|
|
|
|
|
On August 08 2011 19:55 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 19:53 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:51 HolyArrow wrote:On August 08 2011 19:47 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:45 HolyArrow wrote:On August 08 2011 19:40 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:38 HolyArrow wrote:On August 08 2011 19:31 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:26 HolyArrow wrote:On August 08 2011 19:24 Ocedic wrote:
[quote]
Maybe they should stop QQ? There are numerous examples throughout BROOD WAR history where matchups were considered much one sided, then someone (Boxer, Bisu, JulyZerg, Savior, etc) came along and shook up the entire matchup with something new.
But no, modern gamers can't be bothered with that. Let's just cry for nerfs every time a strategy is 'too hard' to counter. Okay, so basically, you're calling upon historical precedent of a different, arguably better-designed game to justify telling pros to shut up and learn to play. You realize that 1-1-1 has been around for a year, right? It's not a hot new strategy that's taking people by surprise. People have had plenty of time to figure out good counters. So then you are in favor of nerfing/buffing around flavor of the month builds? 1-1-1 has been around for a while but it only recently came back (it was gone for a few months.) I mean, did you watch the game? Taeja had 14 marines, 3 tanks and 2 bansshees against 3 stalkers and 3 sentries. You saying it's overpowered that the T force wins against 6 units? Might I recommend you start playing the novice maps, there are rocks that prevent rushes so you can play as greedy as you like. Your last statement is funny because you imply that I'm some terrible noob who needs novice maps, yet, a fast expansion (what I'm assuming your statement about being "greedy" is aimed at) is actually agreed upon by many good Toss players to be the best way to deal with 1-1-1. So who's the one who doesn't understand the game? Oh, and Tails had more than just 3 stalkers and 3 sentries, so maybe you're the one that needs to watch more carefully... Implying someone else's ignorance while simultaneously being ignorant yourself doesn't... really work. Hearsay isn't a good arugment, especially when you don't even cite your sources. 'Many good Toss players' agree with you? I can do the same thing, many good non-Protoss players disagree with you. Also, first you claim no counter to the strategy exists, now you say there is a way to deal with it. Make up your mind, balance whiner! Where did I claim that no counter exists? Strawman harder, dude. I feel like I've effectively communicated that there are counters, but they're not very consistent. I said right there in one of my posts embedded in that big quote tree: "For one thing, most people here don't think it's uncounterable, but just that the skill and effort that takes to counter it far outstrips the skill and effort needed to execute it." Read more carefully. I didn't cite my sources because I actually don't feel like putting that much effort into arguing with someone like you - this "hearsay" I talk about is just observing 1-1-1 discussion in LR threads. I could ask right here in this LR thread what experienced Protoss players think is a proper counter to 1-1-1, and I'm pretty sure that what they say would match up with what I'm claiming works. But I don't think that would convince you either, because then you'd play one of two cards: 1. There's no proof that the players in the LR thread are experienced Toss players 2. Players in an LR thread aren't enough numerically to constitute "many good Toss players". Thanks for countering your own arguments for me. So basically you admit you don't have an actual argument and thus don't back up your claims. Got it. Either cite your sources (waiting on these 'good Protoss' quotes) or don't make shit up. I'm not making shit up. I'm sitting here knowing that I'm right, laughing at how ignorant you are. This is one of those situations where I know something to be a truth, and I'm watching someone act as contrary and aggressive as possible, while crossing his arms telling me to prove that truth - but, your attitude makes me not care enough to bother proving anything to you, so I'm just sitting here, slightly annoyed but mostly amused by your sheer ignorance. Ah, good old "I'm actually laughing at you" Internet argument. You're still devoid of actual facts to back up anything you say. Good to know :D The facts are right here. You can go back to some 1-1-1 discussion early in this LR thread and they're right there. You're just too unpleasant for me to actually want to make the effort to go back and get those facts for you. I can ask right here, if you want: To any experienced Protoss players in this LR thread: What is, in your opinion, the best way to deal with a 1-1-1 all-in?
Slow it down enough to let your economic advantage kick in, by forcing sieges and stuff.
How do you do that? Dunno. Bet it's complicated and involved a lot of smart engaging and micro. But I feel fairly strongly that's where the answer lies.
If you're close air metal though....ugh. No idea. I don't know how to stop it on even medium-distance maps. But that's a map problem, maybe?
|
|
|
korean zergs puts their buildings in the wierdest locations
|
SICK control by DRG, getting all 3 voidrays.
|
I think DRG came out ahead on that one?
|
|
|
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On August 08 2011 20:00 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 19:59 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 19:58 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 19:57 Drazerk wrote:Late LR start!  Dongraegu vs Inca  In the top left is Inca In the top right is Dongraegu
6:00
Void on the way for inca getting a second starport ( He's on two bases ) Lair and a evo on the way for DRG who is also on two bases 8:00Voids and zealots going to harass Infestation pit on the way 9:10Inca loses a pheonix for free Pathogen gland + infesters on the way Twilight council and +1 for inca
10:50
Inca loses all of his air units...
three more gateways and a templar archive in production now
|
looking pretty bad for inca so far lol
|
if he connected his bases that would have been so much smoother
|
DRG is so far ahead now. He has no army left.
|
What the fuck, did two infestors just die literally instantly? That was insane lolo
|
United Kingdom16710 Posts
Oh InCa doing a huge all-in.
|
The Inca Rule: Lose all your void rays unnecessarily.
|
Jesus, that was solid defense. DRG is so good.
Also! Infestors in the GSL!
|
Inca had to retain those VR's, big blunder.
|
On August 08 2011 19:56 Leporello wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 19:49 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:47 Dfgj wrote:On August 08 2011 19:46 fant0m wrote:On August 08 2011 19:43 Ocedic wrote:On August 08 2011 19:40 itsjuspeter wrote:On August 08 2011 19:39 graNite wrote:On August 08 2011 19:26 Fyzar wrote:
1/1/1 incoming 100% Where is the 1.1.1 now? stop whining protoss, we can beat you without this 1base push too did we ever say you couldn't...? what are you trying to prove, i actually don't mind losing if it's a nice macro game with aggressive strategies like these. boost your ego somewhere else So you get to dictate the 'honorable way' an opponent beats you? Sadly a LOT of SC2 players feel that way. Especially Zerg (and by the way I play Z now, I switched races this summer). People like Psy, Destiny, and Idra think that anyone who comes with a push before 15 minutes isn't playing the game "properly." If you think the skill used by Taeja and required to prepare in game 1 and game 3 was anywhere near comparable you're deluding yourself. You know what takes skill? Winning. There's some Zerg-propaganda influenced mindset that macro games 'take more skill.' In Brood War, yes. But in SC2 macro is so easy that I basically laugh in your face at that notion. It's just an excuse for greedy players to look down on rushes and cheeses so they have an excuse when they aren't prepared for those. Late game takes more skill than early/mid game. Because there's simply more units, more buildings to macro, more to do. Players who routinely play towards a late game have a point in thinking they are playing at a higher skill level than players who routinely strive to kill their opponent with one base. Granted, wins are the ultimate gauge of skill, but thus far in SC2, it's easier for players to learn a few all-in builds than learn the more complex late-game counters and unit compositions. And "in SC2, macro is so easy"? What, are you a pro? It's easier than Brood War in some aspects, but it certainly isn't easy to the point that all players -- even at the pro level -- show the same understanding and level of proper macro. What a BS statement.
Frankly, I don't think the game is balanced in the lategame at all. All the timings are gone, and macroing in the late game is a LOT easier than it was in BW and most people will end up banking a lot of minerals anyway and it just isn't important to be constantly keeping your minerals low when you're maxed. In BW you're not even maxed most of the time because you're constantly engaging while late game sc2 is pretty turtle style. Just because you have more units doesn't mean it takes more skill.
|
On August 08 2011 20:00 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 19:59 illumn wrote:
Stop arguing with Ocedic. Regardless of who is right, he clearly wants the reactions you are giving him. Well, it's pretty clear that he's an unpleasant troll. I personally get a kick out of biting to that stuff, though.
It was obvious from the start, just check his post history, it makes me smile when he talks, I love trolls like him who believe in only the cra* they spew out.
|
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On August 08 2011 20:00 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 20:00 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 19:59 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 19:58 Drazerk wrote:On August 08 2011 19:57 Drazerk wrote:Late LR start! Dongraegu vs Inca In the top left is Inca In the top right is Dongraegu
6:00
Void on the way for inca getting a second starport ( He's on two bases ) Lair and a evo on the way for DRG who is also on two bases 8:00Voids and zealots going to harass Infestation pit on the way 9:10Inca loses a pheonix for free Pathogen gland + infesters on the way Twilight council and +1 for inca 10:50Inca loses all of his air units... three more gateways and a templar archive in production now
11:30
Charge on the way for Inca
DRG remaking the infestation put and getting +2 melee
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
