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[TSL] Ro32 Day3 - Page 417

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Diglett
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
600 Posts
March 27 2011 08:18 GMT
#8321
On March 27 2011 16:59 papaz wrote:What is more sad is people going "no,it's not lag koreans played poorly".


playing poorly with lag means you are playing poorly.
entropius
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1046 Posts
March 27 2011 08:19 GMT
#8322
Would it be feasible to have EU vs. Korea games played on the EU and Korea servers, alternating, like EU-US games are?

I imagine the EU-KR lag isn't so bad, because it doesn't go through Japan.
whiterabbit
Profile Joined June 2009
2675 Posts
March 27 2011 08:22 GMT
#8323
On March 27 2011 17:19 entropius wrote:
Would it be feasible to have EU vs. Korea games played on the EU and Korea servers, alternating, like EU-US games are?

I imagine the EU-KR lag isn't so bad, because it doesn't go through Japan.


I think EU is worst choice for KR players.

Check this topic: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=205366

On March 27 2011 08:23 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
I wanted to re-post this here, as I think theres a lot of people talking about this that either understate its effects, or greatly exaggerate it. I posted a lot of this, but its on page 400 so......

KR playing on KR: Lan latency in SC1
EU playing on US: Low latency in SC1
KR playing on US: High latency in SC1
KR playing on EU: Extra high latency in SC1

And you know what, Id even say its a little bit smaller of a difference than that (and its actually not as bad as high latency was in SC1 at all, Im just using it for scale really).

NUTELLA y u no make me skinny?!?
Ropid
Profile Joined March 2009
Germany3557 Posts
March 27 2011 08:26 GMT
#8324
On March 27 2011 17:19 entropius wrote:
Would it be feasible to have EU vs. Korea games played on the EU and Korea servers, alternating, like EU-US games are?

I imagine the EU-KR lag isn't so bad, because it doesn't go through Japan.


EU-KR goes through who knows how many different countries, I guess through sea cables along the coast lines, and is supposedly much worse than KR-US.
"My goal is to replace my soul with coffee and become immortal."
entropius
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1046 Posts
March 27 2011 08:29 GMT
#8325
Ah, thanks. Didn't realize KR-EU lag was so bad.
Lonyo
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United Kingdom3884 Posts
March 27 2011 08:32 GMT
#8326
On March 27 2011 16:20 chenchen wrote:
Ok, anyone who said that lag didn't really affect the Koreans' losses which were due to "decision making" or "strategy" or whatever . . . either has no idea what he's talking about or is blind.

Not only does lag throw players off tilt, there were constant clear examples or MVP's delayed bio micro, Genius's delayed ffs, and Nestea's delayed units running away from siege tanks, because we've seen these players perform in GSL and we know what level of micro they're capable of in a lag free environment.

So please, stop disregarding lag. It was definitely a factor.

Did MVP drop down to Code A by losing to two protosses because of lag?
HOLY CHECK!
Uncultured
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1340 Posts
March 27 2011 08:32 GMT
#8327
Where are the VODs at? Read over the original post a few times now looking for them. Are they not out yet? Sorry if this has been asked/answered before.
Don't you rage when you lose too? -FruitDealer
Apoo
Profile Joined January 2011
413 Posts
March 27 2011 08:34 GMT
#8328
My whole bracket is destroyed but im happy for goody :D
smileyyy
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany1816 Posts
March 27 2011 08:40 GMT
#8329
On March 27 2011 17:32 Uncultured wrote:
Where are the VODs at? Read over the original post a few times now looking for them. Are they not out yet? Sorry if this has been asked/answered before.

http://www.youtube.com/user/teamliquidnet here you go
Fruitseller: I feel like it's a good strategy[6Pool]. I had a lot of strategies, but I thought about it a lot and decided to 6 pool. Other people told me to 6 pool too
chenchen
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1136 Posts
March 27 2011 08:41 GMT
#8330
On March 27 2011 17:32 Lonyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2011 16:20 chenchen wrote:
Ok, anyone who said that lag didn't really affect the Koreans' losses which were due to "decision making" or "strategy" or whatever . . . either has no idea what he's talking about or is blind.

Not only does lag throw players off tilt, there were constant clear examples or MVP's delayed bio micro, Genius's delayed ffs, and Nestea's delayed units running away from siege tanks, because we've seen these players perform in GSL and we know what level of micro they're capable of in a lag free environment.

So please, stop disregarding lag. It was definitely a factor.

Did MVP drop down to Code A by losing to two protosses because of lag?


Did MVP wreck protosses in GSTL and wreck Tester in GSL Jan because . . . he's good?
powerade = dragoon blood
Tipany
Profile Joined November 2010
United States368 Posts
March 27 2011 08:42 GMT
#8331
On March 27 2011 17:32 Lonyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2011 16:20 chenchen wrote:
Ok, anyone who said that lag didn't really affect the Koreans' losses which were due to "decision making" or "strategy" or whatever . . . either has no idea what he's talking about or is blind.

Not only does lag throw players off tilt, there were constant clear examples or MVP's delayed bio micro, Genius's delayed ffs, and Nestea's delayed units running away from siege tanks, because we've seen these players perform in GSL and we know what level of micro they're capable of in a lag free environment.

So please, stop disregarding lag. It was definitely a factor.

Did MVP drop down to Code A by losing to two protosses because of lag?

The frickkk?

That doesn't prove anything lol
wat.
vonterribad
Profile Joined July 2010
Australia50 Posts
March 27 2011 08:43 GMT
#8332
On March 27 2011 17:32 Uncultured wrote:
Where are the VODs at? Read over the original post a few times now looking for them. Are they not out yet? Sorry if this has been asked/answered before.


There are a few vods up on

http://www.youtube.com/teamliquidnet

They are starting to be uploaded now it seems.
Linkirvana
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands365 Posts
March 27 2011 08:50 GMT
#8333
For me personally the lag is a bit of a buzzkill. It was embarassing to watch Koreans get owned like that.

I didn't think it would be such a big problem. :/
Genzo
Profile Joined September 2010
Denmark207 Posts
March 27 2011 08:57 GMT
#8334
On March 27 2011 17:50 Linkirvana wrote:
For me personally the lag is a bit of a buzzkill. It was embarassing to watch Koreans get owned like that.

I didn't think it would be such a big problem. :/


who says it where, all this lag whine comes from the spectators assuming it was lag that caused them to lose
Plague1503
Profile Joined October 2010
Croatia466 Posts
March 27 2011 08:59 GMT
#8335
Wow. EU players FIGHTING!
Out of 12 people who passed into the second round, 7 are EU, 2 US (1 of which prefers the EU server, qxc), 2 Koreans and a Taiwanese player. I couldn't be more stoked about the results.

As for lag, Jinro explained it pretty well here:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=205366


Yes, lag CAN play a semi-large factor in the outcomes, but not nearly as huge as decision making and strategy. The Koreans (as you can well see if you read their interviews) just basically dropped the ball on any kind of practice or researching their opponents. It could be due to overconfidence, due to unfamiliarity with the foreign scene and due to not practicing with higher latencies, but fact is they were clearly outplayed in every match they lost. I do believe the second TSL will produce much different results, once the Korean and foreign scene get more in touch with one another (and that's happening all the time with the international tournaments and all the foreigners playing in Korea).

Also, I think it's a good proof that SC2 DOES involve less down-to-earth, pure mechanics than BW, but that was never in question, and, at the risk of receiving megaflames from all the BW veterans (whom I respect and certainly understand their complaints) I think it's actually really good that this time around, the focus is on actual STRATEGY and decision making, and not just pure mechanical speed and skill.
"Good luck." "I don't need luck. I have ammo."
Skyze
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada2324 Posts
March 27 2011 09:01 GMT
#8336
On March 27 2011 17:59 Plague1503 wrote:
Wow. EU players FIGHTING!
Out of 12 people who passed into the second round, 7 are EU, 2 US (1 of which prefers the EU server, qxc), 2 Koreans and a Taiwanese player. I couldn't be more stoked about the results.

As for lag, Jinro explained it pretty well here:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=205366


Yes, lag CAN play a semi-large factor in the outcomes, but not nearly as huge as decision making and strategy. The Koreans (as you can well see if you read their interviews) just basically dropped the ball on any kind of practice or researching their opponents. It could be due to overconfidence, due to unfamiliarity with the foreign scene and due to not practicing with higher latencies, but fact is they were clearly outplayed in every match they lost. I do believe the second TSL will produce much different results, once the Korean and foreign scene get more in touch with one another (and that's happening all the time with the international tournaments and all the foreigners playing in Korea).

Also, I think it's a good proof that SC2 DOES involve less down-to-earth, pure mechanics than BW, but that was never in question, and, at the risk of receiving megaflames from all the BW veterans (whom I respect and certainly understand their complaints) I think it's actually really good that this time around, the focus is on actual STRATEGY and decision making, and not just pure mechanical speed and skill.


quoted for truth.. if only more people used obvious logic instead of not even watching the games and going "OMG koreans lost, must be lag!"
Canada Gaming ~~ The-Feared
AxionSteel
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7754 Posts
March 27 2011 09:03 GMT
#8337
bah, They are being uploaded so slowly. As an Australian I couldn't stay up to watch the games live, last week the vods were uploaded really quickly and you could click on them and watch the games without being spoilered as to how many games were in the series etc. But yeh, having to go into the youtube channel looking for a few games, you see the two games of Mvp vs Adel and after seeing the first game, it spoils who'll win the series -.-

Sorry if this appears like a whine, just hope for a non spoiler vod release like the first week.
Mista_Masta
Profile Joined January 2009
Netherlands557 Posts
March 27 2011 09:04 GMT
#8338
Too bad many people consider the lag was such an issue. I guess this just shows the difficulties that long-distance games have in SC2...

About the results,

+ Show Spoiler +
it's still interesting to see the Liquibet-underdog win four times in a row.
serojja
Profile Joined March 2011
Ukraine90 Posts
March 27 2011 09:09 GMT
#8339
It seems to me that the only way to stop this kind of "blind discussion" is to make interviews with those Koreans who lost their games yesterday and ask them about their feelings and thoughts about all these lags - this will be the answer to all the questions.
Plague1503
Profile Joined October 2010
Croatia466 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-27 09:11:30
March 27 2011 09:10 GMT
#8340
Also, on a totally unrelated note, either Husky's always had this good of an understanding of the game but purposely sacrificed some of the analysis for entertainment value, some of Day9 rubbed off on him, or he simply improved as a caster in every way, back from the time everyone (or at least most people) were bashing him for being a "sellout who only does casts for entertainment and provides zero analysis or game knowledge" "couldn't possibly cast TSL3 competently" etc. Be it what it may, I really think he did an absolutely amazing job, as all the casters did.

This tournament is just so good in every way, it's just what I've been waiting for since I started following the SC2 competitive scene.

Mega props to Team Liquid, the players, casters and everyone involved.
"Good luck." "I don't need luck. I have ammo."
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