The time has come for our first IGN Pro League Team Arena! This is a (follow closely) weekly winner's format team king of the hill showmatch series. For better clarification, check out our IPL Team Arena General Discussion thread!
The first team to defeat everyone on the opposing team's roster (5 wins, or a best of 9) will earn $500 for their team to split however they want. To make things even more interesting, we are including a $100 bounty for each victory that a team earns, for new challengers to try and claim. For example, if a team wins 3 weeks in a row, they will have earned themselves $1,500 total, and have $300 worth of bounty on them. If a new team defeats them, they will earn the $500 for winning the week, as well as claim the $300 bounty.
The first two teams that will be playing in the IPL Team Arena are Evil Geniuses and Reign. Here are their full rosters:
New teams will be invited each week to take on the previous week's winner.
The FIRST MATCH of the IPL Team Arena on Wednesday, Aug 03 12:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) (we will also have a European re-broadcast as usual at Wednesday, Aug 03 4:30pm GMT (GMT+00:00)) IS:
The first map will be on a set rotation, and then it is loser's pick.
Casters
This week's games will be commentated by CatsPajamas and PainUser!
We have already invited several teams and have more in mind, but if you would like your team to be considered for the IPL Team Arena as well, please send a letter of interest as well as a description of your team and a roster to iplquestions@ign.com!
Seems awesome. Results wise, I think that IdrA/PuMa will carry EG unless sniped or taken down by Kiwi or Slush; I don't think that the rest of the roster is quite good enough. That being said, IMO EG has a top heavy roster; after you get away from those 2 players the rest of the roster seems really light in comparison.
You have to remember that Idra has not being do well as late, still a great player but it seems he wasn't performing at MLG last weekend. Does anyone know where Puma is and if lag is going to be an issue for him? I do see EG taking this though if those things dont affect the match too much.
I thought Fayth joined VPGamers recently? Also I can't see EG losing this; IdrA, Puma [even with lag] and DeMusliM should bring them an easy win. But is it played live? E; 2 AM, holy shit ;/, will there be vods uploaded quickly?
If puma and idrA are sniped and cheesed or something I feel like reign has a stronger core roster then EG. Performance wise EG is better, but most of their team has yielded lackluster results so far this year so it could be anyones game.
On August 03 2011 04:08 infinitely wrote: If puma and idrA are sniped and cheesed or something I feel like reign has a stronger core roster then EG. Performance wise EG is better, but most of their team has yielded lackluster results so far this year so it could be anyones game.
lol? its like saying "if kiwi and slush are sniped and cheesed, EG has the better core roster"
EG wont lose more then 2 maps, if they let Puma and demuslim play after idra.
On August 03 2011 04:08 infinitely wrote: If puma and idrA are sniped and cheesed or something I feel like reign has a stronger core roster then EG. Performance wise EG is better, but most of their team has yielded lackluster results so far this year so it could be anyones game.
lol? its like saying "if kiwi and slush are sniped and cheesed, EG has the better core roster"
EG wont lose more then 2 maps, if they let Puma and demuslim play after idra.
I've seen Kiwi AK EG easy in a team league. If he has had time to practice he is an absolute monster. He was the only protoss to consistently beat IdrA after he left Korea and said everyone on the us servers were bad.
I miss that Kiwi
Ohh and also slush would destroy demusmlim considering his TvZ is awful.
On August 03 2011 04:08 infinitely wrote: If puma and idrA are sniped and cheesed or something I feel like reign has a stronger core roster then EG. Performance wise EG is better, but most of their team has yielded lackluster results so far this year so it could be anyones game.
lol? its like saying "if kiwi and slush are sniped and cheesed, EG has the better core roster"
EG wont lose more then 2 maps, if they let Puma and demuslim play after idra.
I've seen Kiwi AK EG easy in a team league. If he has had time to practice he is an absolute monster. He was the only protoss to consistently beat IdrA after he left Korea and said everyone on the us servers were bad.
I miss that Kiwi
Ohh and also slush would destroy demusmlim considering his TvZ is awful.
Yeah, agreed. I don't understand all of these EG fan boys completely blowing off reign and kiwi.
Is it just me or does anyone else find it funny that almost every western team has recently picked up a Korean? (or a Korean Team if you're FXO). It's going to have a big impact on these kinds of team tournaments.
EG.Puma Dignitas.TanDongHo Col.DongRaeGu Fnatic.Rain Reign.Pheonix? (or did they drop him already?) FXOz SK.MC
It's almost like getting a ringer for a street basketball tournament.
This will all be determined by Puma's showing in this game. If Reign can prepare for him, then the rest of EG's lackluster lineup will fall shortly. Reign comes in with 2 free wins in this clan war, but it's all about idra and puma's performances.
I can't see any of these people getting close to Puma, although I don't know whether he will play or not. Heck, Idra may be a handful, but if Idra and Puma get sniped, I could see Kiwi cleaning up, depending how well Demuslim plays.
On August 03 2011 05:39 Otolia wrote: Invite [M], mouz and Dignitas. These are the best EU teams. IGN is doing an awesome job with the rebroadcast, don't miss this opportunity.
On August 03 2011 05:39 Otolia wrote: Invite [M], mouz and Dignitas. These are the best EU teams. IGN is doing an awesome job with the rebroadcast, don't miss this opportunity.
Slush and Kiwi both have a chance to beat IdrA, although Slush's chance is a little less. Other than that, some odd cheese may get him.
Demuslim might fall to Kiwi, and should be able to go toe to toe at least with all the others. However, since he lacks much confidence in his vZ, again slush could kill him
I really don't know how well the former VT members will do as they have very few high profile wins
It is so ridiculously awesome to finally see a Team league with a winner's league format, not to mention a KOTH base. This is where IGN can really make some inroads into the market IMO. EG Master's just does not cut it for excitement and drama.
On August 03 2011 07:06 SimDawg wrote: It is so ridiculously awesome to finally see a Team league with a winner's league format, not to mention a KOTH base. This is where IGN can really make some inroads into the market IMO. EG Master's just does not cut it for excitement and drama.
Agreed. Why has it taken so long for any other Team Leagues to adopt this format? I think its pretty universal that spectators love the GSTL because of the excitement of counter-picking, snipes, and all-kills.
Is it a winner stays in format (which is the best team format if you ask me)? If so then even though I am the biggest Kiwikaki fanboy I think PuMa alone is sufficient. Let alone with Idra behind him. :-(
Yeah having Puma on one side is kind of unfair. It's like having a soccer/football match between two very good amateur team... except one has just recruited Chritiano Ronaldo.
I guess every foreigner team will need to have its own 'resident korean' now in order to have any chance in that kind of tournament. That's what FnaticMSI (Rain) and FXO (z) did too.
On August 03 2011 08:39 dooraven wrote: If Perfect has any sense he'll do a blink allin on Xelnaga Caverns, it's very hard to stop on that map and can possibly take idra out.
edit: whoa it got changed. Nevermind!
If PuMa goes out without a single win, I'll be disappointed
First of all: Team Leagues are awesome, the format is good, and if you can invite other high level teams, this whole thing will be great. Second: How recently were these games played? Before or after Anaheim?
On August 03 2011 08:48 blade55555 wrote: Future should get wrecked, don't be to greedy idra :D.
predict 4-1 EG.
I don't mean to be rude, but Future seems a step below the others on Reign. Now that we know Spades is next... my guess is that we'll see Phoenix or Slush and Kiwi... I don't think we'll see Future.
On August 03 2011 08:48 blade55555 wrote: Future should get wrecked, don't be to greedy idra :D.
predict 4-1 EG.
I don't mean to be rude, but Future seems a step below the others on Reign. Now that we know Spades is next... my guess is that we'll see Phoenix or Slush and Kiwi... I don't think we'll see Future.
he played first and got rolled. Not being rude because I agree with you.
On August 03 2011 08:48 blade55555 wrote: Future should get wrecked, don't be to greedy idra :D.
predict 4-1 EG.
I don't mean to be rude, but Future seems a step below the others on Reign. Now that we know Spades is next... my guess is that we'll see Phoenix or Slush and Kiwi... I don't think we'll see Future.
Phoenix and Reign couldn't come to terms for a contract, so Phoenix is not part of the team.
I don't understand what idra was thinking there. He like didn't even react when his zergling saw all the hellions. He didn't even block his ramp.. hmm...
I don't know how he's supposed to scout that, Spades had marines on the perimiter of his base and one hellion is sometimes during a banshee rush so he couldn't be sure
On August 03 2011 09:22 blade55555 wrote: until idra starts making roaches he well keep dying to blue flamed hellions :p.
How do you even tell what the Terran is going though?
I'm saying this as a Protoss, but how do you know that Spades is going Blue flames and not a Tank Marine Push, or Banshees? All of those builds require a different reaction :X
So would lings and banes and spines, which is all he had.
On August 03 2011 09:22 blade55555 wrote: until idra starts making roaches he well keep dying to blue flamed hellions :p.
pretty much. roaches would have shut that down hard
could've been banshees, in which case, roaches are gonna be useless.
Queens and spores.
He had lots of queens to deal with it already, and a spore going up I believe. Are zergs supposed to blind counter every single thing terran can do? :S
On August 03 2011 09:22 blade55555 wrote: until idra starts making roaches he well keep dying to blue flamed hellions :p.
pretty much. roaches would have shut that down hard
could've been banshees, in which case, roaches are gonna be useless.
Queens and spores.
He had lots of queens to deal with it already, and a spore going up I believe. Are zergs supposed to blind counter every single thing terran can do? :S
He could have blocked the ramp with his queens and held off until mutas came
On August 03 2011 09:23 Dragar wrote: Don't/can't/won't scout, and it's a coin-flip. What a silly game.
How do you scout that?
I don't know, but I'm sure there's a way. If there isn't, well, that's rubbish game design and needs fixing. SC2 shouldn't end up being rock-paper-scissors.
On August 03 2011 09:22 blade55555 wrote: until idra starts making roaches he well keep dying to blue flamed hellions :p.
pretty much. roaches would have shut that down hard
could've been banshees, in which case, roaches are gonna be useless.
Queens and spores.
He had lots of queens to deal with it already, and a spore going up I believe. Are zergs supposed to blind counter every single thing terran can do? :S
He could have blocked the ramp with his queens and held off until mutas came
He would've been devastated economically. Spire was barely started. Two base terran vs 1 base zerg doesn't work.
I can in fact confirm that that game specifically was played the day before MLG. Not sure about the rest, but since that was Game 2, I imagine the rest were played the same day.
On August 03 2011 09:22 Amethyst21 wrote: Blue flame hellions are ridiculous
Thank god I play protoss
Wait untill they find a timing to roast protoss with them too, it will come! xD
Well, we normally build stalkers in that MU, so we're probably pretty safe ^^.
Yeah, we don't have to deal with Blue flames...instead we get to deal with 1/1/1 all-ins that are stupidly hard to stop even if you know they are coming >_>
On August 03 2011 09:22 blade55555 wrote: until idra starts making roaches he well keep dying to blue flamed hellions :p.
pretty much. roaches would have shut that down hard
could've been banshees, in which case, roaches are gonna be useless.
Queens and spores.
He had lots of queens to deal with it already, and a spore going up I believe. Are zergs supposed to blind counter every single thing terran can do? :S
He could have blocked the ramp with his queens and held off until mutas came
He would've been devastated economically. Spire was barely started. Two base terran vs 1 base zerg doesn't work.
Watch any European zerg. They've been dealing with this build for months. Building wall-off, two queens blocking the ramp, and either a spine crawler or roaches. Pull all your drones to your main and wait out the attack. Not incredibly hard to deal with, honestly.
On August 03 2011 09:27 Joshy.IGN wrote: I can in fact confirm that that game specifically was played the day before MLG. Not sure about the rest, but since that was Game 2, I imagine the rest were played the same day.
That would explain the lack of proper reaction from IdrA .
On August 03 2011 09:27 Joshy.IGN wrote: I can in fact confirm that that game specifically was played the day before MLG. Not sure about the rest, but since that was Game 2, I imagine the rest were played the same day.
Yeah. Idra did the pull drones/queen block against Boxer at MLG, guess this loss prepared him well for all the blue flame hellion builds there.
On August 03 2011 09:22 blade55555 wrote: until idra starts making roaches he well keep dying to blue flamed hellions :p.
pretty much. roaches would have shut that down hard
could've been banshees, in which case, roaches are gonna be useless.
Queens and spores.
He had lots of queens to deal with it already, and a spore going up I believe. Are zergs supposed to blind counter every single thing terran can do? :S
Well if your haven't scouted well (for any reason) you need a safer opening. And with how popular and deadly bfh are, they need to be one of the first things that come to mind. Even going roach, you still can defend banshee with queens and spores. Idra's BO vs Spades BO there was an autoloss, especially since he didn't run the drones away (he had time) and block the ramp. Idra played terribly there and your kidding yourself if you don't think so.
It was not something that IdrA could've really scouted for properly at that point in the game without getting lucky vs those two marines, but that loss was a pure execution loss. He knew they were on the way from the watchtower, and his queens should've been on the ramp.
You really can't blame anything else, he fucked up with his queens and drones.
On August 03 2011 09:27 Joshy.IGN wrote: I can in fact confirm that that game specifically was played the day before MLG. Not sure about the rest, but since that was Game 2, I imagine the rest were played the same day.
Yeah. Idra did the pull drones/queen block against Boxer at MLG, guess this loss prepared him well for all the blue flame hellion builds there.
What's funny is that in his mlg interview, IdrA said the build boxer used was a more refined version of a build he knew and he didn't responde to it correctly
On August 03 2011 09:27 Joshy.IGN wrote: I can in fact confirm that that game specifically was played the day before MLG. Not sure about the rest, but since that was Game 2, I imagine the rest were played the same day.
i was wondering why idra wasnt ready for mass blue flame
On August 03 2011 09:32 PhyreHazard wrote: I think the only way to defend against hellions these days would be a nice sim city with a few roachs at the entrance.
On August 03 2011 09:33 two.watup wrote: Spades beat EG's best zerg, what should they do?
...
...
send out a worse zerg...
spades isn't that great vs zerg last I saw. He beat EG's best zerg because idra dealt very poorly with blue flamed hellions. I bet machine will handle it a lot better.
On August 03 2011 09:30 Jibba wrote: It was not something that IdrA could've really scouted for properly at that point in the game without getting lucky vs those two marines, but that loss was a pure execution loss. He knew they were on the way from the watchtower, and his queens should've been on the ramp.
You really can't blame anything else, he fucked up with his queens and drones.
I agree. Although IdrA could not scout pass the ramp, he saw hellion since they drove down the ramp from Spade's base, at the Xel'Naga Tower and to his base. I think he had enough time to react by pulling drones back to his base and block it with queens.
But again, if the game was played before MLG, he might not understand the Hellion build that great.
I don't get the poll.. apart from idra and puma, EG is hardly a premier team. I won't be surprised if reign wins the rest of this series without too much trouble.
Machine... this could be messy :S I can't envision him beating spades if IdrA didn't.
I could definitely see Demuslim doing really well against such a protoss heavy team - the only real threat being SLush since Demu's TvZ is relatively bad compared to his TvP and TvT.
If EG have Puma though, I can't imagine RGN being able to beat him.
On August 03 2011 09:35 SgtCoDFish wrote: Machine... this could be messy :S I can't envision him beating spades if IdrA didn't.
I could definitely see Demuslim doing really well against such a protoss heavy team - the only real threat being SLush since Demu's TvZ is relatively bad compared to his TvP and TvT.
If EG have Puma though, I can't imagine RGN being able to beat him.
You have no idea how a best of 1 works do you
Basically what you're saying is if a player loses a single game to an opponent, he is worse than the opponent.
That happens to often if you fast expand as a Protoss, he should have known better to make sure there were no bunkers going down when he lost track of the scouting SCV. On top of that he skipped the first Stalker and delayed unit production from his first gateway by at least 10-20seconds
On August 03 2011 09:30 Jibba wrote: It was not something that IdrA could've really scouted for properly at that point in the game without getting lucky vs those two marines, but that loss was a pure execution loss. He knew they were on the way from the watchtower, and his queens should've been on the ramp.
You really can't blame anything else, he fucked up with his queens and drones.
I agree. Although IdrA could not scout pass the ramp, he saw hellion since they drove down the ramp from Spade's base, at the Xel'Naga Tower and to his base. I think he had enough time to react by pulling drones back to his base and block it with queens.
But again, if the game was played before MLG, he might not understand the Hellion build that great.
On August 03 2011 09:32 PhyreHazard wrote: I think the only way to defend against hellions these days would be a nice sim city with a few roachs at the entrance.
Which isn't actually difficult to do...
Depends on maps though, xelnaga for example has a very exposed natural... very difficult.
On August 03 2011 09:35 SgtCoDFish wrote: Machine... this could be messy :S I can't envision him beating spades if IdrA didn't.
I could definitely see Demuslim doing really well against such a protoss heavy team - the only real threat being SLush since Demu's TvZ is relatively bad compared to his TvP and TvT.
If EG have Puma though, I can't imagine RGN being able to beat him.
You have no idea how a best of 1 works do you
Basically what you're saying is if a player loses a single game to an opponent, he is worse than the opponent.
I'm not saying IdrA is worse than Spades overall; I expected IdrA to beat him. But if IdrA didn't beat Spades, I have to believe Spades can beat Machine easily enough with some tricky build. Spades isn't a bad player, and Machine has nothing to show for months of practise.
On August 03 2011 09:34 Quotidian wrote: I don't get the poll.. apart from idra and puma, EG is hardly a premier team. I won't be surprised if reign wins the rest of this series without too much trouble.
The poll is that way largely because of the winner's league format, I bet most people who voted before the games started were expecting IdrA to all-kill Reign. So much for that
On August 03 2011 09:33 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: lol EG better have puma or demuslim today or else they might actually lose...
Not to sound like too big of a dick, but that wouldn't be too surprising. EG isn't that strong of a team other than IdrA and Puma. I am NOT saying that they don't have any other good teammates, but hopefully you get my point.
On August 03 2011 09:41 HydraLF wrote: So, they sent idra out first to get sniped? :| even Mc lost his 2nd game against prime, it's just far too dangerous to send their ace first.
Well this likely means they will have Puma as an ace, otherwise yes I agree that isn't the best choice.
On August 03 2011 09:39 garlicface wrote: This is a very... comfy stream. Maybe it's the chicken soup I'm eating, maybe it's listening to CatsPajamas, this just has a nice feel to it.
I can't get the imagine of chicken soup dripping on to a beard, out of my head now.
On August 03 2011 09:22 blade55555 wrote: until idra starts making roaches he well keep dying to blue flamed hellions :p.
pretty much. roaches would have shut that down hard
could've been banshees, in which case, roaches are gonna be useless.
Queens and spores.
So i guess zerg should make roaches queens and spores every single game vs terran because its impossible to scout.
Someone else already said in this thread how to deal with it. He didn't have to scout, he saw the hellions coming after his ling died.
What did he think was going to happen? He had all the info he needed, all he needed was to pull his Drones into his main BEFORE the blue flames got to his base, block the ramp and make some spines at the natural to avoid getting it killed by the blue flames and wait it out whilst he either gets Muta or Roaches
On August 03 2011 09:33 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: lol EG better have puma or demuslim today or else they might actually lose...
Not to sound like too big of a dick, but that wouldn't be too surprising. EG isn't that strong of a team other than IdrA and Puma. I am NOT saying that they don't have any other good teammates, but hopefully you get my point.
Same applies to kiwi/slush, even to a greater extent.
On August 03 2011 09:46 Corrosive wrote: huge banes.
machine almost 100% wins
He actually lost quite a few banelings for only 15 workers. It could've gone a lot better than it did, and it was smart (perhaps by accident) for Spades to wait on dropping mules.
On August 03 2011 09:54 SafeAsCheese wrote: I missed it, but I can see what spades probably beat idra with something hard to scout that was able to kill idras econ in the first 10 mins?
Both players are actually so mediocre its amazing..Spades doesn't do any drops to harass Machines base, no medivacs to support marines, doesn't push with his forces while defending seems like he doesn't have good multitasking. Machine sacrificing broodlords for no reason, letting Mutas die from not microing, and letting Spades come back after having such a huge lead. This is badd
On August 03 2011 09:58 ZaxbyCof wrote: What level of play is this?
epic level. I can't believe it either. EG bootcamp was pretty hardcore
this was before they moved in the house fyi.
They bootcamped before MLG. This was played the day before MLG. I believe they all met up at least a week before so that everyone could practice and adjust to the time zone
On August 03 2011 09:54 Bashion wrote: Plz, tell me how the hell Spades beat Idra?
like 12 blue flame hellions that Idra couldn't scout
You mean didn't
How was he supposed to? wall off and marines around perimeter. Also this game between machine and spades, it incredibly incredibly sloppy.
Again, his zergling was killed at the watchtower by the hellions. He had enough queens to block his ramp, he just fucked up and didn't. That loss was all on IdrA's poor execution.
On August 03 2011 09:54 Bashion wrote: Plz, tell me how the hell Spades beat Idra?
like 12 blue flame hellions that Idra couldn't scout
You mean didn't
How was he supposed to? wall off and marines around perimeter. Also this game between machine and spades, it incredibly incredibly sloppy.
Again, his zergling was killed at the watchtower by the hellions. He had enough queens to block his ramp, he just fucked up and didn't. That loss was all on IdrA's poor execution.
They were actually killed all the way back at Spade's ramp so that gave him even a few more seconds to react than if they died at the watchtower
On August 03 2011 09:54 Bashion wrote: Plz, tell me how the hell Spades beat Idra?
like 12 blue flame hellions that Idra couldn't scout
You mean didn't
How was he supposed to? wall off and marines around perimeter. Also this game between machine and spades, it incredibly incredibly sloppy.
Again, his zergling was killed at the watchtower by the hellions. He had enough queens to block his ramp, he just fucked up and didn't. That loss was all on IdrA's poor execution.
His Ling was also killed at the ramp of Spades base as he moved out. I agree with the sentiment, he IdrA didn't need to scout that build, just react properly. He had all the information he needed to react properly but failed to do so :/
the fact that mid-level NA/EU players aren't able to keep up with mid-level korean players at all is really killing the enjoyment of this whole thing as a spectator sport for me. Games like this just makes the game look ugly.
On August 03 2011 09:54 Bashion wrote: Plz, tell me how the hell Spades beat Idra?
like 12 blue flame hellions that Idra couldn't scout
You mean didn't
How was he supposed to? wall off and marines around perimeter. Also this game between machine and spades, it incredibly incredibly sloppy.
Again, his zergling was killed at the watchtower by the hellions. He had enough queens to block his ramp, he just fucked up and didn't. That loss was all on IdrA's poor execution.
Oh yeah, he definitely could have executed it much, much better. But it was not his fault that he didn't scout it before he saw the hellions at the watch tower. Also did spades really give a "wp", I'm a machine fan but that was not a well played game.
So high level that machine loses mutas for absolutely no reason and decides that broodlords are good when they sit under marines. I like Spades and Machine, but seriously, that game was horrible.
On August 03 2011 10:03 Kiarip wrote: machine gets the most undeserved win of the series so far lmao
visually looked more deserving than 10 blue flames rolling into idra natural
I mean... I guess it depends on who you as. Losing to BFH < trading broodlords and infestors for marines. He was up like 7 bases to 3 at one point... and the game went on for 20 more minutes
On August 03 2011 09:54 Bashion wrote: Plz, tell me how the hell Spades beat Idra?
like 12 blue flame hellions that Idra couldn't scout
You mean didn't
How was he supposed to? wall off and marines around perimeter. Also this game between machine and spades, it incredibly incredibly sloppy.
Again, his zergling was killed at the watchtower by the hellions. He had enough queens to block his ramp, he just fucked up and didn't. That loss was all on IdrA's poor execution.
This isn't a solution do you know how fast 10-12 BFH kill a queen? Hint: Its very very quickly, it was BO loss due to the stupid nature of not ever being able to scout a terran.
Why acknowledge the chat comments? It's clear there were tons of mistakes but bringing it up in the cast was horrible. Dunno what Painuser was thinking.
1) It absolutely wasn't a high level game, so he looks dumb for saying otherwise.
2) Acknowledging trolls in the chat is pretty amateurish for a pro level cast. This isn't a random ladder stream.
On August 03 2011 09:54 Bashion wrote: Plz, tell me how the hell Spades beat Idra?
like 12 blue flame hellions that Idra couldn't scout
You mean didn't
How was he supposed to? wall off and marines around perimeter. Also this game between machine and spades, it incredibly incredibly sloppy.
Again, his zergling was killed at the watchtower by the hellions. He had enough queens to block his ramp, he just fucked up and didn't. That loss was all on IdrA's poor execution.
This isn't a solution do you know how fast 10-12 BFH kill a queen? Hint: Its very very quickly, it was BO loss due to the stupid nature of not ever being able to scout a terran.
You're right, I've actually never seen a zerg beat a terran.
On August 03 2011 09:54 Bashion wrote: Plz, tell me how the hell Spades beat Idra?
like 12 blue flame hellions that Idra couldn't scout
You mean didn't
How was he supposed to? wall off and marines around perimeter. Also this game between machine and spades, it incredibly incredibly sloppy.
Again, his zergling was killed at the watchtower by the hellions. He had enough queens to block his ramp, he just fucked up and didn't. That loss was all on IdrA's poor execution.
This isn't a solution do you know how fast 10-12 BFH kill a queen? Hint: Its very very quickly, it was BO loss due to the stupid nature of not ever being able to scout a terran.
No? He had 3 queens and a spinecrawler next to the ramp. He would've easily bought time.
Part of being a professional caster is staying enthusiastic about the material you're casting. So what if PainUser's bit at the end was a little awkward, but you've got to give him credit for soldiering on.
On August 03 2011 09:54 Bashion wrote: Plz, tell me how the hell Spades beat Idra?
like 12 blue flame hellions that Idra couldn't scout
You mean didn't
How was he supposed to? wall off and marines around perimeter. Also this game between machine and spades, it incredibly incredibly sloppy.
Again, his zergling was killed at the watchtower by the hellions. He had enough queens to block his ramp, he just fucked up and didn't. That loss was all on IdrA's poor execution.
This isn't a solution do you know how fast 10-12 BFH kill a queen? Hint: Its very very quickly, it was BO loss due to the stupid nature of not ever being able to scout a terran.
You're right, I've actually never seen a zerg beat a terran.
Really? I have seen plenty of zergs mop the floor with terrans.
So much whine and negativity in here >< Well, as expected when I saw the results of the 2nd game in OP :D Seems this will be an amazing event. Future incoming.
On August 03 2011 09:54 Bashion wrote: Plz, tell me how the hell Spades beat Idra?
like 12 blue flame hellions that Idra couldn't scout
You mean didn't
How was he supposed to? wall off and marines around perimeter. Also this game between machine and spades, it incredibly incredibly sloppy.
Again, his zergling was killed at the watchtower by the hellions. He had enough queens to block his ramp, he just fucked up and didn't. That loss was all on IdrA's poor execution.
This isn't a solution do you know how fast 10-12 BFH kill a queen? Hint: Its very very quickly, it was BO loss due to the stupid nature of not ever being able to scout a terran.
You're right, I've actually never seen a zerg beat a terran.
DRG, the "best TvZer", knew what build MMA was going to use against him, didn't even need to scout.
On August 03 2011 10:06 nufcrulz wrote: if it was awful then don't watch the game at all, there's no need to be whining about it..
We tuned in expecting a much higher quality game. Quite frankly both Machine and Spades would say how bad that game was. If the next game is this bad, I will be turning off the stream.
Spades actually played okay. His no harrassment during early game costed him the game, despite Machines few errors during the game (and not very good macro).
On August 03 2011 10:07 tree.hugger wrote: Part of being a professional caster is staying enthusiastic about the material you're casting. So what if PainUser's bit at the end was a little awkward, but you've got to give him credit for soldiering on.
At some point, even in NFL and NBA broadcasts, the commentators just go, "this is awful."
On August 03 2011 10:07 MrCon wrote: So much whine and negativity in here >< Well, as expected when I saw the results of the 2nd game in OP :D Seems this will be an amazing event. Future incoming.
most of the whine has nothing to do about game 2. Game 4 was just terrible, in all aspects.
On August 03 2011 09:54 Bashion wrote: Plz, tell me how the hell Spades beat Idra?
like 12 blue flame hellions that Idra couldn't scout
You mean didn't
How was he supposed to? wall off and marines around perimeter. Also this game between machine and spades, it incredibly incredibly sloppy.
Again, his zergling was killed at the watchtower by the hellions. He had enough queens to block his ramp, he just fucked up and didn't. That loss was all on IdrA's poor execution.
This isn't a solution do you know how fast 10-12 BFH kill a queen? Hint: Its very very quickly, it was BO loss due to the stupid nature of not ever being able to scout a terran.
You're right, I've actually never seen a zerg beat a terran.
DRG, the "best TvZer", knew what build MMA was going to use against him, didn't even need to scout.
Still got pretty handled.
BFH are pretty hard to deal with
lol? He went Roach Hydra against that build. Roaches = Good choice and MMA couldn't do much in the main but DRG forgot to block the ramp with the queen so they ran into the natural.
On August 03 2011 09:54 Bashion wrote: Plz, tell me how the hell Spades beat Idra?
like 12 blue flame hellions that Idra couldn't scout
You mean didn't
How was he supposed to? wall off and marines around perimeter. Also this game between machine and spades, it incredibly incredibly sloppy.
Again, his zergling was killed at the watchtower by the hellions. He had enough queens to block his ramp, he just fucked up and didn't. That loss was all on IdrA's poor execution.
This isn't a solution do you know how fast 10-12 BFH kill a queen? Hint: Its very very quickly, it was BO loss due to the stupid nature of not ever being able to scout a terran.
You're right, I've actually never seen a zerg beat a terran.
Really? I have seen plenty of zergs mop the floor with terrans.
Sarcasm...
If this build was unbeatable then no zerg would ever win and every terran would just throw 12 blue flame hellions at his opponent. Someone else noticed IdrA had three queens and a spine crawler, he could've stalled and at least tried to play properly. IdrA also plays as risky and greedy as possible then complains when he dies to some timing push. People praise him when it works and he gets a huge advantage over a passive player, then his fans groan whenever he gets exploited and scream bout cheesers. It's been known pretty much since beta that IdrA rolls over to early pushes a lot of the time.
On August 03 2011 10:03 Xkalibert wrote: Painuser trolling chat
yeah, hes just supposed to say "these games suck guys, just don't watch"
Nah, he's not. But there's no reason to be patronizing towards people giving their (extremely valid in this case) opinion on a game.
I don't mind the peoples opinion, and yes, the games so far sucked. The thing that nags me is people complaining about the guy doing his job.
Nicely said, totally agree. I missed the first two games though. :\
I think there is a difference between doing your job and just saying things that are far from true. Artosis does a pretty good job of letting people know when players are making mistakes while not being disrespectful towards them. From my viewpoint, I just wish casters would point out mistakes alot more for the sake of learning. Joe McBronze could watch that game and it is many levels above his play, but obvious mistakes were made. It isn't a big deal though.
My only complain (but this is a recurrent complain, this happens in MLG and in fact in EVERY SINGLE ONE of foreign event) is that the observing is terrible. After my whining thread about tourney structure, time to make a whining thread about foreign observers.
Misters tourney organizers : observing is a real skill. I won't say it's a job because I don't expect you you spend money on having observers, but please get people good at observing, and if your casters can't cast and observe at the same time, ask someone to observe or make solo casts + observer.
On August 03 2011 10:07 Fatalize wrote: lol at people dissing Painuser.
He's surely gonna say "yeah this was really awful, i'm surprised you guys are still watching this"
Seriously ...
he could've just not commented on it.. he was responding to comments in the stream chat. He didn't need to do that and he doesn't need to outright lie just because he's a caster either.
On August 03 2011 10:07 tree.hugger wrote: Part of being a professional caster is staying enthusiastic about the material you're casting. So what if PainUser's bit at the end was a little awkward, but you've got to give him credit for soldiering on.
At some point, even in NFL and NBA broadcasts, the commentators just go, "this is awful."
It's true, but I can sympathize with not being willing to go over that line, especially with people you know. Perhaps we should be discussion conflicts of interest in casting instead.
On August 03 2011 10:10 nyoken wrote: LOL machine vs future. They have a long history of bo7's on EG's vent so it will be interesting to see who wins in a match that actually matters.
I'm still waiting on him to send me those reps.
Personally I want to set up a showmatch between the two. a rehashing of that old BO7.
On August 03 2011 10:03 Xkalibert wrote: Painuser trolling chat
yeah, hes just supposed to say "these games suck guys, just don't watch"
Nah, he's not. But there's no reason to be patronizing towards people giving their (extremely valid in this case) opinion on a game.
I don't mind the peoples opinion, and yes, the games so far sucked. The thing that nags me is people complaining about the guy doing his job.
Nicely said, totally agree. I missed the first two games though. :\
I think there is a difference between doing your job and just saying things that are far from true. Artosis does a pretty good job of letting people know when players are making mistakes while not being disrespectful towards them. From my viewpoint, I just wish casters would point out mistakes alot more for the sake of learning. Joe McBronze could watch that game and it is many levels above his play, but obvious mistakes were made. It isn't a big deal though.
Well there's more emphasis on delivering a good show tonight since it's the league's premier.
Jibba mentioned the NBA broadcasters, etc., but what I think is best for StarCraft (short, multiple games) is to make what criticisms you have during the games and point out the bad then. In between games, try to remain neutral or up-beat so that the viewers don't have a bad taste in their mouths. Think of what PU said as a pallet cleanser between an appetizer and an entree.
On August 03 2011 10:03 Xkalibert wrote: Painuser trolling chat
yeah, hes just supposed to say "these games suck guys, just don't watch"
Nah, he's not. But there's no reason to be patronizing towards people giving their (extremely valid in this case) opinion on a game.
I don't mind the peoples opinion, and yes, the games so far sucked. The thing that nags me is people complaining about the guy doing his job.
Nicely said, totally agree. I missed the first two games though. :\
I think there is a difference between doing your job and just saying things that are far from true. Artosis does a pretty good job of letting people know when players are making mistakes while not being disrespectful towards them. From my viewpoint, I just wish casters would point out mistakes alot more for the sake of learning. Joe McBronze could watch that game and it is many levels above his play, but obvious mistakes were made. It isn't a big deal though.
Artosis is sometimes very disrespectful towards players(thebest for example). And painuser isn't artosis, everybody loves artosis(myself included) and everybody tunes in for the gsl. Painuser doesn't have the neither the popularity nor the tournament that artosis has in order to be able to "bash" on a player and still keep people excited the next games. And yes, I think the games have been bad so far, and people are totally in their rights to say things as it is, I just don't see the point of criticizing painuser when he's only doing his job, which is to keep people interested in the games.
Immortals don't counter hydra's very well Why did he not go for a collosi, even if it's not range upgraded it's always better vs hydra then an immortal.
On August 03 2011 10:21 SimDawg wrote: Gotta give Machine some props with this one. Very creative, execution had some problems.
Edit: I don't know what the casters are thinking, Machine has this in the bag.
Edit2: Guess that's why I'm not a caster.
Lol, are you kidding? That's not creative, it's from Losira, and IdrA copied that and uses it all the time. If he wasn't retarded and tried baneling busting in the beginning it would have worked too.
On August 03 2011 10:21 Xaeldaren wrote: Future, so good man. I mean, don't make a Robotics Bay AND makes an Immortal vs Hydralisks?
Holy shit, top level play there.
In this situation you just have to have stuff, immortal is still decent and can tank a little and when you lack production you'd better use what you have, even if not optimally.
I liked the nydus->creep for hydra and spines.... But have to agree with casters saying he should have just fallen back and expanded on his lead. And future's unit comp was just... Ya.
On August 03 2011 10:24 garlicface wrote: I get the feeling we might not see Puma tonight. I was thinking the last 2 picks for EG would be iNc/Demu, Demu/Puma, or iNc/Puma.
StrifeCro has me thinking StrifeCro/iNc or StrifeCro/Demu.
On August 03 2011 10:24 bennyaus wrote: All this shows us is how terrible the US scene is.
Well EG's top tier players are idra/demuslim/puma now. Why they haven't played demuslim/puma blows my mind. As for reign they only have kiwi/slush that are top tier players?
On August 03 2011 10:23 Jibba wrote: Immortal/VR > Hydra???
Also, lovely guardian shields.
He was floating money and he had production facilities. The units weren't great but I think he just built them because he needed everything he could get. Something is better than nothing
Too bad, poor execution from Machine, and Future choking a bit too hard
These are the worst "progamer" games ive ever seen in sc2.
Machine failing horribly with micro in his game vs spades, the whole PvZ on thaldarim was a farce, looked like low master level from beginning to the end.
god, i hoped to see slush vs demuslim or kiwi vs idra, all i see is random midlvl players duking it out and playing their worst games ever...
€: to make it even WORSE, they send strifecro, with an INCREDIBLE 49% record on NA.
On August 03 2011 10:26 DiaBoLuS wrote: These are the worst "progamer" games ive ever seen in sc2.
Machine failing horribly with micro in his game vs spades, the whole PvZ on thaldarim was a farce, looked like low master level from beginning to the end.
god, i hoped to see slush vs demuslim or kiwi vs idra, all i see is random midlvl players duking it out and playing their worst games ever...
i watched machine vs spades, and thinking about a comparison with DRG vs MMA is just unthinkable, its sad but koreans proved such high level of games that now watching the usual NA and mid tier EU is just not enough to entertain me
On August 03 2011 10:21 Xaeldaren wrote: Future, so good man. I mean, don't make a Robotics Bay AND makes an Immortal vs Hydralisks?
Holy shit, top level play there.
In this situation you just have to have stuff, immortal is still decent and can tank a little and when you lack production you'd better use what you have, even if not optimally.
He had 1400 in the bank constantly, he could have thrown down 7 cannons or more gateways and even if he could only warp zealots out of it, it would still have been better than floating all that money while doing some really bad micro. This is pretty disappointing because there's quite a few actually good players in some of the smaller teams (iS, ItsGosu, 4K etc) but then there's people that make the entire NA scene look bad.
He also lost his cyber core and (I think) didn't remake it (didn't see it on production tab) which may explain why he was making random units out of his other buildings (just to have SOMETHING)
On August 03 2011 10:27 darlhet wrote: i watched machine vs spades, and thinking about a comparison with DRG vs MMA is just unthinkable, its sad but koreans proved such high level of games that now watching the usual NA and mid tier EU is just not enough to entertain me
On August 03 2011 10:21 Xaeldaren wrote: Future, so good man. I mean, don't make a Robotics Bay AND makes an Immortal vs Hydralisks?
Holy shit, top level play there.
In this situation you just have to have stuff, immortal is still decent and can tank a little and when you lack production you'd better use what you have, even if not optimally.
He had 1400 in the bank constantly, he could have thrown down 7 cannons or more gateways and even if he could only warp zealots out of it, it would still have been better than floating all that money while doing some really bad micro. This is pretty disappointing because there's quite a few actually good players in some of the smaller teams (iS, ItsGosu, 4K etc) but then there's people that make the entire NA scene look bad.
On August 03 2011 10:25 MCDayC wrote: Please send DeMuslim to come out and show these Americans how to play an RTS.
Rudeness aside, you are so right! Starcraft 2 is pretty popular here, but "gamer" here in america generally refers to console players, everybody, and I mean almost everybody has a console here, PC gaming is generally frowned upon here. It's weird social stigmas, you can sit down and play xbox all day and be normal, or sit down and play PC games all day and be considered a no life.
On August 03 2011 10:28 hitpoint wrote: You guys are brutal. We've been spoiled by Korean games I guess. These guys aren't terrible.
Im hoping that is what this is, I feel like the NA scene has gotten worse after watching these games, but its possible that I have been just watching so much high level play from Korea and Europe.
On August 03 2011 10:27 Shaetan wrote: He also lost his cyber core and (I think) didn't remake it (didn't see it on production tab) which may explain why he was making random units out of his other buildings (just to have SOMETHING)
Nah, he started remaking it around when his gateway died. Think it actually finished before he lost the original core.
On August 03 2011 10:21 Xaeldaren wrote: Future, so good man. I mean, don't make a Robotics Bay AND makes an Immortal vs Hydralisks?
Holy shit, top level play there.
In this situation you just have to have stuff, immortal is still decent and can tank a little and when you lack production you'd better use what you have, even if not optimally.
He had 1400 in the bank constantly, he could have thrown down 7 cannons or more gateways and even if he could only warp zealots out of it, it would still have been better than floating all that money while doing some really bad micro. This is pretty disappointing because there's quite a few actually good players in some of the smaller teams (iS, ItsGosu, 4K etc) but then there's people that make the entire NA scene look bad.
He probably just choked. IF he built cannons Machine would have been forced to push in to stop them going up, which could have worked out one way or the other really. More gateways would have been great but I think he was just choking hard from playing under pressure in a team league like this.
Old version of the beach map!! It should have two towers and an extra base in the corner. Why do tournaments always do this I bet it will take months until they realize they should use the newer one.
On August 03 2011 10:21 Xaeldaren wrote: Future, so good man. I mean, don't make a Robotics Bay AND makes an Immortal vs Hydralisks?
Holy shit, top level play there.
In this situation you just have to have stuff, immortal is still decent and can tank a little and when you lack production you'd better use what you have, even if not optimally.
He had 1400 in the bank constantly, he could have thrown down 7 cannons or more gateways and even if he could only warp zealots out of it, it would still have been better than floating all that money while doing some really bad micro. This is pretty disappointing because there's quite a few actually good players in some of the smaller teams (iS, ItsGosu, 4K etc) but then there's people that make the entire NA scene look bad.
I agree but I don't know why you quoted me :D
Probably because you suggested that it was reasonable for Future to make an immortal, while in actuality it would probably be much better for him to invest in more gateways, or even cannons, instead.
On August 03 2011 10:28 hitpoint wrote: You guys are brutal. We've been spoiled by Korean games I guess. These guys aren't terrible.
You're wrong. Both machine and spades are much better than what they displayed in that much. The same applies to machine vs future. The players played awful in those games, they aren't players that regularly play that bad though.
you guys are a really pain in the ass, if u think u can play better, or put a better show, then why u guys doesnt playing? criticize is pretty easy.. t_t
On August 03 2011 10:28 hitpoint wrote: You guys are brutal. We've been spoiled by Korean games I guess. These guys aren't terrible.
Not saying that, but these games are, for 2 considered top tier teams, they are a big disipointment
these guys arent terrible in general.
but these GAMES were, not even comparing to korean games, just comparing to mid tier foreigner games.
On August 03 2011 10:32 TheLovingone wrote: you guys are a really pain in the ass, if u think u can play better, or put a better show, then why u guys doesnt playing? criticize is pretty easy.. t_t
acutally, not knowing when games are bad is even worse.
On August 03 2011 10:28 hitpoint wrote: You guys are brutal. We've been spoiled by Korean games I guess. These guys aren't terrible.
Not saying that, but these games are, for 2 considered top tier teams, they are a big disipointment
No, that last game was terrible. First, the baneling bust was just worthless. How can you expect that to work on a TalDarim wall?
Second, Machine goes into a hydra/spine all in, and Future defends despite consistently having 10-12 less stalkers than he should (floating 1400+), not using guardian shield and choosing poor engagement angles.
Painuser suggesting that PuMa's role is to just fly out to major tournaments and wear a t-shirt. Funny how Alex Garfield tried to sell it like something different from the SK deal when it effectively is the same thing.
On August 03 2011 10:28 hitpoint wrote: You guys are brutal. We've been spoiled by Korean games I guess. These guys aren't terrible.
You're wrong. Both machine and spades are much better than what they displayed in that much. The same applies to machine vs future. The players played awful in those games, they aren't players that regularly play that bad though.
So how am I wrong? I said these guys aren't terrible and your whole post is stating that.
On August 03 2011 10:21 Xaeldaren wrote: Future, so good man. I mean, don't make a Robotics Bay AND makes an Immortal vs Hydralisks?
Holy shit, top level play there.
In this situation you just have to have stuff, immortal is still decent and can tank a little and when you lack production you'd better use what you have, even if not optimally.
He had 1400 in the bank constantly, he could have thrown down 7 cannons or more gateways and even if he could only warp zealots out of it, it would still have been better than floating all that money while doing some really bad micro. This is pretty disappointing because there's quite a few actually good players in some of the smaller teams (iS, ItsGosu, 4K etc) but then there's people that make the entire NA scene look bad.
I agree but I don't know why you quoted me :D
Probably because you suggested that it was reasonable for Future to make an immortal, while in actuality it would probably be much better for him to invest in more gateways, or even cannons, instead.
Ha ok. Well I think he had enough for both anyway.
On August 03 2011 10:32 TheLovingone wrote: you guys are a really pain in the ass, if u think u can play better, or put a better show, then why u guys doesnt playing? criticize is pretty easy.. t_t
this post is so dumb i think there's no need to reply...
In all fairness it's the beginning of the season and his MR is grandmaster, so idk can you?
so? compare it to major or other ppl with 90% winrate with even higher MR, this is just HORRIBLE. My MR on EU is also low grandmaster, and im at 58%. a PROGAMER in team EG on NA server with 47% is just a pain to watch.
dont get my wrong, ladder doest say too much, but he should be better offracing with 80% HP units.
On August 03 2011 10:33 wats0n wrote: Painuser suggesting that PuMa's role is to just fly out to major tournaments and wear a t-shirt. Funny how Alex Garfield tried to sell it like something different from the SK deal when it effectively is the same thing.
On August 03 2011 10:32 TheLovingone wrote: you guys are a really pain in the ass, if u think u can play better, or put a better show, then why u guys doesnt playing? criticize is pretty easy.. t_t
You dont have to be a cook to know if food tastes terrible. These games are not at the expected "pro" level.
You might not like the criticism but the it might make the players train harder.
In all fairness it's the beginning of the season and his MR is grandmaster, so idk can you?
so? compare it to major or other ppl with 90% winrate with even higher MR, this is just HORRIBLE. My MR on EU is also low grandmaster, and im at 58%. a PROGAMER in team EG on NA server with 47% is just a pain to watch.
dont get my wrong, ladder doest say too much, but he should be better offracing with 80% HP units.
Not sure why you're surprised. The majority of E.G. is actually very weak. Besides IdrA and Demuslim they really have no talent.
On August 03 2011 10:33 wats0n wrote: Painuser suggesting that PuMa's role is to just fly out to major tournaments and wear a t-shirt. Funny how Alex Garfield tried to sell it like something different from the SK deal when it effectively is the same thing.
Yes b/c Painuser can read Alex's mind.
EG has already admitted PuMa is staying in Korea. I don't get the point of your post.
On August 03 2011 10:33 wats0n wrote: Painuser suggesting that PuMa's role is to just fly out to major tournaments and wear a t-shirt. Funny how Alex Garfield tried to sell it like something different from the SK deal when it effectively is the same thing.
Yes b/c Painuser can read Alex's mind.
EG has already admitted PuMa is staying in Korea. I don't get the point of your post.
Which doesn't preclude him from playing in online team leagues.
Also Puma is actually on EG, MC and Nada are just representing SK when they're not in Korea. They are still on oGs, Puma isn't on TSL.
Decent play by Future as well that game, cute trickery with the hallucinations. Needed something more than blink stalkers against mass roach on Belshir though, too many attack paths for them to win like they do on some other maps.
On August 03 2011 10:44 dooraven wrote: Some decent play from both players here. But yeah this map is terrible for non zerg players. I have no idea why GSL uses this in the map pool.
On August 03 2011 10:44 dooraven wrote: Some decent play from both players here. But yeah this map is terrible for non zerg players. I have no idea why GSL uses this in the map pool.
On August 03 2011 10:33 wats0n wrote: Painuser suggesting that PuMa's role is to just fly out to major tournaments and wear a t-shirt. Funny how Alex Garfield tried to sell it like something different from the SK deal when it effectively is the same thing.
Yes b/c Painuser can read Alex's mind.
EG has already admitted PuMa is staying in Korea. I don't get the point of your post.
Which doesn't preclude him from playing in online team leagues.
Also Puma is actually on EG, MC and Nada are just representing SK when they're not in Korea. They are still on oGs, Puma isn't on TSL.
Alex Garfield said he wanted PuMa to move in with the team so he could be supported with a practice environment. Instead he's by himself in Korea and only flying out to major tournaments. What are you not getting? The fact that EG's actions are contradicting his statements on Live on Three? The fact that PuMa flying out only for events is tantamount to the SK deal?
Obviously he can participate in online events, but he won't. It's pointless and with the lag and time zone difference it's impractical. That has nothing to do with the actuality of his status on the team.
On August 03 2011 10:44 dooraven wrote: Some decent play from both players here. But yeah this map is terrible for non zerg players. I have no idea why GSL uses this in the map pool.
On August 03 2011 10:44 dooraven wrote: Some decent play from both players here. But yeah this map is terrible for non zerg players. I have no idea why GSL uses this in the map pool.
On August 03 2011 10:44 dooraven wrote: Some decent play from both players here. But yeah this map is terrible for non zerg players. I have no idea why GSL uses this in the map pool.
Someone needs to beat the Terrans ><
Didn't qxc start his all-kill off on Bel'Shir?
At least terran can make a planetary fortress.
It's still horrible for terrans too. I think only Dual Sight is worse.
On August 03 2011 10:44 dooraven wrote: Some decent play from both players here. But yeah this map is terrible for non zerg players. I have no idea why GSL uses this in the map pool.
On August 03 2011 10:44 dooraven wrote: Some decent play from both players here. But yeah this map is terrible for non zerg players. I have no idea why GSL uses this in the map pool.
Someone needs to beat the Terrans ><
Didn't qxc start his all-kill off on Bel'Shir?
At least terran can make a planetary fortress.
Ye but muta harass on that map is rage quit inducing
On August 03 2011 10:44 dooraven wrote: Some decent play from both players here. But yeah this map is terrible for non zerg players. I have no idea why GSL uses this in the map pool.
On August 03 2011 10:33 wats0n wrote: Painuser suggesting that PuMa's role is to just fly out to major tournaments and wear a t-shirt. Funny how Alex Garfield tried to sell it like something different from the SK deal when it effectively is the same thing.
Yes b/c Painuser can read Alex's mind.
EG has already admitted PuMa is staying in Korea. I don't get the point of your post.
Which doesn't preclude him from playing in online team leagues.
Also Puma is actually on EG, MC and Nada are just representing SK when they're not in Korea. They are still on oGs, Puma isn't on TSL.
Alex Garfield said he wanted PuMa to move in with the team so he could be supported with a practice environment. Instead he's by himself in Korea and only flying out to major tournaments. What are you not getting? The fact that EG's actions are contradicting his statements on Live on Three? The fact that PuMa flying out only for events is tantamount to the SK deal?
Obviously he can participate in online events, but he won't. It's pointless and with the lag and time zone difference it's impractical. That has nothing to do with the actuality of his status on the team.
You obviously haven't been keeping up. Puma and EG have said that he is staying in korea, but is on good terms with all his old practice friends there and will remain in korea to train. He will fly out a week before foreign tourneys to get over jet-lag and meet up with and train with the rest of EG.
Kiwi not active enough with his phoenix, he could ravage mineral lines ignoring the spores. edit : but couldn't have defended this push without graviton so perhaps it's on purpose :p
Man, I played a game like this just a few hours ago where my opponent went mass phoenix with some void ray backup. Freaking hard to deal with. When I finally got infestors they where picked up instantly.
On August 03 2011 10:33 wats0n wrote: Painuser suggesting that PuMa's role is to just fly out to major tournaments and wear a t-shirt. Funny how Alex Garfield tried to sell it like something different from the SK deal when it effectively is the same thing.
Yes b/c Painuser can read Alex's mind.
EG has already admitted PuMa is staying in Korea. I don't get the point of your post.
Which doesn't preclude him from playing in online team leagues.
Also Puma is actually on EG, MC and Nada are just representing SK when they're not in Korea. They are still on oGs, Puma isn't on TSL.
Alex Garfield said he wanted PuMa to move in with the team so he could be supported with a practice environment. Instead he's by himself in Korea and only flying out to major tournaments. What are you not getting? The fact that EG's actions are contradicting his statements on Live on Three? The fact that PuMa flying out only for events is tantamount to the SK deal?
Obviously he can participate in online events, but he won't. It's pointless and with the lag and time zone difference it's impractical. That has nothing to do with the actuality of his status on the team.
You obviously haven't been keeping up. Puma and EG have said that he is staying in korea, but is on good terms with all his old practice friends there and will remain in korea to train. He will fly out a week before foreign tourneys to get over jet-lag and meet up with and train with the rest of EG.
? That's nothing I don't know. You're misinterpreting my argument.
EG signed a guy to just wear their t-shirt at major events. That's exactly what SK did. Saying PuMa is on EG while he is in Korea is the equivalent of saying that a tree that falls in the woods makes a sound. He's still only repping EG at the big tournaments just like the SK deal with MC.
On August 03 2011 10:33 wats0n wrote: Painuser suggesting that PuMa's role is to just fly out to major tournaments and wear a t-shirt. Funny how Alex Garfield tried to sell it like something different from the SK deal when it effectively is the same thing.
Yes b/c Painuser can read Alex's mind.
EG has already admitted PuMa is staying in Korea. I don't get the point of your post.
Which doesn't preclude him from playing in online team leagues.
Also Puma is actually on EG, MC and Nada are just representing SK when they're not in Korea. They are still on oGs, Puma isn't on TSL.
Alex Garfield said he wanted PuMa to move in with the team so he could be supported with a practice environment. Instead he's by himself in Korea and only flying out to major tournaments. What are you not getting? The fact that EG's actions are contradicting his statements on Live on Three? The fact that PuMa flying out only for events is tantamount to the SK deal?
Obviously he can participate in online events, but he won't. It's pointless and with the lag and time zone difference it's impractical. That has nothing to do with the actuality of his status on the team.
You obviously haven't been keeping up. Puma and EG have said that he is staying in korea, but is on good terms with all his old practice friends there and will remain in korea to train. He will fly out a week before foreign tourneys to get over jet-lag and meet up with and train with the rest of EG.
? That's nothing I don't know. You're misinterpreting my argument.
EG signed a guy to just wear their t-shirt at major events. That's exactly what SK did. Saying PuMa is on EG while he is in Korea is the equivalent of saying that a tree that falls in the woods makes a sound. He's still only repping EG at the big tournaments just like the SK deal with MC.
Huk is wearing a TL shirt at events, other than that he is basically oGs now.
On August 03 2011 10:33 wats0n wrote: Painuser suggesting that PuMa's role is to just fly out to major tournaments and wear a t-shirt. Funny how Alex Garfield tried to sell it like something different from the SK deal when it effectively is the same thing.
Yes b/c Painuser can read Alex's mind.
EG has already admitted PuMa is staying in Korea. I don't get the point of your post.
Which doesn't preclude him from playing in online team leagues.
Also Puma is actually on EG, MC and Nada are just representing SK when they're not in Korea. They are still on oGs, Puma isn't on TSL.
Alex Garfield said he wanted PuMa to move in with the team so he could be supported with a practice environment. Instead he's by himself in Korea and only flying out to major tournaments. What are you not getting? The fact that EG's actions are contradicting his statements on Live on Three? The fact that PuMa flying out only for events is tantamount to the SK deal?
Obviously he can participate in online events, but he won't. It's pointless and with the lag and time zone difference it's impractical. That has nothing to do with the actuality of his status on the team.
You obviously haven't been keeping up. Puma and EG have said that he is staying in korea, but is on good terms with all his old practice friends there and will remain in korea to train. He will fly out a week before foreign tourneys to get over jet-lag and meet up with and train with the rest of EG.
? That's nothing I don't know. You're misinterpreting my argument.
EG signed a guy to just wear their t-shirt at major events. That's exactly what SK did. Saying PuMa is on EG while he is in Korea is the equivalent of saying that a tree that falls in the woods makes a sound. He's still only repping EG at the big tournaments just like the SK deal with MC.
Huk is wearing a TL shirt at events, other than that he is basically oGs now.
Huk lives in a TL established house with teammates. Try again?
On August 03 2011 11:01 Pros wrote: Ultras would stomp this so hard :s
archons/immortals/zealots RIP apart ultras, and kiwi had most of those unit to deal with roaches already. ultras are really decent vs zealots, stalkers and great vs collosus.
that's why you need infestors lul, talk about a unit who would stomp that comp
Do pheonix do extra damage against light units? And are hydras considered light? Either way I think the build against kiwis style would be roach/infestor.
On August 03 2011 10:33 wats0n wrote: Painuser suggesting that PuMa's role is to just fly out to major tournaments and wear a t-shirt. Funny how Alex Garfield tried to sell it like something different from the SK deal when it effectively is the same thing.
Yes b/c Painuser can read Alex's mind.
EG has already admitted PuMa is staying in Korea. I don't get the point of your post.
Which doesn't preclude him from playing in online team leagues.
Also Puma is actually on EG, MC and Nada are just representing SK when they're not in Korea. They are still on oGs, Puma isn't on TSL.
Alex Garfield said he wanted PuMa to move in with the team so he could be supported with a practice environment. Instead he's by himself in Korea and only flying out to major tournaments. What are you not getting? The fact that EG's actions are contradicting his statements on Live on Three? The fact that PuMa flying out only for events is tantamount to the SK deal?
Obviously he can participate in online events, but he won't. It's pointless and with the lag and time zone difference it's impractical. That has nothing to do with the actuality of his status on the team.
You obviously haven't been keeping up. Puma and EG have said that he is staying in korea, but is on good terms with all his old practice friends there and will remain in korea to train. He will fly out a week before foreign tourneys to get over jet-lag and meet up with and train with the rest of EG.
? That's nothing I don't know. You're misinterpreting my argument.
EG signed a guy to just wear their t-shirt at major events. That's exactly what SK did. Saying PuMa is on EG while he is in Korea is the equivalent of saying that a tree that falls in the woods makes a sound. He's still only repping EG at the big tournaments just like the SK deal with MC.
Huk is wearing a TL shirt at events, other than that he is basically oGs now.
Huk lives in a TL established house with teammates. Try again?
Lol wtf? he lives in the oGs house and his only teammate there is Jinro. He is also part of oGs' GSTL team.
On August 03 2011 11:04 MrDudeMan wrote: Do pheonix do extra damage against light units? And are hydras considered light? Either way I think the build against kiwis style would be roach/infestor.
Guys, protoss doesn't have a harass unit.... How does blizzard get away with saying that when DTs and Phoenixes are in the game. Comparable to muta/lings imo.
On August 03 2011 11:04 MrDudeMan wrote: Do pheonix do extra damage against light units? And are hydras considered light? Either way I think the build against kiwis style would be roach/infestor.
yes they do extra vs light, yes hydra's are light, and possible would have to see honestly on control. Notice how I guarantee it kiwi would have gotten templar for just feedback if he saw infestors as strife made no ifnestors till like 20 minutes.
I'm playing against a protoss who just crushed my army without ease.
Lets make the same army and see how it goes?
switched to infestors WAY to late I think. would require even more henious of micro with burrow unburrow with layers of infestors fungleing the obs and phenoix's. I'm thinking good things of infested terran en mass in this situation as well. micro them spread out a bit.
god thats a lot of micro though. I hope EG can actualy use puma.
I'm not sure how he thought hydras would be the answer, shouldn't someone of his caliber know that phoenix actually rape hydra? Corruptor or faster fungal would have dealt with it so much better.
On August 03 2011 10:33 wats0n wrote: Painuser suggesting that PuMa's role is to just fly out to major tournaments and wear a t-shirt. Funny how Alex Garfield tried to sell it like something different from the SK deal when it effectively is the same thing.
Yes b/c Painuser can read Alex's mind.
EG has already admitted PuMa is staying in Korea. I don't get the point of your post.
Which doesn't preclude him from playing in online team leagues.
Also Puma is actually on EG, MC and Nada are just representing SK when they're not in Korea. They are still on oGs, Puma isn't on TSL.
Alex Garfield said he wanted PuMa to move in with the team so he could be supported with a practice environment. Instead he's by himself in Korea and only flying out to major tournaments. What are you not getting? The fact that EG's actions are contradicting his statements on Live on Three? The fact that PuMa flying out only for events is tantamount to the SK deal?
Obviously he can participate in online events, but he won't. It's pointless and with the lag and time zone difference it's impractical. That has nothing to do with the actuality of his status on the team.
You obviously haven't been keeping up. Puma and EG have said that he is staying in korea, but is on good terms with all his old practice friends there and will remain in korea to train. He will fly out a week before foreign tourneys to get over jet-lag and meet up with and train with the rest of EG.
? That's nothing I don't know. You're misinterpreting my argument.
EG signed a guy to just wear their t-shirt at major events. That's exactly what SK did. Saying PuMa is on EG while he is in Korea is the equivalent of saying that a tree that falls in the woods makes a sound. He's still only repping EG at the big tournaments just like the SK deal with MC.
Huk is wearing a TL shirt at events, other than that he is basically oGs now.
Huk lives in a TL established house with teammates. Try again?
On August 03 2011 11:04 Crazypyro1 wrote: Guys, protoss doesn't have a harass unit.... How does blizzard get away with saying that when DTs and Phoenixes are in the game. Comparable to muta/lings imo.
When there are 20 Viking you can call them a harass unit as well -___- Dustin also specifically said a "raider", most likely something that can kill buildings as well
On August 03 2011 10:33 wats0n wrote: Painuser suggesting that PuMa's role is to just fly out to major tournaments and wear a t-shirt. Funny how Alex Garfield tried to sell it like something different from the SK deal when it effectively is the same thing.
Yes b/c Painuser can read Alex's mind.
EG has already admitted PuMa is staying in Korea. I don't get the point of your post.
Which doesn't preclude him from playing in online team leagues.
Also Puma is actually on EG, MC and Nada are just representing SK when they're not in Korea. They are still on oGs, Puma isn't on TSL.
Alex Garfield said he wanted PuMa to move in with the team so he could be supported with a practice environment. Instead he's by himself in Korea and only flying out to major tournaments. What are you not getting? The fact that EG's actions are contradicting his statements on Live on Three? The fact that PuMa flying out only for events is tantamount to the SK deal?
Obviously he can participate in online events, but he won't. It's pointless and with the lag and time zone difference it's impractical. That has nothing to do with the actuality of his status on the team.
You obviously haven't been keeping up. Puma and EG have said that he is staying in korea, but is on good terms with all his old practice friends there and will remain in korea to train. He will fly out a week before foreign tourneys to get over jet-lag and meet up with and train with the rest of EG.
? That's nothing I don't know. You're misinterpreting my argument.
EG signed a guy to just wear their t-shirt at major events. That's exactly what SK did. Saying PuMa is on EG while he is in Korea is the equivalent of saying that a tree that falls in the woods makes a sound. He's still only repping EG at the big tournaments just like the SK deal with MC.
Huk is wearing a TL shirt at events, other than that he is basically oGs now.
Huk lives in a TL established house with teammates. Try again?
Lol wtf? he lives in the oGs house and his only teammate there is Jinro. He is also part of oGs' GSTL team.
It's a TL-oGS house. What are you arguing against? Jinro, Haypro, Ret, and TLO have all lived there. He's with Jinro at the moment.
On August 03 2011 11:04 Crazypyro1 wrote: Guys, protoss doesn't have a harass unit.... How does blizzard get away with saying that when DTs and Phoenixes are in the game. Comparable to muta/lings imo.
When there are 20 Viking you can call them a harass unit as well -___- Dustin also specifically said a "raider", most likely something that can kill buildings as well
Idk, I feel like void rays and dts both take out buildings pretty fast and they are both used in the current metagame as harass.... Phoenixes seem like raiders, just can't attack ground.... Do protoss really need another way to harass zerg? :S
On August 03 2011 10:33 wats0n wrote: Painuser suggesting that PuMa's role is to just fly out to major tournaments and wear a t-shirt. Funny how Alex Garfield tried to sell it like something different from the SK deal when it effectively is the same thing.
Yes b/c Painuser can read Alex's mind.
EG has already admitted PuMa is staying in Korea. I don't get the point of your post.
Which doesn't preclude him from playing in online team leagues.
Also Puma is actually on EG, MC and Nada are just representing SK when they're not in Korea. They are still on oGs, Puma isn't on TSL.
Alex Garfield said he wanted PuMa to move in with the team so he could be supported with a practice environment. Instead he's by himself in Korea and only flying out to major tournaments. What are you not getting? The fact that EG's actions are contradicting his statements on Live on Three? The fact that PuMa flying out only for events is tantamount to the SK deal?
Obviously he can participate in online events, but he won't. It's pointless and with the lag and time zone difference it's impractical. That has nothing to do with the actuality of his status on the team.
You obviously haven't been keeping up. Puma and EG have said that he is staying in korea, but is on good terms with all his old practice friends there and will remain in korea to train. He will fly out a week before foreign tourneys to get over jet-lag and meet up with and train with the rest of EG.
? That's nothing I don't know. You're misinterpreting my argument.
EG signed a guy to just wear their t-shirt at major events. That's exactly what SK did. Saying PuMa is on EG while he is in Korea is the equivalent of saying that a tree that falls in the woods makes a sound. He's still only repping EG at the big tournaments just like the SK deal with MC.
Huk is wearing a TL shirt at events, other than that he is basically oGs now.
Huk lives in a TL established house with teammates. Try again?
He sleeps right next to MC in korea. He went to the finals with inka. He wears the OGS jacket all the time. He'll be on Team liquid for life but hes just as korean as Jinro now.
EG has already admitted PuMa is staying in Korea. I don't get the point of your post.
Which doesn't preclude him from playing in online team leagues.
Also Puma is actually on EG, MC and Nada are just representing SK when they're not in Korea. They are still on oGs, Puma isn't on TSL.
Alex Garfield said he wanted PuMa to move in with the team so he could be supported with a practice environment. Instead he's by himself in Korea and only flying out to major tournaments. What are you not getting? The fact that EG's actions are contradicting his statements on Live on Three? The fact that PuMa flying out only for events is tantamount to the SK deal?
Obviously he can participate in online events, but he won't. It's pointless and with the lag and time zone difference it's impractical. That has nothing to do with the actuality of his status on the team.
You obviously haven't been keeping up. Puma and EG have said that he is staying in korea, but is on good terms with all his old practice friends there and will remain in korea to train. He will fly out a week before foreign tourneys to get over jet-lag and meet up with and train with the rest of EG.
? That's nothing I don't know. You're misinterpreting my argument.
EG signed a guy to just wear their t-shirt at major events. That's exactly what SK did. Saying PuMa is on EG while he is in Korea is the equivalent of saying that a tree that falls in the woods makes a sound. He's still only repping EG at the big tournaments just like the SK deal with MC.
Huk is wearing a TL shirt at events, other than that he is basically oGs now.
Huk lives in a TL established house with teammates. Try again?
Lol wtf? he lives in the oGs house and his only teammate there is Jinro. He is also part of oGs' GSTL team.
It's a TL-oGS house. What are you arguing against? Jinro, Haypro, Ret, and TLO have all lived there. He's with Jinro at the moment.
Lol, TLO lived there for like a month ` and Haypro and Ret left. It was a oGs-TL house, now it's an oGs house with two TL players practicing in it. And it isn't "TL established", it was a partnership deal that allowed them to go into the oGs-established house.
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
What do you mean they are supposed to counter phoenix. They counter light airharass just fine but for heavy airplay you need corruptor/muta. Just like marines counter voidrays but if there's a lot of them you probably need vikings.
On August 03 2011 11:04 Crazypyro1 wrote: Guys, protoss doesn't have a harass unit.... How does blizzard get away with saying that when DTs and Phoenixes are in the game. Comparable to muta/lings imo.
When there are 20 Viking you can call them a harass unit as well -___- Dustin also specifically said a "raider", most likely something that can kill buildings as well
Idk, I feel like void rays and dts both take out buildings pretty fast and they are both used in the current metagame as harass.... Phoenixes seem like raiders, just can't attack ground.... Do protoss really need another way to harass zerg? :S
I think he means a unit that kills lots of workers quickly. DT's dont have any spread and are a huge investment. Zergs have banelings and terrans have hellions but protoss don't really have anything.
On August 03 2011 11:04 Crazypyro1 wrote: Guys, protoss doesn't have a harass unit.... How does blizzard get away with saying that when DTs and Phoenixes are in the game. Comparable to muta/lings imo.
When there are 20 Viking you can call them a harass unit as well -___- Dustin also specifically said a "raider", most likely something that can kill buildings as well
Idk, I feel like void rays and dts both take out buildings pretty fast and they are both used in the current metagame as harass.... Phoenixes seem like raiders, just can't attack ground.... Do protoss really need another way to harass zerg? :S
I think they mean an all around harass unit...
When there are 20 Hellions they are devestating, but a small handful like 5-6 Hellions are amazing. Phoenixes in small numbers aren't too good late game, usually not worth the cost, where as something like a baneling dropp, the mineral only hellion and the super efficient marauder/ling drops shine all game around. DT's are shut down by a spore and two spines, usually you need to invest into 4-5 DT's (500+gas) just to snipe that spore quickly to do damage, which when you compare it to a baneling drop or hellion harass is...kinda lame
You can't just say Protoss is fine with harass units just because a player went to a extreme with a particular type of unit, That isn't harassing, that is a unit combination with the capability of devastating harass.
EG has already admitted PuMa is staying in Korea. I don't get the point of your post.
Which doesn't preclude him from playing in online team leagues.
Also Puma is actually on EG, MC and Nada are just representing SK when they're not in Korea. They are still on oGs, Puma isn't on TSL.
Alex Garfield said he wanted PuMa to move in with the team so he could be supported with a practice environment. Instead he's by himself in Korea and only flying out to major tournaments. What are you not getting? The fact that EG's actions are contradicting his statements on Live on Three? The fact that PuMa flying out only for events is tantamount to the SK deal?
Obviously he can participate in online events, but he won't. It's pointless and with the lag and time zone difference it's impractical. That has nothing to do with the actuality of his status on the team.
You obviously haven't been keeping up. Puma and EG have said that he is staying in korea, but is on good terms with all his old practice friends there and will remain in korea to train. He will fly out a week before foreign tourneys to get over jet-lag and meet up with and train with the rest of EG.
? That's nothing I don't know. You're misinterpreting my argument.
EG signed a guy to just wear their t-shirt at major events. That's exactly what SK did. Saying PuMa is on EG while he is in Korea is the equivalent of saying that a tree that falls in the woods makes a sound. He's still only repping EG at the big tournaments just like the SK deal with MC.
Huk is wearing a TL shirt at events, other than that he is basically oGs now.
Huk lives in a TL established house with teammates. Try again?
Lol wtf? he lives in the oGs house and his only teammate there is Jinro. He is also part of oGs' GSTL team.
It's a TL-oGS house. What are you arguing against? Jinro, Haypro, Ret, and TLO have all lived there. He's with Jinro at the moment.
Lol, TLO lived there for like a month ` and Haypro and Ret left. It was a oGs-TL house, now it's an oGs house with two TL players practicing in it. And it isn't "TL established", it was a partnership deal that allowed them to go into the oGs-established house.
I didn't say TL founded the house. I said that they established a house for their members to live in and that's where Huk lives. PuMa doesn't live in the EG house, he lives in Korea. Do you not see the logic?
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
- Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix
- Corruptors are awful against anything
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine.
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
Corruptors are never the answer against phoenix, they have no other use and eat supply against blink stalkers.
Hydra + infestor is the only counter to mass phoenix, strifecro spent too much gas on hydra and had 10 too few infesters every battle.
Yes, phoenix do bonus damage to light, making them effective against lifted hydras. For zergs who get frustrated at phoenix play, don't neglect your armor upgrades. The phoenix attack is actually 5 x 2, and therefore takes a huge hit from armor; many toss will neglect air upgrades, and if they don't their ground upgrades are going to be slower.
Which doesn't preclude him from playing in online team leagues.
Also Puma is actually on EG, MC and Nada are just representing SK when they're not in Korea. They are still on oGs, Puma isn't on TSL.
Alex Garfield said he wanted PuMa to move in with the team so he could be supported with a practice environment. Instead he's by himself in Korea and only flying out to major tournaments. What are you not getting? The fact that EG's actions are contradicting his statements on Live on Three? The fact that PuMa flying out only for events is tantamount to the SK deal?
Obviously he can participate in online events, but he won't. It's pointless and with the lag and time zone difference it's impractical. That has nothing to do with the actuality of his status on the team.
You obviously haven't been keeping up. Puma and EG have said that he is staying in korea, but is on good terms with all his old practice friends there and will remain in korea to train. He will fly out a week before foreign tourneys to get over jet-lag and meet up with and train with the rest of EG.
? That's nothing I don't know. You're misinterpreting my argument.
EG signed a guy to just wear their t-shirt at major events. That's exactly what SK did. Saying PuMa is on EG while he is in Korea is the equivalent of saying that a tree that falls in the woods makes a sound. He's still only repping EG at the big tournaments just like the SK deal with MC.
Huk is wearing a TL shirt at events, other than that he is basically oGs now.
Huk lives in a TL established house with teammates. Try again?
Lol wtf? he lives in the oGs house and his only teammate there is Jinro. He is also part of oGs' GSTL team.
It's a TL-oGS house. What are you arguing against? Jinro, Haypro, Ret, and TLO have all lived there. He's with Jinro at the moment.
Lol, TLO lived there for like a month ` and Haypro and Ret left. It was a oGs-TL house, now it's an oGs house with two TL players practicing in it. And it isn't "TL established", it was a partnership deal that allowed them to go into the oGs-established house.
I didn't say TL founded the house. I said that they established a house for their members to live in and that's where Huk lives. PuMa doesn't live in the EG house, he lives in Korea. Do you not see the logic?
On August 03 2011 11:07 Heavenly wrote: Lol, TLO lived there for like a month ` and Haypro and Ret left. It was a oGs-TL house, now it's an oGs house with two TL players practicing in it. And it isn't "TL established", it was a partnership deal that allowed them to go into the oGs-established house.
It was an oGs-TL house when there were both oGs and TL players living there, and since that's still the case, it's no longer an oGs-TL house?
What?
The team's name in GSTL is "oGs-TL". When streetfightervoice-guy announces their players, he says "oGs-TL". I don't get what you're arguing.
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
- Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix
- Corruptors are awful against anything
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine.
Maybe you should watch the ICCUP weekly because even for someone as amazing as Sage that is significantly easier said that done
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
- Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix
- Corruptors are awful against anything
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine.
Corruptors are awful against everything but phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had.
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
- Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix
- Corruptors are awful against anything
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine.
Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had.
Corruptors take supply for nothing. You get rid of the phoenix but you have 40 supply of useless corruptors. Exact same problem as the protoss collossus deathball basically.
Corruptor is the worst unit of the game, even blizzard game designer said that it's bad.
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
- Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix
- Corruptors are awful against anything
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine.
Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had.
Corrupters are awful against everything? What game do you play. They are amazing vs Phoenix/Carriers (in small numbers)/Vikings/Battlecruisers.
This reminds me of an earlier SOTG where Painuser was saying how good Zealots were and Inc/Tyler argued against him saying they're worthless. Lo and behold, Chargelots are like the central unit of the PvT metagame right now. People need to try these things before saying they're worthless.
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
- Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix
- Corruptors are awful against anything
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine.
Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had.
Corrupters are awful against everything? What game do you play. They are amazing vs Phoenix/Carriers (in small numbers)/Vikings/Battlecruisers.
This reminds me of an earlier SOTG where Painuser was saying how good Zealots were and Inc/Tyler argued against him saying they're worthless. Lo and behold, Chargelots are like the central unit of the PvT metagame right now. People need to try these things before saying they're worthless.
He meant corrupters are awful against everything else in the PvZ matchup. No one uses carriers and as soon as the phoenixes die, you realize you have 40 food sitting around in the air while you get raped by archon/zealot.
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
- Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix
- Corruptors are awful against anything
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine.
Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had.
Corruptors take supply for nothing. You get rid of the phoenix but you have 40 supply of useless corruptors. Exact same problem as the protoss collossus deathball basically.
Corruptor is the worst unit of the game, even blizzard game designer said that it's bad.
That is an idiotic way of thinking about it. You cancel out like 20 Phoenixes, that is no small investment and Chargelot Archon WITHOUT Phoenix is weaker than with Phoenix and is MUCH easier to deal with just with a regular Roach army
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
- Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix
- Corruptors are awful against anything
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine.
Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had.
Corrupters are awful against everything? What game do you play. They are amazing vs Phoenix/Carriers (in small numbers)/Vikings/Battlecruisers.
This reminds me of an earlier SOTG where Painuser was saying how good Zealots were and Inc/Tyler argued against him saying they're worthless. Lo and behold, Chargelots are like the central unit of the PvT metagame right now. People need to try these things before saying they're worthless.
He meant corrupters are awful against everything else in the PvZ matchup. No one uses carriers and as soon as the phoenixes die, you realize you have 40 food sitting around in the air while you get raped by archon/zealot.
You realise that you have killed 40 food of his army though? and that 40 food can turn into Broodlords which hard counter Zealot/Archon.
Ofcourse you can stop it with a bio army. You need to EMP the sentries so they can only use 1 guardian shield. Also put your scvs on hold position or have buildings to block. Marine Marauder + Medivacs with EMP and equal upgrades absolutely shred a no area of effect Protoss army.
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
- Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix
- Corruptors are awful against anything
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine.
Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had.
Corruptors take supply for nothing. You get rid of the phoenix but you have 40 supply of useless corruptors. Exact same problem as the protoss collossus deathball basically.
Corruptor is the worst unit of the game, even blizzard game designer said that it's bad.
They're a bad unit but we are talking about that specific game They would have killed all the phoenix which is good. Then he can morph some or at least have a ground army that can fight the zealot ball while kiwi transition to blink stalkers.
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
- Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix
- Corruptors are awful against anything
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine.
Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had.
Corrupters are awful against everything? What game do you play. They are amazing vs Phoenix/Carriers (in small numbers)/Vikings/Battlecruisers.
This reminds me of an earlier SOTG where Painuser was saying how good Zealots were and Inc/Tyler argued against him saying they're worthless. Lo and behold, Chargelots are like the central unit of the PvT metagame right now. People need to try these things before saying they're worthless.
He meant corrupters are awful against everything else in the PvZ matchup. No one uses carriers and as soon as the phoenixes die, you realize you have 40 food sitting around in the air while you get raped by archon/zealot.
You realise that you have killed 40 food of his army though? and that 40 food can turn into Broodlords which hard counter Zealot/Archon.
Except because of the huge amount of Corruptors you have to make, you can't hold his ground force with whatever ground force you have. You think he's gonna sit there and wait for you to get hive tech and greater spire and morph into broods just because you killed his phoenixes?
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
- Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix
- Corruptors are awful against anything
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine.
Corrupters tank alot of damage. Just make 2 of them as moving turrets to help ward off sharking phoenixes. Then, use Hydras + Fungal to take them out quickly.
On August 03 2011 11:17 mTw|NarutO wrote: Ofcourse you can stop it with a bio army. You need to EMP the sentries so they can only use 1 guardian shield. Also put your scvs on hold position or have buildings to block. Marine Marauder + Medivacs with EMP and equal upgrades absolutely shred a no area of effect Protoss army.
put the scv on hold too (or better have supply depots as a wall so the zealots waste their charge on it
I honestly thought EG would win, but after seeing their play I'm not convinced they are very good compared to other pro-teams. I hope that changes with PuMa and their new training house!
On August 03 2011 11:19 Kfish wrote: I honestly thought EG would win, but after seeing their play I'm not convinced they are very good compared to other pro-teams. I hope that changes with PuMa and their new training house!
EG Hwaiting!
Gratz Reign~!
EG is mostly made up of players who were decent in beta + Idra & Demu
Although I'm not really sure the games were all that great, this is an extremely exciting format. 500 bucks on the line, unseating a current champion gives you an extra 100 bucks (does each win increase that by 100?) and winner's league format makes for a really really cool experience.
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
- Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix
- Corruptors are awful against anything
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine.
Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had.
Corrupters are awful against everything? What game do you play. They are amazing vs Phoenix/Carriers (in small numbers)/Vikings/Battlecruisers.
This reminds me of an earlier SOTG where Painuser was saying how good Zealots were and Inc/Tyler argued against him saying they're worthless. Lo and behold, Chargelots are like the central unit of the PvT metagame right now. People need to try these things before saying they're worthless.
He meant corrupters are awful against everything else in the PvZ matchup. No one uses carriers and as soon as the phoenixes die, you realize you have 40 food sitting around in the air while you get raped by archon/zealot.
You realise that you have killed 40 food of his army though? and that 40 food can turn into Broodlords which hard counter Zealot/Archon.
Except because of the huge amount of Corruptors you have to make, you can't hold his ground force with whatever ground force you have. You think he's gonna sit there and wait for you to get hive tech and greater spire and morph into broods just because you killed his phoenixes?
Rofl.
You're acting like you have to make one corruptor per phoenix. You don't. And you use the corruptors with your attack, hence you're not haing a bunch of corruptors floating around, you have canceled out their air with your air and mass roach takes care of the rest of that. You don't herp derp trying to fly your corruptors around solely to try and stop the phoenixes from harassing.
On August 03 2011 11:18 NOobToss wrote: DTs were the icing on the cake. losing your nat + DTs snacking on your production facilities. DAYMNUH.
The DTs did like nothing. He scanned as soon as they got up the ramp. They probably got 3 kills. The icing on the cake was the bunker salvage as soon as Kiwi decides to push.
On August 03 2011 11:19 Kfish wrote: I hope that changes with PuMa and their new training house!
Puma is unlikely to even play in events like these, he's only going to get flown into major events and paraded around in an EG shirt, but otherwise he'll be in Korea doing his own thing.
It was the same with Idra when he was in Korea for the most part.
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
- Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix
- Corruptors are awful against anything
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine.
Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had.
Corrupters are awful against everything? What game do you play. They are amazing vs Phoenix/Carriers (in small numbers)/Vikings/Battlecruisers.
This reminds me of an earlier SOTG where Painuser was saying how good Zealots were and Inc/Tyler argued against him saying they're worthless. Lo and behold, Chargelots are like the central unit of the PvT metagame right now. People need to try these things before saying they're worthless.
He meant corrupters are awful against everything else in the PvZ matchup. No one uses carriers and as soon as the phoenixes die, you realize you have 40 food sitting around in the air while you get raped by archon/zealot.
You realise that you have killed 40 food of his army though? and that 40 food can turn into Broodlords which hard counter Zealot/Archon.
Except because of the huge amount of Corruptors you have to make, you can't hold his ground force with whatever ground force you have. You think he's gonna sit there and wait for you to get hive tech and greater spire and morph into broods just because you killed his phoenixes?
Rofl.
You're acting like you have to make one corruptor per phoenix. You don't.
You act like when the actual battle happens, the corruptors can get anywhere near the phoenix without being 5-shot by the 10 archons.
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
- Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix
- Corruptors are awful against anything
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine.
Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had.
Corrupters are awful against everything? What game do you play. They are amazing vs Phoenix/Carriers (in small numbers)/Vikings/Battlecruisers.
This reminds me of an earlier SOTG where Painuser was saying how good Zealots were and Inc/Tyler argued against him saying they're worthless. Lo and behold, Chargelots are like the central unit of the PvT metagame right now. People need to try these things before saying they're worthless.
He meant corrupters are awful against everything else in the PvZ matchup. No one uses carriers and as soon as the phoenixes die, you realize you have 40 food sitting around in the air while you get raped by archon/zealot.
You realise that you have killed 40 food of his army though? and that 40 food can turn into Broodlords which hard counter Zealot/Archon.
Uh you wouldn't kill his pheonix ball, there's no way you're catching up to pheonix with corrupters. You would simply protect a small area from pheonix harassment. Meanwhile his much faster pheonix would still roam around the map tearing shit up.
Brood Lords? Strifecro didn't have a hive or greater spire yet. Brood lords are ridiculously expensive. Any protoss player who sees corrupters from the zerg would instantly march his ground army into Strifecro's base and there would be nothing he could do. It's not like brood lords magically appear when you want them to.
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
- Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix
- Corruptors are awful against anything
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine.
Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had.
Corrupters are awful against everything? What game do you play. They are amazing vs Phoenix/Carriers (in small numbers)/Vikings/Battlecruisers.
This reminds me of an earlier SOTG where Painuser was saying how good Zealots were and Inc/Tyler argued against him saying they're worthless. Lo and behold, Chargelots are like the central unit of the PvT metagame right now. People need to try these things before saying they're worthless.
He meant corrupters are awful against everything else in the PvZ matchup. No one uses carriers and as soon as the phoenixes die, you realize you have 40 food sitting around in the air while you get raped by archon/zealot.
You realise that you have killed 40 food of his army though? and that 40 food can turn into Broodlords which hard counter Zealot/Archon.
Except because of the huge amount of Corruptors you have to make, you can't hold his ground force with whatever ground force you have. You think he's gonna sit there and wait for you to get hive tech and greater spire and morph into broods just because you killed his phoenixes?
Rofl.
You're acting like you have to make one corruptor per phoenix. You don't.
You act like when the actual battle happens, the corruptors can get anywhere near the phoenix without being 5-shot by the 10 archons.
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
- Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix
- Corruptors are awful against anything
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine.
Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had.
Corrupters are awful against everything? What game do you play. They are amazing vs Phoenix/Carriers (in small numbers)/Vikings/Battlecruisers.
This reminds me of an earlier SOTG where Painuser was saying how good Zealots were and Inc/Tyler argued against him saying they're worthless. Lo and behold, Chargelots are like the central unit of the PvT metagame right now. People need to try these things before saying they're worthless.
He meant corrupters are awful against everything else in the PvZ matchup. No one uses carriers and as soon as the phoenixes die, you realize you have 40 food sitting around in the air while you get raped by archon/zealot.
You realise that you have killed 40 food of his army though? and that 40 food can turn into Broodlords which hard counter Zealot/Archon.
Except because of the huge amount of Corruptors you have to make, you can't hold his ground force with whatever ground force you have. You think he's gonna sit there and wait for you to get hive tech and greater spire and morph into broods just because you killed his phoenixes?
Rofl.
You're acting like you have to make one corruptor per phoenix. You don't. And you use the corruptors with your attack, hence you're not haing a bunch of corruptors floating around, you have canceled out their air with your air and mass roach takes care of the rest of that. You don't herp derp trying to fly your corruptors around solely to try and stop the phoenixes from harassing.
Yeah this is so ridiculous. What in the world would you need 40 food of Corruptors for? 80 Phoenix? At that point you should win anyway because the entire Protoss army comprising of nothing but Phoenix is now nullified...
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
- Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix
- Corruptors are awful against anything
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine.
Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had.
Corrupters are awful against everything? What game do you play. They are amazing vs Phoenix/Carriers (in small numbers)/Vikings/Battlecruisers.
This reminds me of an earlier SOTG where Painuser was saying how good Zealots were and Inc/Tyler argued against him saying they're worthless. Lo and behold, Chargelots are like the central unit of the PvT metagame right now. People need to try these things before saying they're worthless.
He meant corrupters are awful against everything else in the PvZ matchup. No one uses carriers and as soon as the phoenixes die, you realize you have 40 food sitting around in the air while you get raped by archon/zealot.
You realise that you have killed 40 food of his army though? and that 40 food can turn into Broodlords which hard counter Zealot/Archon.
Except because of the huge amount of Corruptors you have to make, you can't hold his ground force with whatever ground force you have. You think he's gonna sit there and wait for you to get hive tech and greater spire and morph into broods just because you killed his phoenixes?
Rofl.
You're acting like you have to make one corruptor per phoenix. You don't.
You act like when the actual battle happens, the corruptors can get anywhere near the phoenix without being 5-shot by the 10 archons.
Spread your corruptors? Keep them behind your other units so they won't be underneath archons? He had 10 archons at the end when he had already easily defended the attacks, the game was over way before then. Before that he had maybe 3-4 archons, and he wasn't even keeping his upgrades up.
On August 03 2011 11:17 mTw|NarutO wrote: Ofcourse you can stop it with a bio army. You need to EMP the sentries so they can only use 1 guardian shield. Also put your scvs on hold position or have buildings to block. Marine Marauder + Medivacs with EMP and equal upgrades absolutely shred a no area of effect Protoss army.
put the scv on hold too (or better have supply depots as a wall so the zealots waste their charge on it
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
- Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix
- Corruptors are awful against anything
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine.
Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had.
Corrupters are awful against everything? What game do you play. They are amazing vs Phoenix/Carriers (in small numbers)/Vikings/Battlecruisers.
This reminds me of an earlier SOTG where Painuser was saying how good Zealots were and Inc/Tyler argued against him saying they're worthless. Lo and behold, Chargelots are like the central unit of the PvT metagame right now. People need to try these things before saying they're worthless.
He meant corrupters are awful against everything else in the PvZ matchup. No one uses carriers and as soon as the phoenixes die, you realize you have 40 food sitting around in the air while you get raped by archon/zealot.
You realise that you have killed 40 food of his army though? and that 40 food can turn into Broodlords which hard counter Zealot/Archon.
Except because of the huge amount of Corruptors you have to make, you can't hold his ground force with whatever ground force you have. You think he's gonna sit there and wait for you to get hive tech and greater spire and morph into broods just because you killed his phoenixes?
Rofl.
You're acting like you have to make one corruptor per phoenix. You don't.
You act like when the actual battle happens, the corruptors can get anywhere near the phoenix without being 5-shot by the 10 archons.
You act like a whiny zerg
I say facts. If you see it as whine, then you are predisposed to thinking truth about zerg is whining.
Corruptors do belong in an army against counter archon phoenix zealot.
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
- Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix
- Corruptors are awful against anything
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine.
Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had.
Corrupters are awful against everything? What game do you play. They are amazing vs Phoenix/Carriers (in small numbers)/Vikings/Battlecruisers.
This reminds me of an earlier SOTG where Painuser was saying how good Zealots were and Inc/Tyler argued against him saying they're worthless. Lo and behold, Chargelots are like the central unit of the PvT metagame right now. People need to try these things before saying they're worthless.
He meant corrupters are awful against everything else in the PvZ matchup. No one uses carriers and as soon as the phoenixes die, you realize you have 40 food sitting around in the air while you get raped by archon/zealot.
You realise that you have killed 40 food of his army though? and that 40 food can turn into Broodlords which hard counter Zealot/Archon.
Except because of the huge amount of Corruptors you have to make, you can't hold his ground force with whatever ground force you have. You think he's gonna sit there and wait for you to get hive tech and greater spire and morph into broods just because you killed his phoenixes?
Rofl.
He could have thrown 10 corruptors into his mix instead of just pure maxing hydra and those battles would have been a lot closer and he would have thinned the pheonix numbers. Protoss isn't zerg, they take a much bigger hit if they lose a crucial part of their army. If you followed the game, Strifecro had a huge economic lead until he lost 3 massive engagements in a row that weren't even close and then he couldn't remax a 3rd time. So either right now you're saying going mass hydra like he did was a good idea, or there is literally nothing zerg can do against mass pheonix. Roach Infestor or Roach corruptor into Broodlords would have dealt with it decently.
On August 03 2011 11:17 Liudo wrote: Lol ... first few pages "EG is going to take this so easy" "incomming IdrA all kill" "Reign has no chance"
IdrA plays badly Axslav plays badly Machine plays badly Strifeco plays badly DeMuslim plays ok and loses anyway
Reign takes it easily
Strife didn't play badly. And how is massing marines off two bases playing "ok" compared to the others who played "badly"?
Edit: two bases
Ok one game from Strife was ok but it was on a heavily zerg favoured map so...
Bel'Shir is literally the only map in the standard pool where what StrifeCro did in that game would ever work.
Future lost that game when he decided to expand instead of all-inning off of 2 base. Well, maybe not lost, but he pretty much needed to play perfectly from that point on or StrifeCro needed to screw up or keep his units in a ball (which he obviously didn't).
The map was Strifecro's pick, so obviously he knew exactly what he was going for from the beginning and execute it decently enough.
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
- Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix
- Corruptors are awful against anything
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine.
Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had.
Corrupters are awful against everything? What game do you play. They are amazing vs Phoenix/Carriers (in small numbers)/Vikings/Battlecruisers.
This reminds me of an earlier SOTG where Painuser was saying how good Zealots were and Inc/Tyler argued against him saying they're worthless. Lo and behold, Chargelots are like the central unit of the PvT metagame right now. People need to try these things before saying they're worthless.
He meant corrupters are awful against everything else in the PvZ matchup. No one uses carriers and as soon as the phoenixes die, you realize you have 40 food sitting around in the air while you get raped by archon/zealot.
You realise that you have killed 40 food of his army though? and that 40 food can turn into Broodlords which hard counter Zealot/Archon.
Except because of the huge amount of Corruptors you have to make, you can't hold his ground force with whatever ground force you have. You think he's gonna sit there and wait for you to get hive tech and greater spire and morph into broods just because you killed his phoenixes?
Rofl.
slush has beaten kiwi at MLG 2-0
he went quick 3rd 70 drones -> Roach/corruptors and ran over kiwi
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine.
Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had.
Corrupters are awful against everything? What game do you play. They are amazing vs Phoenix/Carriers (in small numbers)/Vikings/Battlecruisers.
This reminds me of an earlier SOTG where Painuser was saying how good Zealots were and Inc/Tyler argued against him saying they're worthless. Lo and behold, Chargelots are like the central unit of the PvT metagame right now. People need to try these things before saying they're worthless.
He meant corrupters are awful against everything else in the PvZ matchup. No one uses carriers and as soon as the phoenixes die, you realize you have 40 food sitting around in the air while you get raped by archon/zealot.
You realise that you have killed 40 food of his army though? and that 40 food can turn into Broodlords which hard counter Zealot/Archon.
Except because of the huge amount of Corruptors you have to make, you can't hold his ground force with whatever ground force you have. You think he's gonna sit there and wait for you to get hive tech and greater spire and morph into broods just because you killed his phoenixes?
Rofl.
You're acting like you have to make one corruptor per phoenix. You don't.
You act like when the actual battle happens, the corruptors can get anywhere near the phoenix without being 5-shot by the 10 archons.
You act like a whiny zerg
I say facts. If you see it as whine, then you are predisposed to thinking truth about zerg is whining.
Corruptors do belong in an army against counter archon phoenix zealot.
You realise there were 2 massive engagements where Strifecro got smoked before kiwi had even had added archons to the mix. It was basically just chargelot / pheonix / stalker until the major engagement that lost Strifecro the game.
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
- Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix
- Corruptors are awful against anything
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine.
Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had.
Corrupters are awful against everything? What game do you play. They are amazing vs Phoenix/Carriers (in small numbers)/Vikings/Battlecruisers.
This reminds me of an earlier SOTG where Painuser was saying how good Zealots were and Inc/Tyler argued against him saying they're worthless. Lo and behold, Chargelots are like the central unit of the PvT metagame right now. People need to try these things before saying they're worthless.
He meant corrupters are awful against everything else in the PvZ matchup. No one uses carriers and as soon as the phoenixes die, you realize you have 40 food sitting around in the air while you get raped by archon/zealot.
You realise that you have killed 40 food of his army though? and that 40 food can turn into Broodlords which hard counter Zealot/Archon.
Except because of the huge amount of Corruptors you have to make, you can't hold his ground force with whatever ground force you have. You think he's gonna sit there and wait for you to get hive tech and greater spire and morph into broods just because you killed his phoenixes?
Rofl.
slush has beaten kiwi at MLG 2-0
he went quick 3rd 70 drones -> Roach/corruptors and ran over kiwi
Fayth, can you share with us how many hours Kiwi practices or do you not feel comfortable saying?
It seems pretty insane that he can play as one of the best NA players and do well at an MLG after spending so much time at the WSOP. How insane would he be if he played as much as the Koreans?
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
- Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix
- Corruptors are awful against anything
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine.
Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had.
Corrupters are awful against everything? What game do you play. They are amazing vs Phoenix/Carriers (in small numbers)/Vikings/Battlecruisers.
This reminds me of an earlier SOTG where Painuser was saying how good Zealots were and Inc/Tyler argued against him saying they're worthless. Lo and behold, Chargelots are like the central unit of the PvT metagame right now. People need to try these things before saying they're worthless.
He meant corrupters are awful against everything else in the PvZ matchup. No one uses carriers and as soon as the phoenixes die, you realize you have 40 food sitting around in the air while you get raped by archon/zealot.
You realise that you have killed 40 food of his army though? and that 40 food can turn into Broodlords which hard counter Zealot/Archon.
Except because of the huge amount of Corruptors you have to make, you can't hold his ground force with whatever ground force you have. You think he's gonna sit there and wait for you to get hive tech and greater spire and morph into broods just because you killed his phoenixes?
Rofl.
You're acting like you have to make one corruptor per phoenix. You don't.
You act like when the actual battle happens, the corruptors can get anywhere near the phoenix without being 5-shot by the 10 archons.
You have NO IDEA what you are talking about. Go and watch the ICCUP weekly vods of Sage vs Zergs, he did this exact same unit build and the Zerg beat it with Infestor/Roach/Ling/Corruptor. Absolutely steamrolled him.
Even without watching that game what you say is profoundly stupid. What are the Phoenix going to do, Stay within archon range the entire fight where they can lift maybe 1-2 units?
On August 03 2011 11:16 Dexington wrote: Methinks EG needs to rethink its roster.
EG needs to cut lz, strifecro and axslav (possibly machine too) like right now and up get a decent protoss.
That being said that was an awful set of games.
Axslav is underrated imo. He's one of their better players right behind idra and demuslim.
Let's be honest, axslav just isn't gonna get far with his 100apm cap he likes to have.
How can we say he (or anyone from EG) is underrated when none of the EG players have come close to even placing well from open at an MLG recently. Yes it is hard to do well from open, but Cruncher has done it twice now, and Tyler did it on his first time in open. Frankly, EG is just vastly overrated and luckily have seedings to fall back on for Incontrol, otherwise his story would be the same. Idra and Demuslim are the only 2 talented players, and Demuslim seems like the only one who is actually motivated to become good and beat top level players.
I'm glad that protoss is rediscovering how their race works. 6 gate used to be an all in move but creative protosses like Kiwi have basically thrown that book out the window and basically said "screw the rules" and managed to create innovative and excellent new strats.
Now, time to see what MC has cooking up his sleeve.
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
- Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix
- Corruptors are awful against anything
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine.
Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had.
Corrupters are awful against everything? What game do you play. They are amazing vs Phoenix/Carriers (in small numbers)/Vikings/Battlecruisers.
This reminds me of an earlier SOTG where Painuser was saying how good Zealots were and Inc/Tyler argued against him saying they're worthless. Lo and behold, Chargelots are like the central unit of the PvT metagame right now. People need to try these things before saying they're worthless.
He meant corrupters are awful against everything else in the PvZ matchup. No one uses carriers and as soon as the phoenixes die, you realize you have 40 food sitting around in the air while you get raped by archon/zealot.
You realise that you have killed 40 food of his army though? and that 40 food can turn into Broodlords which hard counter Zealot/Archon.
Except because of the huge amount of Corruptors you have to make, you can't hold his ground force with whatever ground force you have. You think he's gonna sit there and wait for you to get hive tech and greater spire and morph into broods just because you killed his phoenixes?
Rofl.
slush has beaten kiwi at MLG 2-0
he went quick 3rd 70 drones -> Roach/corruptors and ran over kiwi
Fayth, can you share with us how many hours Kiwi practices or do you not feel comfortable saying?
It seems pretty insane that he can play as one of the best NA players and do well at an MLG after spending so much time at the WSOP. How insane would he be if he played as much as the Koreans?
I think he plays on average 25 games/day, and most of it he plays it on europe, also it's really nothing special he was only in vegas for 2 weeks
EG does hugely well on publicity. Their publicity >> their playing.
However, they do have PumA now... so we shall see what that brings them. Otherwise they have IdrA (who has been in decline) and DeMuslim (although there will always be question marks next to his name until he gets some results).
The rest of the line-up of EG is in my opinion just not very good.
On August 03 2011 11:16 Dexington wrote: Methinks EG needs to rethink its roster.
EG needs to cut lz, strifecro and axslav (possibly machine too) like right now and up get a decent protoss.
That being said that was an awful set of games.
Axslav is underrated imo. He's one of their better players right behind idra and demuslim.
Let's be honest, axslav just isn't gonna get far with his 100apm cap he likes to have.
How can we say he (or anyone from EG) is underrated when none of the EG players have come close to even placing well from open at an MLG recently. Yes it is hard to do well from open, but Cruncher has done it twice now, and Tyler did it on his first time in open. Frankly, EG is just vastly overrated and luckily have seedings to fall back on for Incontrol, otherwise his story would be the same. Idra and Demuslim are the only 2 talented players, and Demuslim seems like the only one who is actually motivated to become good and beat top level players.
I don't think EG was ever overrated....everyone knows lz is trash now, axslav is mediocre and strifecro is just not good.
It's basically always been team idra until demuslim and puma joined.
On August 03 2011 11:16 Dexington wrote: Methinks EG needs to rethink its roster.
EG needs to cut lz, strifecro and axslav (possibly machine too) like right now and up get a decent protoss.
That being said that was an awful set of games.
Axslav is underrated imo. He's one of their better players right behind puma, idra and demuslim.
axslav is better than people think. his weakness are his low multitasking skills/APM. but give him time and he can be on Kiwi's level.
Eh, when you say that someone's weaknesses are low multitasking and apm, you've pretty much described a mediocre player who very likely won't ever go beyond semi-pro skill level.
It's like saying that he's a great player, but his weaknesses are everything that matters the most and is hardest to improve.
That's why a player like ViBE, even though he's not very good right now, is likely to overcome most NA pros just because he's physically capable of effective fast play and multitasking.
I think part of why I quit is the ridiculous expectations from players who are terrible at the game
saying axslav is mediocre and strifecro is just not good and lz is trash
i mean jesus christ give them a break
from that point of view we could just say every foreigner right now is absolute trash at this game and they shouldn't bother playing this game since koreans are winning everything
Are people seriosuly using StrifeCro as a guide for seeing is something is overpowered vs Zerg? Lets see someone try this vs Nestea and see how far is gets them.
On August 03 2011 11:28 ReignFayth wrote: Sjow also has a really low apm and does wonder with it, and he even plays terran which probably takes a higher apm overall
Sjow's results has plumetted pretty hard the last few months or so since people really got a great understanding of the game. I don't think slow APM like that is sustainable long term as pro's get better and better. Versus Korean multitasking (like his games vs July) Sjow's lack of mutitasking is extremely apparent with him regularly having idle units next to multi pronged attacks but lacking the speed to properly react.
On August 03 2011 11:05 integrity wrote: i think it is funny that mass phoenix beats mass hydra.
hydra are so bad even against the units they are suppose to counter
I don't think Hydra are meant to counter a unit that does extra damage vs light. You would have to be kind of dense to think that. In mass numbers you need something that is armored and hits air or else AoE.
- Mutas are awful against archons / pheonix
- Corruptors are awful against anything
So what do you do ? Mass fungal ? just snipe infestors and you're fine.
Corruptors are awful against everything bu phoenix, and the point is how to counter phoenixes. Corruptors also allow guardians which rape the ground army that kiwi had.
Corrupters are awful against everything? What game do you play. They are amazing vs Phoenix/Carriers (in small numbers)/Vikings/Battlecruisers.
This reminds me of an earlier SOTG where Painuser was saying how good Zealots were and Inc/Tyler argued against him saying they're worthless. Lo and behold, Chargelots are like the central unit of the PvT metagame right now. People need to try these things before saying they're worthless.
He meant corrupters are awful against everything else in the PvZ matchup. No one uses carriers and as soon as the phoenixes die, you realize you have 40 food sitting around in the air while you get raped by archon/zealot.
You realise that you have killed 40 food of his army though? and that 40 food can turn into Broodlords which hard counter Zealot/Archon.
Except because of the huge amount of Corruptors you have to make, you can't hold his ground force with whatever ground force you have. You think he's gonna sit there and wait for you to get hive tech and greater spire and morph into broods just because you killed his phoenixes?
Rofl.
You're acting like you have to make one corruptor per phoenix. You don't.
You act like when the actual battle happens, the corruptors can get anywhere near the phoenix without being 5-shot by the 10 archons.
The phoenixes don't do anything if they aren't going through you to lift your infestors, your corrupters will murder them if they actually try to participate in the fight.
Phoenixes also have the 'critical mass' effect where he had so many that he could pick up a lot of units and still have many to actually kill what he lifted. If he had a few corrupters earlier to pick at the phoenix numbers he can't ever mass lift like that because he then has none left to actually fire and too few stalkers/archons to be the damage dealers.
You can't analyze the problem at the very end of the game when there were 10 archons walking through his base unhindered, obviously you're fucked because you let it get to that point.
On August 03 2011 11:38 ReignFayth wrote: I think part of why I quit is the ridiculous expectations from players who are terrible at the game
saying axslav is mediocre and strifecro is just not good and lz is trash
i mean jesus christ give them a break
from that point of view we could just say every foreigner right now is absolute trash at this game and they shouldn't bother playing this game since koreans are winning everything
So when you watch sports you don't point out who the stronger/weaker players are and when guys make mistakes?
On August 03 2011 11:16 Dexington wrote: Methinks EG needs to rethink its roster.
EG needs to cut lz, strifecro and axslav (possibly machine too) like right now and up get a decent protoss.
That being said that was an awful set of games.
Axslav is almost certainly a better protoss than incontrol. However I don't think they should drop either protoss since Machine, Strifeco and lz are really failing whereas incontrol/axslav can play good games on occasion at least.
On August 03 2011 11:38 ReignFayth wrote: I think part of why I quit is the ridiculous expectations from players who are terrible at the game
saying axslav is mediocre and strifecro is just not good and lz is trash
i mean jesus christ give them a break
from that point of view we could just say every foreigner right now is absolute trash at this game and they shouldn't bother playing this game since koreans are winning everything
Dude I hear what you are saying but it's the same everywhere: people are always going to have high expectations in sports or esports. It wouldn't be the same without that competitive edge.
And really, it's not unrealistic to compare some EG pros with just some random EU pros to see a skill-gap, so there is no need to reference Koreans.
Just for the record, Fungals have been the bane of phoenix play since early release. Land one fungal on the ball and its done. It was bad enough that I stopped playing with phoenixes for a while when my friends would just go infestor against it.
On August 03 2011 11:16 Dexington wrote: Methinks EG needs to rethink its roster.
EG needs to cut lz, strifecro and axslav (possibly machine too) like right now and up get a decent protoss.
That being said that was an awful set of games.
Axslav is almost certainly a better protoss than incontrol. However I don't think they should drop either protoss since Machine, Strifeco and lz are really failing whereas incontrol/axslav can play good games on occasion at least.
Whether Axslav is better or not Incontrol has much better results, including that 4th at MLG Dallas.
On August 03 2011 11:42 meadbert wrote: I actually think Axslav is good. He or Cruncher is probably the best American Protoss player.
I would say Minigun or Cruncher right now :/
Too bad Minigun has a fear of planes (so I've heard) and will never make it to a MLG
It has to be Cruncher or Incontrol as those are the guys were the big tournament results. Cruncher make it into Pool Play at MLG Anaheim and had a good run at Columbus plus did okay in TSL. Incontrol got 4th at MLG Dallas.
Axslav and Minigun don't really have tournament results.
It's probably Cruncher. Incontrol is just riding on his pre-Korean MLG run that he Artosis'd his way in in the first place. And placing Pylons in TLO's base. -_-
Though to be honest, Nony can still just raise an eyebrow and be better than any of them (as seen from his open bracket run).
On August 03 2011 11:38 ReignFayth wrote: I think part of why I quit is the ridiculous expectations from players who are terrible at the game
saying axslav is mediocre and strifecro is just not good and lz is trash
i mean jesus christ give them a break
from that point of view we could just say every foreigner right now is absolute trash at this game and they shouldn't bother playing this game since koreans are winning everything
I think some of the foreigners bring it on themselves with their laziness. Doctors, lawyers, average joes, everyone in the world works hard usually over 8 hours a day. In undeveloped countries its around 14 hours a day and tougher work.
Then you have guys like Idra who say they only practice 3 hours a day. Incontrol admitting he plays less than 4 hours a day and bad practice. How are people supposed to take it?
Guys like Kas and Sase are beloved and they both bombed out of Dreamhack but the community recognizes that they work hard and are professional.
tl;dr People that call themselves competitors and see the Koreans working 12 hours a day and they don't want to put in more than 3 hours are going to get criticized.
I mean seriously, I don't think that people actually think the Koreans are genetically superior. It's all practice. Even Daigo lost at Evo in Marvel because he only just started playing it.
On August 03 2011 11:42 meadbert wrote: I actually think Axslav is good. He or Cruncher is probably the best American Protoss player.
I would say Minigun or Cruncher right now :/
Too bad Minigun has a fear of planes (so I've heard) and will never make it to a MLG
It has to be Cruncher or Incontrol as those are the guys were the big tournament results. Cruncher make it into Pool Play at MLG Anaheim and had a good run at Columbus plus did okay in TSL. Incontrol got 4th at MLG Dallas.
Axslav and Minigun don't really have tournament results.
Minigun doesn't have tournament results cuz he doesn't show up, that doesn't mean he's worse than incontrol or cruncher.....
I'd pick minigun over cruncher and incontrol if I had to bet money on games
On August 03 2011 11:38 ReignFayth wrote: I think part of why I quit is the ridiculous expectations from players who are terrible at the game
saying axslav is mediocre and strifecro is just not good and lz is trash
i mean jesus christ give them a break
from that point of view we could just say every foreigner right now is absolute trash at this game and they shouldn't bother playing this game since koreans are winning everything
I think some of the foreigners bring it on themselves with their laziness. Doctors, lawyers, average joes, everyone in the world works hard usually over 8 hours a day. In undeveloped countries its around 14 hours a day and tougher work.
Then you have guys like Idra who say they only practice 3 hours a day. Incontrol admitting he plays less than 4 hours a day and bad practice. How are people supposed to take it?
Guys like Kas and Sase are beloved and they both bombed out of Dreamhack but the community recognizes that they work hard and are professional.
tl;dr People that call themselves competitors and see the Koreans working 12 hours a day and they don't want to put in more than 3 hours are going to get criticized.
I mean seriously, I don't think that people actually think the Koreans are genetically superior. It's all practice. Even Daigo lost at Evo in Marvel because he only just started playing it.
I think that's the most important thing coming out of EG getting a house - they are actually treating SC2 as a career with mandatory hours of work put in. I imagine EG will be expecting much stronger results going forward.
On August 03 2011 11:42 meadbert wrote: I actually think Axslav is good. He or Cruncher is probably the best American Protoss player.
I would say Minigun or Cruncher right now :/
Too bad Minigun has a fear of planes (so I've heard) and will never make it to a MLG
It has to be Cruncher or Incontrol as those are the guys were the big tournament results. Cruncher make it into Pool Play at MLG Anaheim and had a good run at Columbus plus did okay in TSL. Incontrol got 4th at MLG Dallas.
Axslav and Minigun don't really have tournament results.
Minigun doesn't have tournament results cuz he doesn't show up, that doesn't mean he's worse than incontrol or cruncher.....
I'd pick minigun over cruncher and incontrol if I had to bet money on games
I'd put money on Kiwi or Mini as well. Kiwi, if allowed to prepare, is the sort of player who can snipe like no one else. He's really creative. I'm still blown away by the immortal drop he used against Idra a few MLG's back.
Mini is just a solid consistent player. He's not the flashiest but he's always seemed really consistent to me.
On August 03 2011 11:38 ReignFayth wrote: I think part of why I quit is the ridiculous expectations from players who are terrible at the game
saying axslav is mediocre and strifecro is just not good and lz is trash
i mean jesus christ give them a break
from that point of view we could just say every foreigner right now is absolute trash at this game and they shouldn't bother playing this game since koreans are winning everything
I think some of the foreigners bring it on themselves with their laziness. Doctors, lawyers, average joes, everyone in the world works hard usually over 8 hours a day. In undeveloped countries its around 14 hours a day and tougher work.
Then you have guys like Idra who say they only practice 3 hours a day. Incontrol admitting he plays less than 4 hours a day and bad practice. How are people supposed to take it?
Guys like Kas and Sase are beloved and they both bombed out of Dreamhack but the community recognizes that they work hard and are professional.
tl;dr People that call themselves competitors and see the Koreans working 12 hours a day and they don't want to put in more than 3 hours are going to get criticized.
I mean seriously, I don't think that people actually think the Koreans are genetically superior. It's all practice. Even Daigo lost at Evo in Marvel because he only just started playing it.
I think that's the most important thing coming out of EG getting a house - they are actually treating SC2 as a career with mandatory hours of work put in. I imagine EG will be expecting much stronger results going forward.
Well who knows what kind of training regime they will really use. But I agree it will be very interesting to see if this has an effect on their results going forward. I suppose Raleigh MLG and NASL season 2 will be some opportunities to follow that.
On August 03 2011 11:42 meadbert wrote: I actually think Axslav is good. He or Cruncher is probably the best American Protoss player.
I would say Minigun or Cruncher right now :/
Too bad Minigun has a fear of planes (so I've heard) and will never make it to a MLG
It has to be Cruncher or Incontrol as those are the guys were the big tournament results. Cruncher make it into Pool Play at MLG Anaheim and had a good run at Columbus plus did okay in TSL. Incontrol got 4th at MLG Dallas.
Axslav and Minigun don't really have tournament results.
Minigun doesn't have tournament results cuz he doesn't show up, that doesn't mean he's worse than incontrol or cruncher.....
I'd pick minigun over cruncher and incontrol if I had to bet money on games
I'd put money on Kiwi or Mini as well. Kiwi, if allowed to prepare, is the sort of player who can snipe like no one else. He's really creative. I'm still blown away by the immortal drop he used against Idra a few MLG's back.
Mini is just a solid consistent player. He's not the flashiest but he's always seemed really consistent to me.
yeah but we were talking about americans, kiwi is canadian
I'd say Kiwikaki still holds the throne as top American Protoss. And please, iNcontroL should not belong in the debate at all... yeah he placed 4th at MLG, but as everyone as pointed out he got extremely lucky (beat Mihai, Slush, and TLO twice thanks to extended series), but besides that he has literally ZERO results and a 39% winrate...
On August 03 2011 11:38 ReignFayth wrote: I think part of why I quit is the ridiculous expectations from players who are terrible at the game
saying axslav is mediocre and strifecro is just not good and lz is trash
i mean jesus christ give them a break
from that point of view we could just say every foreigner right now is absolute trash at this game and they shouldn't bother playing this game since koreans are winning everything
I think some of the foreigners bring it on themselves with their laziness. Doctors, lawyers, average joes, everyone in the world works hard usually over 8 hours a day. In undeveloped countries its around 14 hours a day and tougher work.
Then you have guys like Idra who say they only practice 3 hours a day. Incontrol admitting he plays less than 4 hours a day and bad practice. How are people supposed to take it?
Guys like Kas and Sase are beloved and they both bombed out of Dreamhack but the community recognizes that they work hard and are professional.
tl;dr People that call themselves competitors and see the Koreans working 12 hours a day and they don't want to put in more than 3 hours are going to get criticized.
I mean seriously, I don't think that people actually think the Koreans are genetically superior. It's all practice. Even Daigo lost at Evo in Marvel because he only just started playing it.
I think that's the most important thing coming out of EG getting a house - they are actually treating SC2 as a career with mandatory hours of work put in. I imagine EG will be expecting much stronger results going forward.
Well who knows what kind of training regime they will really use. But I agree it will be very interesting to see if this has an effect on their results going forward. I suppose Raleigh MLG and NASL season 2 will be some opportunities to follow that.
All of us? 8 hours a day of pure practice+discussion and whatever else. They've actually said their plans repeatedly.
On August 03 2011 11:58 ChrysaliS_ wrote: I'd say Kiwikaki still holds the throne as top American Protoss. And please, iNcontroL should not belong in the debate at all... yeah he placed 4th at MLG, but as everyone as pointed out he got extremely lucky (beat Mihai, Slush, and TLO twice thanks to extended series), but besides that he has literally ZERO results and a 39% winrate...
And we will still be treated to iNcontrol being seeded into pool play at the next MLG...
On August 03 2011 11:58 ChrysaliS_ wrote: I'd say Kiwikaki still holds the throne as top American Protoss. And please, iNcontroL should not belong in the debate at all... yeah he placed 4th at MLG, but as everyone as pointed out he got extremely lucky (beat Mihai, Slush, and TLO twice thanks to extended series), but besides that he has literally ZERO results and a 39% winrate...
Kiwi isn't American though.
Actually if we're nitpicky about it, there's only one reasonable choice for top American Protoss. He's in Code S and all that.
On August 03 2011 11:38 ReignFayth wrote: I think part of why I quit is the ridiculous expectations from players who are terrible at the game
saying axslav is mediocre and strifecro is just not good and lz is trash
i mean jesus christ give them a break
from that point of view we could just say every foreigner right now is absolute trash at this game and they shouldn't bother playing this game since koreans are winning everything
I think some of the foreigners bring it on themselves with their laziness. Doctors, lawyers, average joes, everyone in the world works hard usually over 8 hours a day. In undeveloped countries its around 14 hours a day and tougher work.
Then you have guys like Idra who say they only practice 3 hours a day. Incontrol admitting he plays less than 4 hours a day and bad practice. How are people supposed to take it?
Guys like Kas and Sase are beloved and they both bombed out of Dreamhack but the community recognizes that they work hard and are professional.
tl;dr People that call themselves competitors and see the Koreans working 12 hours a day and they don't want to put in more than 3 hours are going to get criticized.
I mean seriously, I don't think that people actually think the Koreans are genetically superior. It's all practice. Even Daigo lost at Evo in Marvel because he only just started playing it.
I think that's the most important thing coming out of EG getting a house - they are actually treating SC2 as a career with mandatory hours of work put in. I imagine EG will be expecting much stronger results going forward.
Well who knows what kind of training regime they will really use. But I agree it will be very interesting to see if this has an effect on their results going forward. I suppose Raleigh MLG and NASL season 2 will be some opportunities to follow that.
All of us? 8 hours a day of pure practice+discussion and whatever else. They've actually said their plans repeatedly.
Intentions =/ plans =/ practice. Many people plan to do things. No one can know what they will do and how it will work out. The only useful barometer will be results.
On August 03 2011 11:38 ReignFayth wrote: I think part of why I quit is the ridiculous expectations from players who are terrible at the game
saying axslav is mediocre and strifecro is just not good and lz is trash
i mean jesus christ give them a break
from that point of view we could just say every foreigner right now is absolute trash at this game and they shouldn't bother playing this game since koreans are winning everything
I think some of the foreigners bring it on themselves with their laziness. Doctors, lawyers, average joes, everyone in the world works hard usually over 8 hours a day. In undeveloped countries its around 14 hours a day and tougher work.
Then you have guys like Idra who say they only practice 3 hours a day. Incontrol admitting he plays less than 4 hours a day and bad practice. How are people supposed to take it?
Guys like Kas and Sase are beloved and they both bombed out of Dreamhack but the community recognizes that they work hard and are professional.
tl;dr People that call themselves competitors and see the Koreans working 12 hours a day and they don't want to put in more than 3 hours are going to get criticized.
I mean seriously, I don't think that people actually think the Koreans are genetically superior. It's all practice. Even Daigo lost at Evo in Marvel because he only just started playing it.
I think that's the most important thing coming out of EG getting a house - they are actually treating SC2 as a career with mandatory hours of work put in. I imagine EG will be expecting much stronger results going forward.
Well who knows what kind of training regime they will really use. But I agree it will be very interesting to see if this has an effect on their results going forward. I suppose Raleigh MLG and NASL season 2 will be some opportunities to follow that.
All of us? 8 hours a day of pure practice+discussion and whatever else. They've actually said their plans repeatedly.
8 hours of no bs no stream just pure focused practice? i hope so,, they can stream and have fun outside of those 8 hours,, if they do this,, they can get better,
On August 03 2011 11:58 ChrysaliS_ wrote: I'd say Kiwikaki still holds the throne as top American Protoss. And please, iNcontroL should not belong in the debate at all... yeah he placed 4th at MLG, but as everyone as pointed out he got extremely lucky (beat Mihai, Slush, and TLO twice thanks to extended series), but besides that he has literally ZERO results and a 39% winrate...
Kiwi isn't American though.
Actually if we're nitpicky about it, there's only one reasonable choice for top American Protoss. He's in Code S and all that.
Well, if you want to be really nitpicky, he probably counts as a Canadian
On August 03 2011 11:58 ChrysaliS_ wrote: I'd say Kiwikaki still holds the throne as top American Protoss. And please, iNcontroL should not belong in the debate at all... yeah he placed 4th at MLG, but as everyone as pointed out he got extremely lucky (beat Mihai, Slush, and TLO twice thanks to extended series), but besides that he has literally ZERO results and a 39% winrate...
Kiwi isn't American though.
Actually if we're nitpicky about it, there's only one reasonable choice for top American Protoss. He's in Code S and all that.
Huk is also Canadian
As for the EG issue, yeah they certainly do need to cut some players. I have nothing against their weaker players, and they are good players, but they're nowhere near pro caliber and have very few results to justify eating up money and space on the EG roster...that being said, doesn't look like it's gonna happen, as it would make no sense to cut players after inviting them to a teamhouse...
On August 03 2011 11:58 ChrysaliS_ wrote: I'd say Kiwikaki still holds the throne as top American Protoss. And please, iNcontroL should not belong in the debate at all... yeah he placed 4th at MLG, but as everyone as pointed out he got extremely lucky (beat Mihai, Slush, and TLO twice thanks to extended series), but besides that he has literally ZERO results and a 39% winrate...
Kiwi isn't American though.
Actually if we're nitpicky about it, there's only one reasonable choice for top American Protoss. He's in Code S and all that.
Huk is also Canadian
As for the EG issue, yeah they certainly do need to cut some players. I have nothing against their weaker players, and they are good players, but they're nowhere near pro caliber and have very few results to justify eating up money and space on the EG roster...that being said, doesn't look like it's gonna happen, as it would make no sense to cut players after inviting them to a teamhouse...
might be fair to give them a few months in a more professional atmosphere before kicking them,, dunno..
On August 03 2011 11:58 ChrysaliS_ wrote: I'd say Kiwikaki still holds the throne as top American Protoss. And please, iNcontroL should not belong in the debate at all... yeah he placed 4th at MLG, but as everyone as pointed out he got extremely lucky (beat Mihai, Slush, and TLO twice thanks to extended series), but besides that he has literally ZERO results and a 39% winrate...
Kiwi isn't American though.
Actually if we're nitpicky about it, there's only one reasonable choice for top American Protoss. He's in Code S and all that.
Huk is also Canadian
As for the EG issue, yeah they certainly do need to cut some players. I have nothing against their weaker players, and they are good players, but they're nowhere near pro caliber and have very few results to justify eating up money and space on the EG roster...that being said, doesn't look like it's gonna happen, as it would make no sense to cut players after inviting them to a teamhouse...
They never had a real practice regime, with the new house their "bad" players might improve a bunch and show good results which is most likely their goal lol
it all depends on how much work they're gonna put in, I wouldn't cut anyone just yet
On August 03 2011 11:38 ReignFayth wrote: I think part of why I quit is the ridiculous expectations from players who are terrible at the game
saying axslav is mediocre and strifecro is just not good and lz is trash
i mean jesus christ give them a break
from that point of view we could just say every foreigner right now is absolute trash at this game and they shouldn't bother playing this game since koreans are winning everything
I think some of the foreigners bring it on themselves with their laziness. Doctors, lawyers, average joes, everyone in the world works hard usually over 8 hours a day. In undeveloped countries its around 14 hours a day and tougher work.
Then you have guys like Idra who say they only practice 3 hours a day. Incontrol admitting he plays less than 4 hours a day and bad practice. How are people supposed to take it?
Guys like Kas and Sase are beloved and they both bombed out of Dreamhack but the community recognizes that they work hard and are professional.
tl;dr People that call themselves competitors and see the Koreans working 12 hours a day and they don't want to put in more than 3 hours are going to get criticized.
I mean seriously, I don't think that people actually think the Koreans are genetically superior. It's all practice. Even Daigo lost at Evo in Marvel because he only just started playing it.
Part of the problem in my opinion is that in the west, the kind of person who plays a computer game so much that he gets close to a professional level at it (which is where he then takes the jump to be a professional) is probably not the most productive member of society and most likely doesn't have the best worth ethic, if he did chance are he wouldn't be playing computer games all day he'd be in college, school or working a job.
So when it comes to the point where they have to treat that playing of a game like a job by training all day even when they don't feel like it just like you would a normal job they lack the work ethic to have one.
There are exceptions like Naniwa who fucked his real life up fairly hard at a young age but does have the required work ethic when it comes to computer games, but for a lot of western pro gamers the above applies.
Where as in Korea their culture is by nature hard working and even then being a pro gamer is much more of a legitimate career choice so the range of personalities playing RTS games all day in Korea is pretty different from in the west.
On August 03 2011 12:11 ReignFayth wrote: They never had a real practice regime, with the new house their "bad" players might improve a bunch and show good results which is most likely their goal lol
it all depends on how much work they're gonna put in, I wouldn't cut anyone just yet
I don't know why they would cut anyone, one of their problems and this holds for all foreign teams is they don't have enough players. Most Korean teams have at least 12 players, sometimes closer to 20. This allows for a lot more varied practice and a lot more heads thinking at once. Five Zergs discussing strategy is undoubtedly better than two.
On August 03 2011 12:11 ReignFayth wrote: They never had a real practice regime, with the new house their "bad" players might improve a bunch and show good results which is most likely their goal lol
it all depends on how much work they're gonna put in, I wouldn't cut anyone just yet
I don't know why they would cut anyone, one of their problems and this holds for all foreign teams is they don't have enough players. Most Korean teams have at least 12 players, sometimes closer to 20. This allows for a lot more varied practice and a lot more heads thinking at once. Five Zergs discussing strategy is undoubtedly better than two.
I imagine most foreign players would expect a salary to live full time in a team house, so getting more people is easier said than done, especially if you intend to drag someone across the oceans to live in LA.
Most Korean players don't expect a salary, and they don't get one. Especially the lower tier players and B teamers. They're happy just to make it into a team.
On August 03 2011 11:38 ReignFayth wrote: I think part of why I quit is the ridiculous expectations from players who are terrible at the game
saying axslav is mediocre and strifecro is just not good and lz is trash
i mean jesus christ give them a break
from that point of view we could just say every foreigner right now is absolute trash at this game and they shouldn't bother playing this game since koreans are winning everything
I think some of the foreigners bring it on themselves with their laziness. Doctors, lawyers, average joes, everyone in the world works hard usually over 8 hours a day. In undeveloped countries its around 14 hours a day and tougher work.
Then you have guys like Idra who say they only practice 3 hours a day. Incontrol admitting he plays less than 4 hours a day and bad practice. How are people supposed to take it?
Guys like Kas and Sase are beloved and they both bombed out of Dreamhack but the community recognizes that they work hard and are professional.
tl;dr People that call themselves competitors and see the Koreans working 12 hours a day and they don't want to put in more than 3 hours are going to get criticized.
I mean seriously, I don't think that people actually think the Koreans are genetically superior. It's all practice. Even Daigo lost at Evo in Marvel because he only just started playing it.
Part of the problem in my opinion is that in the west, the kind of person who plays a computer game so much that he gets close to a professional level at it (which is where he then takes the jump to be a professional) is probably not the most productive member of society and most likely doesn't have the best worth ethic, if he did chance are he wouldn't be playing computer games all day he'd be in college, school or working a job.
So when it comes to the point where they have to treat that playing of a game like a job by training all day even when they don't feel like it just like you would a normal job they lack the work ethic to have one.
There are exceptions like Naniwa who fucked his real life up fairly hard at a young age but does have the required work ethic when it comes to computer games, but for a lot of western pro gamers the above applies.
Where as in Korea their culture is by nature hard working and even then being a pro gamer is much more of a legitimate career choice so the range of personalities playing RTS games all day in Korea is pretty different from in the west.
when koreans become progamers they do it because they truly want to be the best..
many westerners probably just want to not have to work and get up early like normal people,, i think they get caught up in the comfy part of being a progamer and forget that they need to work REALLY hard to compete with the best..
On August 03 2011 12:18 Coolwhip wrote: Idra lost to a not high ranked American. How do you explain that fanboys!
As Nestea, the king of zerg, has said before, "zerg can always lose". I lose to fuckin diamonds and im high master in zvz because i hate that matchup..
On August 03 2011 11:38 ReignFayth wrote: I think part of why I quit is the ridiculous expectations from players who are terrible at the game
saying axslav is mediocre and strifecro is just not good and lz is trash
i mean jesus christ give them a break
from that point of view we could just say every foreigner right now is absolute trash at this game and they shouldn't bother playing this game since koreans are winning everything
I think some of the foreigners bring it on themselves with their laziness. Doctors, lawyers, average joes, everyone in the world works hard usually over 8 hours a day. In undeveloped countries its around 14 hours a day and tougher work.
Then you have guys like Idra who say they only practice 3 hours a day. Incontrol admitting he plays less than 4 hours a day and bad practice. How are people supposed to take it?
Guys like Kas and Sase are beloved and they both bombed out of Dreamhack but the community recognizes that they work hard and are professional.
tl;dr People that call themselves competitors and see the Koreans working 12 hours a day and they don't want to put in more than 3 hours are going to get criticized.
I mean seriously, I don't think that people actually think the Koreans are genetically superior. It's all practice. Even Daigo lost at Evo in Marvel because he only just started playing it.
Part of the problem in my opinion is that in the west, the kind of person who plays a computer game so much that he gets close to a professional level at it (which is where he then takes the jump to be a professional) is probably not the most productive member of society and most likely doesn't have the best worth ethic, if he did chance are he wouldn't be playing computer games all day he'd be in college, school or working a job.
So when it comes to the point where they have to treat that playing of a game like a job by training all day even when they don't feel like it just like you would a normal job they lack the work ethic to have one.
There are exceptions like Naniwa who fucked his real life up fairly hard at a young age but does have the required work ethic when it comes to computer games, but for a lot of western pro gamers the above applies.
Where as in Korea their culture is by nature hard working and even then being a pro gamer is much more of a legitimate career choice so the range of personalities playing RTS games all day in Korea is pretty different from in the west.
when koreans become progamers they do it because they truly want to be the best..
many westerners probably just want to not have to work and get up early like normal people,, i think they get caught up in the comfy part of being a progamer and forget that they need to work REALLY hard to compete with the best..
This is also true.
I'm pretty sure that if you interview 20 top foreign players (other than the ones in Korea and the ones intending to go there) about their chances to win a GSL or any major tournament (since Koreans now show up to all of them), and they answer honestly, they would probably not put much faith into their chances.
But then you have guys like oGsHerO (and many many more) who made it into Code A ONCE, and now once again didn't make it, and he's basically got an entire horde of top quality players standing in his way to earning pretty much any money at all from playing Starcraft, but he's still going at it and training relentlessly. Or even HuK, who was saying that his goal is to win GSL and that he believes he can do it even while he was playing horribly and getting beaten by a lot of foreign players too.
I think that coming into Starcraft without an ambition and drive to be the best player is just not going to work out. It might be different for other esports, especially team based ones, but Starcraft 2 is no less brutal than BW and we'll see that kind of scene develop pretty soon (or at least I hope).
On August 03 2011 11:38 ReignFayth wrote: I think part of why I quit is the ridiculous expectations from players who are terrible at the game
saying axslav is mediocre and strifecro is just not good and lz is trash
i mean jesus christ give them a break
from that point of view we could just say every foreigner right now is absolute trash at this game and they shouldn't bother playing this game since koreans are winning everything
Nah I don't really want to give them a break. Either you perform or you get cut, that's how it works in the game I play at a high competitive level....
Congrats to Reign! I voted for you guys in the poll! Never vote against Kiwikaki! Also gj to Spades (as well as the entire Reign team of course). Sucks that Slush didn't get to play.
On August 03 2011 11:58 ChrysaliS_ wrote: I'd say Kiwikaki still holds the throne as top American Protoss. And please, iNcontroL should not belong in the debate at all... yeah he placed 4th at MLG, but as everyone as pointed out he got extremely lucky (beat Mihai, Slush, and TLO twice thanks to extended series), but besides that he has literally ZERO results and a 39% winrate...
To settle the top Protoss in North America, it's really about who's the best Protoss in Canada, which is between Huk, Kiwikaki and TT1.
On August 03 2011 11:58 ChrysaliS_ wrote: I'd say Kiwikaki still holds the throne as top American Protoss. And please, iNcontroL should not belong in the debate at all... yeah he placed 4th at MLG, but as everyone as pointed out he got extremely lucky (beat Mihai, Slush, and TLO twice thanks to extended series), but besides that he has literally ZERO results and a 39% winrate...
To settle the top Protoss in North America, it's really about who's the best Protoss in Canada, which is between Huk, Kiwikaki and TT1.
I loled. It is quite clearly HuK, and second place is quite clearly Kiwikaki. After that it is irrelevant because the rest of the Canadian toss are not competitive.
On August 03 2011 11:38 ReignFayth wrote: I think part of why I quit is the ridiculous expectations from players who are terrible at the game
saying axslav is mediocre and strifecro is just not good and lz is trash
i mean jesus christ give them a break
from that point of view we could just say every foreigner right now is absolute trash at this game and they shouldn't bother playing this game since koreans are winning everything
Nah I don't really want to give them a break. Either you perform or you get cut, that's how it works in the game I play at a high competitive level....
Honest question Fayth, do you feel the EG roster outside of IdrA has played at a standard that would be synonymous with EG before SC2's release? EG has always been a premiere eSports team in all of their other games. We've had the gave for over a year (and competitive even in beta) and nobody on their roster has posted any meaningful results or even great strides in improvement since the game came out.
I don't think it's out of bounds to say the EG roster has been a tremendous disappointment when it comes to professional gaming. Where EG has really shined is content production, incontrol\idra on podcasts, commercials etc., building tremendous name recognition through community efforts. From strictly a sc2 pro gaming performance spectrum they aren't even a blip on the radar.
I don't think any of this is unfair to say and it's a huge letdown as a long time EG CS fan. EG along with SK Gaming (after 4K died) were my favorite gaming teams and I followed them since ~2001 when I was a competitive TFC player (CPL angel munoz whatsupppppppp). I just can't wrap my head around how such a prestigious team could have no results outside of their one ACE player in over a year. It doesn't compute with my brain when I think back to my notions of EG as a pro gaming team.
On August 03 2011 11:58 ChrysaliS_ wrote: I'd say Kiwikaki still holds the throne as top American Protoss. And please, iNcontroL should not belong in the debate at all... yeah he placed 4th at MLG, but as everyone as pointed out he got extremely lucky (beat Mihai, Slush, and TLO twice thanks to extended series), but besides that he has literally ZERO results and a 39% winrate...
To settle the top Protoss in North America, it's really about who's the best Protoss in Canada, which is between Huk, Kiwikaki and TT1.
No, it's HuK, then Kiwikaki, then maybe a few other people, TT1 has been pretty off the radar for months.
On August 03 2011 11:58 ChrysaliS_ wrote: I'd say Kiwikaki still holds the throne as top American Protoss. And please, iNcontroL should not belong in the debate at all... yeah he placed 4th at MLG, but as everyone as pointed out he got extremely lucky (beat Mihai, Slush, and TLO twice thanks to extended series), but besides that he has literally ZERO results and a 39% winrate...
To settle the top Protoss in North America, it's really about who's the best Protoss in Canada, which is between Huk, Kiwikaki and TT1.
You just had to say it... IB4 country debate.
Huk is a clear #1.
I would venture to say there are a bunch of other top NA protoss players most people have not said much about, like ONEwbc (who did really well at MLG), and Gatored, Cruncher, etc. They could contest players like TT1 and Kiwi IMO.
I would still say I'm surprised EG lost, but seeing how PuMa did not play not so much. I still had most of their players better than Reign's, minus Kiw, which is why I was expecting a relative blowout.
did spades 11/11 vs idra and ghost rush vs axlav? no srsly i wouldn't have expected that at all since he was not doing so well from what i saw (which was not that much i have to admit)
also slush didnt even get to play (was probably ace) and they still won im kinda impressed
On August 03 2011 11:38 ReignFayth wrote: I think part of why I quit is the ridiculous expectations from players who are terrible at the game
saying axslav is mediocre and strifecro is just not good and lz is trash
i mean jesus christ give them a break
from that point of view we could just say every foreigner right now is absolute trash at this game and they shouldn't bother playing this game since koreans are winning everything
noone is saying 'foreigners are trash, they should just give up'
people are saying 'foreigners are (mostly) trash, they should work harder for their money'
go back 6 months and everyone was saying the difference between korea and the west is so small, now is our chance to have an amazing scene. then the korean players worked their asses off for no reward except the promise of a future scene in korea. western players who have already been given their scene handed on a plate with thousands of tourneys and massive prize pools. and from that we have tons of players pretending to be too good to take part in smaller matches or too cool to practice.
thats, why u get this backlash when pro level players are allowed to get away with poor play, because we all know that if they had been working hard 6 months ago they would be too good for it now.
On August 03 2011 16:49 sVnteen wrote: did spades 11/11 vs idra and ghost rush vs axlav? no srsly i wouldn't have expected that at all since he was not doing so well from what i saw (which was not that much i have to admit)
also slush didnt even get to play (was probably ace) and they still won im kinda impressed
spades made 10 helions and when idra saw it put down a spire rather than morphed banelings
On August 03 2011 11:38 ReignFayth wrote: I think part of why I quit is the ridiculous expectations from players who are terrible at the game
saying axslav is mediocre and strifecro is just not good and lz is trash
i mean jesus christ give them a break
from that point of view we could just say every foreigner right now is absolute trash at this game and they shouldn't bother playing this game since koreans are winning everything
noone is saying 'foreigners are trash, they should just give up'
people are saying 'foreigners are (mostly) trash, they should work harder for their money'
go back 6 months and everyone was saying the difference between korea and the west is so small, now is our chance to have an amazing scene. then the korean players worked their asses off for no reward except the promise of a future scene in korea. western players who have already been given their scene handed on a plate with thousands of tourneys and massive prize pools. and from that we have tons of players pretending to be too good to take part in smaller matches or too cool to practice.
thats, why u get this backlash when pro level players are allowed to get away with poor play, because we all know that if they had been working hard 6 months ago they would be too good for it now.
Except those same people go shit all over threads like the EG House thread, saying that it won't help and that practice is pointless because they are all "so shitty" that they won't actually improve because only playing good Koreans will make you better.
On August 03 2011 12:18 Coolwhip wrote: Idra lost to a not high ranked American. How do you explain that fanboys!
As Nestea, the king of zerg, has said before, "zerg can always lose". I lose to fuckin diamonds and im high master in zvz because i hate that matchup..
It's funny how you use ZvZ as the example of how "Zerg can always lose". I wonder if IdrA just stuck to Terran during his switch from BW to SC2 whether Terrans would just blame their race for losing too.
On August 03 2011 11:38 ReignFayth wrote: I think part of why I quit is the ridiculous expectations from players who are terrible at the game
saying axslav is mediocre and strifecro is just not good and lz is trash
i mean jesus christ give them a break
from that point of view we could just say every foreigner right now is absolute trash at this game and they shouldn't bother playing this game since koreans are winning everything
noone is saying 'foreigners are trash, they should just give up'
people are saying 'foreigners are (mostly) trash, they should work harder for their money'
go back 6 months and everyone was saying the difference between korea and the west is so small, now is our chance to have an amazing scene. then the korean players worked their asses off for no reward except the promise of a future scene in korea. western players who have already been given their scene handed on a plate with thousands of tourneys and massive prize pools. and from that we have tons of players pretending to be too good to take part in smaller matches or too cool to practice.
thats, why u get this backlash when pro level players are allowed to get away with poor play, because we all know that if they had been working hard 6 months ago they would be too good for it now.
Except those same people go shit all over threads like the EG House thread, saying that it won't help and that practice is pointless because they are all "so shitty" that they won't actually improve because only playing good Koreans will make you better.
People bitch regardless.
thats the difference between random hating and legit criticism
On August 03 2011 12:18 Coolwhip wrote: Idra lost to a not high ranked American. How do you explain that fanboys!
As Nestea, the king of zerg, has said before, "zerg can always lose". I lose to fuckin diamonds and im high master in zvz because i hate that matchup..
It's funny how you use ZvZ as the example of how "Zerg can always lose". I wonder if IdrA just stuck to Terran during his switch from BW to SC2 whether Terrans would just blame their race for losing too.
that and how random people use their own ladder experiences (idc about skill, im no pro, you're no pro doesnt matter, you can lose to anyone as any race if you arent pro) to defend him
i get the feeling that idra would have a field day with TvZ and TvP requiring "so much more skill"
On August 03 2011 12:18 Coolwhip wrote: Idra lost to a not high ranked American. How do you explain that fanboys!
As Nestea, the king of zerg, has said before, "zerg can always lose". I lose to fuckin diamonds and im high master in zvz because i hate that matchup..
Yeah, and yet NesTea the King of Zergs apparently has the awesome luck of having a 90%+ ZvZ win rate.
Every race can always lose, if you make a mistake or get incredibly unlucky.
On August 03 2011 11:58 ChrysaliS_ wrote: I'd say Kiwikaki still holds the throne as top American Protoss. And please, iNcontroL should not belong in the debate at all... yeah he placed 4th at MLG, but as everyone as pointed out he got extremely lucky (beat Mihai, Slush, and TLO twice thanks to extended series), but besides that he has literally ZERO results and a 39% winrate...
Kiwi isn't American though.
Actually if we're nitpicky about it, there's only one reasonable choice for top American Protoss. He's in Code S and all that.
Well if you wanna get all nitpicky about it, he's Canadian...
Lol @ the comments from people who didn't watch the games. Machine could have won if he'd just done a straight hydra nydus instead of that stupid baneling bust, but he seriously seemed to underestimate how bad is opponent was.
You really need to go and watch the Idra vs Spades game. Spades won with a basically unscoutable coin flip. Even I felt for Idra regarding the scouting options, when he poked the front it could have been ANYTHING coming (a load of marines, one hellion poked).
lol@all the people who said EG would take it no problem. EG is really weak and Reign has put together a pretty good team. Proud to say I'm one of 40% who voted REIGN.
Did EG get too cocky not playing puma? Don't see any reason why he didn't play and it's not cause of lag cause he played the nasl open bracket with lag.
On August 04 2011 02:31 Canucklehead wrote: Did EG get too cocky not playing puma? Don't see any reason why he didn't play and it's not cause of lag cause he played the nasl open bracket with lag.
He lives in opposite ends of the timezone, as said many times in this threat hes most likely just going to be a figurhead at offline events
On August 04 2011 02:31 Canucklehead wrote: Did EG get too cocky not playing puma? Don't see any reason why he didn't play and it's not cause of lag cause he played the nasl open bracket with lag.
He lives in opposite ends of the timezone, as said many times in this threat hes most likely just going to be a figurhead at offline events
So? He played nasl open bracket from like 1am - 5am or something like that. He's being paid by EG now so I expect him to show up for these things.
Does the IPL release replays? If so, where can I find them? That phoenix thing, and the chargelot/archon build from KiWi looked interesting, and I've been looking for stuff like that.
On August 04 2011 04:02 Fyzar wrote: Does the IPL release replays? If so, where can I find them? That phoenix thing, and the chargelot/archon build from KiWi looked interesting, and I've been looking for stuff like that.
Not sure if they do, but if so then their site would be a good idea. Can't guarantee anything though.
On August 03 2011 22:00 ashaman771 wrote: Support North American players. Support European players.
Trashing them won't help the sport, and won't help grow the sport.
I love IGNProleague, I love the team stuff now.
When i want to see koreans, i watch GSL. Watching someone who's 15% better isn't more important to me than supporting north american teams.
you have no idea how much i wish the skill gap was actually15 % i still enjoy top EU players, wich are not that worse compared to KR, but US is another story
EG fanboys are always hilarious. Idra all kill every single clan match - but they never beat ROOT - and they won't beat RGN. That team is looking strong
On August 04 2011 02:31 Canucklehead wrote: Did EG get too cocky not playing puma? Don't see any reason why he didn't play and it's not cause of lag cause he played the nasl open bracket with lag.
He lives in opposite ends of the timezone, as said many times in this threat hes most likely just going to be a figurhead at offline events
So? He played nasl open bracket from like 1am - 5am or something like that. He's being paid by EG now so I expect him to show up for these things.
I'm sure they thought he wouldn't be needed to take out a "scrub team" like reign.
On August 03 2011 12:18 Coolwhip wrote: Idra lost to a not high ranked American. How do you explain that fanboys!
As Nestea, the king of zerg, has said before, "zerg can always lose". I lose to fuckin diamonds and im high master in zvz because i hate that matchup..
On August 04 2011 02:31 Canucklehead wrote: Did EG get too cocky not playing puma? Don't see any reason why he didn't play and it's not cause of lag cause he played the nasl open bracket with lag.
He lives in opposite ends of the timezone, as said many times in this threat hes most likely just going to be a figurhead at offline events
So? He played nasl open bracket from like 1am - 5am or something like that. He's being paid by EG now so I expect him to show up for these things.
I'm sure they thought he wouldn't be needed to take out a "scrub team" like reign.
Well I think these games were played before MLG and I am not sure when exactly. Because of that, Puma may not have finalized details with EG of his contract- because though the shitstorm started early, the actual signing did not occur way too long ago.
On August 04 2011 08:11 Loodah wrote: This is hilarious !!!!
EG fanboys are always hilarious. Idra all kill every single clan match - but they never beat ROOT - and they won't beat RGN. That team is looking strong
Yeah!, HAHAAHAHAAHAHA
So funny! Good team losing to another good team, it's HILARIOUS!
PainUser was super surprised when EG went down to ROOT as well, he apparently thinks IdrA is superhuman or something.
The problem with EG has always been the massive reliance on IdrA, once he's out, they're pretty much out. This was why ROOT was always the best team in NA and not them, at the end of the day, only IdrA could beat Kiwikaki, but they had players other than Kiwikaki who could take him down.
On August 04 2011 11:02 Mordiford wrote: PainUser was super surprised when EG went down to ROOT as well, he apparently thinks IdrA is superhuman or something.
The problem with EG has always been the massive reliance on IdrA, once he's out, they're pretty much out. This was why ROOT was always the best team in NA and not them, at the end of the day, only IdrA could beat Kiwikaki, but they had players other than Kiwikaki who could take him down.
People actually used to think EG was favorite to win against ROOT back when ROOT had like Kiwi, SLush, Sheth, qxc and Drewbie on the roster
Root was so so good back in the day, I really miss them on the NA scene.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/YwMM8.png)
![[image loading]](http://loudmediadesign.com/ipl/teamleague/teamleague_7c.png)
IdrA
iNcontroL
DeMusliM![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AiAgN.png)
Facebook, ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xBVkG.png)
Twitter, ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/x6Xnq.png)
YouTube, and Justin.TV!
![[image loading]](http://imgs.xkcd.com/blag/ball_pit_450.jpg)
