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DoomsVille
Canada4885 Posts
On June 06 2011 13:57 Kamuy wrote: By the way has anyone asked the question, "If PU was 5-2 in the league, would he still pull this disappearing stunt?" I think everyone realizes he obviously would show up if that were the case... | ||
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bennyaus
Australia1833 Posts
On June 06 2011 13:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote: If he thought he made it clear, after the first week or two or them trying to get a hold of him during match time you'd think he speak up and make it really clear? I do not understand why you try and defend him on this? if NASL was to take any blame in this its easily under 10% and thats being generous.... I just think that NASL is at fault too, and I don't like the idea that some group of nerds is going to go and try and wreck Painuser's career over what could've just been a miscommunication (we don't have enough evidence to suggest otherwise). Don't get me wrong, I'm highly disappointed in his behaviour  Things aren't as simple as other forum posters lead you to believe though. Most people are, in general, not as thoughtless as to just stop showing up to something they've committed to. For all we know, PU could've been travelling to Columbus when they tried to contact him and was on a plane or had his phone/email switched off for a day. Remember this was recorded a few days ago. | ||
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reneg
United States859 Posts
On June 06 2011 13:58 Necro)Phagist( wrote: If he thought he made it clear, after the first week or two or them trying to get a hold of him during match time you'd think he speak up and make it really clear? I do not understand why you try and defend him on this? if NASL was to take any blame in this its easily under 10% and thats being generous.... iirc, what he said was that he'd be stepping back from competitive gaming, not, "GEOFF, i will be removing myself from NASL." so i agree, unless he makes it explicitly clear, NASL shouldn't just drop him. What if he said he was scaling back, NASL dropped him, but NASL was the only tournament he was going to keep playing? We'd all be up in arms about NASL just throwing players out of the league. As it is, i feel like you need to be extremely specific, and until you are, it should be assumed that you will at least ATTEMPT to make your match. Not flake out and bail. Edit: On June 06 2011 13:59 bennyaus wrote: I just think that NASL is at fault too, and I don't like the idea that some group of nerds is going to go and try and wreck Painuser's career over what could've just been a miscommunication (we don't have enough evidence to suggest otherwise). I feel like that's the issue. We don't have his story. He's busy not even bothering to tell everyone it. If he hadn't fallen off the face of the earth and just started shunning the NASL, there's no reason to think that he'd let geoff call him out like that on NASL. he's basically given up caring about the league, and SHOULD suffer the consequences of it. As for lacking evidence, NASL has made it abundantly clear that they go to extreme measures to try to contact players. No other player has been like, "NASL forgot to remind me that i had a game..." I think the league's been handling this in an extremely professional fashion. | ||
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Kamuy
United States212 Posts
On June 06 2011 13:58 DoomsVille wrote: I think everyone realizes he obviously would show up if that were the case... All the more reason to shun him. | ||
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MrDudeMan
Canada973 Posts
On June 06 2011 13:51 Defacer wrote: I'm sorry, I have to absolutely disagree. If you hire a contractor to show up to work, you expect them to show up. The onus is not on the organizer to run around every week to remind them of them responsibilities, make them a sack lunch, wipe their ass etc. analogies work both ways. For example lets say your throwing this huge barbecue and need 500 burgers. You place an order at your local burger shop and give them what date the order should be ready by and when you will pick it up. You don't bother to check on the order (and you shouldnt have to in a perfect world) as the date gets closer, and on the day your supposed to pick them up the burgers aren't ready because someone forgot to send the order through. Is it your fault? No, but you should have checked prior to this to make sure everything was perfect because at the end of the day the burger company doesn't lose much, but your barbecue is ruined. | ||
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Necro)Phagist(
Canada6660 Posts
On June 06 2011 13:59 bennyaus wrote: I just think that NASL is at fault too, and I don't like the idea that some group of nerds is going to go and try and wreck Painuser's career over what could've just been a miscommunication (we don't have enough evidence to suggest otherwise). I disagree, we have plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise, a simply miscommunication would have been easily resolved after the first week, maybe the second week.... but this is now the third week with no response from PU. As I said before I don't see how this is NASL's fault at all. to quote myself in an earleir post "Does your boss call you every night to see if you are going to show up the next day? No he doesn't cuz its your damn responsibility to show up or call in and say you won't be showing up,,," I do agree that his career shouldn't be ruined, but something should be done about his terribly unprofessional actions... | ||
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ven
Germany332 Posts
On June 06 2011 13:33 Necro)Phagist( wrote: They tried to get ahold of him, as Incontrol said in his speech, by phone/e-mail and even calling up people close to him to try and hunt him down. The blame is 100% on painuser Ya, I know and of course it's entirely PainUser's fault, I'm not saying anything different but why didn't they address it sooner if he hasn't even been responding for weeks. Just award the W/O beforehand and don't keep everyone waiting. The organizers should be on top of this kind of things. | ||
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reneg
United States859 Posts
On June 06 2011 14:02 MrDudeMan wrote: analogies work both ways. For example lets say your throwing this huge barbecue and need 500 burgers. You place an order at your local burger shop and give them what date the order should be ready by and when you will pick it up. You don't bother to check on the order (and you shouldnt have to in a perfect world) as the date gets closer, and on the day your supposed to pick them up the burgers aren't ready because someone forgot to send the order through. Is it your fault? No, but you should have checked prior to this to make sure everything was perfect because at the end of the day the burger company doesn't lose much, but your barbecue is ruined. In your analogy, we (the audience) are the people buying burgers. the NASL is the company, and painuser is the guy who specifically forgot to buy the burgers, after getting called by the owner of the store a dozen times reminding him to do it. In your analogy, PU would be fired. Which is apparently what happened, since they set his standings to 0-7 and wiped him of all his wins Edit: I also like this guy's response to the situation better: On June 06 2011 14:10 Defacer wrote: Well, the NASL has been asking about their fucking PainBurger for weeks now and no one is returning their calls. | ||
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Necro)Phagist(
Canada6660 Posts
On June 06 2011 14:02 MrDudeMan wrote: analogies work both ways. For example lets say your throwing this huge barbecue and need 500 burgers. You place an order at your local burger shop and give them what date the order should be ready by and when you will pick it up. You don't bother to check on the order (and you shouldnt have to in a perfect world) as the date gets closer, and on the day your supposed to pick them up the burgers aren't ready because someone forgot to send the order through. Is it your fault? No, but you should have checked prior to this to make sure everything was perfect because at the end of the day the burger company doesn't lose much, but your barbecue is ruined. Thats a terrible analogy for your point... and the burger company does lose a lot its called PR and they are known for not being able to get their shit done, no ones going to buy from them... your analogy is full of fail. its the burger companies fault 100%(And you admit that) so I don't really see how you're trying to argue against the other analogy? | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On June 06 2011 14:05 ven wrote: Ya, I know and of course it's entirely PainUser's fault, I'm not saying anything different but why didn't they address it sooner if he hasn't even been responding for weeks. Just award the W/O beforehand and don't keep everyone waiting. The organizers should be on top of this kind of things. American's are too decent. They waited as long as they did, hoping he would try to redeem himself. No such luck. | ||
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Necro)Phagist(
Canada6660 Posts
On June 06 2011 14:05 ven wrote: Ya, I know and of course it's entirely PainUser's fault, I'm not saying anything different but why didn't they address it sooner if he hasn't even been responding for weeks. Just award the W/O beforehand and don't keep everyone waiting. The organizers should be on top of this kind of things. Because they can't just assume he is not going to show? They won't to show as many matches as they can and they do want him to play his games so just assuming he is not going to show is good for no one really... | ||
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DoomsVille
Canada4885 Posts
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On June 06 2011 14:02 MrDudeMan wrote: analogies work both ways. For example lets say your throwing this huge barbecue and need 500 burgers. You place an order at your local burger shop and give them what date the order should be ready by and when you will pick it up. You don't bother to check on the order (and you shouldnt have to in a perfect world) as the date gets closer, and on the day your supposed to pick them up the burgers aren't ready because someone forgot to send the order through. Is it your fault? No, but you should have checked prior to this to make sure everything was perfect because at the end of the day the burger company doesn't lose much, but your barbecue is ruined. Well, the NASL has been asking about their fucking PainBurger for weeks now and no one is returning their calls. | ||
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Emporio
United States3069 Posts
However, once it hits three weeks in a row and there is no confirmation from the other side, it's not a matter of not being responsible in reminding the players, it is complete negligence on the player's part. Of course, given how real life works and especially how the internet works, I feel like the actual situation is not completely the way Incontrol is saying that it is, and that there is at least something that redeems Painuser to some extent. So until Painuser says something on his behalf, or this goes on for so long that it's obvious that he is trying to avoid public scrutiny, it's not possible to know for sure who to blame. If Incontrol is completely correct and unbiased in his remarks, then yes, Painuser is completely to blame. But the way real life is, you just don't know for sure. | ||
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ven
Germany332 Posts
On June 06 2011 14:09 Necro)Phagist( wrote: Because they can't just assume he is not going to show? They won't to show as many matches as they can and they do want him to play his games so just assuming he is not going to show is good for no one really... That's just my point. Why even assume anything? Ask him and make sure. If he doesn't respond, you'll have your answer just as well. | ||
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deroth
United States83 Posts
If the story turns out to be how it looks right now, as in if there won't be any "excusing" circumstances for PU that the public would accept as an explanation of his unprofessional behavior, IPL should and probably would not employ him. I can't see a respectable organization hiring a douchebag (again, barring the possibility of some sort of mitigating facts that we don't know about). A good percentage of SC2 community will see PU's behavior as repulsive enough for IPL to understand they should not be dealing with him. | ||
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Paradice
New Zealand431 Posts
On June 06 2011 14:07 reneg wrote: In your analogy, we (the audience) are the people buying burgers. the NASL is the company, and painuser is the guy who specifically forgot to buy the burgers, after getting called by the owner of the store a dozen times reminding him to do it. In your analogy, PU would be fired. Which is apparently what happened, since they set his standings to 0-7 and wiped him of all his wins Nah, they didn't need to change his standings at all. He got his 0-7 naturally. | ||
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MrDudeMan
Canada973 Posts
On June 06 2011 14:08 Necro)Phagist( wrote: Thats a terrible analogy for your point... and the burger company does lose a lot its called PR and they are known for not being able to get their shit done, no ones going to buy from them... your analogy is full of fail. its the burger companies fault 100%(And you admit that) so I don't really see how you're trying to argue against the other analogy? The point of the analogy is not to prove that it is NASL's (i.e barbecue hosts) fault that painuser (i.e the burger company) did not play the game (i.e provide the burgers) but rather that at the end of the day it is their tournament (i.e barbecue) that suffers. And that this situation could have been avoided had they checked on him 2-3 days earlier (something that should have come to mind seeing as how there have been a ton of walkovers). | ||
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bennyaus
Australia1833 Posts
This is how I see it... -Painuser says on show that he can't reschedule his games because of work and he is stepping back from gaming. Assumes that this will be taken as a fact that he can't do any more NASL. Bad assumption, but anyway.... -NASL only try to contact the player on the day of the game, when it is likely that Painuser is travelling to Columbus and on a plane or out of contact. I mean seriously, who doesn't answer their phone/email on purpose....? | ||
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Necro)Phagist(
Canada6660 Posts
On June 06 2011 14:14 ven wrote: That's just my point. Why even assume anything? Ask him and make sure. If he doesn't respond, you'll have your answer just as well. They have to assume he is going to show, thats why he joined the league to show up and play! They have the matches scheduled and it screws with everything if they just say fuck it after and cancel all his matches without getting confirmation. | ||
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