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On June 23 2011 21:16 Mortal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:15 MinoMino wrote:DRG SC2 bonjwa in the making. Excellent day for my FPL, with both Alicia and DRG. Was calling an Alicia 3-kill and DRG reverse AK, so I guess I wasn't too far off.  ... stop jumping to bonjwa status... and guineapig didn't do anything right?
What do you mean. I said I was wrong with what I was calling, didn't I?
Jumping to bonjwa status? What's that supposed to mean? You're confusing me.
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On June 23 2011 21:19 TeWy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:15 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:On June 23 2011 21:10 drox22 wrote:On June 23 2011 21:06 tomatriedes wrote:On June 23 2011 21:02 FatalT wrote:
Korean terrans have been superior in multitasking and control, now that Korean zergs are catching up problems with zvt is starting 2 get obvious imo. Mutalingbling is awesome, infestor/bl is awesome.. so hard to play vs z now'a'days Dude, how many places in the last GSL semi-finals were filled by terrans? And who won the last MLG? Terran's doing more than fine at the moment. Hold on a second. 1 terran in the top8 of mlg 1 terran in the top8 of dreamhack Terran also had the lowest win percentage at MLG. Also the lowest win percentage in the NASL. And the reason terran was dominating the super tournament was because most players who participated were terran. Terran is not doing fine right now at all, Zerg is dominating the ZvT match up in pretty much every tournament. Yes ZERG is op -.- (not) Terrans are losing because all they want to do is a 2 rax bunker push which is so easy to deny without losing any drones so yes lets blame Zergs being OP not the fact that terrans are all doing the same thing when it clearly fails vs a great zerg....... It's pretty obvious that Terran has no answer to large group of SC2 mutalisks since they are so easy to micro with infinite unit selection. (and i'm not terran). In Starcraft 1 there was irradiate, in sc2 there's nothing. You have to outmicro the Zerg with your marines which become exponentially harder as long as the games goes on and that the Zerg doesn't do any blunder (ofc not doing any blunder against stimmed marines is hard but that's another debate). That's not even a complain, that's a fact.
That's a fact so why don't you play zerg, make a bunch of mutas and win all the tournaments? I guess you're too proud to use such an easy race.
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On June 23 2011 21:18 drox22 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:15 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:On June 23 2011 21:10 drox22 wrote:On June 23 2011 21:06 tomatriedes wrote:On June 23 2011 21:02 FatalT wrote:
Korean terrans have been superior in multitasking and control, now that Korean zergs are catching up problems with zvt is starting 2 get obvious imo. Mutalingbling is awesome, infestor/bl is awesome.. so hard to play vs z now'a'days Dude, how many places in the last GSL semi-finals were filled by terrans? And who won the last MLG? Terran's doing more than fine at the moment. Hold on a second. 1 terran in the top8 of mlg 1 terran in the top8 of dreamhack Terran also had the lowest win percentage at MLG. Also the lowest win percentage in the NASL. And the reason terran was dominating the super tournament was because most players who participated were terran. Terran is not doing fine right now at all, Zerg is dominating the ZvT match up in pretty much every tournament. Yes ZERG is op -.- (not) Terrans are losing because all they want to do is a 2 rax bunker push which is so easy to deny without losing any drones so yes lets blame Zergs being OP not the fact that terrans are all doing the same thing when it clearly fails vs a great zerg....... So are you blaming terrans for pressure expand builds now aswell? it's the best thing you can do against zerg, if you don't pressure zerg you lose automatically.
Im not blaming pressure builds im blaming it on terrans doing the same thing over and over and over again then complain that its imba not that weve(zergs) gotten so use to it that we like it when we see it because we know were going to come ahead ESPECIALLY if i kill your marines with my lings.
You can still open reaper dual hellion 3 rax marine timing all of these are viable and good options but all terrans want to do the same thing over and over..... if i were to 14 hatch everygame why not 1 rax expand? into 2 base timing push
So dont blame IMBA blame ur strategy
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On June 23 2011 21:19 Pajegetc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:15 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:On June 23 2011 21:10 drox22 wrote:On June 23 2011 21:06 tomatriedes wrote:On June 23 2011 21:02 FatalT wrote:
Korean terrans have been superior in multitasking and control, now that Korean zergs are catching up problems with zvt is starting 2 get obvious imo. Mutalingbling is awesome, infestor/bl is awesome.. so hard to play vs z now'a'days Dude, how many places in the last GSL semi-finals were filled by terrans? And who won the last MLG? Terran's doing more than fine at the moment. Hold on a second. 1 terran in the top8 of mlg 1 terran in the top8 of dreamhack Terran also had the lowest win percentage at MLG. Also the lowest win percentage in the NASL. And the reason terran was dominating the super tournament was because most players who participated were terran. Terran is not doing fine right now at all, Zerg is dominating the ZvT match up in pretty much every tournament. Yes ZERG is op -.- (not) Terrans are losing because all they want to do is a 2 rax bunker push which is so easy to deny without losing any drones so yes lets blame Zergs being OP not the fact that terrans are all doing the same thing when it clearly fails vs a great zerg....... Cause you have to put pressure on early or else they drone and own you. Every form of harass is completely figured out while any attack you might try to do, gets counterattacked, or mutas of gg destroy your whole base.
Yeah that's the thing, over time zerg will get better and better at defending terran attacks and drops, etc... it's going to get harder and harder for terran to beat zerg, zerg if played right can be almost unbeatable, I can't say the same about terran or protoss, they are both very limited races, zerg just doesn't seem to have a limit.
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muta ling baneling has been around since the dawn of sc2 and has been played the same way as it always has
why are people saying it just got OP when DRG did nothing out of the ordinary and played pretty standard. If a zerg can get 30 mutas out then you really have no idea how far behind you are.
the baneling landmine at the 3rd is really what set MMA back, lost a lot of marines so he couldn't push, lost a lot of economy as well
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On June 23 2011 21:19 Pajegetc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:15 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:On June 23 2011 21:10 drox22 wrote:On June 23 2011 21:06 tomatriedes wrote:On June 23 2011 21:02 FatalT wrote:
Korean terrans have been superior in multitasking and control, now that Korean zergs are catching up problems with zvt is starting 2 get obvious imo. Mutalingbling is awesome, infestor/bl is awesome.. so hard to play vs z now'a'days Dude, how many places in the last GSL semi-finals were filled by terrans? And who won the last MLG? Terran's doing more than fine at the moment. Hold on a second. 1 terran in the top8 of mlg 1 terran in the top8 of dreamhack Terran also had the lowest win percentage at MLG. Also the lowest win percentage in the NASL. And the reason terran was dominating the super tournament was because most players who participated were terran. Terran is not doing fine right now at all, Zerg is dominating the ZvT match up in pretty much every tournament. Yes ZERG is op -.- (not) Terrans are losing because all they want to do is a 2 rax bunker push which is so easy to deny without losing any drones so yes lets blame Zergs being OP not the fact that terrans are all doing the same thing when it clearly fails vs a great zerg....... Cause you have to put pressure on early or else they drone and own you. Every form of harass is completely figured out while any attack you might try to do, gets counterattacked, or mutas of gg destroy your whole base.
ASK BLIZZARD whats the main point for zerg they will say their ablilaty to counter attack...... now you want to take the only thing we can do... since if we face you head on your in the favored to win.... (and i know bling imba......) GEt mauraders........ dont just spam a for marines....... and hope your tanks are good enought to take them out.....
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On June 23 2011 21:23 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:18 drox22 wrote:On June 23 2011 21:15 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:On June 23 2011 21:10 drox22 wrote:On June 23 2011 21:06 tomatriedes wrote:On June 23 2011 21:02 FatalT wrote:
Korean terrans have been superior in multitasking and control, now that Korean zergs are catching up problems with zvt is starting 2 get obvious imo. Mutalingbling is awesome, infestor/bl is awesome.. so hard to play vs z now'a'days Dude, how many places in the last GSL semi-finals were filled by terrans? And who won the last MLG? Terran's doing more than fine at the moment. Hold on a second. 1 terran in the top8 of mlg 1 terran in the top8 of dreamhack Terran also had the lowest win percentage at MLG. Also the lowest win percentage in the NASL. And the reason terran was dominating the super tournament was because most players who participated were terran. Terran is not doing fine right now at all, Zerg is dominating the ZvT match up in pretty much every tournament. Yes ZERG is op -.- (not) Terrans are losing because all they want to do is a 2 rax bunker push which is so easy to deny without losing any drones so yes lets blame Zergs being OP not the fact that terrans are all doing the same thing when it clearly fails vs a great zerg....... So are you blaming terrans for pressure expand builds now aswell? it's the best thing you can do against zerg, if you don't pressure zerg you lose automatically. Im not blaming pressure builds im blaming it on terrans doing the same thing over and over and over again then complain that its imba not that weve(zergs) gotten so use to it that we like it when we see it because we know were going to come ahead ESPECIALLY if i kill your marines with my lings. You can still open reaper dual hellion 3 rax marine timing all of these are viable and good options but all terrans want to do the same thing over and over..... if i were to 14 hatch everygame why not 1 rax expand? into 2 base timing push So dont blame IMBA blame ur strategy
because if you 15 hatch and I 1 rax expand there is no way that I'm going to win if you know when my timing push is coming. Hence why I said zerg is getting better and better at holding of timing attacks and pushes which in the future will make them almost unbeatable, trust me.
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On June 23 2011 21:17 Genome852 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:15 Fubi wrote:On June 23 2011 21:03 Qikz wrote:
Damn. DRG's mutalisks are really annoying.
I don't know what MMA could have done there. more turrets maybe? I can't think of any valid strat that can counter DRG's style as long as DRG doesn't make a big blunder. DRG seems to have early terran pressure figured out. He then gets a early 3rd up. The deciding point i think is here. If you can't kill his third and keep him from getting it, the game is pretty much over imo. He is just able to get so many Mutas with 3 bases that they can one shot turrets, or a random fly by the mineral line will kill 4-5 SCV's every time. The only thing that can really counter Mutas is Marines. Thors I feel they're too immobile, and can't mass produce fast enough. And to counter that, DRG just gets mass banes+lings, and trade army with the terran. Terran can't reproduce as fast as the Zerg, so DRG just slowly overwhelm the Terran at this point. But i'm no professional gamer so I'm sure one of them will eventually figure out a way to counter DRG's style eventually. You NEED thors against mass muta. I'm pretty sure heavy thor play would kill DRG, considering he still pumps mutas even after seeing 5 factories (Boxer vs DRG game). If boxer had made pure thor that game instead of 8+ tanks which did nothing he would have won easily.
The problem with Thor is...
1) You can't go on the offensive because they are so immobile. The zerg will just outmacro you like DRG have shown.
2) They aren't good against Mutas in small numbers; if you leave one by your mineral line, a few mutas can Magic Box it and kill it easily. But it's hard to "mass" thors compared to mutas. And the later the game goes on, the more bases you have, the more spread out your thors will be while their Mutas are always in one group picking off the weaker base.
3) You must stop making Tanks to make them.
4) But without tanks, bane+lings will own the marine+thor combo
They've tried Thors tonight, and as you can see, it didn't really work. If you don't get enough, the Mutas just treat them as if they are nothing and just magic box one or two of them to death. You get too many, you won't have enough of tanks and gets overrunned by DRG's heavy Lings+banes combo.
The most effective way to counter mutas is to prevent them from making them in the first place. I think Ganzi had a very good idea, but failed at the execution and a few key decision making.
Really tho, I don't see any T winning against DRG once he gets up a 3rd. But the problem is, DRG is SOOOOO good at defending.
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On June 23 2011 21:20 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:18 pyro19 wrote:On June 23 2011 21:15 Pajegetc wrote:On June 23 2011 21:13 HolyArrow wrote:
Wow, people are really quick to jump on the DRG bandwagon and simultaneously disregard Nestea, from what I've been reading here. Give Nestea some credit -_-;; seriously. Obviously you can point out many more mistakes Nestea has made in the past because he's been around for so much longer than DRG and thus we've seen many more of his matches. That's how this forums work, quick to bash and quick to bandwagon over ONE game. Last year"s GSTL , special tournament and 3 games today isnt enough for you? People said the very same thing for MMA and he flourished in the Individual leagues too. no one is arguing that he isn't good but to say he's better than nestea is just the stupidest thing you could say in a situation like this
From what I've seen DRG's ZvT is better than NesTea's, NesTea has better ZvP and ZvZ. NesTea's mid-late game vs T is same as DRG's, but DRG has better early game.
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Baneling bombs are sweet. I really think they can be used more than they are today too. Now they are used to own mineral lines or marine blobs moving out to attack.
Why not flank with a couple of banelings and burrow for when the terran retreats back? Should be pretty good, hoping we'll see that out of some of the best (DRG/Nestea/Losira) in the future.
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On June 23 2011 21:26 drox22 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:23 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:On June 23 2011 21:18 drox22 wrote:On June 23 2011 21:15 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:On June 23 2011 21:10 drox22 wrote:On June 23 2011 21:06 tomatriedes wrote:On June 23 2011 21:02 FatalT wrote:
Korean terrans have been superior in multitasking and control, now that Korean zergs are catching up problems with zvt is starting 2 get obvious imo. Mutalingbling is awesome, infestor/bl is awesome.. so hard to play vs z now'a'days Dude, how many places in the last GSL semi-finals were filled by terrans? And who won the last MLG? Terran's doing more than fine at the moment. Hold on a second. 1 terran in the top8 of mlg 1 terran in the top8 of dreamhack Terran also had the lowest win percentage at MLG. Also the lowest win percentage in the NASL. And the reason terran was dominating the super tournament was because most players who participated were terran. Terran is not doing fine right now at all, Zerg is dominating the ZvT match up in pretty much every tournament. Yes ZERG is op -.- (not) Terrans are losing because all they want to do is a 2 rax bunker push which is so easy to deny without losing any drones so yes lets blame Zergs being OP not the fact that terrans are all doing the same thing when it clearly fails vs a great zerg....... So are you blaming terrans for pressure expand builds now aswell? it's the best thing you can do against zerg, if you don't pressure zerg you lose automatically. Im not blaming pressure builds im blaming it on terrans doing the same thing over and over and over again then complain that its imba not that weve(zergs) gotten so use to it that we like it when we see it because we know were going to come ahead ESPECIALLY if i kill your marines with my lings. You can still open reaper dual hellion 3 rax marine timing all of these are viable and good options but all terrans want to do the same thing over and over..... if i were to 14 hatch everygame why not 1 rax expand? into 2 base timing push So dont blame IMBA blame ur strategy because if you 15 hatch and I 1 rax expand there is no way that I'm going to win if you know when my timing push is coming. Hence why I said zerg is getting better and better at holding of timing attacks and pushes which in the future will make them almost unbeatable, trust me.
Yes because terran players won't improve at all.
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On June 23 2011 21:26 drox22 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:23 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:On June 23 2011 21:18 drox22 wrote:On June 23 2011 21:15 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:On June 23 2011 21:10 drox22 wrote:On June 23 2011 21:06 tomatriedes wrote:On June 23 2011 21:02 FatalT wrote:
Korean terrans have been superior in multitasking and control, now that Korean zergs are catching up problems with zvt is starting 2 get obvious imo. Mutalingbling is awesome, infestor/bl is awesome.. so hard to play vs z now'a'days Dude, how many places in the last GSL semi-finals were filled by terrans? And who won the last MLG? Terran's doing more than fine at the moment. Hold on a second. 1 terran in the top8 of mlg 1 terran in the top8 of dreamhack Terran also had the lowest win percentage at MLG. Also the lowest win percentage in the NASL. And the reason terran was dominating the super tournament was because most players who participated were terran. Terran is not doing fine right now at all, Zerg is dominating the ZvT match up in pretty much every tournament. Yes ZERG is op -.- (not) Terrans are losing because all they want to do is a 2 rax bunker push which is so easy to deny without losing any drones so yes lets blame Zergs being OP not the fact that terrans are all doing the same thing when it clearly fails vs a great zerg....... So are you blaming terrans for pressure expand builds now aswell? it's the best thing you can do against zerg, if you don't pressure zerg you lose automatically. Im not blaming pressure builds im blaming it on terrans doing the same thing over and over and over again then complain that its imba not that weve(zergs) gotten so use to it that we like it when we see it because we know were going to come ahead ESPECIALLY if i kill your marines with my lings. You can still open reaper dual hellion 3 rax marine timing all of these are viable and good options but all terrans want to do the same thing over and over..... if i were to 14 hatch everygame why not 1 rax expand? into 2 base timing push So dont blame IMBA blame ur strategy because if you 15 hatch and I 1 rax expand there is no way that I'm going to win if you know when my timing push is coming. Hence why I said zerg is getting better and better at holding of timing attacks and pushes which in the future will make them almost unbeatable, trust me.
ah yes, and this generalization was all demonstrated by 1 single zerg player in the entire world
very good insight here
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On June 23 2011 21:23 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:18 drox22 wrote:On June 23 2011 21:15 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:On June 23 2011 21:10 drox22 wrote:On June 23 2011 21:06 tomatriedes wrote:On June 23 2011 21:02 FatalT wrote:
Korean terrans have been superior in multitasking and control, now that Korean zergs are catching up problems with zvt is starting 2 get obvious imo. Mutalingbling is awesome, infestor/bl is awesome.. so hard to play vs z now'a'days Dude, how many places in the last GSL semi-finals were filled by terrans? And who won the last MLG? Terran's doing more than fine at the moment. Hold on a second. 1 terran in the top8 of mlg 1 terran in the top8 of dreamhack Terran also had the lowest win percentage at MLG. Also the lowest win percentage in the NASL. And the reason terran was dominating the super tournament was because most players who participated were terran. Terran is not doing fine right now at all, Zerg is dominating the ZvT match up in pretty much every tournament. Yes ZERG is op -.- (not) Terrans are losing because all they want to do is a 2 rax bunker push which is so easy to deny without losing any drones so yes lets blame Zergs being OP not the fact that terrans are all doing the same thing when it clearly fails vs a great zerg....... So are you blaming terrans for pressure expand builds now aswell? it's the best thing you can do against zerg, if you don't pressure zerg you lose automatically. Im not blaming pressure builds im blaming it on terrans doing the same thing over and over and over again then complain that its imba not that weve(zergs) gotten so use to it that we like it when we see it because we know were going to come ahead ESPECIALLY if i kill your marines with my lings. You can still open reaper dual hellion 3 rax marine timing all of these are viable and good options but all terrans want to do the same thing over and over..... if i were to 14 hatch everygame why not 1 rax expand? into 2 base timing push So dont blame IMBA blame ur strategy
I would argue that Terran plays out much more linearly and than other races by nature and design.
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Im getting kind of sick of watching this abusive mass muta style zergs are leaning towards, its quite boring to watch, i was impressed by dong at first but now i see hes kind of a 1 trick pony, but terrans dont really have a good answer for it.
Like yoou never really have to engage directly with mutas they are faster than pretty much anything terran has and their is always gonna be holes somewhere in your base or your army positioning where they can do damage. With someone who has good muta control its pretty hard to stop =/
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No, but when 1 race has to constantly attack and the other race figures out how to defend all their timing attacks with taking minimal damage, over time the defending race will have a clear advantage because the attacking race will slowly run out of options.
How does that not make sense?
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On June 23 2011 21:24 drox22 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:19 Pajegetc wrote:On June 23 2011 21:15 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:On June 23 2011 21:10 drox22 wrote:On June 23 2011 21:06 tomatriedes wrote:On June 23 2011 21:02 FatalT wrote:
Korean terrans have been superior in multitasking and control, now that Korean zergs are catching up problems with zvt is starting 2 get obvious imo. Mutalingbling is awesome, infestor/bl is awesome.. so hard to play vs z now'a'days Dude, how many places in the last GSL semi-finals were filled by terrans? And who won the last MLG? Terran's doing more than fine at the moment. Hold on a second. 1 terran in the top8 of mlg 1 terran in the top8 of dreamhack Terran also had the lowest win percentage at MLG. Also the lowest win percentage in the NASL. And the reason terran was dominating the super tournament was because most players who participated were terran. Terran is not doing fine right now at all, Zerg is dominating the ZvT match up in pretty much every tournament. Yes ZERG is op -.- (not) Terrans are losing because all they want to do is a 2 rax bunker push which is so easy to deny without losing any drones so yes lets blame Zergs being OP not the fact that terrans are all doing the same thing when it clearly fails vs a great zerg....... Cause you have to put pressure on early or else they drone and own you. Every form of harass is completely figured out while any attack you might try to do, gets counterattacked, or mutas of gg destroy your whole base. Yeah that's the thing, over time zerg will get better and better at defending terran attacks and drops, etc... it's going to get harder and harder for terran to beat zerg, zerg if played right can be almost unbeatable, I can't say the same about terran or protoss, they are both very limited races, zerg just doesn't seem to have a limit. '
LOL we have limits its called our larva...... we make ONE mistake you win...... even with that huge ball of mutas marines can easly take hem out with one mistake.... if we miss a larva inject we can lose the game to a push. how are we not limited. if anything every race is limited to what the person can do DRG is a beast and outplayed MMA and now the game is imba lol
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It's kind of insane how people get after some people win a few games  Like Alicia winning a few games in Code A/GSTL and people started saying "HOLY SHIT THIS GUY IS THE BEST EVERRRRR" eg; beating Nestea and Losira in GSTL and everyone saying he has the best PvZ in the world when in reality they both basically killed themselves and PvZ is Alicia's weakest matchup by quite a margin.. Same thing with MMA, Bomber, DRG and a few others.
They're obviously all very very good, but it's just kinda funny how crazy people go after only seeing relatively few games compared to players like Nestea/MC/MVP etc.
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▲Main Team▲ Pt ▼Anti Team▼ Pt
Anypro 0 Curious 0
DongRaeGu 0 GanZi 0
hehehehe
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On June 23 2011 21:22 MinoMino wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:16 Mortal wrote:On June 23 2011 21:15 MinoMino wrote:DRG SC2 bonjwa in the making. Excellent day for my FPL, with both Alicia and DRG. Was calling an Alicia 3-kill and DRG reverse AK, so I guess I wasn't too far off. ... stop jumping to bonjwa status... and guineapig didn't do anything right? What do you mean. I said I was wrong with what I was calling, didn't I? Jumping to bonjwa status? What's that supposed to mean? You're confusing me.
He shares the same sentiment I do, that whenever a new player who is even halfway decent shows up, everyone jumps all over his bandwagon and screams "FUTURE BONJWA!!" No, DRG isn't even close. Bonjwa is the absolute highest level. Bonjwas are few and far between. DRG isn't any better than NesTea, MC, MVP or any other progamer at the highest level of SC2 so far. If you're calling DRG a future bonjwa, you have to call all of the above future bonjwas too, which is just false.
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On June 23 2011 21:27 karpo wrote:
Baneling bombs are sweet. I really think they can be used more than they are today too. Now they are used to own mineral lines or marine blobs moving out to attack.
Why not flank with a couple of banelings and burrow for when the terran retreats back? Should be pretty good, hoping we'll see that out of some of the best (DRG/Nestea/Losira) in the future.
That baneling flank is actually a great idea! I'd like to see it too
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EPT
