ability to defend itl. You have no clue who I am or my credentials. You can not lose with phoenix charge lot to a 1-1-1 no matter what. The thing is you won't find anyone to take my bet because most pro Terran players know that if they go speedlot phoenix you will lose if you go 1-1-1, and any Terran who doesn't know it most likely won't be at a high enough level to feel confident to try and bet real life money to do it. Since you do not know who I am and doubt my credibility, here is a quote from Thorzain a player I'm sure you're aware of due to following the tournament scene and games. Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257589¤tpage=36#715+ Show Spoiler +"In the 3rd game, Phoenix chargelots are regarded a pretty good counter to 1-1-1. But instead, MC decided to go for phoenix + mass stalkers with blink and aim for a base race scenario with a hidden expansion. Stalkers are shit vs 1-1-1 all in. He also invested a lot of resources in DTs." Frankly, I don't give a shit about what anyone says about this build anymore, especially if they think something is a "good counter". I've seen so many good Protoss players in the GSL know it's coming, try all sorts of different stuff, and still get rolled, that I'm not going to believe anything I don't see work with my own eyes. Especially since I saw this particular solution (Chargelot/Phoenix) lose pretty decisively. Watch Tassadar vs Yoda on Crossfire in Code A August, if you're interested. Frankly, considering pretty much every Protoss player on TL agrees the most reliable way of handling it is an early Nexus into 4 Gate Robo, and that is what MC tried against PuMa in his most successful attempt, you're just coming off as both arrogant and ignorant here. You can go over to one of the threads discussing the 1/1/1 and show your credentials off there, if you wish. On that, MaNa just crushed PuMa's 1-1-1 with FE into 5 Gate Robo. Good micro, positioning and "where and when" to engage won him the game ezpz. Sorry Mana barely held that off on a map with the longest rush distance 6 oclock to 12. So you are suggesting you need to play like that and barely hold it off and this strat is countered? lol
Xel'naga is good 1-1-1 map.
Yes it was countered, he won the game. Starcraft is not that simple, you don't have a really counter to the build, but I'm pretty sure that's one of the "doable" builds against 1-1-1. Don't lol me plz.
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how the hell did incontrol get in the bracket
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On September 14 2011 14:27 Benga wrote:
how the hell did incontrol get in the bracket
I think the OP says that other higher seeded players turned the offer down.
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Slept in and missed >< vods be awesome
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So in case someone was as sleepy and/or retarded as me, and failed to find the vods in a fast fashion this would be the link: www.twitch.tv/mlg_live
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On September 14 2011 11:12 Toadvine wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 11:03 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:44 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 10:38 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:30 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 10:24 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:15 Toadvine wrote:Artosis saying the double gas 1 Gate FE is scary against 1/1/1, when it's actually the best normal opening against it. It's terrible and will lose every single time to a well 1/1/1. The safest opening a protoss has is 1 gate stargate and 1 gate robo and both can hold off 1-1-1 and I'll be willing to play paypal games vs anyone going that build and I will not prepare for 1-1-1 until scouted. And what will you do after you scout the 1/1/1? If you throw down the expo, then you'll end up at the same place as a 1 Gate FE, but with a worse economy. If you 1 base, you'll maybe beat a bad player who just blindly all-ins, but lose horribly to someone who can transition out of it. Besides, I think you'd find a good amount of people willing to take your money if anyone believed you were serious. I am 100% serious. Anyone can PM me to set it up if they like, I'll be willing to let a moderator hold the money. It's simple, you scout if they're going gasless expand, and if so you can 1 gate FE. If you see gas go 1 gate robo or 1 gate stargate and scout. If they're going 1-1-1 [the phoenix comes out roughly the same time as their starport is going up] you prepare with a 1 base zealot phoenix. You can keep scouting to see if they attempt to go a CC and follow it up with an expand your self. You stay very equal and you will not die to the 1-1-1. Like I said, I'll play any terran player that is going 1-1-1 and hold it off with a build that has an option to expand if they are going gasless expand. You will lose with Zealot/Phoenix after they reach a critical mass of marines and tanks. Whether they expand or not is completely irrelevant, since you will have no splash damage. In any case, I've seen a player infinitely better than you (NSHS.Tassadar) try that, and get absolutely demolished by a not especially well executed 1/1/1, so yeah. I'd take your money if I had any experience playing Terran. Though I still don't really believe you'd do it. Either that, or you're completely delusional about your ability to defend itl. You have no clue who I am or my credentials. You can not lose with phoenix charge lot to a 1-1-1 no matter what. The thing is you won't find anyone to take my bet because most pro Terran players know that if they go speedlot phoenix you will lose if you go 1-1-1, and any Terran who doesn't know it most likely won't be at a high enough level to feel confident to try and bet real life money to do it. Since you do not know who I am and doubt my credibility, here is a quote from Thorzain a player I'm sure you're aware of due to following the tournament scene and games. Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257589¤tpage=36#715+ Show Spoiler +"In the 3rd game, Phoenix chargelots are regarded a pretty good counter to 1-1-1. But instead, MC decided to go for phoenix + mass stalkers with blink and aim for a base race scenario with a hidden expansion. Stalkers are shit vs 1-1-1 all in. He also invested a lot of resources in DTs." Frankly, I don't give a shit about what anyone says about this build anymore, especially if they think something is a "good counter". I've seen so many good Protoss players in the GSL know it's coming, try all sorts of different stuff, and still get rolled, that I'm not going to believe anything I don't see work with my own eyes. Especially since I saw this particular solution (Chargelot/Phoenix) lose pretty decisively. Watch Tassadar vs Yoda on Crossfire in Code A August, if you're interested. Frankly, considering pretty much every Protoss player on TL agrees the most reliable way of handling it is an early Nexus into 4 Gate Robo, and that is what MC tried against PuMa in his most successful attempt, you're just coming off as both arrogant and ignorant here. You can go over to one of the threads discussing the 1/1/1 and show your credentials off there, if you wish.
You need to stop being ignorant. At one point and time people always think something is over-powered until the solution to the problem is publicly known over time. I don't care what you claim to think I'm telling you that top terrans[including thorzain] know very well chargelot phoenix counters and destroys 1-1-1 all ins. On top of their confirmation, I'm also willing to back up my claims with paypal bets.
Saying some one lost to the 1-1-1 who is a good player or that the general population agrees means nothing at all, not even a tiny bit of meaning behind it. At one point all of TL agreed ZvP was impossible, yet new ways were found. I'm telling you right now that chargelot phoenix is a sure way to beat 1-1-1 and with time other people will find out it is.
By the way, naux feel free to private message me to arrange a game. I'll gladly accept your challenge.
EDIT:
chargelot phoenix can hold some variations of 1-1-1, those that hit at 8-9 min. If your opponent decided to turtle up and wait till he has 30-40 marines 5 tanks, 2-3 vikings 2-3 banshees, you will lose without higher tech.
To get 2-3 vikings + 2-3 banshes + 5 tanks and 40 marines takes a very long time to get out, and the great thing about phoenix's is you have a fast and reliable scout to see if they're waiting to push out. If they do that you can respond properly. My personal favirote is to follow up with storm due to having twilight already available If you're allowed to get storm vs marines which you will be if they wait for so many units, you still win.
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On September 14 2011 15:43 tiaz wrote:So in case someone was as sleepy and/or retarded as me, and failed to find the vods in a fast fashion this would be the link: www.twitch.tv/mlg_live
Thank you <3
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Tyler yes! I was sleeping when this was live but jsut read the results, awesome man!
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Sweden33723 Posts
To get 2-3 vikings + 2-3 banshes + 5 tanks and 40 marines takes a very long time to get out, and the great thing about phoenix's is you have a fast and reliable scout to see if they're waiting to push out. If they do that you can respond properly. My personal favirote is to follow up with storm due to having twilight already available If you're allowed to get storm vs marines which you will be if they wait for so many units, you still win.
I kinda agree with you --- I think (some form of scouting)-> into storm rapes the later 1-1-1's pretty badly, but I dont know if I agree with you about not expanding..
1 gate nex -> robo seems best to me, or nex first. When you scout him you can still storm rush if he's doing a late 1-1-1.
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Just watched the vods, gotta say the production is great. Really liking it so far. Although, the mouse clicking got annoying and JP's mic picked up like an echo in the room. But other than that, great work.
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I cant seem to get any Vods to work from twitch.tv.
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Nope, I have the same problem.
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Trying to avoid spoilers while going through this thread. VoDs anywhere? The twitch.tv link doesn't work.
Edit: Oh nm the slider for the time just doesn't work. I can still watch and skip forward/backwards. <3
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Nice results for the america round!
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On September 14 2011 12:50 Alpino wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 11:12 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 11:03 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:44 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 10:38 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:30 Toadvine wrote:On September 14 2011 10:24 HansK wrote:On September 14 2011 10:15 Toadvine wrote:Artosis saying the double gas 1 Gate FE is scary against 1/1/1, when it's actually the best normal opening against it. It's terrible and will lose every single time to a well 1/1/1. The safest opening a protoss has is 1 gate stargate and 1 gate robo and both can hold off 1-1-1 and I'll be willing to play paypal games vs anyone going that build and I will not prepare for 1-1-1 until scouted. And what will you do after you scout the 1/1/1? If you throw down the expo, then you'll end up at the same place as a 1 Gate FE, but with a worse economy. If you 1 base, you'll maybe beat a bad player who just blindly all-ins, but lose horribly to someone who can transition out of it. Besides, I think you'd find a good amount of people willing to take your money if anyone believed you were serious. I am 100% serious. Anyone can PM me to set it up if they like, I'll be willing to let a moderator hold the money. It's simple, you scout if they're going gasless expand, and if so you can 1 gate FE. If you see gas go 1 gate robo or 1 gate stargate and scout. If they're going 1-1-1 [the phoenix comes out roughly the same time as their starport is going up] you prepare with a 1 base zealot phoenix. You can keep scouting to see if they attempt to go a CC and follow it up with an expand your self. You stay very equal and you will not die to the 1-1-1. Like I said, I'll play any terran player that is going 1-1-1 and hold it off with a build that has an option to expand if they are going gasless expand. You will lose with Zealot/Phoenix after they reach a critical mass of marines and tanks. Whether they expand or not is completely irrelevant, since you will have no splash damage. In any case, I've seen a player infinitely better than you (NSHS.Tassadar) try that, and get absolutely demolished by a not especially well executed 1/1/1, so yeah. I'd take your money if I had any experience playing Terran. Though I still don't really believe you'd do it. Either that, or you're completely delusional about your ability to defend itl. You have no clue who I am or my credentials. You can not lose with phoenix charge lot to a 1-1-1 no matter what. The thing is you won't find anyone to take my bet because most pro Terran players know that if they go speedlot phoenix you will lose if you go 1-1-1, and any Terran who doesn't know it most likely won't be at a high enough level to feel confident to try and bet real life money to do it. Since you do not know who I am and doubt my credibility, here is a quote from Thorzain a player I'm sure you're aware of due to following the tournament scene and games. Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257589¤tpage=36#715+ Show Spoiler +"In the 3rd game, Phoenix chargelots are regarded a pretty good counter to 1-1-1. But instead, MC decided to go for phoenix + mass stalkers with blink and aim for a base race scenario with a hidden expansion. Stalkers are shit vs 1-1-1 all in. He also invested a lot of resources in DTs." Frankly, I don't give a shit about what anyone says about this build anymore, especially if they think something is a "good counter". I've seen so many good Protoss players in the GSL know it's coming, try all sorts of different stuff, and still get rolled, that I'm not going to believe anything I don't see work with my own eyes. Especially since I saw this particular solution (Chargelot/Phoenix) lose pretty decisively. Watch Tassadar vs Yoda on Crossfire in Code A August, if you're interested. Frankly, considering pretty much every Protoss player on TL agrees the most reliable way of handling it is an early Nexus into 4 Gate Robo, and that is what MC tried against PuMa in his most successful attempt, you're just coming off as both arrogant and ignorant here. You can go over to one of the threads discussing the 1/1/1 and show your credentials off there, if you wish. On that, MaNa just crushed PuMa's 1-1-1 with FE into 5 Gate Robo. Good micro, positioning and "where and when" to engage won him the game ezpz.
Which tournament was this?
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On September 14 2011 10:40 ODieN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 10:37 Crowned wrote:
Idra 2 : Destiny 0
Sheth 2 : incontrol 0
Tyler 2 : Slush 1
Major 2 : Kiwikaki 0 IdrA, Sheth and Major were obviously chosen to win, but Tyler vs Slush definitely surprised me. Great games.
MajOr winning wasn't that obvious of you look at his win ratio versus Protoss. He really struggles versus protoss.
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Does anyone know where to find the vod? I can't find it on mlg tv, searching for global invitational results in nothing.
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EPT
