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Stop with the stupid TT1 discussion, this topic is no place for it and you can all express your likes and dislikes in a more respectful and constructive manner. ~Nyovne |
On September 01 2011 04:49 Asshat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 03:48 IVN wrote:On September 01 2011 02:28 Mohdoo wrote:
I'm a huge fan of HuK, but people are letting themselves be fanboys. HuK isn't anywhere near the level of MVP and these games made that really clear. Even disregarding the first 2 games, MVP manhandled HuK in game 3. Outplayed, outsmarted...Just plain wrecked. He didnt outsmart or outplay him in game 3. What he did do, is demolish Huk in the previous 2 games, with imbalanced* all ins, so that Huk had to play ultra safe in game 3. And since the threat of an additional all in game makes you play defensive and safe (so you can hardly put any pressure on your opponent), MVP abused that, by playing ultra greedy. *4gt doesnt beat it, nor do 3gt robo or 3gt stargate. And there is no other possibility for protoss to get even more units out. So what you're saying is that in game 3 mvp outpredicted huk, sounds like the definition of outsmarting to me. But in the anti-terran biased point of view, it means "abusing the threat of another build"
No, it means that if there is no imbalanced build order, that you opponent can do, you dont have to overcompensate and play like a retard, in anticipation of him doing it.
Do you get that concept?
Back when 4gt was imbalanced, zergs would play safe and build more zerglings and spines, or tech to roaches, and would end up with far to few drones. Smart protosses have been abusing this by expanding instead of all ining. Thats not smart, its just using the imbalance of your race to mantaly fuck up the opponent.
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the 1-1-1 is a marine/tank/banshee push, however if the toss goes voidrays the 1-1-1 has the power to get 1 viking and then some medivacs instead of banshee/raven, this allows the terran to automatically beat any voidray opening a protoss tries to do
voidray openings do not beat 1-1-1. a voidray opening is pretty much a BO loss to 1-1-1 if the terran can just do what MVP did and react and make a viking/medivacs/more marines
voidrays dont beat mass marines, phoenix dont beat marines, gateway units dont beat marinmes. after getting to voidrays you have to tech to storm or collossi before the push hits, which isnt possible so you will die to the marine/tank push
MVP did a pure 1-1-1 in game2. a 1-1-1 build gets a fast 1factory(tanks), a fast 1starport(banshees), and possibly 1-3 raxes on 1base for the marines. a 1-1-1 is supposed to react and get vikings against voidrays and a couple medivacs make the marines way stronger. banshees are needed if the toss went fast 1base collossi because for each collossi the toss gets he has less stalkers and banshees raape stalkers and collossi and marines force collossi meaning the toss has no stalkers to fight the banshees
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Yay, no terran top 4! As much as I love July, I think that this GSL is MVP's though.
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Don't forget Julyzerg 2-0ed MVP last time to knock him into Code A if I'm not mistaken. I think July's style counters what MVP does very well. MVP takes risks to get ahead in the economic game.
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July in game 2 what the EFF was that?? Haha wow. He stayed at 140 supply for like 5 minutes against a max terran waiting for the ultra tech to kick in. How does he keep winning games like that? It's like BW all over again.
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On September 01 2011 05:04 Zerothegreat wrote:
Don't forget Julyzerg 2-0ed MVP last time to knock him into Code A if I'm not mistaken. I think July's style counters what MVP does very well. MVP takes risks to get ahead in the economic game.
The last time MVP played against July in a series it was a BO5 in the world championship where MVP thoroughly dismantled him in a 3-1. Notably he won with a series of gully pushes on Shakuras Plateau and Tal'Darim Altar.
MVP is heavily favored to take his match with July, he's already 2-0'd Nestea his TvZ is looking as good as ever.
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On September 01 2011 03:48 IVN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 02:28 Mohdoo wrote:
I'm a huge fan of HuK, but people are letting themselves be fanboys. HuK isn't anywhere near the level of MVP and these games made that really clear. Even disregarding the first 2 games, MVP manhandled HuK in game 3. Outplayed, outsmarted...Just plain wrecked. He didnt outsmart or outplay him in game 3. What he did do, is demolish Huk in the previous 2 games, with imbalanced* all ins, so that Huk had to play ultra safe in game 3. And since the threat of an additional all in game makes you play defensive and safe (so you can hardly put any pressure on your opponent), MVP abused that, by playing ultra greedy. *4gt doesnt beat it, nor do 3gt robo or 3gt stargate. And there is no other possibility for protoss to get even more units out.
So chasing his army across the map when he had enough stuff to kill him before MVP had vikings out was Huk show casing his brilliant decision making skills right?
Give it a break. Huk had an opportunity to win in both games 2 and 3 and threw them away with just poor decision making.
MVP doesn't make mistakes like that very often which is why he's a 2 time champ on his way to a third and Huk is not. MVP is a superior player, if you can't accept that well enjoy raging in the dark while the rest of us watch him take his third title.
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On September 01 2011 05:16 aresendez88 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 03:48 IVN wrote:On September 01 2011 02:28 Mohdoo wrote:
I'm a huge fan of HuK, but people are letting themselves be fanboys. HuK isn't anywhere near the level of MVP and these games made that really clear. Even disregarding the first 2 games, MVP manhandled HuK in game 3. Outplayed, outsmarted...Just plain wrecked. He didnt outsmart or outplay him in game 3. What he did do, is demolish Huk in the previous 2 games, with imbalanced* all ins, so that Huk had to play ultra safe in game 3. And since the threat of an additional all in game makes you play defensive and safe (so you can hardly put any pressure on your opponent), MVP abused that, by playing ultra greedy. *4gt doesnt beat it, nor do 3gt robo or 3gt stargate. And there is no other possibility for protoss to get even more units out. So chasing his army across the map when he had enough stuff to kill him before MVP had vikings out was Huk show casing his brilliant decision making skills right? Give it a break. Huk had an opportunity to win in both games 2 and 3 and threw them away with just poor decision making. MVP doesn't make mistakes like that very often which is why he's a 2 time champ on his way to a third and Huk is not. MVP is a superior player, if you can't accept that well enjoy raging in the dark while the rest of us watch him take his third title.
Ohhh boy, you terrans have it easy. Your race was above 50% since the release, and all the disgustingly imbalanced stuff, that your "heroes" were using to win games in a noobish abuso fashion, you have praised to heavens as the pimpest plays of all time. Bitbybit shit is not hard to do, nor is 111 and its mutations. 2 games out of 3 MVP used an auto win build, which even my grandma can use perfectly, and take down code S protoss players with it. Deal with it.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On September 01 2011 05:26 IVN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 05:16 aresendez88 wrote:On September 01 2011 03:48 IVN wrote:On September 01 2011 02:28 Mohdoo wrote:
I'm a huge fan of HuK, but people are letting themselves be fanboys. HuK isn't anywhere near the level of MVP and these games made that really clear. Even disregarding the first 2 games, MVP manhandled HuK in game 3. Outplayed, outsmarted...Just plain wrecked. He didnt outsmart or outplay him in game 3. What he did do, is demolish Huk in the previous 2 games, with imbalanced* all ins, so that Huk had to play ultra safe in game 3. And since the threat of an additional all in game makes you play defensive and safe (so you can hardly put any pressure on your opponent), MVP abused that, by playing ultra greedy. *4gt doesnt beat it, nor do 3gt robo or 3gt stargate. And there is no other possibility for protoss to get even more units out. So chasing his army across the map when he had enough stuff to kill him before MVP had vikings out was Huk show casing his brilliant decision making skills right? Give it a break. Huk had an opportunity to win in both games 2 and 3 and threw them away with just poor decision making. MVP doesn't make mistakes like that very often which is why he's a 2 time champ on his way to a third and Huk is not. MVP is a superior player, if you can't accept that well enjoy raging in the dark while the rest of us watch him take his third title. Ohhh boy, you terrans have it easy. Your race was above 50% since the release, and all the disgustingly imbalanced stuff, that your "heroes" were using to win games in a noobish abuso fashion, you have praised to heavens as the pimpest plays of all time. Bitbybit shit is not hard to do, nor is 111 and its mutations. 2 games out of 3 MVP used an auto win build, which even my grandma can use perfectly, and take down code S protoss players with it. Deal with it.
umadbro?
since its so disgustingly imbalanced, that's why its stayed this way for so long right? get off your high horse in which you think you can just declare something as imbalanced and think that's the final call
so terrans teching up is imbalanced no matter how it's done. making a factory in tvp should be bannable, and god forbid they make a starport, it should just boot the protoss out of the game since it's so imbalanced
please blizzard come fix this game that's so horridly imbalanced
lets assess what huks builds were:
1gate FE into robo, when a marine tank push is coming, nice amount of units there, i'm sure if mvp just sat there and let huk do his thing huk would have won just for you
3gate/stargate, void ray (which was countered), and then this game he indeed went allin with scvs because he recognized it as an instantly winnable situation based on seeing huk teching and expanding at the same fucking time (the viking after killing the void ray flew around and scouted huk entirely), 3 gate, stargate, robo, and then expand and have nothing for units.
game 3, mindgames or not, an attempted 3gate pressure, in which huk lost multiple stalkers where he shouldnt have, and mvp genuinely did outplay huk at every corner.
User was warned for this post
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On September 01 2011 05:26 IVN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 05:16 aresendez88 wrote:On September 01 2011 03:48 IVN wrote:On September 01 2011 02:28 Mohdoo wrote:
I'm a huge fan of HuK, but people are letting themselves be fanboys. HuK isn't anywhere near the level of MVP and these games made that really clear. Even disregarding the first 2 games, MVP manhandled HuK in game 3. Outplayed, outsmarted...Just plain wrecked. He didnt outsmart or outplay him in game 3. What he did do, is demolish Huk in the previous 2 games, with imbalanced* all ins, so that Huk had to play ultra safe in game 3. And since the threat of an additional all in game makes you play defensive and safe (so you can hardly put any pressure on your opponent), MVP abused that, by playing ultra greedy. *4gt doesnt beat it, nor do 3gt robo or 3gt stargate. And there is no other possibility for protoss to get even more units out. So chasing his army across the map when he had enough stuff to kill him before MVP had vikings out was Huk show casing his brilliant decision making skills right? Give it a break. Huk had an opportunity to win in both games 2 and 3 and threw them away with just poor decision making. MVP doesn't make mistakes like that very often which is why he's a 2 time champ on his way to a third and Huk is not. MVP is a superior player, if you can't accept that well enjoy raging in the dark while the rest of us watch him take his third title. Ohhh boy, you terrans have it easy. Your race was above 50% since the release, and all the disgustingly imbalanced stuff, that your "heroes" were using to win games in a noobish abuso fashion, you have praised to heavens as the pimpest plays of all time. Bitbybit shit is not hard to do, nor is 111 and its mutations. 2 games out of 3 MVP used an auto win build, which even my grandma can use perfectly, and take down code S protoss players with it. Deal with it.
Dodge my question more please?
You're just raging at this point. Your arguments have absolutely no legs to stand on. You watched the same games I did, but rather than call out Huk for his poor decision making you immediately default to balance whining, how you haven't been temp banned yet is a mystery to me. You did the same thing with Genius yesterday.
You're watching players get outplayed by players better than them. TOP is better than Genius, MVP is MUCH better than Huk. Their GSL records show that.
For the record. MVP didn't use the 1/1/1 all in build that Protoss players despise so much in any of his games. His first game was a 2-1 with no starport, and his second game we'll never know exactly what he would have actually done because HUK opened with Void Rays. MVP stopped that, and then counter attacked after HUK lost a bunch of units to his bunker and then tried to expand.
MVP caught him when he was vulnerable. That's something good players do. If HUK hadn't lost his units to the bunker he would have been able to hold the eventual attack better.
Game 3 MVP fast expanded, macrod up and crushed Huk in the mid to late game after Huk not only threw away a golden opportunity to punish MVP's greedy play, but then lost two horrible engagements for him.
But let's just rage and assume that if a Terran wins it's because of the 1/1/1 build and not for any other reason.
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yay 4/4 on code s ro8, was pretty easy to predict both tosses would lose, and july can easily take on ryung. also polt is pretty good and i thought he'd win. hopefully july can take on mvp.
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On September 01 2011 05:26 IVN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 05:16 aresendez88 wrote:On September 01 2011 03:48 IVN wrote:On September 01 2011 02:28 Mohdoo wrote:
I'm a huge fan of HuK, but people are letting themselves be fanboys. HuK isn't anywhere near the level of MVP and these games made that really clear. Even disregarding the first 2 games, MVP manhandled HuK in game 3. Outplayed, outsmarted...Just plain wrecked. He didnt outsmart or outplay him in game 3. What he did do, is demolish Huk in the previous 2 games, with imbalanced* all ins, so that Huk had to play ultra safe in game 3. And since the threat of an additional all in game makes you play defensive and safe (so you can hardly put any pressure on your opponent), MVP abused that, by playing ultra greedy. *4gt doesnt beat it, nor do 3gt robo or 3gt stargate. And there is no other possibility for protoss to get even more units out. So chasing his army across the map when he had enough stuff to kill him before MVP had vikings out was Huk show casing his brilliant decision making skills right? Give it a break. Huk had an opportunity to win in both games 2 and 3 and threw them away with just poor decision making. MVP doesn't make mistakes like that very often which is why he's a 2 time champ on his way to a third and Huk is not. MVP is a superior player, if you can't accept that well enjoy raging in the dark while the rest of us watch him take his third title. Ohhh boy, you terrans have it easy. Your race was above 50% since the release, and all the disgustingly imbalanced stuff, that your "heroes" were using to win games in a noobish abuso fashion, you have praised to heavens as the pimpest plays of all time. Bitbybit shit is not hard to do, nor is 111 and its mutations. 2 games out of 3 MVP used an auto win build, which even my grandma can use perfectly, and take down code S protoss players with it. Deal with it.
I would like to see this. Please stream the games for us (and make sure the camera is on!). I suggest HongUn as the sacrificial victim, since he's a pretty solid Code S player -- not too beastly, not too shitty.  And make sure to have your grandmother do a ceremony when she wins!
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On September 01 2011 05:26 IVN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 05:16 aresendez88 wrote:On September 01 2011 03:48 IVN wrote:On September 01 2011 02:28 Mohdoo wrote:
I'm a huge fan of HuK, but people are letting themselves be fanboys. HuK isn't anywhere near the level of MVP and these games made that really clear. Even disregarding the first 2 games, MVP manhandled HuK in game 3. Outplayed, outsmarted...Just plain wrecked. He didnt outsmart or outplay him in game 3. What he did do, is demolish Huk in the previous 2 games, with imbalanced* all ins, so that Huk had to play ultra safe in game 3. And since the threat of an additional all in game makes you play defensive and safe (so you can hardly put any pressure on your opponent), MVP abused that, by playing ultra greedy. *4gt doesnt beat it, nor do 3gt robo or 3gt stargate. And there is no other possibility for protoss to get even more units out. So chasing his army across the map when he had enough stuff to kill him before MVP had vikings out was Huk show casing his brilliant decision making skills right? Give it a break. Huk had an opportunity to win in both games 2 and 3 and threw them away with just poor decision making. MVP doesn't make mistakes like that very often which is why he's a 2 time champ on his way to a third and Huk is not. MVP is a superior player, if you can't accept that well enjoy raging in the dark while the rest of us watch him take his third title. Ohhh boy, you terrans have it easy. Your race was above 50% since the release, and all the disgustingly imbalanced stuff, that your "heroes" were using to win games in a noobish abuso fashion, you have praised to heavens as the pimpest plays of all time. Bitbybit shit is not hard to do, nor is 111 and its mutations. 2 games out of 3 MVP used an auto win build, which even my grandma can use perfectly, and take down code S protoss players with it. Deal with it.
Wow, it must be cool to have a grandma like that. Can you beat your grandma in SC2?
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On September 01 2011 05:37 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 05:26 IVN wrote:On September 01 2011 05:16 aresendez88 wrote:On September 01 2011 03:48 IVN wrote:On September 01 2011 02:28 Mohdoo wrote:
I'm a huge fan of HuK, but people are letting themselves be fanboys. HuK isn't anywhere near the level of MVP and these games made that really clear. Even disregarding the first 2 games, MVP manhandled HuK in game 3. Outplayed, outsmarted...Just plain wrecked. He didnt outsmart or outplay him in game 3. What he did do, is demolish Huk in the previous 2 games, with imbalanced* all ins, so that Huk had to play ultra safe in game 3. And since the threat of an additional all in game makes you play defensive and safe (so you can hardly put any pressure on your opponent), MVP abused that, by playing ultra greedy. *4gt doesnt beat it, nor do 3gt robo or 3gt stargate. And there is no other possibility for protoss to get even more units out. So chasing his army across the map when he had enough stuff to kill him before MVP had vikings out was Huk show casing his brilliant decision making skills right? Give it a break. Huk had an opportunity to win in both games 2 and 3 and threw them away with just poor decision making. MVP doesn't make mistakes like that very often which is why he's a 2 time champ on his way to a third and Huk is not. MVP is a superior player, if you can't accept that well enjoy raging in the dark while the rest of us watch him take his third title. Ohhh boy, you terrans have it easy. Your race was above 50% since the release, and all the disgustingly imbalanced stuff, that your "heroes" were using to win games in a noobish abuso fashion, you have praised to heavens as the pimpest plays of all time. Bitbybit shit is not hard to do, nor is 111 and its mutations. 2 games out of 3 MVP used an auto win build, which even my grandma can use perfectly, and take down code S protoss players with it. Deal with it. I would like to see this. Please stream the games for us (and make sure the camera is on!). I suggest HongUn as the sacrificial victim, since he's a pretty solid Code S player -- not too beastly, not too shitty. And make sure to have your grandmother do a ceremony when she wins!
I will do that. And no, not Hongun, he wouldnt even make her break a sweat.
No, I'm going to contact non other than MC, and I'm even going to be so generous and tell him, that she will be 111ing him that game. And he will lose, David Kim will get fired, and Blizz will nerf marines and/or MULEs.
On September 01 2011 05:39 Jaedong4thOSL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 05:26 IVN wrote:On September 01 2011 05:16 aresendez88 wrote:On September 01 2011 03:48 IVN wrote:On September 01 2011 02:28 Mohdoo wrote:
I'm a huge fan of HuK, but people are letting themselves be fanboys. HuK isn't anywhere near the level of MVP and these games made that really clear. Even disregarding the first 2 games, MVP manhandled HuK in game 3. Outplayed, outsmarted...Just plain wrecked. He didnt outsmart or outplay him in game 3. What he did do, is demolish Huk in the previous 2 games, with imbalanced* all ins, so that Huk had to play ultra safe in game 3. And since the threat of an additional all in game makes you play defensive and safe (so you can hardly put any pressure on your opponent), MVP abused that, by playing ultra greedy. *4gt doesnt beat it, nor do 3gt robo or 3gt stargate. And there is no other possibility for protoss to get even more units out. So chasing his army across the map when he had enough stuff to kill him before MVP had vikings out was Huk show casing his brilliant decision making skills right? Give it a break. Huk had an opportunity to win in both games 2 and 3 and threw them away with just poor decision making. MVP doesn't make mistakes like that very often which is why he's a 2 time champ on his way to a third and Huk is not. MVP is a superior player, if you can't accept that well enjoy raging in the dark while the rest of us watch him take his third title. Ohhh boy, you terrans have it easy. Your race was above 50% since the release, and all the disgustingly imbalanced stuff, that your "heroes" were using to win games in a noobish abuso fashion, you have praised to heavens as the pimpest plays of all time. Bitbybit shit is not hard to do, nor is 111 and its mutations. 2 games out of 3 MVP used an auto win build, which even my grandma can use perfectly, and take down code S protoss players with it. Deal with it. Wow, it must be cool to have a grandma like that. Can you beat your grandma in SC2?
I play protoss and she plays terran. Need I say more?
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On September 01 2011 03:35 Sc2Null wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 03:28 rareh wrote:On September 01 2011 03:20 Sc2Null wrote:
so wait..Huk makes it to the ro8 for the first time and gets slapped..and somehow he is the best foreigner in the GSL..iirc, the best foreigner with the most success in the GSL is currently jinro. Jinro did that in the past(2 ro4), now he cannot even make it past ro32 in code A and cannot even make it past open bracket in MLG. Don't get me wrong, Jinro is still a good player, really nice guy and i enjoy watching his stream(big fan). When people say Huk is the best foreigner in GSL, they mean currently, not 6 months ago, not 1 year in the future. Isn't he the ONLY foreigner in the GSL..and thats because mma failed a 1/1/1
I cannot talk about next month, since i don't know if anyone will accept code a invite or might win qualifiers.
This month,
Code A : thorzain(ro32), naniwa(ro32), fenix(ro32), sase(ro32), jinro(ro32)
Code S: Huk(ro8)
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On September 01 2011 05:35 aresendez88 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 05:26 IVN wrote:On September 01 2011 05:16 aresendez88 wrote:On September 01 2011 03:48 IVN wrote:On September 01 2011 02:28 Mohdoo wrote:
I'm a huge fan of HuK, but people are letting themselves be fanboys. HuK isn't anywhere near the level of MVP and these games made that really clear. Even disregarding the first 2 games, MVP manhandled HuK in game 3. Outplayed, outsmarted...Just plain wrecked. He didnt outsmart or outplay him in game 3. What he did do, is demolish Huk in the previous 2 games, with imbalanced* all ins, so that Huk had to play ultra safe in game 3. And since the threat of an additional all in game makes you play defensive and safe (so you can hardly put any pressure on your opponent), MVP abused that, by playing ultra greedy. *4gt doesnt beat it, nor do 3gt robo or 3gt stargate. And there is no other possibility for protoss to get even more units out. So chasing his army across the map when he had enough stuff to kill him before MVP had vikings out was Huk show casing his brilliant decision making skills right? Give it a break. Huk had an opportunity to win in both games 2 and 3 and threw them away with just poor decision making. MVP doesn't make mistakes like that very often which is why he's a 2 time champ on his way to a third and Huk is not. MVP is a superior player, if you can't accept that well enjoy raging in the dark while the rest of us watch him take his third title. Ohhh boy, you terrans have it easy. Your race was above 50% since the release, and all the disgustingly imbalanced stuff, that your "heroes" were using to win games in a noobish abuso fashion, you have praised to heavens as the pimpest plays of all time. Bitbybit shit is not hard to do, nor is 111 and its mutations. 2 games out of 3 MVP used an auto win build, which even my grandma can use perfectly, and take down code S protoss players with it. Deal with it. Dodge my question more please? You're just raging at this point. Your arguments have absolutely no legs to stand on. You watched the same games I did, but rather than call out Huk for his poor decision making you immediately default to balance whining, how you haven't been temp banned yet is a mystery to me. You did the same thing with Genius yesterday. You're watching players get outplayed by players better than them. TOP is better than Genius, MVP is MUCH better than Huk. Their GSL records show that. For the record. MVP didn't use the 1/1/1 all in build that Protoss players despise so much in any of his games. His first game was a 2-1 with no starport, and his second game we'll never know exactly what he would have actually done because HUK opened with Void Rays. MVP stopped that, and then counter attacked after HUK lost a bunch of units to his bunker and then tried to expand. MVP caught him when he was vulnerable. That's something good players do. If HUK hadn't lost his units to the bunker he would have been able to hold the eventual attack better. Game 3 MVP fast expanded, macrod up and crushed Huk in the mid to late game after Huk not only threw away a golden opportunity to punish MVP's greedy play, but then lost two horrible engagements for him. But let's just rage and assume that if a Terran wins it's because of the 1/1/1 build and not for any other reason.
mvp did a standard 1-1-1 in game2
mvp got the viking out slightly after huks fast voidray. which means mvp's starport was very fast. a viking that comes out shortly after a fast voidray = a VERY fast starport, which is what mvp did
mvp went rax, factory, starport. a pure 1-1-1 build before expanding
going rax, factory, starport on 1 base and then going marine/tank/banshee is the 1-1-1, but a 1-1-1 is also supposed to react to a voidray opening and get viking/medivac
if a terran is RETARDED and sees voidrays and he still goes marine/tank/banshee he deserves to lose. such a loss would be due to a terran mistake in using a 1-1-1 properly
the power of a 1-1-1 build is it can counter a voidray opening super easily by having the option of getting vikings to beat voidrays or medivacs to support marines well against a toss that slowed down his tech to storm/collossi by going voidray
voidrays dont beat mass marines, phoenix dont beat marines, gateway units dont beat marinmes. after getting to voidrays you have to tech to storm or collossi before the push hits, which isnt possible so you will die to the marine/tank push
MVP did a pure 1-1-1 in game2. a 1-1-1 build gets a fast 1factory(tanks), a fast 1starport(banshees), and possibly 1-3 raxes on 1base for the marines. a 1-1-1 is supposed to react and get vikings against voidrays and a couple medivacs make the marines way stronger. banshees are needed if the toss went fast 1base collossi because for each collossi the toss gets he has less stalkers and banshees raape stalkers and collossi and marines force collossi meaning the toss has no stalkers to fight the banshees
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Wait... do some people think HuK should've won? O_o
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i cant believe the fanboys that are bitching about balance in this thread, especially regarding the 2nd game....
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On September 01 2011 06:05 SKYFISH_ wrote:
i cant believe the fanboys that are bitching about balance in this thread, especially regarding the 2nd game....
huk made a mistake the 2nd game by teching, however
huk NEEDED to try to get robo tech OR twilight tech to beat MVP's mass marines
only storm/collossi can deal with marines. nothing else.
sentries allow toss to beat marines without siegetank support, but with siegetank support the sentries die in seconds cuz terran manually fires on the sentries and then theres no more guardian shield.
many people think the mistake is huk decided to try to get both techs at the same time
problem is, if huk didnt get the twilight thats only 300 saved minerals (twilight+blink). i highly doubt 3 extra zealots would have let huk survive
and if huk didnt get the robo, thats 200 saved minerals but no collossi so he dies to the marines anyway.
so huk had 3 options after his voidray opening
1) get no tech and try to use the 6gate to beat the mass marines+tanks. 6gate loses to 1base mass marine+tank because gateway units lose to marines and MVP attacked at 11 minutes before huks late expansion-after-voidray could start to payback income.
2) get robo tech trying to get collossi before the push hits. huk would still die because his gateway units lose to marines
3) get twiligh tech trying to get storm before the push huts. huk would still die because his gateway units lose to marines
or, i guess theres a fourth option of trying to get robo+twilight tech at the same time, which is what huk did. this fourth option loses the game even harder than options 1-2, but it pays off and gives a tech advantage if the terran is stupid and doesnt do a marine/tank push at 11 minutes. too bad for huk that MVP was smart and did this attack
so simply put, after huks voidray opening all 3 options he had were instant-lose options as long as his opponent was of platinum-league skill or higher
the reason huk encountered this problem is because he used a voidray opening against the blind 1-1-1 opening of MVP. and that is a build order loss for the protoss.
YES, mvp did a BLIND 1-1-1 in game2. mvp's viking came out shortly after huks fast voidray, meaning the starport was very fast. a very fast blind starport = MVP intended to do 1-1-1 no matter what
huk did a blind voidray opening in game2 before he scouted MVP was going 1-1-1. And thats the problem, because voidray opening are a instant build order loss to a 1-1-1 opening as shown in game2
the reason voidrays are a BO loss is because after the voidray opening the toss is left with 3 options as shown above, and all 3 options lead to defeat
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EPT
