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Players such as Jinro, HuK, and Adelscott did not apply for this tour, so don't ask why they aren't on this list. DIMAGA, Kas, and LaLush turned applications in late so they will not appear either. Please take some time to learn who exactly applied. Please inform yourself about who applied and who didn't. |
I really didn't expect people to rage so much here. From the first day until now people talk how unprofessional NASL is and so on. I mean, compare that with other tournaments like WCG which never surprise with crazy rules, games and players never heard of, bad streaming etc. Hardly anyone complains about that anymore because we are used to it. WCG is backed up by Samsung and could have collected tons of experience over the years but don't because they hardly work together with the community. On the other hand we have people from the community that are passionate about eSports, organize the tournament quite publicly and all they receive are massive flames.
NASL appears unprofessional? Who would have guessed that since they don't have a major organization with lots of eSports experience in organizing offline events, televised matches, communication with clans etc. backing them up? I don't expect everything to be shiny and perfect in the first season but I have the impression that the NASL listens to the criticism of the community. Give them a chance first, blame them all you want later. I would be super annoyed if I planned something to make eSports big in the West for the community and all I get is people shitting on me.
About the players: People complain about it since the very first invites. WTF? Did you really expect the NASL will have an almost identical roster to the GSL? GSL stuff can be already seen almost on a daily basis, how is there a need for more of that? Invite criteria and fairness does not differ much from other invites procedures by tournament organizers that do not even care to explain why they invite players (e.g. Ace, Moon, Squirtle totally random invites for IEM World Championship?). Should players be selected by region? That's up to the tournament's philosophy! Otherwise, FIFA football world cup would be about 80% European teams only, WCG would be not the olympics of eSports etc. I like it how NASL is truly a GLOBAL league. And on the long run, players that do not deserve their spot will drop out. It's not like they invite players to stay forever in the league. Compare it with GSL qualification with no seeding and single elimination. Especially, don't talk the players down, it's very unrespectful (remember how Day[9] says to cheer for the players?). Some of the players you never heard of will own some of your favorite players!
Though I am very concerned about the problems in the application process the players come up with in this thread (+ the avilo story). Yes, that seems to be somewhat unprofessional, but as I said it is to be expected and should be something to learn from.
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Very nice line up!!
Can't wait!
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I can't wait for incontrol to smash nerds at MLG so people can get off his back. The guy supplies a near endless supply of content by casting, playing, streaming, or just giving his opinions of SoTG. Despite all of this, people endlessly bust his balls. Can anyone legitimately say that the NASL isn't INSTANTLY more interesting with him in it? The same goes for Artosis.
It would be so glorious if iNcontrol won mlg this weekend.
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On March 30 2011 08:00 DizzyDrone wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:50 Nimic wrote:
So if NightEnD failed to get in because he didn't pre-emptively prove his ability to get a visa, does that mean everyone else had to do the same. Or is it just because he's from Romania, and BratOK, a player from "one of those countries" has had some problems getting a visa in the past?
Thing is, Romania is in the European Union. There's no reason to expect that he'd have any more problems getting into the US than any other player from Europe.
I'm still quite excited about the NASL, but this and the DeMusliM thing makes me a little bit weary. Wasn't there also an issue where Jinro or Huk (one of the TL guys) said that oGs had NOT been contacted, contrary to what NASL had stated? (Not specifically oGs, but I am sure they stated Korean teams had been or would be contacted, and if oGs isn't the first team you approach I don't know what is).
You've got the potential to make something brilliant here. The cracks are starting to show, but I hope you keep it up and get it done. I'll probably get a Premium pass, or whatever you choose to call it. Please, don't respond to random posts without actually reading the full discussion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Waiver_ProgramThe Visa Waiver Program allows people from certain countries to enter the United States without a Visa. Romania is not one of those countries yet, which means NightEnd would need a Visa to enter the United States.
Being in the waiver program makes it easier but outside of that countries are not treated equally. European Union country citizens will find it a lot easier to obtain a visa than a lot of others including Korea. For example i need a visa to travel to Australia from the UK however i would be shocked if I was refused one.
You can still get refused entry if you lied on your boarding pass with a waiver the same as if you lie on your visa application.
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With the last 5 that was revealed (4 of them that i predicted, did not predict MorroW) I'm actually pleased about the participants.
There is mix of korean pros, american pros, eu pros and regular streamers on TL which I consider to be the "underdogs".
This, given that the production quality is high, can turn out to be a good event.
good luck NASL!
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On March 30 2011 08:05 SinCitta wrote:
I really didn't expect people to rage so much here. From the first day until now people talk how unprofessional NASL is and so on. I mean, compare that with other tournaments like WCG which never surprise with crazy rules, games and players never heard of, bad streaming etc. Hardly anyone complains about that anymore because we are used to it. WCG is backed up by Samsung and could have collected tons of experience over the years but don't because they hardly work together with the community. On the other hand we have people from the community that are passionate about eSports, organize the tournament quite publicly and all they receive are massive flames.
NASL appears unprofessional? Who would have guessed that since they don't have a major organization with lots of eSports experience in organizing offline events, televised matches, communication with clans etc. backing them up? I don't expect everything to be shiny and perfect in the first season but I have the impression that the NASL listens to the criticism of the community. Give them a chance first, blame them all you want later. I would be super annoyed if I planned something to make eSports big in the West for the community and all I get is people shitting on me.
About the players: People complain about it since the very first invites. WTF? Did you really expect the NASL will have an almost identical roster to the GSL? GSL stuff can be already seen almost on a daily basis, how is there a need for more of that? Invite criteria and fairness does not differ much from other invites procedures by tournament organizers that do not even care to explain why they invite players (e.g. Ace, Moon, Squirtle totally random invites for IEM World Championship?). Should players be selected by region? That's up to the tournament's philosophy! Otherwise, FIFA football world cup would be about 80% European teams only, WCG would be not the olympics of eSports etc. I like it how NASL is truly a GLOBAL league. And on the long run, players that do not deserve their spot will drop out. It's not like they invite players to stay forever in the league. Compare it with GSL qualification with no seeding and single elimination. Especially, don't talk the players down, it's very unrespectful (remember how Day[9] says to cheer for the players?). Some of the players you never heard of will own some of your favorite players!
Though I am very concerned about the problems in the application process the players come up with in this thread (+ the avilo story). Yes, that seems to be somewhat unprofessional, but as I said it is to be expected and should be something to learn from.
The fact that someone does it badly, doesnt justify you also making badly.
I dont expect everything to be perfect either, but if you are to present yourself as a pioneer of profesionnalism in the domain (which has been done by the NASL staff), you cant drop the ball like its been done so many times already, and then not properly justify it.
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Well, I just hope the NASL turns out OK. I personally think that Incontrol should have relinquished his spot to Minigun if the only reason he was denied was due to having "too many protoss players". This is not because I have anything against Incontrol, I like his stream and I love him on State of the Game, but Minigun has demonstrated more results and is likely the better player.
I'm also a bit put off by how the groups were put together. On one hand I can understand the desire to "balance" the groups by race, team, region, and rivalry, but on the other hand I think drama should come naturally and not be forced. They should be put together randomly so new storylines can happen and we can build up the story of the NASL, but purposely manipulating the groups to create artificial storylines kind of undercuts the anticipation for me.
I just hope everything turns out well, but so far it just seems so convoluted and manipulated. I don't want to compare other tournaments or anything too much, but look at something like the GSL which developed their storylines and drama naturally with three open seasons. That organic feel just doesn't look like something the NASL is going to have 
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On March 30 2011 07:55 Minigun wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:45 Bean54 wrote:On March 30 2011 07:15 Minigun wrote:On March 30 2011 07:09 Bean54 wrote:On March 30 2011 07:00 Minigun wrote:
To those negatively critizing the nasl...
Does everyone realize how big e-sports can get in the NA if this booms?
It will be huge, it's getting huge as we speak.
It's a list of 50 people. Unfortunately that means not every top player can get it.
They need to make money off it as well. So not only do they invite top players, but people the community favorites.
If there are players that don't belong, then they will be weeded out pretty fast. They may have taken your favorite players spot, but there's always next season, and if they really deserve to be there, then they will probably be able to get through using the qualifier. I'm not sure how well I would have done if they through me in there now. I can't say I would be confident playing someone like ogsmc in a tournament. Although I would love the chance too (favorite protoss player <3)
Nasl is a business. I want to watch it grow. Am I little disappointed I didn't get in? Ofc..but will there be other chances to get in, other turnys (especially if the NASL takes off) ? Yes.
Starcraft 2 is so close to becoming huge in the NA. Instead of negatively criticizing one of the first businesses to actually try and expand E-sports in the west. Lets give it our unconditional support. Starcraft 2 can be huge, but only if the community supports it.
We all want it to succeed. However, if the business wants support from the community, it should do its best to represent and treat the community fairly as well. People have valid criticisms of how their applications were handled that should be remedied rather than glanced over just because the business is hosting the tournament of a game we all love. Just because we want a e-sports to be big doesn't mean we turn a blind eye and give the NASL or any other tournament carte blanche to pick favorites and disregard hard-working and deserving players. The NASL depend on our viewership and the viewers should be heard (support AND criticism). There will be problems and people felt like they were "wronged" in every tournament. It's just unavoidable for the most part. (I'm not saying anyone was or wasn't, staying out of that because it's not really my business.) I think you are missing how extremely hard it would be for someone to pick 50 top players, out of koreans, eu, and na. I would pull my hair out. It's IMPOSSIBLE to not leave people out. I can think of a few iffy players on that list, but im keeping my opinion out of it. It doesn't matter if there are a few iffy players. NASL are one of the first businesses to put themselves out there, and try and do something amazing for e-sports and starcraft 2. I'm not going to not support them because someone I think was deserving didn't get in. There's always the next tournament. A perfect list would look 100% different for everyone. Did people who deserved to get in not get in? Of course, that would have happened no matter who made the list. whether it was me, you, or someone who was completely unbiased. Well see, it is your business because YOU were overlooked for as you call them, "iffy players." And that characterization, makes your opinion rather evident that you believe there are unqualified players or people that don't deserve to be there. AND YES IT DOES MATTER because legitimately good players LIKE YOURSELF are excluded and that matters to the viewers. I understand your desire to get in future tournaments and thus the incentive to avoid confrontation with the NASL but you should let others speak and stop defending the NASL's choices when you should have been on that list. We'll lets look at it this way from their viewpoint. I will use myself so I don't insult anyone. -qualifications of rootminigun -has no lan experience -did not play sc1 -is a ladder whore ( -_- ) -has played in a small amount of online turnys I usually place well in every turny, but that should motivate me to play more turnys, but for some reason I don't. I can only blame myself for not being invited Also, for the small amount of people hating on incontrol, please stop, he's a good player, and he's only trying to help e-sports. Please help him help us by supporting him.
What a classy guy! Minigun... you rock!
but stop the hate on InControl? You're asking TOO MUCH :D
InControl is the SC mobs poodle.... once he brings us the biggest and best SC tourney EVER.... we'll give him a little pat on the head and tell him he's a good boy. He promised... he set expectaions HIGH..... and he's got a chance to make some $$ for himself no doubt. He should be able to handle it.
The SC community relationship with InControl should be studied by science. Its a complex emotional beast.
NASL is looking good.... hiccups aside.... but I'm sure there will more drama in the future... Can't Wait!
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On March 30 2011 08:05 SinCitta wrote:
I really didn't expect people to rage so much here. From the first day until now people talk how unprofessional NASL is and so on. I mean, compare that with other tournaments like WCG which never surprise with crazy rules, games and players never heard of, bad streaming etc. Hardly anyone complains about that anymore because we are used to it. WCG is backed up by Samsung and could have collected tons of experience over the years but don't because they hardly work together with the community. On the other hand we have people from the community that are passionate about eSports, organize the tournament quite publicly and all they receive are massive flames.
Everyone complains about everything. It's the internet. I'm sure there's a post equating GOMtv to the Nazi regime somewhere in the blog section right now. It's just that for WCG and most other examples there's no one here on the forum to take offense to the complaints.
People complained about WCG maps endlessly, I'm sure wacksteven got kellymilkies style death threats for his casting before Tasteless.
Maybe when something is done with people so integrated in the community people hold them to an even higher standard than entities like Samsung (or soon IGN) when they try to make a tournament
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On March 30 2011 08:02 PHILtheTANK wrote:
lol at the people flaming incontrol. Not only is he a great SC2 player, but he was a big name int he BW scene, and is a huge figure in the community. He devotes a ton of time to SOTG, he streams just about more than anyone else, and he actually talks on stream about what hes doing so people can learn. He even streams a lot of his paid lessons, things that help a ton of players to see.
I'd love to see all of the people who are flaming him's accomplishments.
well the people complaining don't think his streaming and such should matter that much in selections. also none of them are saying that THEY should be in NASL in his place, so who cares about the posters' requirements?
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On March 30 2011 08:05 NightEnD wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:58 Chicane wrote:On March 30 2011 07:54 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:44 Xeris wrote:On March 30 2011 07:16 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:06 Xeris wrote:On March 30 2011 06:57 Bean54 wrote:
Xeris, you say you didnt accept NightEnD because he didn't already have a VISA. Did you even let the players know this was a requirement before or during the application process? Based on what it sounds like, you didn't. If not having a passport is a legitimate concern and is cause for disqualification you should have let NightEnD and all players know that BEFOREHAND so they could actually obtain one or fail to. Then you'd have a valid reason for disqualifying them. Sounds like you disqualified him for something that could easily have been remedied if you had let him know ahead of time. I didn't specifically tell the players, however, when I was approached by BRAT_OK's manager (from RoX), about the NASL, he actually provided me with BRAT's B1/2 VISA number that we verified. White-Ra has demonstrated his ability to get into the US before (I met him at MLG DC and Blizzcon, so I'm well aware he could get here). While it is true, I could have been clearer I guess, the ultimate burden of responsibility must be shared by both organizers and players. We are not here to hand-hold, and this is a two-way street. The fact that someone like BRAT's manager made sure to provide me that information (the contract specifically says that you need to *guarantee* your ability to be in the US for the final) in order to alleviate any concern shows that: a) they understood the implications of playing in the league, and b) they cared enough about being a part of it to go the extra mile. NightEnD didn't do this, nor did his manager. I obviously take some responsibility for not explicitly stating it, but neither him or his manager has taken any responsibility in the matter, and instead responds with harsh words to me and the league. This is unfair for us. In our internal discussions, we wanted to avoid people from countries who had VISA problems entering the US because those players are "high risk" for us (I.E. what happens if they qualify but can't come to the finals?), this is also why we only considered ONE player (BRAT_OK) from RoX, and none of their other players... the RoX manager didn't even submit applications for the other ones because he knew they didn't have and couldn't guarantee VISAS. We did research on various countries, and knew that Romania doesn't have a VISA waiver program with the US, and that it would be difficult for a Romanian to get a VISA, which is why we didn't have NightEnD on our list, and which was why he was on our backup list. So again, people should be aware that in life, there are always two parties and both hold responsibility. So u picked the 50 players and said x is not invited becouse y is not invited becouse NightEnD is not invited becouse he has no visa . How could u know that i dont have visa if u didnt even bother t to ask me ? Pls cut the crap ?? You've never demonstrated that you had one by attending an event in the US, and when we spoke, you didn't have one... I'm not going to argue with you any more. I'm sorry that I didn't specifically tell you before that you needed a VISA. I hope you will qualify for Season 2 or win the Open Tournament. yes man is my foult for not assuming somthing u already assumed I am not saying the NASL handled the situation well, or that you didn't get screwed over... but it seems like you are taking absolutely no responsibility for yourself. Did you know that you would have to travel to the US for this tournament if you made it far? Yes. Does traveling to the US require a VISA? Yes. Would it have been a good idea for you or your management to ask about it (since you knew you would need it if you were to play well)? Yes. Once again, I am not saying they handled it well... but come on. You guys could have also taken the initiative to ask some questions about the league. do u really think the koreans for example proved nasl they can take visa ? or the europeans?
neither koreans, nor most of the europeans actually need a visa to go to the US for a week or something.
i think in the case of this league it only came down to russia (bratok), ukraine (whitera), romania (you) and taiwan (sen) being "critical" from what i can see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Waiver_Program
bratok has made sure he could go, whitera has proven it in the past and sen is lucky to have xeris as manager(?) of team fnatic in that case and just as whitera attended a MLG even last year
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GAAAAAAWWWWD so much whining on this thread.
Have you people even looked at the players on that list? That's a pretty fucking exciting tournament right there. I even like the Division format.
No, it's not perfect, but its the first goddamn season. There will opportunities in the future for people that do deserve to play in the league to qualify. And I'm sure Xeris and everyone involved will become better and better at communicating the terms of these opportunities.
People that are bitching and moaning about InControl being in the tournament DON'T HAVE A FUCKING LEG TO STAND ON. Your pettiness is so transparent it's laughable.
Yes, I feel sorry for NightEnd, but there is a long, long list of Koreans and Europeans that deserve to be on this list as well. Hell, maybe NASL should just put the entire fucking tournament on hold so that they can work around NightEnd's, Huk's and Jinro's schedules.
I'm sorry for being so annoyed, but the sense of entitlement among some the posters here is ridiculous. These guys have put together an amazing tournament. If it's not good enough for you, fuck off and start your own.
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even as i dont think much of incontrol as a player u cant deny his fanbase which is rather huge i hear.
if u guys hate on a player like incontrol (u should cause strafe would be happy!) there are a handfull of other players nameworthy who dont deserve it either cause of the same reason incontrol doesnt deserve it plus they dont even ve the huge fanbase.
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On March 30 2011 08:06 Humdrum wrote:
. Can anyone legitimately say that the NASL isn't INSTANTLY more interesting with him in it? The same goes for Artosis.
It would be so glorious if iNcontrol won mlg this weekend.
I can. I don't particularly care for him, mostly because he just doesn't perform. Win MLG? Color me skeptical.
Artosis really has me pumped though, along with MC and July. Great finishing 5.
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U guys kinda shot urself in the foot when u disclosed the reasoning for some players, but not all. This leaves room for speculation for those who weren't mentioned. Many are wondering why Incontrol is in the league as a player, and the more u avoid the question, the more silly this is gonna get
Anyway, I'm really looking forward to this. I think it will be great, good mix of skill and entertainment in this. GL to all the players and thanx a million to the guys who has made this possible, cant wait:D
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this thread has made my head hurt for a long time, all this hate for players included makes my head hurt even more now. wow, normally professionals in sports take it in stride and show sportsmanlike conduct (oh check that out, SPORTSmanlike) yet from the pokebunny, avilo, blur, and now nightend complaints, it's been anything but sportsmanlike. Take a lesson from minigun, man up, and show em they were wrong, don't bitch like a little girl, it just makes you look pathetic.
The fact that NightEnd continually shows his lack of information just makes him lose more and more credibility throughout this thread.
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On March 30 2011 08:11 FliedLice wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 08:05 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:58 Chicane wrote:On March 30 2011 07:54 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:44 Xeris wrote:On March 30 2011 07:16 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:06 Xeris wrote:On March 30 2011 06:57 Bean54 wrote:
Xeris, you say you didnt accept NightEnD because he didn't already have a VISA. Did you even let the players know this was a requirement before or during the application process? Based on what it sounds like, you didn't. If not having a passport is a legitimate concern and is cause for disqualification you should have let NightEnD and all players know that BEFOREHAND so they could actually obtain one or fail to. Then you'd have a valid reason for disqualifying them. Sounds like you disqualified him for something that could easily have been remedied if you had let him know ahead of time. I didn't specifically tell the players, however, when I was approached by BRAT_OK's manager (from RoX), about the NASL, he actually provided me with BRAT's B1/2 VISA number that we verified. White-Ra has demonstrated his ability to get into the US before (I met him at MLG DC and Blizzcon, so I'm well aware he could get here). While it is true, I could have been clearer I guess, the ultimate burden of responsibility must be shared by both organizers and players. We are not here to hand-hold, and this is a two-way street. The fact that someone like BRAT's manager made sure to provide me that information (the contract specifically says that you need to *guarantee* your ability to be in the US for the final) in order to alleviate any concern shows that: a) they understood the implications of playing in the league, and b) they cared enough about being a part of it to go the extra mile. NightEnD didn't do this, nor did his manager. I obviously take some responsibility for not explicitly stating it, but neither him or his manager has taken any responsibility in the matter, and instead responds with harsh words to me and the league. This is unfair for us. In our internal discussions, we wanted to avoid people from countries who had VISA problems entering the US because those players are "high risk" for us (I.E. what happens if they qualify but can't come to the finals?), this is also why we only considered ONE player (BRAT_OK) from RoX, and none of their other players... the RoX manager didn't even submit applications for the other ones because he knew they didn't have and couldn't guarantee VISAS. We did research on various countries, and knew that Romania doesn't have a VISA waiver program with the US, and that it would be difficult for a Romanian to get a VISA, which is why we didn't have NightEnD on our list, and which was why he was on our backup list. So again, people should be aware that in life, there are always two parties and both hold responsibility. So u picked the 50 players and said x is not invited becouse y is not invited becouse NightEnD is not invited becouse he has no visa . How could u know that i dont have visa if u didnt even bother t to ask me ? Pls cut the crap ?? You've never demonstrated that you had one by attending an event in the US, and when we spoke, you didn't have one... I'm not going to argue with you any more. I'm sorry that I didn't specifically tell you before that you needed a VISA. I hope you will qualify for Season 2 or win the Open Tournament. yes man is my foult for not assuming somthing u already assumed I am not saying the NASL handled the situation well, or that you didn't get screwed over... but it seems like you are taking absolutely no responsibility for yourself. Did you know that you would have to travel to the US for this tournament if you made it far? Yes. Does traveling to the US require a VISA? Yes. Would it have been a good idea for you or your management to ask about it (since you knew you would need it if you were to play well)? Yes. Once again, I am not saying they handled it well... but come on. You guys could have also taken the initiative to ask some questions about the league. do u really think the koreans for example proved nasl they can take visa ? or the europeans? neither koreans, nor most of the europeans actually need a visa to go to the US for a week or something. i think in the case of this league it only came down to russia (bratok), ukraine (whitera), romania (you) and taiwan (sen) being "critical" from what i can see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Waiver_Programbratok has made sure he could go, whitera has proven it in the past and sen is lucky to have xeris as manager(?) of team fnatic in that case and just as whitera attended a MLG even last year
Actually Poland is in the same situation as Romania at the moment. I assume you checked with Mana they are both "Road Map" countries and in the EU.
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On March 30 2011 08:05 NightEnD wrote:do u really think the koreans for example proved nasl they can take visa ? or the europeans ?
I think this was clearly explained in Xeris' first post. South Korea is a participant in the Visa Waiver Program. As such, South Korean residents do not need to obtain a visa in order to visit the United States. The same goes for many European countries, including Germany, France, Italy, Greece, Sweden, etc.
Why would someone who does not need a VISA to visit the US be required to prove they can get one? The requirement is simply inapplicable to them.
For the record, I think it would have been much better for them to spell out any visa requirements in the application, to have given players in your situation a chance to obtain them before the deadline. In that, you were wronged (or at least the victim of an unfortunate situation). However, you're not doing yourself any favors by trying to draw fire (especially when it's just factually incorrect) to everyone else.
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On March 30 2011 08:05 NightEnD wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:58 Chicane wrote:On March 30 2011 07:54 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:44 Xeris wrote:On March 30 2011 07:16 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:06 Xeris wrote:On March 30 2011 06:57 Bean54 wrote:
Xeris, you say you didnt accept NightEnD because he didn't already have a VISA. Did you even let the players know this was a requirement before or during the application process? Based on what it sounds like, you didn't. If not having a passport is a legitimate concern and is cause for disqualification you should have let NightEnD and all players know that BEFOREHAND so they could actually obtain one or fail to. Then you'd have a valid reason for disqualifying them. Sounds like you disqualified him for something that could easily have been remedied if you had let him know ahead of time. I didn't specifically tell the players, however, when I was approached by BRAT_OK's manager (from RoX), about the NASL, he actually provided me with BRAT's B1/2 VISA number that we verified. White-Ra has demonstrated his ability to get into the US before (I met him at MLG DC and Blizzcon, so I'm well aware he could get here). While it is true, I could have been clearer I guess, the ultimate burden of responsibility must be shared by both organizers and players. We are not here to hand-hold, and this is a two-way street. The fact that someone like BRAT's manager made sure to provide me that information (the contract specifically says that you need to *guarantee* your ability to be in the US for the final) in order to alleviate any concern shows that: a) they understood the implications of playing in the league, and b) they cared enough about being a part of it to go the extra mile. NightEnD didn't do this, nor did his manager. I obviously take some responsibility for not explicitly stating it, but neither him or his manager has taken any responsibility in the matter, and instead responds with harsh words to me and the league. This is unfair for us. In our internal discussions, we wanted to avoid people from countries who had VISA problems entering the US because those players are "high risk" for us (I.E. what happens if they qualify but can't come to the finals?), this is also why we only considered ONE player (BRAT_OK) from RoX, and none of their other players... the RoX manager didn't even submit applications for the other ones because he knew they didn't have and couldn't guarantee VISAS. We did research on various countries, and knew that Romania doesn't have a VISA waiver program with the US, and that it would be difficult for a Romanian to get a VISA, which is why we didn't have NightEnD on our list, and which was why he was on our backup list. So again, people should be aware that in life, there are always two parties and both hold responsibility. So u picked the 50 players and said x is not invited becouse y is not invited becouse NightEnD is not invited becouse he has no visa . How could u know that i dont have visa if u didnt even bother t to ask me ? Pls cut the crap ?? You've never demonstrated that you had one by attending an event in the US, and when we spoke, you didn't have one... I'm not going to argue with you any more. I'm sorry that I didn't specifically tell you before that you needed a VISA. I hope you will qualify for Season 2 or win the Open Tournament. yes man is my foult for not assuming somthing u already assumed I am not saying the NASL handled the situation well, or that you didn't get screwed over... but it seems like you are taking absolutely no responsibility for yourself. Did you know that you would have to travel to the US for this tournament if you made it far? Yes. Does traveling to the US require a VISA? Yes. Would it have been a good idea for you or your management to ask about it (since you knew you would need it if you were to play well)? Yes. Once again, I am not saying they handled it well... but come on. You guys could have also taken the initiative to ask some questions about the league. When xiris aproched me i asked him if i have to move to US to play NASL and he said no only top 16 have to come in US .. so why would i think about visa when he said top 16 and why didnt he told me that i need a visa ...u guys just missing one point its not about the visa... do u really think the koreans for example proved nasl they can take visa ? or the europeans ? :D like me they didnt even know about the visa thing only if they werent told do u think all 50 assumed that they need a visa and said lets ask nasl mb they need us to prove we can take a visa so we have to be sure we get it? ofc not .. if i was playing for mouz fnatic sk etc im sure i would not have this kind of problem atm
South Korea and most European countries are part of the Visa Waiver Program - this means they can enter the United States for up to 90 days without a Visa. Romania is not part of the Visa Waiver Program so Romanian citizens do need a Visa.
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On March 30 2011 07:54 NightEnD wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:44 Xeris wrote:On March 30 2011 07:16 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:06 Xeris wrote:On March 30 2011 06:57 Bean54 wrote:
Xeris, you say you didnt accept NightEnD because he didn't already have a VISA. Did you even let the players know this was a requirement before or during the application process? Based on what it sounds like, you didn't. If not having a passport is a legitimate concern and is cause for disqualification you should have let NightEnD and all players know that BEFOREHAND so they could actually obtain one or fail to. Then you'd have a valid reason for disqualifying them. Sounds like you disqualified him for something that could easily have been remedied if you had let him know ahead of time. I didn't specifically tell the players, however, when I was approached by BRAT_OK's manager (from RoX), about the NASL, he actually provided me with BRAT's B1/2 VISA number that we verified. White-Ra has demonstrated his ability to get into the US before (I met him at MLG DC and Blizzcon, so I'm well aware he could get here). While it is true, I could have been clearer I guess, the ultimate burden of responsibility must be shared by both organizers and players. We are not here to hand-hold, and this is a two-way street. The fact that someone like BRAT's manager made sure to provide me that information (the contract specifically says that you need to *guarantee* your ability to be in the US for the final) in order to alleviate any concern shows that: a) they understood the implications of playing in the league, and b) they cared enough about being a part of it to go the extra mile. NightEnD didn't do this, nor did his manager. I obviously take some responsibility for not explicitly stating it, but neither him or his manager has taken any responsibility in the matter, and instead responds with harsh words to me and the league. This is unfair for us. In our internal discussions, we wanted to avoid people from countries who had VISA problems entering the US because those players are "high risk" for us (I.E. what happens if they qualify but can't come to the finals?), this is also why we only considered ONE player (BRAT_OK) from RoX, and none of their other players... the RoX manager didn't even submit applications for the other ones because he knew they didn't have and couldn't guarantee VISAS. We did research on various countries, and knew that Romania doesn't have a VISA waiver program with the US, and that it would be difficult for a Romanian to get a VISA, which is why we didn't have NightEnD on our list, and which was why he was on our backup list. So again, people should be aware that in life, there are always two parties and both hold responsibility. So u picked the 50 players and said x is not invited becouse y is not invited becouse NightEnD is not invited becouse he has no visa . How could u know that i dont have visa if u didnt even bother t to ask me ? Pls cut the crap ?? You've never demonstrated that you had one by attending an event in the US, and when we spoke, you didn't have one... I'm not going to argue with you any more. I'm sorry that I didn't specifically tell you before that you needed a VISA. I hope you will qualify for Season 2 or win the Open Tournament. yes man is my foult for not assuming somthing u already assumed
NightEnd, it's a shame you didn't make it in, you're a very good player...We understand that you're upset and disappointed, but posting 3 times per page about how awful it is, and how it's all their fault is very unbecoming, and is starting to be obnoxious. A little responsibility for yourself would go a long way - the NASL was justified in not taking you for the reasons they stated. Shit happens, and if shit did happen, and your VISA was denied, they would look like idiots if you were to make the finals, but unable to actually be there..
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EPT
