|
United States97276 Posts
On August 08 2011 20:03 Nastiness wrote:
HTs cant be NP right?...
They can. Destiny NP high temps vs Axslav and stormed his probe line
|
Inca almost has +3 weapons though...
DRG's putting down another evo chamber to keep up.
|
On August 08 2011 20:03 Nastiness wrote:
HTs cant be NP right?...
Why not?
Edit: I recall a game where some NPéd a High Templar and then feedbacked the other templars ^^
|
On August 08 2011 20:03 Nastiness wrote:
HTs cant be NP right?...
I'm sure they can
I've heard tales of NP HTs storming the Toss
|
On August 08 2011 19:59 Ocedic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 19:56 Failsafe wrote:On August 08 2011 19:51 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:49 Failsafe wrote:On August 08 2011 19:47 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:45 HolyArrow wrote:On August 08 2011 19:40 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:38 HolyArrow wrote:On August 08 2011 19:31 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:26 HolyArrow wrote:
[quote]
Okay, so basically, you're calling upon historical precedent of a different, arguably better-designed game to justify telling pros to shut up and learn to play. You realize that 1-1-1 has been around for a year, right? It's not a hot new strategy that's taking people by surprise. People have had plenty of time to figure out good counters.
So then you are in favor of nerfing/buffing around flavor of the month builds? 1-1-1 has been around for a while but it only recently came back (it was gone for a few months.) I mean, did you watch the game? Taeja had 14 marines, 3 tanks and 2 bansshees against 3 stalkers and 3 sentries. You saying it's overpowered that the T force wins against 6 units? Might I recommend you start playing the novice maps, there are rocks that prevent rushes so you can play as greedy as you like. Your last statement is funny because you imply that I'm some terrible noob who needs novice maps, yet, a fast expansion (what I'm assuming your statement about being "greedy" is aimed at) is actually agreed upon by many good Toss players to be the best way to deal with 1-1-1. So who's the one who doesn't understand the game? Oh, and Tails had more than just 3 stalkers and 3 sentries, so maybe you're the one that needs to watch more carefully... Implying someone else's ignorance while simultaneously being ignorant yourself doesn't... really work. Hearsay isn't a good arugment, especially when you don't even cite your sources. 'Many good Toss players' agree with you? I can do the same thing, many good non-Protoss players disagree with you. Also, first you claim no counter to the strategy exists, now you say there is a way to deal with it. Make up your mind, balance whiner! Where did I claim that no counter exists? Strawman harder, dude. I feel like I've effectively communicated that there are counters, but they're not very consistent. I said right there in one of my posts embedded in that big quote tree: "For one thing, most people here don't think it's uncounterable, but just that the skill and effort that takes to counter it far outstrips the skill and effort needed to execute it." Read more carefully. I didn't cite my sources because I actually don't feel like putting that much effort into arguing with someone like you - this "hearsay" I talk about is just observing 1-1-1 discussion in LR threads. I could ask right here in this LR thread what experienced Protoss players think is a proper counter to 1-1-1, and I'm pretty sure that what they say would match up with what I'm claiming works. But I don't think that would convince you either, because then you'd play one of two cards: 1. There's no proof that the players in the LR thread are experienced Toss players 2. Players in an LR thread aren't enough numerically to constitute "many good Toss players". Thanks for countering your own arguments for me. So basically you admit you don't have an actual argument and thus don't back up your claims. Got it. Either cite your sources (waiting on these 'good Protoss' quotes) or don't make shit up. who are you? it seems pretty clear to the vast majority of viewers that there are problems with the 111 build. the onus is on you to support your claim that there isn't a problem. the fact of the matter is that it's a frequently used build with an insane win rate. what have you got? Yes, cause the majority of posters whining in an LR thread (most of the people here probably don't even play much, let alone at a level where balance matters) equates to a universally accepted notion about balance. You got me there. you're expressing an opinion contrary to everyone else and you don't support it. you're being a douchebag. i'm not arguing from the strength of majority opinion -- i'm just pointing out that you're being an ass. to support my claim i reference that 1-1-1 takes very little skill to execute (and this is pretty much undisputed) to support my claim i reference 1-1-1's extremely high winrate at every level of play, including when executed against heavy favorites who would otherwise be expected to win what claims do you use to support your argument? you can't simply say 'no you're wrong, i disagree with you'. you have to provide some sort of evidence for disagreeing. My point isn't that my opinion matters. It's that yours doesn't either. In Brood War I can cite builds that have high win rates considering the game has a lot of static, optimized build orders. Does that make them overpowered? Sorry but if every balance decision in SC2 was determined by bronze/silver league players in these LR threads, SC2 would be a terrible game.
There are 1 base all-ins with a 80% winrate in BW?
For the record, your argument could be used against any kind of balance change. I bet you had the same opinion about 5 rax reaper and beta VRs and Roaches.
|
On August 08 2011 20:02 Mike15xp wrote:
LOL HT wall
haha first time seeing that
|
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On August 08 2011 20:03 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 20:01 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 20:01 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 20:00 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 20:00 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 19:59 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 19:58 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 19:57 Drazerk wrote:Late LR start!  Dongraegu vs Inca  In the top left is Inca In the top right is Dongraegu
6:00
Void on the way for inca getting a second starport ( He's on two bases ) Lair and a evo on the way for DRG who is also on two bases 8:00Voids and zealots going to harass Infestation pit on the way 9:10Inca loses a pheonix for free Pathogen gland + infesters on the way Twilight council and +1 for inca 10:50Inca loses all of his air units... three more gateways and a templar archive in production now 11:30Charge on the way for Inca DRG remaking the infestation put and getting +2 melee 12:00Storm on the way for Inca 15:00parasite and overlord drop for DRG
15:30
Robo bay and a warp prism for inca
Baneling nest for DRG
|
On August 08 2011 20:03 Nastiness wrote:
HTs cant be NP right?...
why not ? If mothership can be, ht can be :p
|
On August 08 2011 19:58 gh0un wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 19:55 klops wrote:On August 08 2011 19:53 gh0un wrote:On August 08 2011 19:50 zeru wrote:On August 08 2011 19:49 gh0un wrote:On August 08 2011 19:41 Beyonder wrote:On August 08 2011 19:40 Akhee wrote:
Im seeing this micro as so common
even my gold friends can do this o_o
Yeah but to do this while macroing, expanding, multi dropping.. Uhm... Not uhm... You cant do two things at once, you can just do them in quick succession. Multitasking doesnt mean that you can do multiple things at ONCE, it just means that you can do multiple things more or less at the same time without forgetting about them. If he is continously microing his units, there is no room for something else, unless he skips 1 second of micro for 1 second of macro --> this is multitasking. Humans arent really capable of real multitasking except for breathing and thinking at the same time (maybe while scratching their head, but thats it). You think pro terrans arent still macroing between stuttersteps? Im pretty sure they are. If you dont miss a single stutter step, then no. Show me a single game in which someone does a stutter step for an extended period of time (without missing a single stutter step), while building units at home. You wont find one. i don't have a reply on hand but i will plant the seed for you. look for FP VoD's from Nada. macroing in between stimmed marine/marauder shots is classic Nada. Link to the vod (and exact time when it happens) or it didnt happen. You have 0.57 seconds between each marine shot to issue a move command and another stop command (or however your preference is for stutter stepping). As soon as you click something else, thats it for the perfect stutter step.
i don't care enough to. i'm not even involved in this discussion. i don't even know why it's happening. microing + macroing will always be better than whatever pinpoint accuracy you're aiming for. the better you can do it, the better you are.
a BW pro with 400 apm would average over 6.66 actions per second. it is not unreasonable to believe that 3-4 actions would take place during .57 seconds. 1-2 spare actions for macroing.
|
United Kingdom16710 Posts
DRG should really think about taking a 4th.
|
lol that was too much for one Phoenix
|
On August 08 2011 20:03 ZenViper wrote:It also doesn't hit friendly units, why?!?! No one would use them ever.
|
InCa looks quite solid in this game lol.
|
STORMUUUUUU too bad its on roaches and it actually does no damage lol
|
On August 08 2011 20:03 Failsafe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 19:59 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:56 Failsafe wrote:On August 08 2011 19:51 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:49 Failsafe wrote:On August 08 2011 19:47 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:45 HolyArrow wrote:On August 08 2011 19:40 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:38 HolyArrow wrote:On August 08 2011 19:31 Ocedic wrote:
[quote]
So then you are in favor of nerfing/buffing around flavor of the month builds? 1-1-1 has been around for a while but it only recently came back (it was gone for a few months.) I mean, did you watch the game? Taeja had 14 marines, 3 tanks and 2 bansshees against 3 stalkers and 3 sentries. You saying it's overpowered that the T force wins against 6 units?
Might I recommend you start playing the novice maps, there are rocks that prevent rushes so you can play as greedy as you like. Your last statement is funny because you imply that I'm some terrible noob who needs novice maps, yet, a fast expansion (what I'm assuming your statement about being "greedy" is aimed at) is actually agreed upon by many good Toss players to be the best way to deal with 1-1-1. So who's the one who doesn't understand the game? Oh, and Tails had more than just 3 stalkers and 3 sentries, so maybe you're the one that needs to watch more carefully... Implying someone else's ignorance while simultaneously being ignorant yourself doesn't... really work. Hearsay isn't a good arugment, especially when you don't even cite your sources. 'Many good Toss players' agree with you? I can do the same thing, many good non-Protoss players disagree with you. Also, first you claim no counter to the strategy exists, now you say there is a way to deal with it. Make up your mind, balance whiner! Where did I claim that no counter exists? Strawman harder, dude. I feel like I've effectively communicated that there are counters, but they're not very consistent. I said right there in one of my posts embedded in that big quote tree: "For one thing, most people here don't think it's uncounterable, but just that the skill and effort that takes to counter it far outstrips the skill and effort needed to execute it." Read more carefully. I didn't cite my sources because I actually don't feel like putting that much effort into arguing with someone like you - this "hearsay" I talk about is just observing 1-1-1 discussion in LR threads. I could ask right here in this LR thread what experienced Protoss players think is a proper counter to 1-1-1, and I'm pretty sure that what they say would match up with what I'm claiming works. But I don't think that would convince you either, because then you'd play one of two cards: 1. There's no proof that the players in the LR thread are experienced Toss players 2. Players in an LR thread aren't enough numerically to constitute "many good Toss players". Thanks for countering your own arguments for me. So basically you admit you don't have an actual argument and thus don't back up your claims. Got it. Either cite your sources (waiting on these 'good Protoss' quotes) or don't make shit up. who are you? it seems pretty clear to the vast majority of viewers that there are problems with the 111 build. the onus is on you to support your claim that there isn't a problem. the fact of the matter is that it's a frequently used build with an insane win rate. what have you got? Yes, cause the majority of posters whining in an LR thread (most of the people here probably don't even play much, let alone at a level where balance matters) equates to a universally accepted notion about balance. You got me there. you're expressing an opinion contrary to everyone else and you don't support it. you're being a douchebag. i'm not arguing from the strength of majority opinion -- i'm just pointing out that you're being an ass. to support my claim i reference that 1-1-1 takes very little skill to execute (and this is pretty much undisputed) to support my claim i reference 1-1-1's extremely high winrate at every level of play, including when executed against heavy favorites who would otherwise be expected to win what claims do you use to support your argument? you can't simply say 'no you're wrong, i disagree with you'. you have to provide some sort of evidence for disagreeing. My point isn't that my opinion matters. It's that yours doesn't either. In Brood War I can cite builds that have high win rates considering the game has a lot of static, optimized build orders. Does that make them overpowered? Sorry but if every balance decision in SC2 was determined by bronze/silver league players in these LR threads, SC2 would be a terrible game. your opinion is that my opinion doesn't matter? you can cite builds in brood war? what bearing does that have on this situation? what do bronze league players have to do with anything? i'm a GM and i disagree with you and you still haven't made an argument
Okay Failsafe, go apply to Blizzard to replace David Kim as the multiplayer balance designer and let me enjoy watching games in peace free from your balance whines in an LR thread.
|
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On August 08 2011 20:04 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 20:03 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 20:01 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 20:01 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 20:00 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 20:00 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 19:59 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 19:58 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 19:57 Drazerk wrote:Late LR start! Dongraegu vs Inca In the top left is Inca In the top right is Dongraegu
6:00
Void on the way for inca getting a second starport ( He's on two bases ) Lair and a evo on the way for DRG who is also on two bases 8:00Voids and zealots going to harass Infestation pit on the way 9:10Inca loses a pheonix for free Pathogen gland + infesters on the way Twilight council and +1 for inca 10:50Inca loses all of his air units... three more gateways and a templar archive in production now 11:30Charge on the way for Inca DRG remaking the infestation put and getting +2 melee 12:00Storm on the way for Inca 15:00parasite and overlord drop for DRG 15:30Robo bay and a warp prism for inca Baneling nest for DRG
16:00
Fourth base on the way for DRG
Huge storms hit a lot of DRGs army forcing a retreat
|
On August 08 2011 20:03 Shellshock1122 wrote:They can. Destiny NP high temps vs Axslav and stormed his probe line
i thought they made HTs psyoinic (spelling?) so they couldnt be NP.. but might be a dream :D
|
I understand that infestors eat sentries alive, but I feel like toss game against z underrates it in the lategame. Remember when MC litterally raped Julyzerg?
|
...infestor owned that line
|
Nobody can say that Inca has bad PvZ after this tbh
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
