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[TSL] Ro32 Day3 - Page 416

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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starcraft911
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Korea (South)1263 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-27 07:16:23
March 27 2011 07:16 GMT
#8301
Wow, I don't think anyone would have predicted those results unless they were just trying to introduce some chaos and choosing what they thought nobody would choose. Amazing games so far. Best TSL ever.
s4life
Profile Joined March 2007
Peru1519 Posts
March 27 2011 07:19 GMT
#8302
On March 27 2011 15:50 ct2299 wrote:

I'm not trying to take credit away from Adel, he's a great player. QXC I have my doubts after IEM and some other things. Goody, I absolutely don't think he deserved to win seeing how he's played against some people. Sorry I just have to state that. Great job to Adel, and I definitely think MVP deserved to lose as well, he's been playing quite poorly lately, I would say the same to Genius as well.


So basically you are QQing because things didn't go the way you expected. After all QxC should have lost against Genius since he didn't play well in IEM and Goody.. well he can't win ever... he must lose all his games.. do you realize how ridiculous you sound?
chenchen
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1136 Posts
March 27 2011 07:20 GMT
#8303
Ok, anyone who said that lag didn't really affect the Koreans' losses which were due to "decision making" or "strategy" or whatever . . . either has no idea what he's talking about or is blind.

Not only does lag throw players off tilt, there were constant clear examples or MVP's delayed bio micro, Genius's delayed ffs, and Nestea's delayed units running away from siege tanks, because we've seen these players perform in GSL and we know what level of micro they're capable of in a lag free environment.

So please, stop disregarding lag. It was definitely a factor.
powerade = dragoon blood
smileyyy
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany1816 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-27 07:27:27
March 27 2011 07:26 GMT
#8304
Ahhh TL you are killing me... I want to watch the games afap. I fell asleep after qxc vs genius and was like na gonna watch the vods, since TL is usually pretty fast with that stuff. No I am running circles. Plz hurry up... need more coffee and tea :D

Also Failnet 0.2 sucks :D
Fruitseller: I feel like it's a good strategy[6Pool]. I had a lot of strategies, but I thought about it a lot and decided to 6 pool. Other people told me to 6 pool too
branflakes14
Profile Joined July 2010
2082 Posts
March 27 2011 07:29 GMT
#8305
Fuck yeah Adelscott.
veraliar
Profile Joined November 2010
227 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-27 07:39:54
March 27 2011 07:33 GMT
#8306
On March 27 2011 15:08 Hot_Bid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2011 15:07 Crt wrote:
On March 27 2011 10:37 Hierarch wrote:
It's an obvious difference but if you prepare for it it can be mitigated enough to the point of not being the only determining factor. ... if lag had something to do with that by affecting their play due to being inexperienced with it then they should have prepared for it. It's not like the koreans are unaware of latency issues, they accepted the invite to this tournament with a 5 figure prize pool. This isn't BW, koreans are not always going to be better and to close I'm sure the lag affected Genius' forge so badly that it didn't start a single upgrade until the 20 minute mark zzz...


STUPIDEST STATEMENT Ever !!!

"Preparing for lag" ... heheh, give me a break.
"to offset the lag disadvantage" ... good god, yeah stupidest statement ever.

I definitely think it's a lag issue. Most of the games were close. Without lags, it'd be a lot different.

Point is: you can't use this tournament to compare skills of koreans vs. foreigners.

Of course you can prepare for it. What's so stupid about saying that? Jinro and Tyler seem to think you can, and so do all the oGs players who did well in FXOpen on NA.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=205366



Excuse me but if you have been practicing for 12 hours a day for the past 12 months in a lag free environment, and you have about a week to prepare for an environment where you are getting about 1000 ms (300 ms ping to see the change on the server, 300-500 ms to respond, 300 ms for server to register the response = about 1k ping), then it is pretty unfortunate for anyone to be so oblivious as to determine anything by these results, regardless of what Jinro says. We all saw the games. I hardly think anyone here says they were unwinnable and that is why oGs may be winning in FXOpen but they are hardly fair and it is ignorant to claim that a player with 12 month of conditioning in one environment can recondition himself for another in under a week.

Edit: And by the way, this determinist attitude by a lot of the people that are dismissing lag as a non-issue or a non-contributor to the losses is merely cementing the lack of legitimacy in their position, further fueling the ardor of the opposite side. I don't really see the big deal of people in charge simply acknowledging this and moving on. The persistent attempts to discredit each other is really just raising the issue to the forefront and whereas before the losses might be tossed out as no big deal, now they appear more and more emotionally charged and overshadow the tournament as a whole.
jmbthirteen
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States10734 Posts
March 27 2011 07:34 GMT
#8307
On March 27 2011 16:20 chenchen wrote:
Ok, anyone who said that lag didn't really affect the Koreans' losses which were due to "decision making" or "strategy" or whatever . . . either has no idea what he's talking about or is blind.

Not only does lag throw players off tilt, there were constant clear examples or MVP's delayed bio micro, Genius's delayed ffs, and Nestea's delayed units running away from siege tanks, because we've seen these players perform in GSL and we know what level of micro they're capable of in a lag free environment.

So please, stop disregarding lag. It was definitely a factor.


What about how the Koreans were always behind in upgrades? Thats why MVP lost. He had 1-0 bio going against 2-2 gateway units. Your not going to win. QXC also was ahead on upgrades too. Lag plays a factor, but not as big of a one as you would like to think. The foreigners seemed to be much more prepared for the games today.
www.superbeerbrothers.com
bRuTaL!!
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland588 Posts
March 27 2011 07:35 GMT
#8308
The lag was probably 300ms tops. Not even close to 1k...
Tasteless: "What was it Hans Solo was frozen in? Kryptonite?" Artosis: "Lol, no. Thats the stuff that hurts Batman."
vonterribad
Profile Joined July 2010
Australia50 Posts
March 27 2011 07:36 GMT
#8309
On March 27 2011 16:33 veraliar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2011 15:08 Hot_Bid wrote:
On March 27 2011 15:07 Crt wrote:
On March 27 2011 10:37 Hierarch wrote:
It's an obvious difference but if you prepare for it it can be mitigated enough to the point of not being the only determining factor. ... if lag had something to do with that by affecting their play due to being inexperienced with it then they should have prepared for it. It's not like the koreans are unaware of latency issues, they accepted the invite to this tournament with a 5 figure prize pool. This isn't BW, koreans are not always going to be better and to close I'm sure the lag affected Genius' forge so badly that it didn't start a single upgrade until the 20 minute mark zzz...


STUPIDEST STATEMENT Ever !!!

"Preparing for lag" ... heheh, give me a break.
"to offset the lag disadvantage" ... good god, yeah stupidest statement ever.

I definitely think it's a lag issue. Most of the games were close. Without lags, it'd be a lot different.

Point is: you can't use this tournament to compare skills of koreans vs. foreigners.

Of course you can prepare for it. What's so stupid about saying that? Jinro and Tyler seem to think you can, and so do all the oGs players who did well in FXOpen on NA.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=205366



Excuse me but if you have been practicing for 12 hours a day for the past 12 months in a lag free environment, and you have about a week to prepare for an environment where you are getting about 1000 ms (300 ms ping to see the change on the server, 300-500 ms to respond, 300 ms for server to register the response = about 1k ping), then it is pretty unfortunate for anyone to be so oblivious as to determine anything by these results, regardless of what Jinro says. We all saw the games. I hardly think anyone here says they were unwinnable and that is why oGs may be winning in FXOpen but they are hardly fair and it is ignorant to claim that a player with 12 month of conditioning in one environment can recondition himself for another in under a week.


Need to make up some more numbers; Also I THINK it was slightly cloudly in KOR that day say that was a huge issue aswell.
HolyArrow
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7116 Posts
March 27 2011 07:36 GMT
#8310
On March 27 2011 16:34 jmbthirteen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2011 16:20 chenchen wrote:
Ok, anyone who said that lag didn't really affect the Koreans' losses which were due to "decision making" or "strategy" or whatever . . . either has no idea what he's talking about or is blind.

Not only does lag throw players off tilt, there were constant clear examples or MVP's delayed bio micro, Genius's delayed ffs, and Nestea's delayed units running away from siege tanks, because we've seen these players perform in GSL and we know what level of micro they're capable of in a lag free environment.

So please, stop disregarding lag. It was definitely a factor.


What about how the Koreans were always behind in upgrades? Thats why MVP lost. He had 1-0 bio going against 2-2 gateway units. Your not going to win. QXC also was ahead on upgrades too. Lag plays a factor, but not as big of a one as you would like to think. The foreigners seemed to be much more prepared for the games today.


Like he said, it throws players off tilt - discourages and unfocuses.
smileyyy
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany1816 Posts
March 27 2011 07:37 GMT
#8311
vods are being uploaded !!!

Fruitseller: I feel like it's a good strategy[6Pool]. I had a lot of strategies, but I thought about it a lot and decided to 6 pool. Other people told me to 6 pool too
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-27 07:40:56
March 27 2011 07:38 GMT
#8312
1st game of MVP/Adelscott is up on Youtube now!

Ah, smileyyy beat me to it.
Clog
Profile Joined January 2011
United States950 Posts
March 27 2011 07:42 GMT
#8313
On March 27 2011 16:19 s4life wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2011 15:50 ct2299 wrote:

I'm not trying to take credit away from Adel, he's a great player. QXC I have my doubts after IEM and some other things. Goody, I absolutely don't think he deserved to win seeing how he's played against some people. Sorry I just have to state that. Great job to Adel, and I definitely think MVP deserved to lose as well, he's been playing quite poorly lately, I would say the same to Genius as well.


So basically you are QQing because things didn't go the way you expected. After all QxC should have lost against Genius since he didn't play well in IEM and Goody.. well he can't win ever... he must lose all his games.. do you realize how ridiculous you sound?


Are people not allowed to voice their opinion of players here? QXC impressed me in the games he played today, particularly with the constant harass on Xel'Naga, even though I was rooting for Genius. Goody in all honesty was very disappointing to watch. From nearly the same BO all three games to queue'ing up more than 2 scvs every game. Objectively, that's play I would expect from a diamond level player. Hopefully we'll see better play from him next round.

Adel played well. I don't know whats been up with MVP recently. Everyone says his TvP is bad, which is true, but he was doing things poorly that weren't specific to TvP at all. Hope to see him playing like he did back in GSL4.
NesTea | LosirA | MVP | CoCa | Nada | Ryung | DRG | YongHwa
veraliar
Profile Joined November 2010
227 Posts
March 27 2011 07:42 GMT
#8314
On March 27 2011 16:36 vonterribad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2011 16:33 veraliar wrote:
On March 27 2011 15:08 Hot_Bid wrote:
On March 27 2011 15:07 Crt wrote:
On March 27 2011 10:37 Hierarch wrote:
It's an obvious difference but if you prepare for it it can be mitigated enough to the point of not being the only determining factor. ... if lag had something to do with that by affecting their play due to being inexperienced with it then they should have prepared for it. It's not like the koreans are unaware of latency issues, they accepted the invite to this tournament with a 5 figure prize pool. This isn't BW, koreans are not always going to be better and to close I'm sure the lag affected Genius' forge so badly that it didn't start a single upgrade until the 20 minute mark zzz...


STUPIDEST STATEMENT Ever !!!

"Preparing for lag" ... heheh, give me a break.
"to offset the lag disadvantage" ... good god, yeah stupidest statement ever.

I definitely think it's a lag issue. Most of the games were close. Without lags, it'd be a lot different.

Point is: you can't use this tournament to compare skills of koreans vs. foreigners.

Of course you can prepare for it. What's so stupid about saying that? Jinro and Tyler seem to think you can, and so do all the oGs players who did well in FXOpen on NA.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=205366



Excuse me but if you have been practicing for 12 hours a day for the past 12 months in a lag free environment, and you have about a week to prepare for an environment where you are getting about 1000 ms (300 ms ping to see the change on the server, 300-500 ms to respond, 300 ms for server to register the response = about 1k ping), then it is pretty unfortunate for anyone to be so oblivious as to determine anything by these results, regardless of what Jinro says. We all saw the games. I hardly think anyone here says they were unwinnable and that is why oGs may be winning in FXOpen but they are hardly fair and it is ignorant to claim that a player with 12 month of conditioning in one environment can recondition himself for another in under a week.


Need to make up some more numbers; Also I THINK it was slightly cloudly in KOR that day say that was a huge issue aswell.



I actually purposefully gave very low numbers, merely to make my point. While the official numbers are impossible to know, they would be higher than mine.
Clog
Profile Joined January 2011
United States950 Posts
March 27 2011 07:44 GMT
#8315
On March 27 2011 16:34 jmbthirteen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2011 16:20 chenchen wrote:
Ok, anyone who said that lag didn't really affect the Koreans' losses which were due to "decision making" or "strategy" or whatever . . . either has no idea what he's talking about or is blind.

Not only does lag throw players off tilt, there were constant clear examples or MVP's delayed bio micro, Genius's delayed ffs, and Nestea's delayed units running away from siege tanks, because we've seen these players perform in GSL and we know what level of micro they're capable of in a lag free environment.

So please, stop disregarding lag. It was definitely a factor.


What about how the Koreans were always behind in upgrades? Thats why MVP lost. He had 1-0 bio going against 2-2 gateway units. Your not going to win. QXC also was ahead on upgrades too. Lag plays a factor, but not as big of a one as you would like to think. The foreigners seemed to be much more prepared for the games today.


Yeah, lag or not, Adel and QXC deserved their wins without a doubt.
NesTea | LosirA | MVP | CoCa | Nada | Ryung | DRG | YongHwa
RandomAccount#49059
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2140 Posts
March 27 2011 07:45 GMT
#8316
--- Nuked ---
Somi
Profile Joined August 2010
Pakistan123 Posts
March 27 2011 07:53 GMT
#8317
Game 2 is up
http://www.youtube.com/user/teamliquidnet#p/u/0/qq6UP7NqItk
For the Swarm!
papaz
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden4149 Posts
March 27 2011 07:59 GMT
#8318
sad that TSL is over shadowed with lag issue/discussion. seeing the horrible Mvp micro and Genius ff was painful.

What is more sad is people going "no,it's not lag koreans played poorly".

i wonder what the excuses are going to be when koreans roflstomp the world in GSL in the upcoming days.Koreans just happened to have a good day when games are played in offline environment?
smileyyy
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany1816 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-27 08:05:16
March 27 2011 08:05 GMT
#8319
On March 27 2011 16:59 papaz wrote:
sad that TSL is over shadowed with lag issue/discussion. seeing the horrible Mvp micro and Genius ff was painful.

What is more sad is people going "no,it's not lag koreans played poorly".

i wonder what the excuses are going to be when koreans roflstomp the world in GSL in the upcoming days.Koreans just happened to have a good day when games are played in offline environment?

Hmm dunno Tyler practices on the KR/EU-Server in order to get used to the delay.
If they took the TSL serious they wouldve practiced in advance.
Maybe they should use a vpn whose QoS to NA is better.
Fruitseller: I feel like it's a good strategy[6Pool]. I had a lot of strategies, but I thought about it a lot and decided to 6 pool. Other people told me to 6 pool too
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
March 27 2011 08:15 GMT
#8320
On March 27 2011 16:59 papaz wrote:
sad that TSL is over shadowed with lag issue/discussion. seeing the horrible Mvp micro and Genius ff was painful.

What is more sad is people going "no,it's not lag koreans played poorly".

i wonder what the excuses are going to be when koreans roflstomp the world in GSL in the upcoming days.Koreans just happened to have a good day when games are played in offline environment?


Lag isn't the only possible explanation you know. It could also have been under-preparation and overconfidence by some of the Korean players.
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