On August 08 2011 19:24 Ocedic wrote:
[quote]

Maybe they should stop QQ? There are numerous examples throughout BROOD WAR history where matchups were considered much one sided, then someone (Boxer, Bisu, JulyZerg, Savior, etc) came along and shook up the entire matchup with something new.

But no, modern gamers can't be bothered with that. Let's just cry for nerfs every time a strategy is 'too hard' to counter.

Okay, so basically, you're calling upon historical precedent of a different, arguably better-designed game to justify telling pros to shut up and learn to play. You realize that 1-1-1 has been around for a year, right? It's not a hot new strategy that's taking people by surprise. People have had plenty of time to figure out good counters.

So then you are in favor of nerfing/buffing around flavor of the month builds? 1-1-1 has been around for a while but it only recently came back (it was gone for a few months.) I mean, did you watch the game? Taeja had 14 marines, 3 tanks and 2 bansshees against 3 stalkers and 3 sentries. You saying it's overpowered that the T force wins against 6 units?

Might I recommend you start playing the novice maps, there are rocks that prevent rushes so you can play as greedy as you like.

Your last statement is funny because you imply that I'm some terrible noob who needs novice maps, yet, a fast expansion (what I'm assuming your statement about being "greedy" is aimed at) is actually agreed upon by many good Toss players to be the best way to deal with 1-1-1. So who's the one who doesn't understand the game? Oh, and Tails had more than just 3 stalkers and 3 sentries, so maybe you're the one that needs to watch more carefully... Implying someone else's ignorance while simultaneously being ignorant yourself doesn't... really work.

Hearsay isn't a good arugment, especially when you don't even cite your sources. 'Many good Toss players' agree with you? I can do the same thing, many good non-Protoss players disagree with you.

Also, first you claim no counter to the strategy exists, now you say there is a way to deal with it. Make up your mind, balance whiner!

Where did I claim that no counter exists? Strawman harder, dude. I feel like I've effectively communicated that there are counters, but they're not very consistent. I said right there in one of my posts embedded in that big quote tree: "For one thing, most people here don't think it's uncounterable, but just that the skill and effort that takes to counter it far outstrips the skill and effort needed to execute it." Read more carefully.

I didn't cite my sources because I actually don't feel like putting that much effort into arguing with someone like you - this "hearsay" I talk about is just observing 1-1-1 discussion in LR threads. I could ask right here in this LR thread what experienced Protoss players think is a proper counter to 1-1-1, and I'm pretty sure that what they say would match up with what I'm claiming works. But I don't think that would convince you either, because then you'd play one of two cards:

1. There's no proof that the players in the LR thread are experienced Toss players
2. Players in an LR thread aren't enough numerically to constitute "many good Toss players".

Thanks for countering your own arguments for me. So basically you admit you don't have an actual argument and thus don't back up your claims. Got it. Either cite your sources (waiting on these 'good Protoss' quotes) or don't make shit up.

who are you?

it seems pretty clear to the vast majority of viewers that there are problems with the 111 build. the onus is on you to support your claim that there isn't a problem. the fact of the matter is that it's a frequently used build with an insane win rate.

what have you got?

Yes, cause the majority of posters whining in an LR thread (most of the people here probably don't even play much, let alone at a level where balance matters) equates to a universally accepted notion about balance. You got me there.

you're expressing an opinion contrary to everyone else and you don't support it. you're being a douchebag. i'm not arguing from the strength of majority opinion -- i'm just pointing out that you're being an ass.

to support my claim i reference that 1-1-1 takes very little skill to execute (and this is pretty much undisputed)

to support my claim i reference 1-1-1's extremely high winrate at every level of play, including when executed against heavy favorites who would otherwise be expected to win

what claims do you use to support your argument? you can't simply say 'no you're wrong, i disagree with you'. you have to provide some sort of evidence for disagreeing.

My point isn't that my opinion matters. It's that yours doesn't either. In Brood War I can cite builds that have high win rates considering the game has a lot of static, optimized build orders. Does that make them overpowered?

Sorry but if every balance decision in SC2 was determined by bronze/silver league players in these LR threads, SC2 would be a terrible game.

Drazerk

United Kingdom31255 Posts

August 08 2011 11:00 GMT

#3009

On August 08 2011 19:59 Drazerk wrote:

Show nested quote +

8:00

Voids and zealots going to harass

Infestation pit on the way

9:10

Inca loses a pheonix for free

Pathogen gland + infesters on the way

Twilight council and +1 for inca

NothingGood

United States23 Posts

August 08 2011 11:00 GMT

#3010

Rally phoenix to queens, like a boss

hugman

Sweden4644 Posts

August 08 2011 11:00 GMT

#3011

Inca, from Code-S finals to Code-B in record time!

Moonwrath

United States9568 Posts

August 08 2011 11:00 GMT

#3012

Holy shit that was close on the infestation pit

gehgrfhgrh

Germany294 Posts

August 08 2011 11:00 GMT

#3013

On August 08 2011 19:57 bittman wrote:

Show nested quote +

You're right. Guess Naniwa, Sase, Thorzain and Fenix are all doomed with their 0 GSL wins.

You're correct. More than RO16 would be really crazy.
DRG is not bad because it's his his first GSL, its because he failed to qualify for CodeA before.

Sabu113

United States11087 Posts

August 08 2011 11:00 GMT

#3014

NO YOU HADHTOUQ#G O

ARGH you had that fungal. T_T IINCA Anti-timing. Infestation pit down. Voids are gonna die.

edit; 7gates game is going to end soon.

itsjuspeter

United States668 Posts

August 08 2011 11:00 GMT

#3015

Oh Ocedic, how many arguments do you have going on at once? I need some attention from you.

XiGua

Sweden3085 Posts

August 08 2011 11:00 GMT

#3016

Fun fact:
Chinese commentators call the buildings after what the buttons which is needed to build it.

Example: Cybernetics core - BY "Bee-Why"
Barracks - BB "Bee-Bee"
Stargate - VS "Vee-Ess"

It's pretty funny.