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On August 03 2011 11:21 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:20 Heavenly wrote:On August 03 2011 11:17 Flonomenalz wrote:On August 03 2011 11:15 bennyaus wrote:On August 03 2011 11:15 Crazypyro1 wrote:On August 03 2011 11:13 bennyaus wrote:On August 03 2011 11:11 MrCon wrote:On August 03 2011 11:09 Fatalize wrote:On August 03 2011 11:08 Zath.erin wrote:On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote:
i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE. - Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix - Corruptors are awful against anything So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine. Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had. Corrupters are awful against everything? What game do you play. They are amazing vs Phoenix/Carriers (in small numbers)/Vikings/Battlecruisers. This reminds me of an earlier SOTG where Painuser was saying how good Zealots were and Inc/Tyler argued against him saying they're worthless. Lo and behold, Chargelots are like the central unit of the PvT metagame right now. People need to try these things before saying they're worthless. He meant corrupters are awful against everything else in the PvZ matchup. No one uses carriers and as soon as the phoenixes die, you realize you have 40 food sitting around in the air while you get raped by archon/zealot. You realise that you have killed 40 food of his army though? and that 40 food can turn into Broodlords which hard counter Zealot/Archon. Except because of the huge amount of Corruptors you have to make, you can't hold his ground force with whatever ground force you have. You think he's gonna sit there and wait for you to get hive tech and greater spire and morph into broods just because you killed his phoenixes? Rofl. You're acting like you have to make one corruptor per phoenix. You don't. You act like when the actual battle happens, the corruptors can get anywhere near the phoenix without being 5-shot by the 10 archons.
The phoenixes don't do anything if they aren't going through you to lift your infestors, your corrupters will murder them if they actually try to participate in the fight.
Phoenixes also have the 'critical mass' effect where he had so many that he could pick up a lot of units and still have many to actually kill what he lifted. If he had a few corrupters earlier to pick at the phoenix numbers he can't ever mass lift like that because he then has none left to actually fire and too few stalkers/archons to be the damage dealers.
You can't analyze the problem at the very end of the game when there were 10 archons walking through his base unhindered, obviously you're fucked because you let it get to that point.
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On August 03 2011 11:38 ReignFayth wrote:
I think part of why I quit is the ridiculous expectations from players who are terrible at the game
saying axslav is mediocre and strifecro is just not good and lz is trash
i mean jesus christ give them a break
from that point of view we could just say every foreigner right now is absolute trash at this game and they shouldn't bother playing this game since koreans are winning everything
So when you watch sports you don't point out who the stronger/weaker players are and when guys make mistakes?
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On August 03 2011 11:21 forgottendreams wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:16 Dexington wrote:
Methinks EG needs to rethink its roster. EG needs to cut lz, strifecro and axslav (possibly machine too) like right now and up get a decent protoss. That being said that was an awful set of games.
Axslav is almost certainly a better protoss than incontrol. However I don't think they should drop either protoss since Machine, Strifeco and lz are really failing whereas incontrol/axslav can play good games on occasion at least.
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I actually think Axslav is good. He or Cruncher is probably the best American Protoss player.
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On August 03 2011 11:38 ReignFayth wrote:
I think part of why I quit is the ridiculous expectations from players who are terrible at the game
saying axslav is mediocre and strifecro is just not good and lz is trash
i mean jesus christ give them a break
from that point of view we could just say every foreigner right now is absolute trash at this game and they shouldn't bother playing this game since koreans are winning everything
Dude I hear what you are saying but it's the same everywhere: people are always going to have high expectations in sports or esports. It wouldn't be the same without that competitive edge.
And really, it's not unrealistic to compare some EG pros with just some random EU pros to see a skill-gap, so there is no need to reference Koreans.
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Just for the record, Fungals have been the bane of phoenix play since early release. Land one fungal on the ball and its done. It was bad enough that I stopped playing with phoenixes for a while when my friends would just go infestor against it.
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On August 03 2011 11:42 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:21 forgottendreams wrote:On August 03 2011 11:16 Dexington wrote:
Methinks EG needs to rethink its roster. EG needs to cut lz, strifecro and axslav (possibly machine too) like right now and up get a decent protoss. That being said that was an awful set of games. Axslav is almost certainly a better protoss than incontrol. However I don't think they should drop either protoss since Machine, Strifeco and lz are really failing whereas incontrol/axslav can play good games on occasion at least.
Whether Axslav is better or not Incontrol has much better results, including that 4th at MLG Dallas.
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On August 03 2011 11:42 meadbert wrote:
I actually think Axslav is good. He or Cruncher is probably the best American Protoss player.
I would say Minigun or Cruncher right now :/
Too bad Minigun has a fear of planes (so I've heard) and will never make it to a MLG 
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On August 03 2011 11:44 Dommk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:42 meadbert wrote:
I actually think Axslav is good. He or Cruncher is probably the best American Protoss player. I would say Minigun or Cruncher right now :/ Too bad Minigun has a fear of planes (so I've heard) and will never make it to a MLG
It has to be Cruncher or Incontrol as those are the guys were the big tournament results. Cruncher make it into Pool Play at MLG Anaheim and had a good run at Columbus plus did okay in TSL. Incontrol got 4th at MLG Dallas.
Axslav and Minigun don't really have tournament results.
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It's probably Cruncher. Incontrol is just riding on his pre-Korean MLG run that he Artosis'd his way in in the first place. And placing Pylons in TLO's base. -_-
Though to be honest, Nony can still just raise an eyebrow and be better than any of them (as seen from his open bracket run).
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On August 03 2011 11:38 ReignFayth wrote:
I think part of why I quit is the ridiculous expectations from players who are terrible at the game
saying axslav is mediocre and strifecro is just not good and lz is trash
i mean jesus christ give them a break
from that point of view we could just say every foreigner right now is absolute trash at this game and they shouldn't bother playing this game since koreans are winning everything
I think some of the foreigners bring it on themselves with their laziness. Doctors, lawyers, average joes, everyone in the world works hard usually over 8 hours a day. In undeveloped countries its around 14 hours a day and tougher work.
Then you have guys like Idra who say they only practice 3 hours a day. Incontrol admitting he plays less than 4 hours a day and bad practice. How are people supposed to take it?
Guys like Kas and Sase are beloved and they both bombed out of Dreamhack but the community recognizes that they work hard and are professional.
tl;dr
People that call themselves competitors and see the Koreans working 12 hours a day and they don't want to put in more than 3 hours are going to get criticized.
I mean seriously, I don't think that people actually think the Koreans are genetically superior. It's all practice. Even Daigo lost at Evo in Marvel because he only just started playing it.
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kiwikaki kind of looks like the sad keanu memes. kind of amusing.
go eg~!
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where can i watch the vods?
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On August 03 2011 11:45 lunchforthesky wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:44 Dommk wrote:On August 03 2011 11:42 meadbert wrote:
I actually think Axslav is good. He or Cruncher is probably the best American Protoss player. I would say Minigun or Cruncher right now :/ Too bad Minigun has a fear of planes (so I've heard) and will never make it to a MLG It has to be Cruncher or Incontrol as those are the guys were the big tournament results. Cruncher make it into Pool Play at MLG Anaheim and had a good run at Columbus plus did okay in TSL. Incontrol got 4th at MLG Dallas. Axslav and Minigun don't really have tournament results.
Minigun doesn't have tournament results cuz he doesn't show up, that doesn't mean he's worse than incontrol or cruncher.....
I'd pick minigun over cruncher and incontrol if I had to bet money on games
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On August 03 2011 11:47 wats0n wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:38 ReignFayth wrote:
I think part of why I quit is the ridiculous expectations from players who are terrible at the game
saying axslav is mediocre and strifecro is just not good and lz is trash
i mean jesus christ give them a break
from that point of view we could just say every foreigner right now is absolute trash at this game and they shouldn't bother playing this game since koreans are winning everything I think some of the foreigners bring it on themselves with their laziness. Doctors, lawyers, average joes, everyone in the world works hard usually over 8 hours a day. In undeveloped countries its around 14 hours a day and tougher work. Then you have guys like Idra who say they only practice 3 hours a day. Incontrol admitting he plays less than 4 hours a day and bad practice. How are people supposed to take it? Guys like Kas and Sase are beloved and they both bombed out of Dreamhack but the community recognizes that they work hard and are professional. tl;dr People that call themselves competitors and see the Koreans working 12 hours a day and they don't want to put in more than 3 hours are going to get criticized. I mean seriously, I don't think that people actually think the Koreans are genetically superior. It's all practice. Even Daigo lost at Evo in Marvel because he only just started playing it.
I think that's the most important thing coming out of EG getting a house - they are actually treating SC2 as a career with mandatory hours of work put in. I imagine EG will be expecting much stronger results going forward.
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Did we completely count out Tyler as possible best American Protoss?
Personally I'd go with Cruncher but there's a bunch of really good ones. :D
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On August 03 2011 11:51 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:45 lunchforthesky wrote:On August 03 2011 11:44 Dommk wrote:On August 03 2011 11:42 meadbert wrote:
I actually think Axslav is good. He or Cruncher is probably the best American Protoss player. I would say Minigun or Cruncher right now :/ Too bad Minigun has a fear of planes (so I've heard) and will never make it to a MLG It has to be Cruncher or Incontrol as those are the guys were the big tournament results. Cruncher make it into Pool Play at MLG Anaheim and had a good run at Columbus plus did okay in TSL. Incontrol got 4th at MLG Dallas. Axslav and Minigun don't really have tournament results. Minigun doesn't have tournament results cuz he doesn't show up, that doesn't mean he's worse than incontrol or cruncher..... I'd pick minigun over cruncher and incontrol if I had to bet money on games
I'd put money on Kiwi or Mini as well. Kiwi, if allowed to prepare, is the sort of player who can snipe like no one else. He's really creative. I'm still blown away by the immortal drop he used against Idra a few MLG's back.
Mini is just a solid consistent player. He's not the flashiest but he's always seemed really consistent to me.
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On August 03 2011 11:54 walklightwhat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:47 wats0n wrote:On August 03 2011 11:38 ReignFayth wrote:
I think part of why I quit is the ridiculous expectations from players who are terrible at the game
saying axslav is mediocre and strifecro is just not good and lz is trash
i mean jesus christ give them a break
from that point of view we could just say every foreigner right now is absolute trash at this game and they shouldn't bother playing this game since koreans are winning everything I think some of the foreigners bring it on themselves with their laziness. Doctors, lawyers, average joes, everyone in the world works hard usually over 8 hours a day. In undeveloped countries its around 14 hours a day and tougher work. Then you have guys like Idra who say they only practice 3 hours a day. Incontrol admitting he plays less than 4 hours a day and bad practice. How are people supposed to take it? Guys like Kas and Sase are beloved and they both bombed out of Dreamhack but the community recognizes that they work hard and are professional. tl;dr People that call themselves competitors and see the Koreans working 12 hours a day and they don't want to put in more than 3 hours are going to get criticized. I mean seriously, I don't think that people actually think the Koreans are genetically superior. It's all practice. Even Daigo lost at Evo in Marvel because he only just started playing it. I think that's the most important thing coming out of EG getting a house - they are actually treating SC2 as a career with mandatory hours of work put in. I imagine EG will be expecting much stronger results going forward.
Well who knows what kind of training regime they will really use. But I agree it will be very interesting to see if this has an effect on their results going forward. I suppose Raleigh MLG and NASL season 2 will be some opportunities to follow that.
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On August 03 2011 11:57 Jacobs Ladder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 11:51 ReignFayth wrote:On August 03 2011 11:45 lunchforthesky wrote:On August 03 2011 11:44 Dommk wrote:On August 03 2011 11:42 meadbert wrote:
I actually think Axslav is good. He or Cruncher is probably the best American Protoss player. I would say Minigun or Cruncher right now :/ Too bad Minigun has a fear of planes (so I've heard) and will never make it to a MLG It has to be Cruncher or Incontrol as those are the guys were the big tournament results. Cruncher make it into Pool Play at MLG Anaheim and had a good run at Columbus plus did okay in TSL. Incontrol got 4th at MLG Dallas. Axslav and Minigun don't really have tournament results. Minigun doesn't have tournament results cuz he doesn't show up, that doesn't mean he's worse than incontrol or cruncher..... I'd pick minigun over cruncher and incontrol if I had to bet money on games I'd put money on Kiwi or Mini as well. Kiwi, if allowed to prepare, is the sort of player who can snipe like no one else. He's really creative. I'm still blown away by the immortal drop he used against Idra a few MLG's back. Mini is just a solid consistent player. He's not the flashiest but he's always seemed really consistent to me.
yeah but we were talking about americans, kiwi is canadian 
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I'd say Kiwikaki still holds the throne as top American Protoss. And please, iNcontroL should not belong in the debate at all... yeah he placed 4th at MLG, but as everyone as pointed out he got extremely lucky (beat Mihai, Slush, and TLO twice thanks to extended series), but besides that he has literally ZERO results and a 39% winrate...
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EPT
