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On August 03 2011 11:17 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:15 bennyaus wrote:On August 03 2011 11:15 Crazypyro1 wrote:On August 03 2011 11:13 bennyaus wrote:On August 03 2011 11:11 MrCon wrote:On August 03 2011 11:09 Fatalize wrote:On August 03 2011 11:08 Zath.erin wrote:On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote:
i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE. - Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix - Corruptors are awful against anything So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine. Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had. Corrupters are awful against everything? What game do you play. They are amazing vs Phoenix/Carriers (in small numbers)/Vikings/Battlecruisers. This reminds me of an earlier SOTG where Painuser was saying how good Zealots were and Inc/Tyler argued against him saying they're worthless. Lo and behold, Chargelots are like the central unit of the PvT metagame right now. People need to try these things before saying they're worthless. He meant corrupters are awful against everything else in the PvZ matchup. No one uses carriers and as soon as the phoenixes die, you realize you have 40 food sitting around in the air while you get raped by archon/zealot. You realise that you have killed 40 food of his army though? and that 40 food can turn into Broodlords which hard counter Zealot/Archon. Except because of the huge amount of Corruptors you have to make, you can't hold his ground force with whatever ground force you have. You think he's gonna sit there and wait for you to get hive tech and greater spire and morph into broods just because you killed his phoenixes? Rofl.
slush has beaten kiwi at MLG 2-0
he went quick 3rd 70 drones -> Roach/corruptors and ran over kiwi
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On August 03 2011 11:23 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:22 MrCon wrote:On August 03 2011 11:21 SafeAsCheese wrote:On August 03 2011 11:20 Heavenly wrote:On August 03 2011 11:17 Flonomenalz wrote:On August 03 2011 11:15 bennyaus wrote:On August 03 2011 11:15 Crazypyro1 wrote:On August 03 2011 11:13 bennyaus wrote:On August 03 2011 11:11 MrCon wrote:On August 03 2011 11:09 Fatalize wrote:
[quote]
- Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix
- Corruptors are awful against anything
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine. Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had. Corrupters are awful against everything? What game do you play. They are amazing vs Phoenix/Carriers (in small numbers)/Vikings/Battlecruisers. This reminds me of an earlier SOTG where Painuser was saying how good Zealots were and Inc/Tyler argued against him saying they're worthless. Lo and behold, Chargelots are like the central unit of the PvT metagame right now. People need to try these things before saying they're worthless. He meant corrupters are awful against everything else in the PvZ matchup. No one uses carriers and as soon as the phoenixes die, you realize you have 40 food sitting around in the air while you get raped by archon/zealot. You realise that you have killed 40 food of his army though? and that 40 food can turn into Broodlords which hard counter Zealot/Archon. Except because of the huge amount of Corruptors you have to make, you can't hold his ground force with whatever ground force you have. You think he's gonna sit there and wait for you to get hive tech and greater spire and morph into broods just because you killed his phoenixes? Rofl. You're acting like you have to make one corruptor per phoenix. You don't. You act like when the actual battle happens, the corruptors can get anywhere near the phoenix without being 5-shot by the 10 archons. You act like a whiny zerg  I say facts. If you see it as whine, then you are predisposed to thinking truth about zerg is whining. Corruptors do belong in an army against counter archon phoenix zealot.
You realise there were 2 massive engagements where Strifecro got smoked before kiwi had even had added archons to the mix. It was basically just chargelot / pheonix / stalker until the major engagement that lost Strifecro the game.
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On August 03 2011 11:25 hitpoint wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:21 forgottendreams wrote:On August 03 2011 11:16 Dexington wrote:
Methinks EG needs to rethink its roster. EG needs to cut lz, strifecro and axslav (possibly machine too) like right now and up get a decent protoss. That being said that was an awful set of games. Axslav is underrated imo. He's one of their better players right behind idra and demuslim.
Let's be honest, axslav just isn't gonna get far with his 100apm cap he likes to have.
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On August 03 2011 11:27 forgottendreams wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:25 hitpoint wrote:On August 03 2011 11:21 forgottendreams wrote:On August 03 2011 11:16 Dexington wrote:
Methinks EG needs to rethink its roster. EG needs to cut lz, strifecro and axslav (possibly machine too) like right now and up get a decent protoss. That being said that was an awful set of games. Axslav is underrated imo. He's one of their better players right behind idra and demuslim. Let's be honest, axslav just isn't gonna get far with his 100apm cap he likes to have.
from several games I've seen incontrol has 120 apm and you don't mention him, Axslav is good despite his low apm
Sjow also has a really low apm and does wonder with it, and he even plays terran which probably takes a higher apm overall
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On August 03 2011 11:25 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:17 Flonomenalz wrote:On August 03 2011 11:15 bennyaus wrote:On August 03 2011 11:15 Crazypyro1 wrote:On August 03 2011 11:13 bennyaus wrote:On August 03 2011 11:11 MrCon wrote:On August 03 2011 11:09 Fatalize wrote:On August 03 2011 11:08 Zath.erin wrote:On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote:
i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE. - Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix - Corruptors are awful against anything So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine. Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had. Corrupters are awful against everything? What game do you play. They are amazing vs Phoenix/Carriers (in small numbers)/Vikings/Battlecruisers. This reminds me of an earlier SOTG where Painuser was saying how good Zealots were and Inc/Tyler argued against him saying they're worthless. Lo and behold, Chargelots are like the central unit of the PvT metagame right now. People need to try these things before saying they're worthless. He meant corrupters are awful against everything else in the PvZ matchup. No one uses carriers and as soon as the phoenixes die, you realize you have 40 food sitting around in the air while you get raped by archon/zealot. You realise that you have killed 40 food of his army though? and that 40 food can turn into Broodlords which hard counter Zealot/Archon. Except because of the huge amount of Corruptors you have to make, you can't hold his ground force with whatever ground force you have. You think he's gonna sit there and wait for you to get hive tech and greater spire and morph into broods just because you killed his phoenixes? Rofl. slush has beaten kiwi at MLG 2-0 he went quick 3rd 70 drones -> Roach/corruptors and ran over kiwi
Fayth, can you share with us how many hours Kiwi practices or do you not feel comfortable saying?
It seems pretty insane that he can play as one of the best NA players and do well at an MLG after spending so much time at the WSOP. How insane would he be if he played as much as the Koreans?
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On August 03 2011 11:25 hitpoint wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:21 forgottendreams wrote:On August 03 2011 11:16 Dexington wrote:
Methinks EG needs to rethink its roster. EG needs to cut lz, strifecro and axslav (possibly machine too) like right now and up get a decent protoss. That being said that was an awful set of games. Axslav is underrated imo. He's one of their better players right behind puma, idra and demuslim.
Better than iNcontrol? xD
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On August 03 2011 11:21 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:20 Heavenly wrote:On August 03 2011 11:17 Flonomenalz wrote:On August 03 2011 11:15 bennyaus wrote:On August 03 2011 11:15 Crazypyro1 wrote:On August 03 2011 11:13 bennyaus wrote:On August 03 2011 11:11 MrCon wrote:On August 03 2011 11:09 Fatalize wrote:On August 03 2011 11:08 Zath.erin wrote:On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote:
i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE. - Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix - Corruptors are awful against anything So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine. Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had. Corrupters are awful against everything? What game do you play. They are amazing vs Phoenix/Carriers (in small numbers)/Vikings/Battlecruisers. This reminds me of an earlier SOTG where Painuser was saying how good Zealots were and Inc/Tyler argued against him saying they're worthless. Lo and behold, Chargelots are like the central unit of the PvT metagame right now. People need to try these things before saying they're worthless. He meant corrupters are awful against everything else in the PvZ matchup. No one uses carriers and as soon as the phoenixes die, you realize you have 40 food sitting around in the air while you get raped by archon/zealot. You realise that you have killed 40 food of his army though? and that 40 food can turn into Broodlords which hard counter Zealot/Archon. Except because of the huge amount of Corruptors you have to make, you can't hold his ground force with whatever ground force you have. You think he's gonna sit there and wait for you to get hive tech and greater spire and morph into broods just because you killed his phoenixes? Rofl. You're acting like you have to make one corruptor per phoenix. You don't. You act like when the actual battle happens, the corruptors can get anywhere near the phoenix without being 5-shot by the 10 archons.
You have NO IDEA what you are talking about. Go and watch the ICCUP weekly vods of Sage vs Zergs, he did this exact same unit build and the Zerg beat it with Infestor/Roach/Ling/Corruptor. Absolutely steamrolled him.
Even without watching that game what you say is profoundly stupid. What are the Phoenix going to do, Stay within archon range the entire fight where they can lift maybe 1-2 units?
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On August 03 2011 11:27 forgottendreams wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:25 hitpoint wrote:On August 03 2011 11:21 forgottendreams wrote:On August 03 2011 11:16 Dexington wrote:
Methinks EG needs to rethink its roster. EG needs to cut lz, strifecro and axslav (possibly machine too) like right now and up get a decent protoss. That being said that was an awful set of games. Axslav is underrated imo. He's one of their better players right behind idra and demuslim. Let's be honest, axslav just isn't gonna get far with his 100apm cap he likes to have.
How can we say he (or anyone from EG) is underrated when none of the EG players have come close to even placing well from open at an MLG recently. Yes it is hard to do well from open, but Cruncher has done it twice now, and Tyler did it on his first time in open. Frankly, EG is just vastly overrated and luckily have seedings to fall back on for Incontrol, otherwise his story would be the same. Idra and Demuslim are the only 2 talented players, and Demuslim seems like the only one who is actually motivated to become good and beat top level players.
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On August 03 2011 11:25 hitpoint wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:21 forgottendreams wrote:On August 03 2011 11:16 Dexington wrote:
Methinks EG needs to rethink its roster. EG needs to cut lz, strifecro and axslav (possibly machine too) like right now and up get a decent protoss. That being said that was an awful set of games. Axslav is underrated imo. He's one of their better players right behind puma, idra and demuslim.
axslav is better than people think. his weakness are his low multitasking skills/APM. but give him time and he can be on Kiwi's level.
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I'm glad that protoss is rediscovering how their race works. 6 gate used to be an all in move but creative protosses like Kiwi have basically thrown that book out the window and basically said "screw the rules" and managed to create innovative and excellent new strats.
Now, time to see what MC has cooking up his sleeve.
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On August 03 2011 11:28 wats0n wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:25 ReignFayth wrote:On August 03 2011 11:17 Flonomenalz wrote:On August 03 2011 11:15 bennyaus wrote:On August 03 2011 11:15 Crazypyro1 wrote:On August 03 2011 11:13 bennyaus wrote:On August 03 2011 11:11 MrCon wrote:On August 03 2011 11:09 Fatalize wrote:On August 03 2011 11:08 Zath.erin wrote:On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote:
i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE. - Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix - Corruptors are awful against anything So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine. Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had. Corrupters are awful against everything? What game do you play. They are amazing vs Phoenix/Carriers (in small numbers)/Vikings/Battlecruisers. This reminds me of an earlier SOTG where Painuser was saying how good Zealots were and Inc/Tyler argued against him saying they're worthless. Lo and behold, Chargelots are like the central unit of the PvT metagame right now. People need to try these things before saying they're worthless. He meant corrupters are awful against everything else in the PvZ matchup. No one uses carriers and as soon as the phoenixes die, you realize you have 40 food sitting around in the air while you get raped by archon/zealot. You realise that you have killed 40 food of his army though? and that 40 food can turn into Broodlords which hard counter Zealot/Archon. Except because of the huge amount of Corruptors you have to make, you can't hold his ground force with whatever ground force you have. You think he's gonna sit there and wait for you to get hive tech and greater spire and morph into broods just because you killed his phoenixes? Rofl. slush has beaten kiwi at MLG 2-0 he went quick 3rd 70 drones -> Roach/corruptors and ran over kiwi Fayth, can you share with us how many hours Kiwi practices or do you not feel comfortable saying? It seems pretty insane that he can play as one of the best NA players and do well at an MLG after spending so much time at the WSOP. How insane would he be if he played as much as the Koreans?
I think he plays on average 25 games/day, and most of it he plays it on europe, also it's really nothing special he was only in vegas for 2 weeks
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fun to watch. loved the kiwkaki games. havent seen that build before, reminded me of sc1 PvZ with mases of corsairs hunting overlords
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EG does hugely well on publicity. Their publicity >> their playing.
However, they do have PumA now... so we shall see what that brings them. Otherwise they have IdrA (who has been in decline) and DeMuslim (although there will always be question marks next to his name until he gets some results).
The rest of the line-up of EG is in my opinion just not very good.
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On August 03 2011 11:29 bennyaus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:27 forgottendreams wrote:On August 03 2011 11:25 hitpoint wrote:On August 03 2011 11:21 forgottendreams wrote:On August 03 2011 11:16 Dexington wrote:
Methinks EG needs to rethink its roster. EG needs to cut lz, strifecro and axslav (possibly machine too) like right now and up get a decent protoss. That being said that was an awful set of games. Axslav is underrated imo. He's one of their better players right behind idra and demuslim. Let's be honest, axslav just isn't gonna get far with his 100apm cap he likes to have. How can we say he (or anyone from EG) is underrated when none of the EG players have come close to even placing well from open at an MLG recently. Yes it is hard to do well from open, but Cruncher has done it twice now, and Tyler did it on his first time in open. Frankly, EG is just vastly overrated and luckily have seedings to fall back on for Incontrol, otherwise his story would be the same. Idra and Demuslim are the only 2 talented players, and Demuslim seems like the only one who is actually motivated to become good and beat top level players.
I don't think EG was ever overrated....everyone knows lz is trash now, axslav is mediocre and strifecro is just not good.
It's basically always been team idra until demuslim and puma joined.
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On August 03 2011 11:30 integrity wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:25 hitpoint wrote:On August 03 2011 11:21 forgottendreams wrote:On August 03 2011 11:16 Dexington wrote:
Methinks EG needs to rethink its roster. EG needs to cut lz, strifecro and axslav (possibly machine too) like right now and up get a decent protoss. That being said that was an awful set of games. Axslav is underrated imo. He's one of their better players right behind puma, idra and demuslim. axslav is better than people think. his weakness are his low multitasking skills/APM. but give him time and he can be on Kiwi's level.
Eh, when you say that someone's weaknesses are low multitasking and apm, you've pretty much described a mediocre player who very likely won't ever go beyond semi-pro skill level.
It's like saying that he's a great player, but his weaknesses are everything that matters the most and is hardest to improve.
That's why a player like ViBE, even though he's not very good right now, is likely to overcome most NA pros just because he's physically capable of effective fast play and multitasking.
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On August 03 2011 11:30 integrity wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:25 hitpoint wrote:On August 03 2011 11:21 forgottendreams wrote:On August 03 2011 11:16 Dexington wrote:
Methinks EG needs to rethink its roster. EG needs to cut lz, strifecro and axslav (possibly machine too) like right now and up get a decent protoss. That being said that was an awful set of games. Axslav is underrated imo. He's one of their better players right behind puma, idra and demuslim. axslav is better than people think. his weakness are his low multitasking skills/APM. but give him time and he can be on Kiwi's level.
I see the way he play and feel like he's pretty smart. But tbh APMs really mean alot at high level to react in every situation well.
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I think part of why I quit is the ridiculous expectations from players who are terrible at the game
saying axslav is mediocre and strifecro is just not good and lz is trash
i mean jesus christ give them a break
from that point of view we could just say every foreigner right now is absolute trash at this game and they shouldn't bother playing this game since koreans are winning everything
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On August 03 2011 11:28 Liudo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:25 hitpoint wrote:On August 03 2011 11:21 forgottendreams wrote:On August 03 2011 11:16 Dexington wrote:
Methinks EG needs to rethink its roster. EG needs to cut lz, strifecro and axslav (possibly machine too) like right now and up get a decent protoss. That being said that was an awful set of games. Axslav is underrated imo. He's one of their better players right behind puma, idra and demuslim. Better than iNcontrol? xD
Axslav beat incontrol in season 1 of ipl i think. In the end he got 4th too.
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Are people seriosuly using StrifeCro as a guide for seeing is something is overpowered vs Zerg? Lets see someone try this vs Nestea and see how far is gets them.
On August 03 2011 11:28 ReignFayth wrote:
Sjow also has a really low apm and does wonder with it, and he even plays terran which probably takes a higher apm overall
Sjow's results has plumetted pretty hard the last few months or so since people really got a great understanding of the game. I don't think slow APM like that is sustainable long term as pro's get better and better. Versus Korean multitasking (like his games vs July) Sjow's lack of mutitasking is extremely apparent with him regularly having idle units next to multi pronged attacks but lacking the speed to properly react.
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EPT
