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On March 27 2011 08:35 danielsan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 08:17 Iamyournoob wrote:On March 27 2011 08:09 danielsan wrote:On March 27 2011 07:53 zeru wrote:On March 27 2011 07:50 Durp wrote:On March 27 2011 07:47 zeru wrote:On March 27 2011 07:44 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Goodys TvZ gives me a lot of hope for SC2 - I hope he can show as nice timings TvP as well. It seems that when the right timing is hit, mech can actually have an SC1 like quality (game 3), where a small army can actually do something...
Surprised by the results but if we get more goody TvZ from it, Im not too disappointed. I have had to revise my opinion of goody lately (started with his games vs Dimaga a couple of weeks back in the finals of some tournament). He has been playing very well and been a top euro since release, i don't know how people can underrate him so much. Unfortunately, Goody's mechanics are truly sub-par, barely diamond league level if you ask me (he spent most of game 3 supply blocked at 110 with units queue'd), but he has truly top terran decision making. As many of the pros have said, StarCraft 2 is a much less mechanically based game, and allows for strategy to beat out mechanics. Goody is solid proof of that statement, as he has shown through his results (like it or not, qualifying alone for the TSL counts as some results- plus check his other tournaments) that his decision making beats out the better mechanics of other players. + Show Spoiler + and conversely, NesTea threw the series away with BAD decision making I'd love to see the accepted best players in the world adapt to try his style. HINT JINRO <33333333 Goodys strength lies within his pushing skills with his tanks, weakness is definatly his mutlitasking. His precision and thought throughness of his positioning make up for it, mostly, which i think is awesome. Goody's precision and thought thoroughness equals my SC BW precision and thought thoroughness when playing BGH and pushing with 200 battlecruisers. Disregarding his macro and multitasking, his gameplan is non-existent, his decision making is god-awful and generally speaking his overall gameplay is coarse to say the least. I'm ashamed people on TL actually give him credit for winning. I somehow didn't like Goody either, because of him getting supply blocked a lot and queuing units to no end. Yet he seems to win a lot of games. I doubt it is all based on luck. And if Goody is such a bad player and so easy to beat, then his opponents are just worse than him. Yeah, there is a lot to dislike and critisize about him - but you got to admit that he knows how to win games. Dumb/unexpected strategies win you games. Sadly that's how ladder rolls and that's how 3rd world tourneys roll. A good player, once he had lost once to that one particular style, will certainly never lose to it again.
The problem with this argumentation is: Goody wins often tournaments or ends up high ranked. And he doesn't play vs. rndom n00bs but against top players. This is not luck or some random strategy e.g. Cloud has a 0:13 losing streak against Goody
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@ danielsan or what he is called : like chrisolo said, look what jinro said about goodys style
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Eagerly awaiting the VODs! Was only able to watch Ret vs Naniwa. qxc hwaiting and all that
On March 27 2011 08:31 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 08:28 HuskyTheHusky wrote:Great games today  . Thanks for having me along to cast again! I just want to mention that I was extremely sick yesterday and was just recovering today. Definitely not my best cast by far but Chill was on it as always. Great work! Sounded fine to me, couldn't even tell.
Exactly.
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On March 27 2011 08:35 danielsan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 08:17 Iamyournoob wrote:On March 27 2011 08:09 danielsan wrote:On March 27 2011 07:53 zeru wrote:On March 27 2011 07:50 Durp wrote:On March 27 2011 07:47 zeru wrote:On March 27 2011 07:44 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Goodys TvZ gives me a lot of hope for SC2 - I hope he can show as nice timings TvP as well. It seems that when the right timing is hit, mech can actually have an SC1 like quality (game 3), where a small army can actually do something...
Surprised by the results but if we get more goody TvZ from it, Im not too disappointed. I have had to revise my opinion of goody lately (started with his games vs Dimaga a couple of weeks back in the finals of some tournament). He has been playing very well and been a top euro since release, i don't know how people can underrate him so much. Unfortunately, Goody's mechanics are truly sub-par, barely diamond league level if you ask me (he spent most of game 3 supply blocked at 110 with units queue'd), but he has truly top terran decision making. As many of the pros have said, StarCraft 2 is a much less mechanically based game, and allows for strategy to beat out mechanics. Goody is solid proof of that statement, as he has shown through his results (like it or not, qualifying alone for the TSL counts as some results- plus check his other tournaments) that his decision making beats out the better mechanics of other players. + Show Spoiler + and conversely, NesTea threw the series away with BAD decision making I'd love to see the accepted best players in the world adapt to try his style. HINT JINRO <33333333 Goodys strength lies within his pushing skills with his tanks, weakness is definatly his mutlitasking. His precision and thought throughness of his positioning make up for it, mostly, which i think is awesome. Goody's precision and thought thoroughness equals my SC BW precision and thought thoroughness when playing BGH and pushing with 200 battlecruisers. Disregarding his macro and multitasking, his gameplan is non-existent, his decision making is god-awful and generally speaking his overall gameplay is coarse to say the least. I'm ashamed people on TL actually give him credit for winning. I somehow didn't like Goody either, because of him getting supply blocked a lot and queuing units to no end. Yet he seems to win a lot of games. I doubt it is all based on luck. And if Goody is such a bad player and so easy to beat, then his opponents are just worse than him. Yeah, there is a lot to dislike and critisize about him - but you got to admit that he knows how to win games. Dumb/unexpected strategies win you games. Sadly that's how ladder rolls and that's how 3rd world tourneys roll. A good player, once he had lost once to that one particular style, will certainly never lose to it again. That's why a GSL player, once it figured Goody's style, will crush him in unimaginable ways while Goody, once he studied a GSL player, will be left with same ridiculous style or with 1 base all-ins. I'm not saying full mech doesnt work against Z, but check MKP vs ?! zerg on Terminus RE and see the difference between solid mech push and BGHesque "I'm gonna pack my things and go" Goody random push.
Well since a few disagree with you. I want to put my voice forward and say you are absolutely right.
I would expect him to get 6pooled and all sorts of rushes with this predictable style.
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On March 27 2011 08:42 M[a]LiCe wrote:
When will the vods be up? I'd like to watch them tonight...
Usually takes them awhile, but I would bet they would be ready by tomorrow afternoon.
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Quit using lag as an excuse for koreans losing and gg out
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funny how korean PLAYER not complain, but the fans
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On March 27 2011 08:45 ZeraToss wrote:
funny how korean PLAYER not complain, but the fans
Mby cause they knew the rules before they joined the cup?
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On March 27 2011 08:45 ZeraToss wrote:
funny how korean PLAYER not complain, but the fans
Korean players are really manner, and Boxer did complain about lag, but maybe he felt it would be ok since he won.
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On March 27 2011 08:44 Logo2010 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 27 2011 08:35 danielsan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 08:17 Iamyournoob wrote:On March 27 2011 08:09 danielsan wrote:On March 27 2011 07:53 zeru wrote:On March 27 2011 07:50 Durp wrote:On March 27 2011 07:47 zeru wrote:On March 27 2011 07:44 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Goodys TvZ gives me a lot of hope for SC2 - I hope he can show as nice timings TvP as well. It seems that when the right timing is hit, mech can actually have an SC1 like quality (game 3), where a small army can actually do something...
Surprised by the results but if we get more goody TvZ from it, Im not too disappointed. I have had to revise my opinion of goody lately (started with his games vs Dimaga a couple of weeks back in the finals of some tournament). He has been playing very well and been a top euro since release, i don't know how people can underrate him so much. Unfortunately, Goody's mechanics are truly sub-par, barely diamond league level if you ask me (he spent most of game 3 supply blocked at 110 with units queue'd), but he has truly top terran decision making. As many of the pros have said, StarCraft 2 is a much less mechanically based game, and allows for strategy to beat out mechanics. Goody is solid proof of that statement, as he has shown through his results (like it or not, qualifying alone for the TSL counts as some results- plus check his other tournaments) that his decision making beats out the better mechanics of other players. + Show Spoiler + and conversely, NesTea threw the series away with BAD decision making I'd love to see the accepted best players in the world adapt to try his style. HINT JINRO <33333333 Goodys strength lies within his pushing skills with his tanks, weakness is definatly his mutlitasking. His precision and thought throughness of his positioning make up for it, mostly, which i think is awesome. Goody's precision and thought thoroughness equals my SC BW precision and thought thoroughness when playing BGH and pushing with 200 battlecruisers. Disregarding his macro and multitasking, his gameplan is non-existent, his decision making is god-awful and generally speaking his overall gameplay is coarse to say the least. I'm ashamed people on TL actually give him credit for winning. I somehow didn't like Goody either, because of him getting supply blocked a lot and queuing units to no end. Yet he seems to win a lot of games. I doubt it is all based on luck. And if Goody is such a bad player and so easy to beat, then his opponents are just worse than him. Yeah, there is a lot to dislike and critisize about him - but you got to admit that he knows how to win games. Dumb/unexpected strategies win you games. Sadly that's how ladder rolls and that's how 3rd world tourneys roll. A good player, once he had lost once to that one particular style, will certainly never lose to it again. That's why a GSL player, once it figured Goody's style, will crush him in unimaginable ways while Goody, once he studied a GSL player, will be left with same ridiculous style or with 1 base all-ins. I'm not saying full mech doesnt work against Z, but check MKP vs ?! zerg on Terminus RE and see the difference between solid mech push and BGHesque "I'm gonna pack my things and go" Goody random push. Well since a few disagree with you. I want to put my voice forward and say you are absolutely right. I would expect him to get 6pooled and all sorts of rushes with this predictable style.
guys, he plays like this for ages, and has many different opening which all ends in mech. every top euro players knows this and still he is winning a fair amount of weekly trourneys.
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On March 27 2011 08:28 HuskyTheHusky wrote:Great games today . Thanks for having me along to cast again! I just want to mention that I was extremely sick yesterday and was just recovering today. Definitely not my best cast by far but Chill was on it as always. Great work!
Hey Husky I thought your casting today was pretty awesome, you work very well with Chill!
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Wow! Upsets galore!
All the Korean and Korean-trained players get knocked out, and all the foreigner heroes get past this round! Perhaps the future rounds won't be as Korean-dominated as thought, especially with latency definitely being a huge factor in many of these games. I only watched part of a few games, and in Nestea's game, his fail Zergling surrounds on Hellions and SCVs were rather painful to watch. Hopefully, the US-KR cables and latency can be fixed up in due time.
Good thing I picked some upsets in my Liquidbets, going 2/4 today. Perhaps I should've gone full out upsets, but that's either really smart or really stupid considering the risk. Oh well. My Liquidbet is still highly ranked after voting with my heart in GSTL.
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On March 27 2011 08:45 ZeraToss wrote:
funny how korean PLAYER not complain, but the fans
Because maybe they know nothing can be done? And It's always been BM to complain about lag after a match. Anyway, I think it's just the Europeans and Americans have gotten used to the lag by practicing on them, while Koreans probably never practiced with lag
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On March 27 2011 08:41 brentsen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 08:32 ketomai wrote:On March 27 2011 08:29 Seam wrote:
I wasn't able to watch the games, could anyone tell me how what happened happened?
MVP getting 2-0'd by Adelscott???
QXC 2-0ing genius!?
GoOdy winning 2-1 vs Nestea?! MVP makes questionable decisions and Adelscott showcases his unique manly PvT QXC plays amazingly to top genius. Genius: "qxc is so good". Goody plays mech in every game, wins one game with a rush and then the last game with early aggression as well. MVP I think really got hurt by lag, I mean getting a reaper surrounded by probes... can't really explain that. But as Jinro pointed out, if you know the lag you would not want to get a reaper, so it's in a way also his own fault. I agree on the second, QXC was really good. For Nestea I can't really tell... you can always lose to heavy aggression on Xelnaga. The third game was weird, I thought he would have been able to crush Goody's attack which might have been better than that counter attack.
A fact about Goody is, that his style allows him to somehow clean up forces in his own base with very few tanks and this helps him such in base trade situations like in game 3.
He is a master of defence and has a good game sense when he can push out.
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On March 27 2011 08:49 Shooks wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2011 08:45 ZeraToss wrote:
funny how korean PLAYER not complain, but the fans Because maybe they know nothing can be done? And It's always been BM to complain about lag after a match. Anyway, I think it's just the Europeans and Americans have gotten used to the lag by practicing on them, while Koreans probably never practiced with lag
well the thing is also the mentality of koreans, they wouldn't complain about that, but i find it still funny, how some of the "misscalculators" (i mean the bets/brackets) whine.
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Surprised about the criticism regarding goody's super-queuing because I don't think it is as big of a deal as people are making it out to be. It only is very detrimental in the very early game when you are penny pinching to get out that fast attack/defense/tech and it isn't as relevant in the later game as most people think. The opposite problem of super-queuing is missed production capacity which means you will have a smaller army/worker count than what you want. Plus in SC2, you get 100% refunds if you cancel a super-queued unit or upgrade so why not get them in the oven? Even the best players miss production windows due to multi-tasking, so while not stylish I think in many cases it is a good idea to super-queue units and upgrades.
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So many people are saying that LAG is the reason the Koreans lost, if it was such an issue why did none of them say anything about it?
Those that won, won because they played better. If the koreans didnt research whilst the foreigners did makes the koreans the lesser.
As for people moaning about Goody, those that are have you beaten NesTea lately? Have you won as many tournaments? He is truly a good player or else he wouldnt be here.
The games today were truly impressive. Congrats to all the winners and great casting loved every minute of it
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I really wish people would stop judging koreans from today's games. Anyone that thinks koreans came unprepared or played sloppy should try playing with 400+ms with your opponent at 100-150ms at the most.
"Lesser" koreans crushed their competition in IEM, where geographic boundaries were removed. Now all of a sudden they're "slumping" and "playing sloppy" just cause they've been performing poorly in online tournaments.
I'm not taking anything away from our EU and NA players, but any intelligent person should be able to put two and two together and realize why koreans performed poorly today. If you still have doubts try playing with 400+ms and come back and tell us how "it's not a big deal" and "it won't affect their macro and decision making".
Let's put things in their true perspective and not get carried away here.
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On March 27 2011 08:45 Jisall wrote:
Quit using lag as an excuse for koreans losing and gg out
I don't care who wins but completely saying lag isn't affecting games at all is just folly.
In fact I hope Adelscott goes all the way. His style is cool and unique and I want to see more of it. QXC's style I think will be found out as I think it's very fragile. Goody's style will be interesting to see how he gets on in the rest of the tournament. Nani, gl to him. Again, I don't care/mind who wins, but to ignore the lag factor doesn't make sense since MC and Boxer said they did experience heavy lag and had to change their strats as a result.
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EPT
