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On March 28 2011 00:25 GeorgeForeman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 21:35 Crt wrote:
watched all the games and concluded that
1. koreans lost because of latency/lags issues.
2 the reason the games were close was because the koreans were so good that they're still able to macro/micro with huge bricks on their feets
3. foreigners are huge biasers, when they won, they claimed it's skills, when they played on a server half a world away and lost, they claimed it's lag. they even moved to korea to play and practice to eliminate the lag issue, yet denied it totally when they won because of unfair advantage.
4. koreans don't whine.
5. foreigners, especially the bias blind fans.... are yikeee...
sickening... When Jinro/Huk tell me it's not the lag, I believe them. When Koreans get super-far behind econ-wise and then lose because their armies are smaller, it's not lag. I don't doubt that lag is an issue, but MC didn't seem to mind. I think the Koreans lost because they didn't prepare for these matches like they would've for GLS matches. They saw Ace, Moon, and Squirtle wreck all the white guys at IEM and concluded they would do the same. (You know, just like 90% of the "biased foreigners" who did Liquibet and the bracket contest.) I don't think anyone is saying that Addelscott is better than MVP or whatever. But it means the skill gap is small. Koreans need to take foreigners seriously to beat them in a tournament like this, and if they don't, players like Thorzain an Addelscott will beat them.
Couldn't agree more. To me the Koreans just played badly. Adelscott had 2-2 gateway units going against MVP's 1-0 MM ball. And this was at 25 mins into the game. No amount of micro was going to win that battle. They didn't seem prepared for long games at all. They seemed to think they would win a short/mid game, but they were forced into the long game where their eco and upgrades were behind.
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On March 28 2011 00:45 Warrior Madness wrote:
Wow, I've never seen a livereport thread go over 400 pages before.
-50 pages worth of lag complaint
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On March 28 2011 00:51 Genzo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 00:45 Warrior Madness wrote:
Wow, I've never seen a livereport thread go over 400 pages before. -50 pages worth of lag complaint
If it's not about the lag it's about balance, the casters, the tournament format and so on. I've seen worse. 
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On March 26 2011 22:25 UnholyRai wrote:
@Awesome. I predict Genius. Ret. Nestea. MVP.
gogo
0 % 
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Delay was clearly affecting MVP's ability to micro his marines and marauders. It's questionable whether that lost him the games, as Adel's unit positioning was so good in every engagement, and every knew going in there would be these problems, but it was still really frustrating to watch.
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On March 27 2011 04:25 Lann555 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 04:24 Lylat wrote:
Lag must prevent Genius from upgrading and expanding Nah, thats just lack of motivation/preperation.
what the hell is wrong with these koreans... 15k dollars isnt a good enough motivation?
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On March 27 2011 19:49 TheAwesomeAll wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 18:15 TheJoyBringer wrote:On March 27 2011 11:06 Hierarch wrote:On March 27 2011 10:55 TheJoyBringer wrote:On March 27 2011 10:37 Hierarch wrote:On March 27 2011 10:30 Poopi wrote:
Award for worst tournament ever? ^^. Lag affects the game so bad, it isn't even worth watching. So don't watch... But if you decide to not make ridiculous blanket statements, go read Jinro's post on the lag issues, if the koreans were being affected by lag so badly then it's because they didn't take this seriously and prepare accordingly. Also the foreigners just played better I feel, I mean case in point look at the upgrades they were getting is just one example of poor play. "So don't watch..." is probably the worst thing you could say. Do you really think that solves problems? "Oh my god, that man is beating his wife in public!" "So don't watch..." Probably a poor example but I think you get my point. I don't know if other people have the same problem but when I play with lag/latency it severely impairs my playing ability. :/ It probably would impair your playing ability if you're not used to it, but I'm sure after hundreds of games under those conditions it becomes bearable. Also your example wasn't probably poor it was horrendously poor. A better example would be: The Lakers are playing the Heat in the playoffs and Lamar Odom got injured, it's definitely going to hamper the Lakers ability to play well as a team and put them at a disadvantage, it doesn't make the game "unwatchable" because one team is at a slight disadvantage. But if you feel that way you don't have to watch. But saying flat out: "These games are unwatchable" is just plain ignorant. If they are so unwatchable from an entertainment or competitive standpoint (not a legal or moral standpoint like your wife beating example) then simply don't watch. I take that back, it wasn't a poor example, it was a good example. The point is that there is some sort of injustice occurring. I don't see how you can compare getting injured with having to play with lag. There's a certain parallel but it doesn't work completely. Of course, the injustice part is a whole different perspective on the issue that you obviously don't agree with, so this is a case of agree to disagree. This is a game. Nobody is getting hurt. It was a poor example. This is a better example: Those two chess players are playing with a unfair clock, its affecting the game. Its the worst tournament EVER!! Well... dont watch if it affects you so strongly. And if somebody is beating his wife you shouldnt look, but you should act and certainly not have a discussion about you should watch or not, since the beating up is affecting the game so bad.
Try not to draw too many parallels lol. If I were to give a "perfect" example it would be the exact same situation, which means that there's no point in trying to explain it... because it'd be the exact same situation... The point of examples is not to draw parallels for literally everything possible.
I already stated that the point I'm trying to get across is that some sort of injustice is occurring. If I were to put it in the chess situation you described it would be two chess players playing with a clock that is unfair towards one of the players and audience members cheering on and claiming the superiority of the other player. It's just annoying, certainly not like the man-beating-the-woman scenario, which is grossly exaggerated, but it contained the essence of the point I'm focusing on.
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On March 27 2011 23:52 mordk wrote:
Wow.. are people really saying Adelscott played well?? Certainly MVP didn't play his best, plus he probably was lagging a bit, but adelscott was pooling 1.3k-2k mins, not macroing AT ALL during battles. Things that demand attention:
-Adelscott's macro was horrendous
-MVP was clearly affected by lag, you can see this clearly when he defends his gold with his stimmed marauders, he barely even microes them, if you've watched the GSL/GSTL you know that MVP is a lot better than this.
-MVP also made some poor decisions, like not upgrading.
All in all. MVP played sub-par, and adding lag to that, he ended up getting beat by Adelscott, who did NOT play well. When he faces another "foreigner" on equal footing, he'll lose if he doesn't practice his macro.
He was banking over 1k minerals, but he had nearly 10 gateways. So one round of just zealots is almost 1k minerals anyways. And both players were affected by lag.
The reason AdelScott won G1 was because he killed all of the medivacs early on, so when he teched up to Collosus, MVP had to reinforce just with vikings, so every stim really really hurt MVP. This effect was amplified by MVP not having upgrades.
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Is it only me, or does the music seem to overwhelm the commentary?
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Very good play by Mondragon vs Phoenix/Void Ray. He very smartly builds not anti-air units, but continiously streams ground units and and keeps the pressure on.
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It's so obvious naniwa cheated. That is, if the thing was streamed directly, without a 10 minute delay or something like that.
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just watched the VODS. and all koreans were eliminated! LOOOL
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On March 28 2011 06:18 FIRETRUCK wrote:
It's so obvious naniwa cheated. That is, if the thing was streamed directly, without a 10 minute delay or something like that.
They casted the replays, not live games.
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Just watched the VODs (busy all weekend  ) and then had a look at this thread.
1st reply:
On March 26 2011 22:25 UnholyRai wrote:
I predict Genius. Ret. Nestea. MVP.
Don't quit the day job to become a gambler dude!
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EPT
