EPTGrab that third gold! Don't let Nestea beat you to the fourth!
Jung Jong-Hyun! Victory!
P.S. Too bad for HuK, I symapthize with all his fans. He is the foreigner's symbol after all! Better luck next time! Keep practicing as hard as you can!
[GSL] Aug Code S RO8 Day 2 - Page 180
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments |
Stop with the stupid TT1 discussion, this topic is no place for it and you can all express your likes and dislikes in a more respectful and constructive manner. ~Nyovne | ||
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Thorn Raven
United States126 Posts
Grab that third gold! Don't let Nestea beat you to the fourth! Jung Jong-Hyun! Victory! P.S. Too bad for HuK, I symapthize with all his fans. He is the foreigner's symbol after all! Better luck next time! Keep practicing as hard as you can! | ||
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
On September 01 2011 06:01 roymarthyup wrote: mvp did a standard 1-1-1 in game2 mvp got the viking out slightly after huks fast voidray. which means mvp's starport was very fast. a viking that comes out shortly after a fast voidray = a VERY fast starport, which is what mvp did mvp went rax, factory, starport. a pure 1-1-1 build before expanding going rax, factory, starport on 1 base and then going marine/tank/banshee is the 1-1-1, but a 1-1-1 is also supposed to react to a voidray opening and get viking/medivac if a terran is RETARDED and sees voidrays and he still goes marine/tank/banshee he deserves to lose. such a loss would be due to a terran mistake in using a 1-1-1 properly the power of a 1-1-1 build is it can counter a voidray opening super easily by having the option of getting vikings to beat voidrays or medivacs to support marines well against a toss that slowed down his tech to storm/collossi by going voidray voidrays dont beat mass marines, phoenix dont beat marines, gateway units dont beat marinmes. after getting to voidrays you have to tech to storm or collossi before the push hits, which isnt possible so you will die to the marine/tank push MVP did a pure 1-1-1 in game2. a 1-1-1 build gets a fast 1factory(tanks), a fast 1starport(banshees), and possibly 1-3 raxes on 1base for the marines. a 1-1-1 is supposed to react and get vikings against voidrays and a couple medivacs make the marines way stronger. banshees are needed if the toss went fast 1base collossi because for each collossi the toss gets he has less stalkers and banshees raape stalkers and collossi and marines force collossi meaning the toss has no stalkers to fight the banshees Again, 1/1/1 into expand is a perfectly normal strategy that players have been doing FOREVER, there's no way of knowing whether MVP had planned to 1/1/1 all in, or if he simply reacted to huk's vray play, but the fact that Huk lost his viking, did no damage, lost so many units to the front push as wel, and then MVP scouting and seeing ALL OF HUKS BASE WITH HARDLY ANY UNITS AND 2 TECH PATHS GOING AT ONCE AFTER he went stargate is what triggered the all in push. You'd be a moron to see what MVP saw and not just go for the win at that point. | ||
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SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
On September 01 2011 06:25 IntoTheheart wrote: Why did the MVP games have a terrible, terrible score? Was it just 1/1/1 X 3? It was marine/tank pushes + 5 scv that huk died to Not all-in at all for mvp | ||
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ArchDC
Malaysia1996 Posts
The 1-1-1 all-in build, like any other all-in build is generally frowned upon because the lesser skilled player can still win with it. End of the day, counter builds will arise but it takes time. Half the rants cannot even execute it at that specific timing, or understand the full intricacies of that specific all-in timing and the various other similar timings so just stop bitching because players play to win. MVP can beat Huk in one thousand diff ways, and Huk can probably take games off MVP too. Right now MVP is probably THE Terran (overall) to beat and it is no easy task when he is on top of his game. He is a former A-teamer after all in BW, and players take years of crazy practice to reach there. If Huk continues practicing and refining like crazy for another year or two he *might* be able to reach there. Plenty of BW B-teamers practice for years and never make the A-team. MVP would probably win 9 out of 10 games against for any of the current SC2 players in BW. His mechanics, game sense and micro control is years ahead from the BW grinding (which is no joke). | ||
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VPVash
United States139 Posts
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
On September 01 2011 06:25 IntoTheheart wrote: Why did the MVP games have a terrible, terrible score? Was it just 1/1/1 X 3? game 1 he saw huk go for a 1 gate FE and decided to punish with a 2-1 marine tank push. not 1/1/1 at all game 2, huk tried to voidray rush him with stalker pressure in the front, MVP was going for a 1/1/1 banshee harass (don't know if he was planning to 1/1/1 all in, or simply expand after the banshee harass like old 1/1/1 expand builds do) but saw the voidray, cancelled the banshee and cloak and went for a viking, killed the voidray suffering little to no damage, and held off the stalker push when a tank popped out of his factory. His viking flew to huks base and saw an inactive stargate, 3 gates, a twilight council, and a robo all going at once off of 1 base with only 1 sentry and a handful of units and huk at the time the viking flew over the natural no nexus was built yet (but a probe was waiting there). This triggered MVP to throw down 2 more raxes instead of expand and get out medivacs instead of banshee. He elevator pushed (close air position on metalopolis) and while huk did nearly catch MVP out of position, he backs off and loses a few units in the process, huk then allows MVP to set up a bunker on his main platform, while tanks held at the bottom, once the tanks moved foward enough to siege the ramp it was gg with a bunker up top, marines pouring down from 3 raxes, and tanks positioned in key locations. Huk tried to hold off to get both robo tech going, and fast blink, but having gone all 3 tech routes, before expanding, he didn't have the unit production capability to hold. game 3 Huk opens 3 gate expand, and MVP opens a very greedy 1 rax -> cc -> 3 more rax -> another cc -> 4 gases, relying on 4 early marines to deny scouting. Huk loses several stalkers to marines without stim which weakens the eventual push huk tries to do. MVP smartly throws down 5 bunkers full of marines to hold his natural, and manages to also somehow keep his 3rd floating CC out of range of an observer that was flying by. Huk manages to build up a pretty fearsome army at one point including 4 colossus that MVP was unable to scout with a scan in huk's base, and when the engagement happens near huk's base, MVP is behind. MVP takes his 7 raxes pumping worth of units and what medivacs he had left, to drop harass and bait huk from attacking his vikingless army/base, huk obliges, and chases him around the map to try to stop the potential "doom drop" from happening until MVP manages to muster up a +1 10 viking army which soundly cuts down on the colossus count of Huk. Huk takes a 3rd, but MVP at this point is already running off of 4 bases and is taking a 5th. His macro is starting to overtake huk, and with ghosts on the field and a few bad colossus snipes, the game is over in the next engagement while a drop continues to hurt huk's main. | ||
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RedMosquito
United States280 Posts
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roymarthyup
1442 Posts
On September 01 2011 06:27 Kazeyonoma wrote: Again, 1/1/1 into expand is a perfectly normal strategy that players have been doing FOREVER, there's no way of knowing whether MVP had planned to 1/1/1 all in, or if he simply reacted to huk's vray play, but the fact that Huk lost his viking, did no damage, lost so many units to the front push as wel, and then MVP scouting and seeing ALL OF HUKS BASE WITH HARDLY ANY UNITS AND 2 TECH PATHS GOING AT ONCE AFTER he went stargate is what triggered the all in push. You'd be a moron to see what MVP saw and not just go for the win at that point. if MVP did 1-1-1 into expand against a normal protoss opening he is shooting himself in the foot because simply attacking with marine/tank/banshee is a instant win. why bother expanding. regardless, i guess you are right. "we dont know whether or not mvp would have did the 1-1-1 into instantwin option or the 1-1-1 into expansion option. we simply saw mvp respond to huks bad play after his vr opening and take a free win that way" thats basically what you are saying. i think i can see some holes in that logic first of all, you say that mvp saw hardly any units and 2 tech paths and took a free win. you are correct in that regard. however, the problem with your logic is it seems to imply huk had an option that would be any better at winning the game. the truth is, huk didnt. as i explained above in my previous post, huks blind vr opening only has 3 good options against MVP's blind 1-1-1 opening (and we dont know if mvp was planning to expo after that or not, but regardless...) the point is all 3 of huks options were auto-lose options if mvp was smart and did the 11 minute marine/tank attack. which mvp did do what triggered mvp's push doesnt matter. my point was any decent terran could have taken the free win at that point because blind voidray openings are a BO loss to blind 1-1-1 openings. sure, if the terran expands after the 1-1-1 against a voidray opening, he can lose. but as you said, mvp saw what huk was doing and took the free win. im simply saying that anything huk does after the voidray opening is pretty much giving a free win to the terran no matter what path the protoss takes. | ||
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Ysellian
Netherlands9029 Posts
On September 01 2011 06:37 RedMosquito wrote: Great games from july zerg. He's a true master at prioritizing. sure he doesn't spread creep why? cuz he wants to micro his mutas instead. Why doesn't he max out and spend all his money? cuz hes pooling for ultralisks or some other better maxed composition than ling bane. People need to stop hating on him and realize the genius behind his play. oh and when is the last time you saw a two rax work against him? You've been watching Day9  | ||
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akalarry
United States1978 Posts
game 1 was dumb. i don't know why he does 2 gas 1 gate fe. he would've been much better off getting zealot/stalker with 1 gas 1 gate fe. any sort of early push would have owned him. early sentries aren't good defending with. also keep in mind huk was playing horribly every game. he was losing free stalkers left and right, which he normally does not do because his micro is generally really good. | ||
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
July fightingggg His play style is so unorthodox and crazy... I mean, the players that face him HAVE to know that he's going to play that way, yet when he goes into that "mode" he seems unbeatable. Any small advantage, any small hole in your defenses, and he just gets in there and wreaks havoc. But he won't drone up behind it, he'll keep attacking and crush any attempt you have at a counterpush, THEN maybe drone up, lol. I love you July | ||
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roymarthyup
1442 Posts
On September 01 2011 06:44 akalarry wrote: please it wasn't autolose in game 2. first of all, huk literally threw away his void ray. also he could've held it off if he just went 6 gates with mass zealot/stalker, forgoing twilight council and cutting probes. he just needs to mass units and not tech until he sees the second cc land at mvp's natural. what he did was god at the beginning, forcing mvp to siege early by the watchtower, but he barely had any units. a nice zealot/stalker and maybe immortal flank using the gold with 6 gates would've destroyed that push. game 1 was dumb. i don't know why he does 2 gas 1 gate fe. he would've been much better off getting zealot/stalker with 1 gas 1 gate fe. also keep in mind huk was playing horribly every game. he was losing free stalkers left and right, which he normally does not do because his micro is generally really good. 6gate zealot/stalker (with or without sentries, with or without immortals) doesnt beat MVP's 11 minute marine/tank attack because mvp's attack hits before huks late expansion provides enough of a resource advantage to let huk win 1) even if huk didnt lose the voidray, doesnt matter. the voidray does 6 damage per attack and sucks against mass marines. and huk had just 1 of them. huk could have had 4 free/instant/bonus voidrays at the time of MVP's attack and huk still would have lost 2) huk had a late after-voidray-expansion 3) because huk opened voidray, every option he had after his after-voidray-expansion was an auto lose situation 4) you seem to think 6gates off a after-vr-expo beats mvp's push... sorry but it doesnt... but you can believe that if you want i guess other than your 6gate claim... what do you think makes game2 not an auto-loss ? | ||
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Geniuszerg
Canada454 Posts
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
On September 01 2011 06:49 Geniuszerg wrote: why is there so much balance qq in this thread.. do people really have nothing better to do than to blame losses of players on imbalance? apparently any build that techs to 1 rax 1 fact and 1 starport is a free win for terran now. any build that has that is a 1/1/1 all in build even if you don't have a starport somehow. | ||
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akalarry
United States1978 Posts
On September 01 2011 06:49 roymarthyup wrote: 6gate zealot/stalker (with or without sentries, with or without immortals) doesnt beat MVP's 11 minute marine/tank attack because mvp's attack hits before huks late expansion provides enough of a resource advantage to let huk win 1) even if huk didnt lose the voidray, doesnt matter. the voidray does 6 damage per attack and sucks against mass marines. and huk had just 1 of them. huk could have had 4 free/instant/bonus voidrays at the time of MVP's attack and huk still would have lost 2) huk had a late after-voidray-expansion 3) because huk opened voidray, every option he had after his after-voidray-expansion was an auto lose situation 4) you seem to think 6gates off a after-vr-expo beats mvp's push... sorry but it doesnt... but you can believe that if you want i guess other than your 6gate claim... what do you think makes game2 not an auto-loss ? i do think 6 gates with an emphasis on units would've worked. whatever the case, it wouldve been closer than just teching and probing up. also his void ray push, mvp only had like 4-5 marines. if he had his void ray at the front with his stalkers, he could've done so much more, maybe even breaking the front. you can speculate all you want, but better to try and do the right thing than not do at all. | ||
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
On September 01 2011 06:49 roymarthyup wrote: 6gate zealot/stalker (with or without sentries, with or without immortals) doesnt beat MVP's 11 minute marine/tank attack because mvp's attack hits before huks late expansion provides enough of a resource advantage to let huk win 1) even if huk didnt lose the voidray, doesnt matter. the voidray does 6 damage per attack and sucks against mass marines. and huk had just 1 of them. huk could have had 4 free/instant/bonus voidrays at the time of MVP's attack and huk still would have lost 2) huk had a late after-voidray-expansion 3) because huk opened voidray, every option he had after his after-voidray-expansion was an auto lose situation 4) you seem to think 6gates off a after-vr-expo beats mvp's push... sorry but it doesnt... but you can believe that if you want i guess other than your 6gate claim... what do you think makes game2 not an auto-loss ? The Autoloss was Huk's failed vray + stalker push, losing the vray with no damage, and losing his front push to 1 bunker some scvs and 1 tank was his death sentence. It wasn't his BO or MVP's BO that won the game, Huk screwed the pooch when he went for a risky vray play and failed to do damage with it. | ||
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jyisvip
Canada209 Posts
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babylon
8765 Posts
On September 01 2011 06:02 butchji wrote: Wait... do some people think HuK should've won? O_o Apparently. I don't know what all the complaining is about, personally. The better player won. And anyways, had Huk won, he'd get roflstomped by He-Who-Eats-MC-for-Breakfast harder than he got destroyed by our resident Game Genie Terran. (Hell, whether or not Huk would even have made it past July is unclear.) Though I guess I shouldn't really count TOP out. Still, anyone who thinks Huk should have won those games is blind. Huk played badly, period. Complain all you want about MVP's builds (preferably not in this thread), but Huk lost more than MVP won. I'm not trying to take anything away from MVP here, because he played very well but Huk's play yesterday was downright atrocious. Would you blame a regular GM's loss to a top pro player on imbalance? No, you blame it on the GM playing tiers below the pro's level, and that's what happened yesterday. This is like me, as a shitty Zerg, complaining that 11/11 is imba because I lost to a Master's player doing the build. Yes, it is powerful and nigh-on unstoppable in certain situations and on certain maps, but most of all, I'm just fucking shitty at Zerg. It was a long shot that Huk would even take one game off MVP in his current jetlagged condition, and it baffles me that people are QQing about a mediocre player having been beaten by a far superior one. (Not saying that Huk is always mediocre, but yesterday he was borderline horrible.) MVP probably could have done any decent build he wanted and destroyed Huk in that series. Also, the balance thread is over that way. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
1 stargate to only make one void ray : that's an expansive stargate 1 council that doesn't research anything 1 robo 1 nexus that completed way too late, it was just 400 minerals down the drain If to that you add all the "sloppy stalkers" (the stalkers you shouldn't lose with good micro, like vs no stim marines) When MVP pushed, huk had nothing. It was 10-11mn into the game, he had an army you'll have at 6 minutes in a normal game. Attacking the back of the base with the void ray was a strange decision, as stalkers are supposed to prevent the viking to kill your void ray (or better to kill the viking if an opening arise) It was just sloppy play in general, probably tilted from the quick loss in game 1. Huk said it all in his twitter : *hum, seems huk deleted his twit* :o it was saying "nothing to do with imbalance, I just played bad" | ||
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