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IGN Pro League Season one - Page 27

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
1679 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 25 26 27 28 29 84 Next
If you spoil the results of the tournament, you will be banned.
Luiwtf
Profile Joined January 2011
England217 Posts
April 07 2011 03:26 GMT
#521
Looking forward to this, should be good :D.

Only thing I'm unsure about is the casters, I won't be watching anything with TotalBiscuit, as I can't listen to his voice for more than 30 seconds. HD and PainUser I've never heard cast, so I'll have to see how they do.
Shagg
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland825 Posts
April 07 2011 09:20 GMT
#522
Rofl Totalbiscuit casting no ty. Saw one of his shoutcraft vid and was enough :/
"You're a pro or you're a noob. That's life"
elhonko
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden33 Posts
April 07 2011 18:16 GMT
#523
doesnt anybody find it stange that there are no liquid guys in this league.
eehh va?
Vul
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States685 Posts
April 07 2011 18:52 GMT
#524
I think it's awkward for TB to come to this thread and argue with everyone whose critical. This is a thread which has welcomed constructive criticism for a new event. Some of us are going to think that different casters are better and are curious to hear why they weren't selected or if they turned down the invitation. That somebody thinks Day9 is a better caster than TB or that one of the players who was selected isn't that great, doesn't need to be a big deal unless those people start to respond to the criticism and make it personal.

You can't convince everyone that doesn't like you that they should by arguing about it on forums. If they already aren't a fan, you will just seem obnoxious.
Twistacles
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1327 Posts
April 07 2011 18:54 GMT
#525
Incontrol, Select, Kiwi, Machine and Idra i'd say are gonna be the top dogs.
"If you don't give a shit which gum you buy, get stride" - Tyler
TotalBiscuit
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United Kingdom5437 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-07 20:30:03
April 07 2011 19:06 GMT
#526
On April 08 2011 03:52 Vul wrote:
I think it's awkward for TB to come to this thread and argue with everyone whose critical. This is a thread which has welcomed constructive criticism for a new event. Some of us are going to think that different casters are better and are curious to hear why they weren't selected or if they turned down the invitation. That somebody thinks Day9 is a better caster than TB or that one of the players who was selected isn't that great, doesn't need to be a big deal unless those people start to respond to the criticism and make it personal.

You can't convince everyone that doesn't like you that they should by arguing about it on forums. If they already aren't a fan, you will just seem obnoxious.


This doesn't make a whole lot of sense. So you want to give feedback on your personal caster likes and dislikes but you don't want any discussion with those involved because it's 'awkward'?

I'm not really concerned about whether or not people find honesty and useful information to be 'obnoxious'. It does seem a little odd to label it that way, TL is a community where those involved heavily in the scene, whether casting, promoting, playing and organising try to get involved in the discussion, but it's not ok to discuss something you're involved in and have a lot of information about? Have I once during this thread took offence to anything said, regardless of less than tactful insinuations and occassionally downright insults of my work? Not to my knowledge. If I have though, feel free to point them out and you'll get my apologies.

As it stands however, decrying a league because of personal caster preferences doesn't seem like constructive feedback. While some make valid points about the balance between play-by-play and analysis, the majority of feedback has not contained useful information, but more subjective opinion based on personal preference, plus the whole caster thing has already been answered multiple times by Ed, Alex and myself. There will be a wider variety of casters for the second league and these casters were chosen because of their proven mainstream appeal that will help bring in new eSports fans from IGN where a highly analytical commentator would not. It's really as simple as that. I don't think it's reasonable to assume that every single tournament, especially in this particular format, is aimed squarely at the TL crowd, whose preferences are well known. The SC2 community is larger than that, much larger and it can grow even further if opportunities like this are approached in the correct manner.
CommentatorHost of SHOUTcraft Clan Wars- http://www.mlg.tv/shoutcraft
walklightwhat
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia752 Posts
April 07 2011 19:30 GMT
#527
My favourite caster is Khaldor - in German and I don't speak German, so I'm not really concerned by a caster's ability to analyze the game.

Really looking forward to this. Awesome players and casters are not a combination to nitpick and complain about.
Vul
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States685 Posts
April 07 2011 21:16 GMT
#528
This doesn't make a whole lot of sense. So you want to give feedback on your personal caster likes and dislikes but you don't want any discussion with those involved because it's 'awkward'?


No, you can do whatever you want. I saw earlier that you were talking about your view counts and how you're in platinum. I didn't argue that you should be prohibited, just that it's awkward for you to take it so personally that you would actually get on a forum and argue with the people that would rather see other commentators.

I guess I would just rather see you respond to the criticism in a more positive way, especially if you're associated with the event.
Pants10
Profile Joined March 2011
United States58 Posts
April 07 2011 23:17 GMT
#529
On April 08 2011 04:06 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2011 03:52 Vul wrote:
I think it's awkward for TB to come to this thread and argue with everyone whose critical. This is a thread which has welcomed constructive criticism for a new event. Some of us are going to think that different casters are better and are curious to hear why they weren't selected or if they turned down the invitation. That somebody thinks Day9 is a better caster than TB or that one of the players who was selected isn't that great, doesn't need to be a big deal unless those people start to respond to the criticism and make it personal.

You can't convince everyone that doesn't like you that they should by arguing about it on forums. If they already aren't a fan, you will just seem obnoxious.


This doesn't make a whole lot of sense. So you want to give feedback on your personal caster likes and dislikes but you don't want any discussion with those involved because it's 'awkward'?

I'm not really concerned about whether or not people find honesty and useful information to be 'obnoxious'. It does seem a little odd to label it that way, TL is a community where those involved heavily in the scene, whether casting, promoting, playing and organising try to get involved in the discussion, but it's not ok to discuss something you're involved in and have a lot of information about? Have I once during this thread took offence to anything said, regardless of less than tactful insinuations and occassionally downright insults of my work? Not to my knowledge. If I have though, feel free to point them out and you'll get my apologies.

As it stands however, decrying a league because of personal caster preferences doesn't seem like constructive feedback. While some make valid points about the balance between play-by-play and analysis, the majority of feedback has not contained useful information, but more subjective opinion based on personal preference, plus the whole caster thing has already been answered multiple times by Ed, Alex and myself. There will be a wider variety of casters for the second league and these casters were chosen because of their proven mainstream appeal that will help bring in new eSports fans from IGN where a highly analytical commentator would not. It's really as simple as that. I don't think it's reasonable to assume that every single tournament, especially in this particular format, is aimed squarely at the TL crowd, whose preferences are well known. The SC2 community is larger than that, much larger and it can grow even further if opportunities like this are approached in the correct manner.



I don't wanna sound like a troll but I think saying you won't watch because you don't like a certain caster is totally valid criticism of the tournament. If they dislike your commentary so much that the only way they'll watch the tournament is if you're not involved with it then they should be able to say that in a topic about said tournament.
photomuse
Profile Joined August 2010
United States102 Posts
April 08 2011 00:03 GMT
#530
This sounds fun and I'll definitely try to tune in. I'm agree with the day9 worship in this thread. He cracks me up but I personally think he is a very acquired taste. I do agree that the day9 DJW combo works quite well but day9 doesn't need to be involved with a sc2 event for me to be interested. What western esports needs is a tastosis equivalent...we need to keep trying new things until we find it.

GSL/NASL subscriber
Trowa127
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom1230 Posts
April 08 2011 00:14 GMT
#531
Very exciting that IGN are getting involved in SC2. To be honest I'm also not a huge fan of Totalbiscuit casts (simply because I prefer in depth analysis of the specifics in a game, and he caters more to the 'WoW' crowd) but its not going to stop me watching all of these games, and paying for the stream.
Bling, MC, Snute, HwangSin, Deranging (<3) fan. 'Full name - ESP ORTS' Vote hotbid. Vote ESPORTS.
TotalBiscuit
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United Kingdom5437 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-08 00:40:08
April 08 2011 00:28 GMT
#532
On April 08 2011 08:17 Pants10 wrote:
I don't wanna sound like a troll but I think saying you won't watch because you don't like a certain caster is totally valid criticism of the tournament. If they dislike your commentary so much that the only way they'll watch the tournament is if you're not involved with it then they should be able to say that in a topic about said tournament.


It is not constructive criticism because the subject of the choice of casters has already been addressed and dealt with in detail several times, nor are they suddenly going to turn around and revoke my, HD's or anyone elses contract because a few people on Teamliquid prefer different commentators.

That criticism applies to every commentator on the planet to a greater or lesser extent. Subjectivity is just that and several people don't seem to understand that their personal preference is not a universal rule. The success or failure of a tournament is not determined by whether or not some people on Teamliquid don't like the commentary line-up and if you need any proof of that you need only check the viewer numbers on the TSL, which were highest during Husky's casts.

Personally I think it's infinitely more important to expand the eSports market to people who are not already deeply involved in it. Yes, that is more important than whether or not a few diehards got upset that we're light on the analysis and heavy on the mainstream appeal. Expanding the market benefits everyone. It brings legitimacy, it brings more investment and sponsorship, it grows the number of tournaments and the number of players able to earn a living full time from playing it and as a result allows for greater feats of skill and higher levels of play. There's a whole big wide world of potential viewers out there to tap. I don't speak for IGN but in this caster's personal opinion, those potentials are the most important thing to go after right now and if that means snubbing a few guys who prefer heavy analysis in this particular tournament, so be it. There are plenty of tournaments for you guys to watch if you cannot stomach our casting, there are plenty more who can.

No, you can do whatever you want. I saw earlier that you were talking about your view counts and how you're in platinum. I didn't argue that you should be prohibited, just that it's awkward for you to take it so personally that you would actually get on a forum and argue with the people that would rather see other commentators.

I guess I would just rather see you respond to the criticism in a more positive way, especially if you're associated with the event.


The implication being that I'm somehow taking this personally rather than providing a rational counter-argument. I'm not sure you can really judge that via text on the internet. Arguments should be supported by facts and statistics, that's what I'm giving you here. I don't need to defend my validity as a caster from anyone, but what I would like is for people to understand that growing eSports to a wider audience is very important and the #2 and #3 most viewed casters on Youtube as well as Wheat whose record should be beyond reproach, are the guys most qualified to do that right now. Do you guys want fresh blood in the scene or are you just interested in your own personal gratification? It's ok if you are, this is just entertainment after all, but in my opinion there are more pressing concerns.
CommentatorHost of SHOUTcraft Clan Wars- http://www.mlg.tv/shoutcraft
probob
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany227 Posts
April 08 2011 00:36 GMT
#533
More prestige Tournaments coming up , good thing for eSports.
Happy to see HDstarcraft as a caster, I liked him since the beta and he makes a good team with Painuser.
I also like TB, people should show more appreciation for all casters for the effort they put in, but haters gonna hate, cant do nothing about that.
Ich bin ein Berliner
dtz
Profile Joined September 2010
5834 Posts
April 08 2011 00:38 GMT
#534
Correct me if i'm wrong but this statement seems contradictory.

The success or failure of a tournament is not determined by whether or not some people on Teamliquid don't like the commentary line-up and if you need any proof of that you need only check the viewer numbers on the TSL, which were highest during Husky's casts.


Arguable the success of a tournament is determined by how many people watches the tournament among other reason. In the second sentence, you said during Husky's cast, the TSL views are highest. Which means that as the most popular caster on Youtube, Husky brings in the viewers which contribute to the success of the tournament. Yet, in the first sentence, you say that whether the commentary line-up is liked ( popular) does not matter.


Anyway well done IGN and will be looking forward to the tourney. All the casters seem fine by me. I actually like PainUser's analysis a lot so will be rooting for him. Such a pity that the teaser does not include IdrA and Kiwi! Having IdrA inside will make the trailer 1000x more appealing to the viewers imo although it probably is hard to get him into a studio and film these "cheesy" trailers not to mention having him in the same room as root's members.
TotalBiscuit
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United Kingdom5437 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-08 00:52:20
April 08 2011 00:45 GMT
#535
On April 08 2011 09:38 dtz wrote:
Correct me if i'm wrong but this statement seems contradictory.

Show nested quote +
The success or failure of a tournament is not determined by whether or not some people on Teamliquid don't like the commentary line-up and if you need any proof of that you need only check the viewer numbers on the TSL, which were highest during Husky's casts.


Arguable the success of a tournament is determined by how many people watches the tournament among other reason. In the second sentence, you said during Husky's cast, the TSL views are highest. Which means that as the most popular caster on Youtube, Husky brings in the viewers which contribute to the success of the tournament. Yet, in the first sentence, you say that whether the commentary line-up is liked ( popular) does not matter.


Sure, I'll correct you because you seem to have misinterpreted what I said in the first place. What I said was, in reply to someone claiming it was constructive criticism to express dislike for the casters, is that it's not. Explanation was given in the post as to why.

As for the TSL comment, absolutely, Husky brought in additional viewers that TL did not have access to on it's own. That is what casters with their own fanbases can do. HD has around 100,000 regular viewers for SC2 content, I have about 50-60k. We bring value to whichever tournament we are casting, to the point where the tournament could be a success with just our fanbases and nobody else if need be. My point being what we bring to the tournament in terms of raw numbers counterbalances any lost views that may or may not come from those who claim they will not watch it due to the choice of casters.We can pretty much guarantee those numbers because we bring them in every day. Obviously that was a factor in the choice of casters, along with the more obvious mainstream appeal required to tap into IGN's demographic of readers.

Esports is a business, these are considerations one has to bear in mind. I'm asking people to look beyond their personal likes and dislikes and see a bright future that mainstream casters can help to realise, if folks actually support us in doing so. We all want the same thing.
CommentatorHost of SHOUTcraft Clan Wars- http://www.mlg.tv/shoutcraft
stalife
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada1222 Posts
April 08 2011 00:47 GMT
#536
TB is fucking amazing I love his commentating.
www.memoryexpress.com
Vul
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States685 Posts
April 08 2011 13:19 GMT
#537
The implication being that I'm somehow taking this personally rather than providing a rational counter-argument. I'm not sure you can really judge that via text on the internet. Arguments should be supported by facts and statistics, that's what I'm giving you here. I don't need to defend my validity as a caster from anyone, but what I would like is for people to understand that growing eSports to a wider audience is very important and the #2 and #3 most viewed casters on Youtube as well as Wheat whose record should be beyond reproach, are the guys most qualified to do that right now. Do you guys want fresh blood in the scene or are you just interested in your own personal gratification? It's ok if you are, this is just entertainment after all, but in my opinion there are more pressing concerns.


Here's the problem--it comes off extremely poorly for you to try to argue that somehow the success of Starcraft is contingent on you casting these games. Your Youtube view counts doesn't make you the messiah of esports. I have a lot more respect for someone like Day9, who actually plays and was one of the best players on the scene, and provides analysis, not just casting, which actually helps people get better. You're comparing your view counts to Day9 as if you two do the same thing. Day9 can make the games entertaining, but he also helps people get better, every day. That's what his show is about, most aren't. I think that he's exponentially more important to the community because he's done exponentially more for the community. And therefore I support him as a caster. To me, the fact that you don't seem to have any respect for Day9's tremendous contributions, as evidenced by you trying to prove why you're the better choice, says all I need to know about your merits as a caster in the Sc2 community.
Sliver
Profile Joined April 2010
United States402 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-08 13:27:38
April 08 2011 13:27 GMT
#538
Not really excited...over saturation of SC2 tournys and with TB casting this I think I may not watch.
s4life
Profile Joined March 2007
Peru1519 Posts
April 08 2011 14:01 GMT
#539
Hey Vul, if you don't like the casters simply don't watch it. Personally, I don't really care who is casting as long as they are entertaining... it's come to a point that most 'analytical' casters regurgitate the same @#$# over and over. In all honesty I prefer korean casting, or that german dude named Khaldor -- when he does it in german -- and that in spite of not knowing the language heh. If you want analysis, watch Day9 dailies.. not his castings.
Raavi
Profile Joined August 2010
Denmark156 Posts
April 08 2011 14:10 GMT
#540
me, me, me, me, me... i dont like this, i dont like that, bla bla bla
My god, look beyond your own noses plx. Just because you like caster X and dont like caster Y, does not mean that everyone else thinks so aswell. The amount of youtube subcribers clearly supports that statement.

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