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On June 23 2011 21:30 RPR_Tempest wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:22 MinoMino wrote:On June 23 2011 21:16 Mortal wrote:On June 23 2011 21:15 MinoMino wrote:DRG SC2 bonjwa in the making. Excellent day for my FPL, with both Alicia and DRG. Was calling an Alicia 3-kill and DRG reverse AK, so I guess I wasn't too far off.  ... stop jumping to bonjwa status... and guineapig didn't do anything right? What do you mean. I said I was wrong with what I was calling, didn't I? Jumping to bonjwa status? What's that supposed to mean? You're confusing me. He shares the same sentiment I do, that whenever a new player who is even halfway decent shows up, everyone jumps all over his bandwagon and screams "FUTURE BONJWA!!" No, DRG isn't even close. Bonjwa is the absolute highest level. Bonjwas are few and far between. DRG isn't any better than NesTea, MC, MVP or any other progamer at the highest level of SC2 so far. If you're calling DRG a future bonjwa, you have to call all of the above future bonjwas too, which is just false.
I like they guy and I've been rooting for him ever since he first impressed me, and I'd like for him to achieve bonjwa status at some point. That's all I meant by my comment, is that wrong? You're taking this way to seriously.
And no, how would calling DRG a future bonjwa automatically call all the other players future bonjwa as well? If I see a lot more potential in a player than another, even though the other might be performing better, have more experience and better achievements, does in no way mean that anything I think the potential player will become will be automatically matched by the other.
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On June 23 2011 21:35 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:33 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:On June 23 2011 21:26 drox22 wrote:On June 23 2011 21:23 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:On June 23 2011 21:18 drox22 wrote:On June 23 2011 21:15 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:On June 23 2011 21:10 drox22 wrote:On June 23 2011 21:06 tomatriedes wrote:On June 23 2011 21:02 FatalT wrote:
Korean terrans have been superior in multitasking and control, now that Korean zergs are catching up problems with zvt is starting 2 get obvious imo. Mutalingbling is awesome, infestor/bl is awesome.. so hard to play vs z now'a'days Dude, how many places in the last GSL semi-finals were filled by terrans? And who won the last MLG? Terran's doing more than fine at the moment. Hold on a second. 1 terran in the top8 of mlg 1 terran in the top8 of dreamhack Terran also had the lowest win percentage at MLG. Also the lowest win percentage in the NASL. And the reason terran was dominating the super tournament was because most players who participated were terran. Terran is not doing fine right now at all, Zerg is dominating the ZvT match up in pretty much every tournament. Yes ZERG is op -.- (not) Terrans are losing because all they want to do is a 2 rax bunker push which is so easy to deny without losing any drones so yes lets blame Zergs being OP not the fact that terrans are all doing the same thing when it clearly fails vs a great zerg....... So are you blaming terrans for pressure expand builds now aswell? it's the best thing you can do against zerg, if you don't pressure zerg you lose automatically. Im not blaming pressure builds im blaming it on terrans doing the same thing over and over and over again then complain that its imba not that weve(zergs) gotten so use to it that we like it when we see it because we know were going to come ahead ESPECIALLY if i kill your marines with my lings. You can still open reaper dual hellion 3 rax marine timing all of these are viable and good options but all terrans want to do the same thing over and over..... if i were to 14 hatch everygame why not 1 rax expand? into 2 base timing push So dont blame IMBA blame ur strategy because if you 15 hatch and I 1 rax expand there is no way that I'm going to win if you know when my timing push is coming. Hence why I said zerg is getting better and better at holding of timing attacks and pushes which in the future will make them almost unbeatable, trust me. why would i trust you this game is out for less than a year and your crying over something that is probably bais.... and why cant you win? see our telling yourself its hopeless before the match begins and were imba....how about you use things like GHOST RAVENS ( imagen a good seeker missle hit..... mutas = owend.) so stop screaming imba and try new things thats all im saying you complaing about imba makes you look bad.... Not that I agree with the person you're arguing with, but Ravens are just terrible. People really need to stop saying, "Well why doesn't anyone use Ravens? Try them out!" Guess what, Terrans already know where Ravens fit - they don't. They are entirely too expensive gas-wise, needing a Tech Lab on the Starport (meaning if you get one early it really hurts). Not only that, SM is a shitload of energy and it's a terrible spell. If you can't dodge a SM you are just microing absolutely horribly.
Funny, I recall this is the same thing zerg says about nydus and ultras, yet terrans all go "well, you don't see the true potential, like I do, but I play terran so [...]".
I'm not going to say if it works or not, but the thought of baneling/ling/muta against a siegeline of tanks with marines is that the banelings push marines back and muta wreck the tanks. Imagine if a raven were to shoot a seeker missile to the mutas, it would either require intense micro to pick out the correct muta, or to just fly away with all of them (easier option).
Of course, ideal cases where A is happening and not B, and stuff C is not required and yadda yadda would make some option dominate.
.. Just try it.
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On June 23 2011 21:35 Minaegi wrote:
People should really go watch sCfou vs DRG if they missed it. That throws any balance whine out the window and complaints about "DRG style unbeatable". sC is the best TvZ player in Korea and not many zergs have an answer for his relentless aggressive style. As MVP said MONTHS ago the strength of T is making sure both players stay on no more than 3 bases so that the advantage of mules increase dramatically
MVP also said terran is the weakest race. And sc lost so i dont know what your point is. Also i dont think anyone is arguing that early game aggresion isnt effective against zerg (thats what sc does) but if the zerg holds it off and gets into the late game with that mass muta style terran doesnt really have a good answer.
They move out, all their scv's die, leave a thor or 2 behind? magic box lose all your scv's. Mass repair on turrets in the mineral line? take out production facilities and addons instead. Unless you want to be way behind by spending all your money on defenses your going to have tons of holes in your defenses and with the way mutas work how fast they are etc its so easy for them to just poke in do some damage and get out and there is absolutely nothing terran can do about it. I dont play terran and i never have but i see this as a huge problem in TVZ and it actualy frusterates me to watch TVZ because it seems like there is no good answer to mass mutas that never engage.
And once mutas are out terran harass becomes 10x less effective so , zerg gains harass as terran loses it almost completely.
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On June 23 2011 21:33 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:29 cheesemaster wrote:
Im getting kind of sick of watching this abusive mass muta style zergs are leaning towards, its quite boring to watch, i was impressed by dong at first but now i see hes kind of a 1 trick pony, but terrans dont really have a good answer for it.
Like yoou never really have to engage directly with mutas they are faster than pretty much anything terran has and their is always gonna be holes somewhere in your base or your army positioning where they can do damage. With someone who has good muta control its pretty hard to stop =/ This. I wanna see at least some games where the terran corners mutas and really own them. Atm it's more or less only badly control mutas that die, nothing can catch up or really catch them.
Just watch sC vs DRG.
The best counter to muta harass is force the zerg to use his muta in defense, like sC did.
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On June 23 2011 21:39 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:34 trancey wrote:
you realize like every high ranked korean terran has insane apm and micro in order to deal with whatever zergs have to throw at them to counter marines, you talk about all these openers but pros aren't using them because in reality 2 rax bunker openers has always been the most effective opener because you're forcing zergs to get lings opposed to drones, the whole point of any terran opener in TvZ is forcing a zerg to stop making drones and making units instead, alot of these other openers in my eyes require mistakes made by zerg and if a zerg could easily poke and scout these (theres plenty of ways to scout a terran opener), hence why a terran is forced to think 2 rax is the best opener since it can't be initially scouted.
I think you should go PLAY TERRAN and play high rated zergs and deal with it. I'm currently race changing because TvZ is such a frustrating match up considering I don't see myself getting better at terran because I'm limited by my APM. I can't exactly pull 300 apm out of nowhere thus I rather play a race that requires less speed out of my micro -.- So you would want zerg weaken to balance your game but put the korean T's at a huge advantage? seems that would kill sc2 as an esport... AND Race changing would do almost nothing because ZvP can be argued as imba towards a good P (although im sure someone going to say PvZ is imba towards Z) but ask july and idra how the feel over it im sure theyll disagree lol :D
no I personally think professional terran is fine, because terran can be maximized at it's best when you can play it at the highest level.
a mediocre or casual terran player though, in reality, at all lower levels, has a rough time playing this game. I know more casual players who switch from playing terran to protoss or zerg because they find terran players as easy opponents. There's a reason why MLG stats don't lie that Terrans had the worst showing at the tournament besides MMA, at the lower levels, its just incredibly hard to have that kind of APM to be good enough to defeat players who don't have to spam micro or have some kind of godly APM to maximize the effectiveness of their units.
I don't want to change anything about zerg either, I'm just complaining because there's answer to help the casuals and fans because in reality it's much easier to magic box mutas than it is to marine spread versus banelings, don't you agree? I think every casual player should just play protoss and enjoy the easy mechanics it employs.
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MVP said terran is the weakest on the big gsl maps only, obviously on ladder T is by far the strongest but thats not really relevant to this. and sC lost because DRG played better by a tiny bit and won a battle with less army supply than the terran (zerg QQers take note)
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On June 23 2011 21:35 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:33 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:On June 23 2011 21:26 drox22 wrote:On June 23 2011 21:23 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:On June 23 2011 21:18 drox22 wrote:On June 23 2011 21:15 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:On June 23 2011 21:10 drox22 wrote:On June 23 2011 21:06 tomatriedes wrote:On June 23 2011 21:02 FatalT wrote:
Korean terrans have been superior in multitasking and control, now that Korean zergs are catching up problems with zvt is starting 2 get obvious imo. Mutalingbling is awesome, infestor/bl is awesome.. so hard to play vs z now'a'days Dude, how many places in the last GSL semi-finals were filled by terrans? And who won the last MLG? Terran's doing more than fine at the moment. Hold on a second. 1 terran in the top8 of mlg 1 terran in the top8 of dreamhack Terran also had the lowest win percentage at MLG. Also the lowest win percentage in the NASL. And the reason terran was dominating the super tournament was because most players who participated were terran. Terran is not doing fine right now at all, Zerg is dominating the ZvT match up in pretty much every tournament. Yes ZERG is op -.- (not) Terrans are losing because all they want to do is a 2 rax bunker push which is so easy to deny without losing any drones so yes lets blame Zergs being OP not the fact that terrans are all doing the same thing when it clearly fails vs a great zerg....... So are you blaming terrans for pressure expand builds now aswell? it's the best thing you can do against zerg, if you don't pressure zerg you lose automatically. Im not blaming pressure builds im blaming it on terrans doing the same thing over and over and over again then complain that its imba not that weve(zergs) gotten so use to it that we like it when we see it because we know were going to come ahead ESPECIALLY if i kill your marines with my lings. You can still open reaper dual hellion 3 rax marine timing all of these are viable and good options but all terrans want to do the same thing over and over..... if i were to 14 hatch everygame why not 1 rax expand? into 2 base timing push So dont blame IMBA blame ur strategy because if you 15 hatch and I 1 rax expand there is no way that I'm going to win if you know when my timing push is coming. Hence why I said zerg is getting better and better at holding of timing attacks and pushes which in the future will make them almost unbeatable, trust me. why would i trust you this game is out for less than a year and your crying over something that is probably bais.... and why cant you win? see our telling yourself its hopeless before the match begins and were imba....how about you use things like GHOST RAVENS ( imagen a good seeker missle hit..... mutas = owend.) so stop screaming imba and try new things thats all im saying you complaing about imba makes you look bad.... Not that I agree with the person you're arguing with, but Ravens are just terrible. People really need to stop saying, "Well why doesn't anyone use Ravens? Try them out!" Guess what, Terrans already know where Ravens fit - they don't. They are entirely too expensive gas-wise, needing a Tech Lab on the Starport (meaning if you get one early it really hurts). Not only that, SM is a shitload of energy and it's a terrible spell. If you can't dodge a SM you are just microing absolutely horribly.
Im going to say one thing ...... science vessel..... (instead of irradiate they have seeker missle ) because irradiate would be op just like dark swarm would be. Its not about microing away its about buying time for your marines or thors to come back a mutalisk player wont stay when a missle if following them (which i belive is a 8 sec follow before they blow up) thats 8 sec where your marines can come back a defend and if your moving out to attack and you complain about the counter attack then you should go play war 3 or something since counter attacking has been accentual for zerg since sc to bw and now in sc2 and will be for as long as zerg have a weak set of units where they cant face an army head on without tricks like Hold position lurker or burred blings.
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On June 23 2011 21:40 kusto wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:31 ChickenLips wrote:
It's funny how these LR threads always turn to shit after the matches are done. Not that they're not shitty inbetween. Today we found out that Thors should actually kill off about 20 mutas, or else they're UP. Also reading terrible questions/advice regarding the pro-gamers who are playing ("why is Ganzi not dropping like MMA?") I'd really like to know in what league those people are who are stuck in that stupid idea of counters and OP/UP units...
well in between these's the good old
SLAYERSSSS HWAITINGGGG OMGGGG
which kinda thins out the shit silver players are filling LR threads with
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On June 23 2011 21:42 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:33 karpo wrote:On June 23 2011 21:29 cheesemaster wrote:
Im getting kind of sick of watching this abusive mass muta style zergs are leaning towards, its quite boring to watch, i was impressed by dong at first but now i see hes kind of a 1 trick pony, but terrans dont really have a good answer for it.
Like yoou never really have to engage directly with mutas they are faster than pretty much anything terran has and their is always gonna be holes somewhere in your base or your army positioning where they can do damage. With someone who has good muta control its pretty hard to stop =/ This. I wanna see at least some games where the terran corners mutas and really own them. Atm it's more or less only badly control mutas that die, nothing can catch up or really catch them. Just watch sC vs DRG. The best counter to muta harass is force the zerg to use his muta in defense, like sC did.
I think that sure that works in certain situations but if they see that your moving across the map they can get in your base and do damage (pretty much forcing you to turn around or lose half your scv's) and if you dont turn around mutas are so fast they can do damage in your base and still get back to defend in time. Especially when your moving across the map with thors tank marine or something like that its pretty slow.
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On June 23 2011 21:42 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:33 karpo wrote:On June 23 2011 21:29 cheesemaster wrote:
Im getting kind of sick of watching this abusive mass muta style zergs are leaning towards, its quite boring to watch, i was impressed by dong at first but now i see hes kind of a 1 trick pony, but terrans dont really have a good answer for it.
Like yoou never really have to engage directly with mutas they are faster than pretty much anything terran has and their is always gonna be holes somewhere in your base or your army positioning where they can do damage. With someone who has good muta control its pretty hard to stop =/ This. I wanna see at least some games where the terran corners mutas and really own them. Atm it's more or less only badly control mutas that die, nothing can catch up or really catch them. Just watch sC vs DRG. The best counter to muta harass is force the zerg to use his muta in defense, like sC did.
Yeah and SC lost the seriest. I really don't see where you are going with this. Do it like SC and lose guys!
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On June 23 2011 21:42 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:33 karpo wrote:On June 23 2011 21:29 cheesemaster wrote:
Im getting kind of sick of watching this abusive mass muta style zergs are leaning towards, its quite boring to watch, i was impressed by dong at first but now i see hes kind of a 1 trick pony, but terrans dont really have a good answer for it.
Like yoou never really have to engage directly with mutas they are faster than pretty much anything terran has and their is always gonna be holes somewhere in your base or your army positioning where they can do damage. With someone who has good muta control its pretty hard to stop =/ This. I wanna see at least some games where the terran corners mutas and really own them. Atm it's more or less only badly control mutas that die, nothing can catch up or really catch them. Just watch sC vs DRG. The best counter to muta harass is force the zerg to use his muta in defense, like sC did.
You guys keep saying that. SC lost to DRG in that particular series if you did not watch it. If a player is doing excactly what the Zerg players suggest and still loses,how does that validate your point???
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On June 23 2011 21:45 drox22 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:42 MrCon wrote:On June 23 2011 21:33 karpo wrote:On June 23 2011 21:29 cheesemaster wrote:
Im getting kind of sick of watching this abusive mass muta style zergs are leaning towards, its quite boring to watch, i was impressed by dong at first but now i see hes kind of a 1 trick pony, but terrans dont really have a good answer for it.
Like yoou never really have to engage directly with mutas they are faster than pretty much anything terran has and their is always gonna be holes somewhere in your base or your army positioning where they can do damage. With someone who has good muta control its pretty hard to stop =/ This. I wanna see at least some games where the terran corners mutas and really own them. Atm it's more or less only badly control mutas that die, nothing can catch up or really catch them. Just watch sC vs DRG. The best counter to muta harass is force the zerg to use his muta in defense, like sC did. Yeah and SC lost the seriest. I really don't see where you are going with this. Do it like SC and lose guys!
it was 3-2 and DRG played better? what more is there to say? sC didn't even lose the deciding game because of mutas
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On June 23 2011 21:43 trancey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:39 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:On June 23 2011 21:34 trancey wrote:
you realize like every high ranked korean terran has insane apm and micro in order to deal with whatever zergs have to throw at them to counter marines, you talk about all these openers but pros aren't using them because in reality 2 rax bunker openers has always been the most effective opener because you're forcing zergs to get lings opposed to drones, the whole point of any terran opener in TvZ is forcing a zerg to stop making drones and making units instead, alot of these other openers in my eyes require mistakes made by zerg and if a zerg could easily poke and scout these (theres plenty of ways to scout a terran opener), hence why a terran is forced to think 2 rax is the best opener since it can't be initially scouted.
I think you should go PLAY TERRAN and play high rated zergs and deal with it. I'm currently race changing because TvZ is such a frustrating match up considering I don't see myself getting better at terran because I'm limited by my APM. I can't exactly pull 300 apm out of nowhere thus I rather play a race that requires less speed out of my micro -.- So you would want zerg weaken to balance your game but put the korean T's at a huge advantage? seems that would kill sc2 as an esport... AND Race changing would do almost nothing because ZvP can be argued as imba towards a good P (although im sure someone going to say PvZ is imba towards Z) but ask july and idra how the feel over it im sure theyll disagree lol :D no I personally think professional terran is fine, because terran can be maximized at it's best when you can play it at the highest level. a mediocre or casual terran player though, in reality, at all lower levels, has a rough time playing this game. I know more casual players who switch from playing terran to protoss or zerg because they find terran players as easy opponents. There's a reason why MLG stats don't lie that Terrans had the worst showing at the tournament besides MMA, at the lower levels, its just incredibly hard to have that kind of APM to be good enough to defeat players who don't have to spam micro or have some kind of godly APM to maximize the effectiveness of their units. I don't want to change anything about zerg either, I'm just complaining because there's answer to help the casuals and fans because in reality it's much easier to magic box mutas than it is to marine spread versus banelings, don't you agree? I think every casual player should just play protoss and enjoy the easy mechanics it employs.
Yes i agree magic box is easy and spreading for blings is hard but a magic box sucks with marine support just like bling suck with tank support DONT YOU AGREE??????
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People need to stop using LR threads to grief their ladder experience
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On June 23 2011 21:46 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:43 trancey wrote:On June 23 2011 21:39 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:On June 23 2011 21:34 trancey wrote:
you realize like every high ranked korean terran has insane apm and micro in order to deal with whatever zergs have to throw at them to counter marines, you talk about all these openers but pros aren't using them because in reality 2 rax bunker openers has always been the most effective opener because you're forcing zergs to get lings opposed to drones, the whole point of any terran opener in TvZ is forcing a zerg to stop making drones and making units instead, alot of these other openers in my eyes require mistakes made by zerg and if a zerg could easily poke and scout these (theres plenty of ways to scout a terran opener), hence why a terran is forced to think 2 rax is the best opener since it can't be initially scouted.
I think you should go PLAY TERRAN and play high rated zergs and deal with it. I'm currently race changing because TvZ is such a frustrating match up considering I don't see myself getting better at terran because I'm limited by my APM. I can't exactly pull 300 apm out of nowhere thus I rather play a race that requires less speed out of my micro -.- So you would want zerg weaken to balance your game but put the korean T's at a huge advantage? seems that would kill sc2 as an esport... AND Race changing would do almost nothing because ZvP can be argued as imba towards a good P (although im sure someone going to say PvZ is imba towards Z) but ask july and idra how the feel over it im sure theyll disagree lol :D no I personally think professional terran is fine, because terran can be maximized at it's best when you can play it at the highest level. a mediocre or casual terran player though, in reality, at all lower levels, has a rough time playing this game. I know more casual players who switch from playing terran to protoss or zerg because they find terran players as easy opponents. There's a reason why MLG stats don't lie that Terrans had the worst showing at the tournament besides MMA, at the lower levels, its just incredibly hard to have that kind of APM to be good enough to defeat players who don't have to spam micro or have some kind of godly APM to maximize the effectiveness of their units. I don't want to change anything about zerg either, I'm just complaining because there's answer to help the casuals and fans because in reality it's much easier to magic box mutas than it is to marine spread versus banelings, don't you agree? I think every casual player should just play protoss and enjoy the easy mechanics it employs. Yes i agree magic box is easy and spreading for blings is hard but a magic box sucks with marine support just like bling suck with tank support DONT YOU AGREE??????
Edit nvm
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On June 23 2011 21:47 Itsmedudeman wrote:
People need to stop using LR threads to grief their ladder experience
Everyone should be forced to play random on ladder.
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On June 23 2011 21:32 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:15 Fubi wrote:On June 23 2011 21:03 Qikz wrote:
Damn. DRG's mutalisks are really annoying.
I don't know what MMA could have done there. more turrets maybe? I can't think of any valid strat that can counter DRG's style as long as DRG doesn't make a big blunder. DRG seems to have early terran pressure figured out. He then gets a early 3rd up. The deciding point i think is here. If you can't kill his third and keep him from getting it, the game is pretty much over imo. He is just able to get so many Mutas with 3 bases that they can one shot turrets, or a random fly by the mineral line will kill 4-5 SCV's every time. The only thing that can really counter Mutas is Marines. Thors I feel they're too immobile, and can't mass produce fast enough. And to counter that, DRG just gets mass banes+lings, and trade army with the terran. Terran can't reproduce as fast as the Zerg, so DRG just slowly overwhelm the Terran at this point. But i'm no professional gamer so I'm sure one of them will eventually figure out a way to counter DRG's style eventually. Hum, DRG doesn't take a quick 3rd, actually he takes the slowst 3rd of all zergs I watch. But he makes a very fast 3rd hatch in base. When he finally takes his 3rd, if he's at risk of losing it he just bring back his drones without losing them. And also he put spines. The problem with what MMA did is that he pushed, knowing there is a big flock of mutas already, bringing everything. He had to keep a thor and some marines around it between his 3rd and main (but in his main) so he can defend mutas without crumbling like he did and stay stable. Here he never stabilized against mutas, which is terrible (and it happens to me all the time, I hate mutas :D)
Good catch. But from MMA's pov, it's really hard to judge how many units he needs to bring. If he leaves too much at his base, DRG usually will just use his mutas to kill the T's offensive units, and this usually works because he uses his full army vs your partial army. The problem with post 3 base is that the flock of Mutas gets so big that you have to leave a LOT behind to defend. But when you leave so much behind, you risk having your main offensive army getting overruned as we've seen in so many games against DRG. But if you don't, you risk losing all your production facilities and workers.
It's definitely NOT an impossible scenario for the Terrans against DRG's style. It's just really hard, with T always having to be the one taking the risks and the advantage being with the Zerg most of the time.
T basically has to make the right decision from three hard choices
1) Stay and defend and not push out. Usually never works as you can't really out macro and out produce a good Zerg of DRG's caliber
2) Push out with all your army. Zerg reacts by sacrificing his 3rd, flying with mutas and killing your workers and production facilities, then goes back and clean up your army. Zerg usually comes up ahead here.
3) Leave a good enough force to deal with 12-15 mutas then push out. Zerg reacts by flying Mutas back, grouping up with his main force, then zerging the T's offence. Trading armies, even if even-trade, Zerg can remake his army a lot quicker therefore winning the subsequent attacks. Or if T doesn't attack anymore, Zerg expands and outmacros.
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On June 23 2011 21:48 cheesemaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:46 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:On June 23 2011 21:43 trancey wrote:On June 23 2011 21:39 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:On June 23 2011 21:34 trancey wrote:
you realize like every high ranked korean terran has insane apm and micro in order to deal with whatever zergs have to throw at them to counter marines, you talk about all these openers but pros aren't using them because in reality 2 rax bunker openers has always been the most effective opener because you're forcing zergs to get lings opposed to drones, the whole point of any terran opener in TvZ is forcing a zerg to stop making drones and making units instead, alot of these other openers in my eyes require mistakes made by zerg and if a zerg could easily poke and scout these (theres plenty of ways to scout a terran opener), hence why a terran is forced to think 2 rax is the best opener since it can't be initially scouted.
I think you should go PLAY TERRAN and play high rated zergs and deal with it. I'm currently race changing because TvZ is such a frustrating match up considering I don't see myself getting better at terran because I'm limited by my APM. I can't exactly pull 300 apm out of nowhere thus I rather play a race that requires less speed out of my micro -.- So you would want zerg weaken to balance your game but put the korean T's at a huge advantage? seems that would kill sc2 as an esport... AND Race changing would do almost nothing because ZvP can be argued as imba towards a good P (although im sure someone going to say PvZ is imba towards Z) but ask july and idra how the feel over it im sure theyll disagree lol :D no I personally think professional terran is fine, because terran can be maximized at it's best when you can play it at the highest level. a mediocre or casual terran player though, in reality, at all lower levels, has a rough time playing this game. I know more casual players who switch from playing terran to protoss or zerg because they find terran players as easy opponents. There's a reason why MLG stats don't lie that Terrans had the worst showing at the tournament besides MMA, at the lower levels, its just incredibly hard to have that kind of APM to be good enough to defeat players who don't have to spam micro or have some kind of godly APM to maximize the effectiveness of their units. I don't want to change anything about zerg either, I'm just complaining because there's answer to help the casuals and fans because in reality it's much easier to magic box mutas than it is to marine spread versus banelings, don't you agree? I think every casual player should just play protoss and enjoy the easy mechanics it employs. Yes i agree magic box is easy and spreading for blings is hard but a magic box sucks with marine support just like bling suck with tank support DONT YOU AGREE?????? I still see banelings do fine with tank support i rarely if ever see thors do fine with magic box , so no i dont agree.
the thor isn't there to do damage... there's reasons why people only go 1-2 thors... they're there to keep the mutas away and stop them from picking off tanks because of the limited range of marines
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On June 23 2011 21:49 tomatriedes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 21:47 Itsmedudeman wrote:
People need to stop using LR threads to grief their ladder experience Everyone should be forced to play random on ladder.
LOL good idea but then people will say i hate spawing z/t/p they are hard lol vs z/t/p because people like to complain
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On June 23 2011 21:15 MinoMino wrote:DRG SC2 bonjwa in the making. Excellent day for my FPL, with both Alicia and DRG. Was calling an Alicia 3-kill and DRG reverse AK, so I guess I wasn't too far off.
On June 23 2011 20:35 asperger wrote:
I'm just waiting for the "I think DRG could be a bonjwa, guys" discussion.
Motherfucker.
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EPT
