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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On August 08 2011 20:01 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 20:00 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 20:00 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 19:59 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 19:58 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 19:57 Drazerk wrote:Late LR start!  Dongraegu vs Inca  In the top left is Inca In the top right is Dongraegu
6:00
Void on the way for inca getting a second starport ( He's on two bases ) Lair and a evo on the way for DRG who is also on two bases 8:00Voids and zealots going to harass Infestation pit on the way 9:10Inca loses a pheonix for free Pathogen gland + infesters on the way Twilight council and +1 for inca 10:50Inca loses all of his air units... three more gateways and a templar archive in production now 11:30Charge on the way for Inca DRG remaking the infestation put and getting +2 melee
12:00
Storm on the way for Inca
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so infestor/ling/ultra i assume
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chargelot/ht ;o may not be too terrible against ling/infestor.
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How good would a Nydus be right now considering bulk of his army is on the wrong side of the blocking gateways.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
Looks like he just wanted to be extra safe than doing a kill-move.
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On August 08 2011 19:58 itsjuspeter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 19:55 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:50 itsjuspeter wrote:On August 08 2011 19:46 fant0m wrote:On August 08 2011 19:43 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:40 itsjuspeter wrote:On August 08 2011 19:39 graNite wrote:On August 08 2011 19:26 Fyzar wrote:
1/1/1 incoming 100% Where is the 1.1.1 now? stop whining protoss, we can beat you without this 1base push too did we ever say you couldn't...? what are you trying to prove, i actually don't mind losing if it's a nice macro game with aggressive strategies like these. boost your ego somewhere else So you get to dictate the 'honorable way' an opponent beats you? Sadly a LOT of SC2 players feel that way. Especially Zerg (and by the way I play Z now, I switched races this summer). People like Psy, Destiny, and Idra think that anyone who comes with a push before 15 minutes isn't playing the game "properly." What am i dictating? I've read all your posts and you're just another cynical f**, I don't want to waste any more time than I already will be by responding to you Ocedic, I merely stated that the 1/1/1 is an extremely viable way to kill protoss but by no means the ONLY way, we have never stated that you need that to beat us. whether I feel it to be less of a day killer that I get cheesed out or outmacro'd is my own choice, stop reading too much into what people say and inciting negative feelings, you're scum. Yes, I do like to call out whiners for being whiners. And don't say 'you' as if you know who I am. I don't even play Terran, I play Random. I come here to watch and enjoy games but see scum like you derailing the thread about balance. That's why I call you out. You can cry about it if you want, but I won't stop until people like you go away. Lol alright, guess I'll waste a bit of my time tonight with ignorant, biased morons like this you. I love reading your posts having numerous people, not just me argue with you only to have you be a completely unreasonable and biased as* to everyone who has anything decent to say. I hope you know you're not wanted here, your opinions mean little to me, your needs as well, you can disappear the next day and your existence will have made no impact to anyone who reads this thread.
What's funny is you try to get personal, yet you're the one responding to me. Proves you're much more affected by anything I say than vice versa. The difference between me and you is I don't whine about a video game because someone outplays me. That's ultimately what makes your life more sad than mine, I'm afraid :D
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God damnit Inca you could have planned for this and put down 4 more gates at 8mins and hit at 11mins after killing the Infestation pit and this game would be over
But no you want to lose \o_O/
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i think this is worst air units control i've ever seen from a pro protoss
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Inca countering perfectly the lingfestor style (chargelot templars with storm)
But finally roach pit started.
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clash of strange builds, drg not looking as dominant as expected
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On August 08 2011 19:59 Ocedic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 19:56 Failsafe wrote:On August 08 2011 19:51 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:49 Failsafe wrote:On August 08 2011 19:47 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:45 HolyArrow wrote:On August 08 2011 19:40 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:38 HolyArrow wrote:On August 08 2011 19:31 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:26 HolyArrow wrote:
[quote]
Okay, so basically, you're calling upon historical precedent of a different, arguably better-designed game to justify telling pros to shut up and learn to play. You realize that 1-1-1 has been around for a year, right? It's not a hot new strategy that's taking people by surprise. People have had plenty of time to figure out good counters.
So then you are in favor of nerfing/buffing around flavor of the month builds? 1-1-1 has been around for a while but it only recently came back (it was gone for a few months.) I mean, did you watch the game? Taeja had 14 marines, 3 tanks and 2 bansshees against 3 stalkers and 3 sentries. You saying it's overpowered that the T force wins against 6 units? Might I recommend you start playing the novice maps, there are rocks that prevent rushes so you can play as greedy as you like. Your last statement is funny because you imply that I'm some terrible noob who needs novice maps, yet, a fast expansion (what I'm assuming your statement about being "greedy" is aimed at) is actually agreed upon by many good Toss players to be the best way to deal with 1-1-1. So who's the one who doesn't understand the game? Oh, and Tails had more than just 3 stalkers and 3 sentries, so maybe you're the one that needs to watch more carefully... Implying someone else's ignorance while simultaneously being ignorant yourself doesn't... really work. Hearsay isn't a good arugment, especially when you don't even cite your sources. 'Many good Toss players' agree with you? I can do the same thing, many good non-Protoss players disagree with you. Also, first you claim no counter to the strategy exists, now you say there is a way to deal with it. Make up your mind, balance whiner! Where did I claim that no counter exists? Strawman harder, dude. I feel like I've effectively communicated that there are counters, but they're not very consistent. I said right there in one of my posts embedded in that big quote tree: "For one thing, most people here don't think it's uncounterable, but just that the skill and effort that takes to counter it far outstrips the skill and effort needed to execute it." Read more carefully. I didn't cite my sources because I actually don't feel like putting that much effort into arguing with someone like you - this "hearsay" I talk about is just observing 1-1-1 discussion in LR threads. I could ask right here in this LR thread what experienced Protoss players think is a proper counter to 1-1-1, and I'm pretty sure that what they say would match up with what I'm claiming works. But I don't think that would convince you either, because then you'd play one of two cards: 1. There's no proof that the players in the LR thread are experienced Toss players 2. Players in an LR thread aren't enough numerically to constitute "many good Toss players". Thanks for countering your own arguments for me. So basically you admit you don't have an actual argument and thus don't back up your claims. Got it. Either cite your sources (waiting on these 'good Protoss' quotes) or don't make shit up. who are you? it seems pretty clear to the vast majority of viewers that there are problems with the 111 build. the onus is on you to support your claim that there isn't a problem. the fact of the matter is that it's a frequently used build with an insane win rate. what have you got? Yes, cause the majority of posters whining in an LR thread (most of the people here probably don't even play much, let alone at a level where balance matters) equates to a universally accepted notion about balance. You got me there. you're expressing an opinion contrary to everyone else and you don't support it. you're being a douchebag. i'm not arguing from the strength of majority opinion -- i'm just pointing out that you're being an ass. to support my claim i reference that 1-1-1 takes very little skill to execute (and this is pretty much undisputed) to support my claim i reference 1-1-1's extremely high winrate at every level of play, including when executed against heavy favorites who would otherwise be expected to win what claims do you use to support your argument? you can't simply say 'no you're wrong, i disagree with you'. you have to provide some sort of evidence for disagreeing. My point isn't that my opinion matters. It's that yours doesn't either. In Brood War I can cite builds that have high win rates considering the game has a lot of static, optimized build orders. Does that make them overpowered? Sorry but if every balance decision in SC2 was determined by bronze/silver league players in these LR threads, SC2 would be a terrible game.
There's a difference between high win rates of other builds and the 90% winrate in GSL of the 1/1/1 all-in. If you don't think there's something wrong with a build that has 90% winrate then I don't know what to say.
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Beautiful Gandalf wall-off with Inca's High Templar there
"You... Shall... Not... Pass!"
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On August 08 2011 19:59 Ocedic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 19:56 Failsafe wrote:On August 08 2011 19:51 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:49 Failsafe wrote:On August 08 2011 19:47 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:45 HolyArrow wrote:On August 08 2011 19:40 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:38 HolyArrow wrote:On August 08 2011 19:31 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:26 HolyArrow wrote:
[quote]
Okay, so basically, you're calling upon historical precedent of a different, arguably better-designed game to justify telling pros to shut up and learn to play. You realize that 1-1-1 has been around for a year, right? It's not a hot new strategy that's taking people by surprise. People have had plenty of time to figure out good counters.
So then you are in favor of nerfing/buffing around flavor of the month builds? 1-1-1 has been around for a while but it only recently came back (it was gone for a few months.) I mean, did you watch the game? Taeja had 14 marines, 3 tanks and 2 bansshees against 3 stalkers and 3 sentries. You saying it's overpowered that the T force wins against 6 units? Might I recommend you start playing the novice maps, there are rocks that prevent rushes so you can play as greedy as you like. Your last statement is funny because you imply that I'm some terrible noob who needs novice maps, yet, a fast expansion (what I'm assuming your statement about being "greedy" is aimed at) is actually agreed upon by many good Toss players to be the best way to deal with 1-1-1. So who's the one who doesn't understand the game? Oh, and Tails had more than just 3 stalkers and 3 sentries, so maybe you're the one that needs to watch more carefully... Implying someone else's ignorance while simultaneously being ignorant yourself doesn't... really work. Hearsay isn't a good arugment, especially when you don't even cite your sources. 'Many good Toss players' agree with you? I can do the same thing, many good non-Protoss players disagree with you. Also, first you claim no counter to the strategy exists, now you say there is a way to deal with it. Make up your mind, balance whiner! Where did I claim that no counter exists? Strawman harder, dude. I feel like I've effectively communicated that there are counters, but they're not very consistent. I said right there in one of my posts embedded in that big quote tree: "For one thing, most people here don't think it's uncounterable, but just that the skill and effort that takes to counter it far outstrips the skill and effort needed to execute it." Read more carefully. I didn't cite my sources because I actually don't feel like putting that much effort into arguing with someone like you - this "hearsay" I talk about is just observing 1-1-1 discussion in LR threads. I could ask right here in this LR thread what experienced Protoss players think is a proper counter to 1-1-1, and I'm pretty sure that what they say would match up with what I'm claiming works. But I don't think that would convince you either, because then you'd play one of two cards: 1. There's no proof that the players in the LR thread are experienced Toss players 2. Players in an LR thread aren't enough numerically to constitute "many good Toss players". Thanks for countering your own arguments for me. So basically you admit you don't have an actual argument and thus don't back up your claims. Got it. Either cite your sources (waiting on these 'good Protoss' quotes) or don't make shit up. who are you? it seems pretty clear to the vast majority of viewers that there are problems with the 111 build. the onus is on you to support your claim that there isn't a problem. the fact of the matter is that it's a frequently used build with an insane win rate. what have you got? Yes, cause the majority of posters whining in an LR thread (most of the people here probably don't even play much, let alone at a level where balance matters) equates to a universally accepted notion about balance. You got me there. you're expressing an opinion contrary to everyone else and you don't support it. you're being a douchebag. i'm not arguing from the strength of majority opinion -- i'm just pointing out that you're being an ass. to support my claim i reference that 1-1-1 takes very little skill to execute (and this is pretty much undisputed) to support my claim i reference 1-1-1's extremely high winrate at every level of play, including when executed against heavy favorites who would otherwise be expected to win what claims do you use to support your argument? you can't simply say 'no you're wrong, i disagree with you'. you have to provide some sort of evidence for disagreeing. My point isn't that my opinion matters. It's that yours doesn't either. In Brood War I can cite builds that have high win rates considering the game has a lot of static, optimized build orders. Does that make them overpowered? Sorry but if every balance decision in SC2 was determined by bronze/silver league players in these LR threads, SC2 would be a terrible game.
your opinion is that my opinion doesn't matter?
you can cite builds in brood war? what bearing does that have on this situation?
what do bronze league players have to do with anything? i'm a GM and i disagree with you and you still haven't made an argument
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On August 08 2011 20:00 XiGua wrote:
Fun fact:
Chinese commentators call the buildings after what the buttons which is needed to build it.
Example: Cybernetics core - BY "Bee-Why"
Barracks - BB "Bee-Bee"
Stargate - VS "Vee-Ess"
It's pretty funny.
Source?
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switch to roach is smart against zealot templar.
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On August 08 2011 20:00 Ribbon wrote:
Slow it down enough to let your economic advantage kick in, by forcing sieges and stuff.
How do you do that? Dunno. Bet it's complicated and involved a lot of smart engaging and micro. But I feel fairly strongly that's where the answer lies.
If you're close air metal though....ugh. No idea. I don't know how to stop it on even medium-distance maps. But that's a map problem, maybe?
It's a combination of the short distance and the easy wall to hide next to. Terran just hugs that wall along the 2 bases and your zealots can get like no surface area at all.
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They get fungaled again, and fungaled again and that is IMBA, that is what happens. Should be a timer after, you can't recast a stunning move on same target over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
It also doesn't hit friendly units, why?!?!
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On August 08 2011 20:01 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 20:01 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 20:00 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 20:00 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 19:59 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 19:58 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 19:57 Drazerk wrote:Late LR start! Dongraegu vs Inca In the top left is Inca In the top right is Dongraegu
6:00
Void on the way for inca getting a second starport ( He's on two bases ) Lair and a evo on the way for DRG who is also on two bases 8:00Voids and zealots going to harass Infestation pit on the way 9:10Inca loses a pheonix for free Pathogen gland + infesters on the way Twilight council and +1 for inca 10:50Inca loses all of his air units... three more gateways and a templar archive in production now 11:30Charge on the way for Inca DRG remaking the infestation put and getting +2 melee 12:00Storm on the way for Inca
15:00
parasite and overlord drop for DRG
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EPT
