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Players such as Jinro, HuK, and Adelscott did not apply for this tour, so don't ask why they aren't on this list. DIMAGA, Kas, and LaLush turned applications in late so they will not appear either. Please take some time to learn who exactly applied. Please inform yourself about who applied and who didn't. |
On March 30 2011 07:55 Minigun wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:45 Bean54 wrote:On March 30 2011 07:15 Minigun wrote:On March 30 2011 07:09 Bean54 wrote:On March 30 2011 07:00 Minigun wrote:
To those negatively critizing the nasl...
Does everyone realize how big e-sports can get in the NA if this booms?
It will be huge, it's getting huge as we speak.
It's a list of 50 people. Unfortunately that means not every top player can get it.
They need to make money off it as well. So not only do they invite top players, but people the community favorites.
If there are players that don't belong, then they will be weeded out pretty fast. They may have taken your favorite players spot, but there's always next season, and if they really deserve to be there, then they will probably be able to get through using the qualifier. I'm not sure how well I would have done if they through me in there now. I can't say I would be confident playing someone like ogsmc in a tournament. Although I would love the chance too (favorite protoss player <3)
Nasl is a business. I want to watch it grow. Am I little disappointed I didn't get in? Ofc..but will there be other chances to get in, other turnys (especially if the NASL takes off) ? Yes.
Starcraft 2 is so close to becoming huge in the NA. Instead of negatively criticizing one of the first businesses to actually try and expand E-sports in the west. Lets give it our unconditional support. Starcraft 2 can be huge, but only if the community supports it.
We all want it to succeed. However, if the business wants support from the community, it should do its best to represent and treat the community fairly as well. People have valid criticisms of how their applications were handled that should be remedied rather than glanced over just because the business is hosting the tournament of a game we all love. Just because we want a e-sports to be big doesn't mean we turn a blind eye and give the NASL or any other tournament carte blanche to pick favorites and disregard hard-working and deserving players. The NASL depend on our viewership and the viewers should be heard (support AND criticism). There will be problems and people felt like they were "wronged" in every tournament. It's just unavoidable for the most part. (I'm not saying anyone was or wasn't, staying out of that because it's not really my business.) I think you are missing how extremely hard it would be for someone to pick 50 top players, out of koreans, eu, and na. I would pull my hair out. It's IMPOSSIBLE to not leave people out. I can think of a few iffy players on that list, but im keeping my opinion out of it. It doesn't matter if there are a few iffy players. NASL are one of the first businesses to put themselves out there, and try and do something amazing for e-sports and starcraft 2. I'm not going to not support them because someone I think was deserving didn't get in. There's always the next tournament. A perfect list would look 100% different for everyone. Did people who deserved to get in not get in? Of course, that would have happened no matter who made the list. whether it was me, you, or someone who was completely unbiased. Well see, it is your business because YOU were overlooked for as you call them, "iffy players." And that characterization, makes your opinion rather evident that you believe there are unqualified players or people that don't deserve to be there. AND YES IT DOES MATTER because legitimately good players LIKE YOURSELF are excluded and that matters to the viewers. I understand your desire to get in future tournaments and thus the incentive to avoid confrontation with the NASL but you should let others speak and stop defending the NASL's choices when you should have been on that list. We'll lets look at it this way from their viewpoint. I will use myself so I don't insult anyone. -qualifications of rootminigun -has no lan experience -did not play sc1 -is a ladder whore ( -_- ) -has played in a small amount of online turnys I usually place well in every turny, but that should motivate me to play more turnys, but for some reason I don't. I can only blame myself for not being invited
Having no lan experiance but placing well in every tournament you enter is much better than having LAN experiance and not doing good in any tournament.
You are considered an underdog because of the things you list but in actuality, many of the invites would be underdogs against you
Also apparantly saying over and over that you want to win so bad is much more impressive than actually winning. Stop fucking talking about how you want to win so much, Incontrol. EVERYONE WANTS TO WIN. You simply haven't won, or even pulled your weight in anything you do in clan leagues.
You took a spot from much much more well deserved players. I don't know Nightend, but I always see his name in the top of small tournaments with Goody/Socke/Kas etc, he might win them all but his results are definitely better than you by FAR in SC2.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On March 30 2011 07:45 Bean54 wrote:
I understand your desire to get in future tournaments and thus the incentive to avoid confrontation with the NASL but you should let others speak and stop defending the NASL's choices when you should have been on that list.
Wow. Talk about the very definition of "damned if you do, damned if you don't."
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Edit: Decided I didn't want to get involved in that post if it's not too late. 
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On March 30 2011 07:39 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:32 Phaint wrote:On March 30 2011 07:29 iNcontroL wrote:On March 30 2011 07:28 Phaint wrote:On March 30 2011 07:26 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:20 Defacer wrote:On March 30 2011 07:16 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:06 Xeris wrote:On March 30 2011 06:57 Bean54 wrote:
Xeris, you say you didnt accept NightEnD because he didn't already have a VISA. Did you even let the players know this was a requirement before or during the application process? Based on what it sounds like, you didn't. If not having a passport is a legitimate concern and is cause for disqualification you should have let NightEnD and all players know that BEFOREHAND so they could actually obtain one or fail to. Then you'd have a valid reason for disqualifying them. Sounds like you disqualified him for something that could easily have been remedied if you had let him know ahead of time. I didn't specifically tell the players, however, when I was approached by BRAT_OK's manager (from RoX), about the NASL, he actually provided me with BRAT's B1/2 VISA number that we verified. White-Ra has demonstrated his ability to get into the US before (I met him at MLG DC and Blizzcon, so I'm well aware he could get here). While it is true, I could have been clearer I guess, the ultimate burden of responsibility must be shared by both organizers and players. We are not here to hand-hold, and this is a two-way street. The fact that someone like BRAT's manager made sure to provide me that information (the contract specifically says that you need to *guarantee* your ability to be in the US for the final) in order to alleviate any concern shows that: a) they understood the implications of playing in the league, and b) they cared enough about being a part of it to go the extra mile. NightEnD didn't do this, nor did his manager. I obviously take some responsibility for not explicitly stating it, but neither him or his manager has taken any responsibility in the matter, and instead responds with harsh words to me and the league. This is unfair for us. In our internal discussions, we wanted to avoid people from countries who had VISA problems entering the US because those players are "high risk" for us (I.E. what happens if they qualify but can't come to the finals?), this is also why we only considered ONE player (BRAT_OK) from RoX, and none of their other players... the RoX manager didn't even submit applications for the other ones because he knew they didn't have and couldn't guarantee VISAS. We did research on various countries, and knew that Romania doesn't have a VISA waiver program with the US, and that it would be difficult for a Romanian to get a VISA, which is why we didn't have NightEnD on our list, and which was why he was on our backup list. So again, people should be aware that in life, there are always two parties and both hold responsibility. So u picked the 50 players and said x is not invited becouse y is not invited becouse NightEnD is not invited becouse he has no visa . How could u know that i dont have visa if u didnt even bother t to ask me ? Pls cut the crap Nightend: I don't know you or Xeris personally, but let it go. Next season, man; next season. Complaining now isn't going to get you any closer to what you want at this point. after how much i ''cryed' now mark my words i will not be invited in 2nd season or in 3 they will find an excuse like this if not a bigger one . Its run by Xeris and iNControl. You bet your bottom dollar you will never see an invite (but latter seasons aren't run by invites so don't worry champ  ) No. It isn't ran by me. I've said this countless times. Also why the hell would we have a grudge against him? He is a fantastic player... obviously he is upset with not being selected for this league.. anybody who cares about this game would be (100% understandable). Why do you feel the need to try and stir a pot that doesn't exist? How'd ya get that invite then? Your achievements don't even compare to 49th least achievement earning person on the list. SooOOOOooOOO you flame randomly. I tell you that you are wrong and basing opinions on things that are wrong... and you come back with some kind of an attack on me? Did you catch the part where the NASL people said they didn't recruit based on money earnings? There were other factors... race played, region, fame and skill all played a part. I am sorry you are so against me. I will work really hard to make you look dumb for holding some sort of grudge against me. Pardon me sir while I try and play this game at the highest level! I love it when people flame me for not winning a tourney or something... you think I play this game NOT to win? I am trying harder than 99% of each person who flames me to play this game as best I can. For some, they recognize that I can and do do well (top 20 MLG in all 3 attended / various accomplishments in BW - the harder game). For others, they try and get at me with that simple fact. It's odd... but it's fine. I am 100% completely fueled by the haters/doubters. To those that support me - THANK YOU. I too am motivated to do you guys proud <3 I am sorry I give so much attention to the haters 
iNc, you are always ban-hammering your stream's chat and publicly insulting people at the highest level - you have nothing to apologize for. Go get 'em in the NASL, vanilla bear. 
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On March 30 2011 07:47 UnholyRai wrote:
Why are people flaming incontrol so much?
People always like to pick a target.
NASL is all about creating the most exciting league around. Incontrol is one of the biggest personalities around and therefore all his games will create excitement.
It's like if Day9 wanted to play, he would be instantly added even though he hasn't played professionally for years.
SlayersBoxer is not performing at the moment. Does that mean he shouldn't be invited either?
Why do you think all these application forms were made? It's because NASL wants to create excitement.
Add this to what Incontrols already said, and I think people can maybe understand a little?
I don't usually ever bother arguing on forums, but I made an effort here because I'm a fan of Incontrol.
People are picking on InControl because he is one of the most famous and valuable contributors to the SC2 community.
It's called sour grapes.
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Alright dude... this happens like 2-3 times a day but I try and get up on my soap box and preach reason but then I hear something like this and I am like "Ah! When Day9/Wheat/Artosis/Tasteless tell me to 100% not post/read TL any more because it will always devolve into this I NEED to listen."
Don't do it! For every troll there is a fan! Sotg is one of my favourite things and your stream is awesome as well. I don't care if you are the best player, or if Day9 is the best player, or any of the big community guys are. You're popular because you guys are awesome. How many people watch your stream, or listen to sotg, or buy coaching from you because they think you suck? I guess i'm trying to say i wish you guys wouldn't abandon the forums because of the trolls, because even though they exist, there are probably way more people who enjoy reading your post and following your other social contributions to starcraft.
Good luck at MLG and in the NASL, ill be watching
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On March 30 2011 07:50 Nimic wrote:
So if NightEnD failed to get in because he didn't pre-emptively prove his ability to get a visa, does that mean everyone else had to do the same. Or is it just because he's from Romania, and BratOK, a player from "one of those countries" has had some problems getting a visa in the past?
Thing is, Romania is in the European Union. There's no reason to expect that he'd have any more problems getting into the US than any other player from Europe.
I'm still quite excited about the NASL, but this and the DeMusliM thing makes me a little bit weary. Wasn't there also an issue where Jinro or Huk (one of the TL guys) said that oGs had NOT been contacted, contrary to what NASL had stated? (Not specifically oGs, but I am sure they stated Korean teams had been or would be contacted, and if oGs isn't the first team you approach I don't know what is).
You've got the potential to make something brilliant here. The cracks are starting to show, but I hope you keep it up and get it done. I'll probably get a Premium pass, or whatever you choose to call it.
Please, don't respond to random posts without actually reading the full discussion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_Waiver_Program
The Visa Waiver Program allows people from certain countries to enter the United States without a Visa. Romania is not one of those countries yet, which means NightEnd would need a Visa to enter the United States.
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On March 30 2011 07:52 SiguR wrote:
Personal preferences on players aside, I think this little debacle is more evidence towards what many people (including some translated korean netizen comments) have been saying: this league is being managed in a rather amateur fashion.
It is absolutely moronic to deny applications due to criteria that was never made known to the applicants and never properly investigated. If you don't tell players they need to have a hard copy of their visa available when they apply, it is asinine to expect them to know they need one. I would imagine brat_ok made it clear he had his visa issues worked out because he has had many visa issues in the past few months. You can't expect players like night end to guess what your criteria is, no matter how intuitive you feel it should be.
It is clear that you guys are not experts in this field, as it is a new scene for north america.. However, your reluctance to show an open mind towards criticism these past weeks is extremely troublesome. If you make a poor application process and people get screwed over, the proper response is not to show complete solidarity in your decision making and come up with on the spot excuses for why certain players were or weren't invited.
Guaranteeing that you can be in the United States means that you need a VISA to come to the United States. This is a slippery slope argument - at what point do players become responsible, in your opinion? As I said before, I'm not sure why you're saying we don't respond to criticism... I'm sorry that I didn't explicitly state it.
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On March 30 2011 07:56 ImHuko wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:55 Minigun wrote:On March 30 2011 07:45 Bean54 wrote:On March 30 2011 07:15 Minigun wrote:On March 30 2011 07:09 Bean54 wrote:On March 30 2011 07:00 Minigun wrote:
To those negatively critizing the nasl...
Does everyone realize how big e-sports can get in the NA if this booms?
It will be huge, it's getting huge as we speak.
It's a list of 50 people. Unfortunately that means not every top player can get it.
They need to make money off it as well. So not only do they invite top players, but people the community favorites.
If there are players that don't belong, then they will be weeded out pretty fast. They may have taken your favorite players spot, but there's always next season, and if they really deserve to be there, then they will probably be able to get through using the qualifier. I'm not sure how well I would have done if they through me in there now. I can't say I would be confident playing someone like ogsmc in a tournament. Although I would love the chance too (favorite protoss player <3)
Nasl is a business. I want to watch it grow. Am I little disappointed I didn't get in? Ofc..but will there be other chances to get in, other turnys (especially if the NASL takes off) ? Yes.
Starcraft 2 is so close to becoming huge in the NA. Instead of negatively criticizing one of the first businesses to actually try and expand E-sports in the west. Lets give it our unconditional support. Starcraft 2 can be huge, but only if the community supports it.
We all want it to succeed. However, if the business wants support from the community, it should do its best to represent and treat the community fairly as well. People have valid criticisms of how their applications were handled that should be remedied rather than glanced over just because the business is hosting the tournament of a game we all love. Just because we want a e-sports to be big doesn't mean we turn a blind eye and give the NASL or any other tournament carte blanche to pick favorites and disregard hard-working and deserving players. The NASL depend on our viewership and the viewers should be heard (support AND criticism). There will be problems and people felt like they were "wronged" in every tournament. It's just unavoidable for the most part. (I'm not saying anyone was or wasn't, staying out of that because it's not really my business.) I think you are missing how extremely hard it would be for someone to pick 50 top players, out of koreans, eu, and na. I would pull my hair out. It's IMPOSSIBLE to not leave people out. I can think of a few iffy players on that list, but im keeping my opinion out of it. It doesn't matter if there are a few iffy players. NASL are one of the first businesses to put themselves out there, and try and do something amazing for e-sports and starcraft 2. I'm not going to not support them because someone I think was deserving didn't get in. There's always the next tournament. A perfect list would look 100% different for everyone. Did people who deserved to get in not get in? Of course, that would have happened no matter who made the list. whether it was me, you, or someone who was completely unbiased. Well see, it is your business because YOU were overlooked for as you call them, "iffy players." And that characterization, makes your opinion rather evident that you believe there are unqualified players or people that don't deserve to be there. AND YES IT DOES MATTER because legitimately good players LIKE YOURSELF are excluded and that matters to the viewers. I understand your desire to get in future tournaments and thus the incentive to avoid confrontation with the NASL but you should let others speak and stop defending the NASL's choices when you should have been on that list. We'll lets look at it this way from their viewpoint. I will use myself so I don't insult anyone. -qualifications of rootminigun -has no lan experience -did not play sc1 -is a ladder whore ( -_- ) -has played in a small amount of online turnys I usually place well in every turny, but that should motivate me to play more turnys, but for some reason I don't. I can only blame myself for not being invited Having no lan experiance but placing well in every tournament you enter is much better than having LAN experiance and not doing good in any tournament.
you just missed the point of what Minigun just said...
Minigun just said "I wasn't chosen because I didn't do enough to get my name out there, other players did"
That is what he said. Minigun is taking the road of a champion.
Every time he loses, he looks at something he can do to better himself. Look at that man.
Minigun worked his way up from gold league to becoming one of the best toss on the US server.
Then he gets shot down for the NASL, and here he is defending the tournament that he believes in.
It doesn't matter to Minigun that he didn't get in, it just matters that the NASL is happening. He is happy for the players that got in, and thinks that we should be to.
Its an amazing opportunity, and its not like there are no chances for new players in the NASL, there are going to be 16 slots that rotate every season. Players just need to place well, and they will get a slot.
Minigun is going to train his ass off to get even better, win 1st place in the open tournament, then crush the NASL season 1 .
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On March 30 2011 07:51 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:50 Phaint wrote:
Haha iNControl the face of a league handling criticism with class.
I think I speak for alot of people when I say I'm happy you are on the list; can't wait to see you get manhandled by literally any other person in this league. Why are you posting? If you're busy trying harder than 99% of us shouldn't you be in game?
Does NASL have 50 trophies made because everyones a winner? Anybody? Am I literally reading this guy correctly?
Nah you read it correctly man, I know it's surprising but he is pretty much the only guy who wants you in the league :p .
Joking aside though, you must have known this was coming. Even you must admit to the average guy looking in, it reeks of favouritism a bit. I'm not saying it was, but that's how it looks.
Now you're a good player clearly, i watch your stream quite often and SotG but i personally don't think you should have been in this season . Not because you're a bad player, you're really good and i like you. You've done a lot for all of us and the community but because the other applicants (in my opinion at least which is obviously subjective) were stronger.
That being said, what is done is done. We're not going to get anywhere keep arguing about it and i think it should be put to rest now. I hope you prove us all wrong about thinking you should not have been in the league and perform well. Heck maybe get that first win so we can't keep bashing you with it. If you do i know i will personally hold my hands up and say y'know what, i was wrong. He deserved his spot.
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Will players that participate in the 1024 Open Qualifier need to provide proof of their visa's before competing in case they win?
I ask this seriously simply due to the fact that Nightend wouldn't of needed his Visa till he knew for a FACT(A month down the line) he would be traveling to California by getting into the top 16. Where as winning the Open assumes you are ready to go.
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I suspect that some poor sod is gonna go 0-9 in this league.
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On March 30 2011 07:40 NightEnD wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:38 Insanious wrote:On March 30 2011 07:37 TheHova wrote:On March 30 2011 07:35 Anihc wrote:On March 30 2011 07:32 Phaint wrote:On March 30 2011 07:29 iNcontroL wrote:On March 30 2011 07:28 Phaint wrote:On March 30 2011 07:26 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:20 Defacer wrote:On March 30 2011 07:16 NightEnD wrote:
[quote]
So u picked the 50 players and said x is not invited becouse y is not invited becouse NightEnD is not invited becouse he has no visa . How could u know that i dont have visa if u didnt even bother t to ask me ? Pls cut the crap
Nightend: I don't know you or Xeris personally, but let it go. Next season, man; next season. Complaining now isn't going to get you any closer to what you want at this point. after how much i ''cryed' now mark my words i will not be invited in 2nd season or in 3 they will find an excuse like this if not a bigger one . Its run by Xeris and iNControl. You bet your bottom dollar you will never see an invite (but latter seasons aren't run by invites so don't worry champ ) No. It isn't ran by me. I've said this countless times. Also why the hell would we have a grudge against him? He is a fantastic player... obviously he is upset with not being selected for this league.. anybody who cares about this game would be (100% understandable). Why do you feel the need to try and stir a pot that doesn't exist? How'd ya get that invite then? Your achievements don't even compare to 49th least achievement earning person on the list. Achievement/skill isn't the only selection criteria. Having a large fan base gets you in as well. People with larger fan bases didn't get invited. DeMusliM has a whole country supporting him, the same for NightEnd. Heck i don't think he's skilled enough to be in the tournament but if it's a popularity contest. Destiny gets 8k viewers in the late hours sometimes and consistently gets around 2k. No more than iNcontroL gets. DeMusliM didn't get in because of his hand NightEnD didn't get in because of visa problems Destiny is a zerg and as such would have to replace one of the other zergs iNcontrol has a larger fan base than Minigun (saddly) I have no visa problems i got my passport for example in 2 hours and i would get visa in 1 week but i had no ideea i need visa :D so as of said i wont play in NASL
The visa application might be not accepted by the issueing state (US). If nationals of a certain state have a history of abusing visa, they are denied most of the time or tight preconditions are set out (tough interviews at the embassy, proof of your empoyer for the necessity of the travel, clear date of your return etc). Furthermore, if the application process is thourough, it can last a couple of weeks or even months.
Beside that being shafted happens to everyone in life.
I applied for a position at the interior ministry of northrhine westphalia 6 months ago and went through an assessment center. I was rejected, because I opened a door during my presentation when someone knocked on it. They stated, I should have only called the person in, opening the door was not modern anymore. Beside this they allotted good parts of my presentation to one of the other applicants and said I should have done like him. I simply said thank you and moved on. Let it go.
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lol at the people flaming incontrol. Not only is he a great SC2 player, but he was a big name int he BW scene, and is a huge figure in the community. He devotes a ton of time to SOTG, he streams just about more than anyone else, and he actually talks on stream about what hes doing so people can learn. He even streams a lot of his paid lessons, things that help a ton of players to see.
I'd love to see all of the people who are flaming him's accomplishments.
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On March 30 2011 07:51 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:50 Phaint wrote:
Haha iNControl the face of a league handling criticism with class.
I think I speak for alot of people when I say I'm happy you are on the list; can't wait to see you get manhandled by literally any other person in this league. Why are you posting? If you're busy trying harder than 99% of us shouldn't you be in game?
Does NASL have 50 trophies made because everyones a winner? Anybody? Am I literally reading this guy correctly?
Think it's just easier to ignore people like that. You of all people should have realised this by now
If you try to address every single person on the net that wants to criticise you or have some varying opinion you're never going to win. Anonymity ftw!
Better off just looking at it, if you justify it with a response then I guess it gives people the idea that you'll keep on respondin to them, i.e 'feeding the trolls'.
Said it before, as did Tyler I think, when the 50 names for the tourney would be released there would be complains as you cannot make everyone happy, simple as that.
I'm gunna add to this, as it's a problem of self entitlement that the internet brings as people can be much more vocal then they would normally be as there are a very few number of people who would be as vocal in real life as they are when they assume their internet persona's.
Too be honest I'm very critical of players as I watch alot of SC2 and find myself being very opinionated but I have the good sense to keep that opinion to myself or just between my friends, I don't need to go to the forums and badmouth players simply because I didn't like their performance or they beat someone I really like in a fashion that I don't like. I get over it and I look for the next games.
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Reading through these last couple of pages filled with ridiculous amounts of hate and flaming has warped my brain a tad so I apologize for not wording this as eloquently as I would have liked. With that being said...
Shut the fuck up.
This tournament is not your right. It's a privilege. Grow up, this tournament is one of many things pushing western e-sports. Oh, and re-read the list of players. If you can find less than 15 people you are actually interested in watching games of, even if it's so you can see them get smashed, then I will personally swallow a sword (I won't wimp out like Artosis).
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On March 30 2011 07:50 FliedLice wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:46 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:44 iNcontroL wrote:On March 30 2011 07:33 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:29 iNcontroL wrote:On March 30 2011 07:28 Phaint wrote:On March 30 2011 07:26 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:20 Defacer wrote:On March 30 2011 07:16 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:06 Xeris wrote:
[quote]
I didn't specifically tell the players, however, when I was approached by BRAT_OK's manager (from RoX), about the NASL, he actually provided me with BRAT's B1/2 VISA number that we verified. White-Ra has demonstrated his ability to get into the US before (I met him at MLG DC and Blizzcon, so I'm well aware he could get here). While it is true, I could have been clearer I guess, the ultimate burden of responsibility must be shared by both organizers and players. We are not here to hand-hold, and this is a two-way street.
The fact that someone like BRAT's manager made sure to provide me that information (the contract specifically says that you need to *guarantee* your ability to be in the US for the final) in order to alleviate any concern shows that: a) they understood the implications of playing in the league, and b) they cared enough about being a part of it to go the extra mile. NightEnD didn't do this, nor did his manager.
I obviously take some responsibility for not explicitly stating it, but neither him or his manager has taken any responsibility in the matter, and instead responds with harsh words to me and the league. This is unfair for us. In our internal discussions, we wanted to avoid people from countries who had VISA problems entering the US because those players are "high risk" for us (I.E. what happens if they qualify but can't come to the finals?), this is also why we only considered ONE player (BRAT_OK) from RoX, and none of their other players... the RoX manager didn't even submit applications for the other ones because he knew they didn't have and couldn't guarantee VISAS.
We did research on various countries, and knew that Romania doesn't have a VISA waiver program with the US, and that it would be difficult for a Romanian to get a VISA, which is why we didn't have NightEnD on our list, and which was why he was on our backup list.
So again, people should be aware that in life, there are always two parties and both hold responsibility. So u picked the 50 players and said x is not invited becouse y is not invited becouse NightEnD is not invited becouse he has no visa . How could u know that i dont have visa if u didnt even bother t to ask me ? Pls cut the crap Nightend: I don't know you or Xeris personally, but let it go. Next season, man; next season. Complaining now isn't going to get you any closer to what you want at this point. after how much i ''cryed' now mark my words i will not be invited in 2nd season or in 3 they will find an excuse like this if not a bigger one . Its run by Xeris and iNControl. You bet your bottom dollar you will never see an invite (but latter seasons aren't run by invites so don't worry champ ) No. It isn't ran by me. I've said this countless times. Also why the hell would we have a grudge against him? He is a fantastic player... obviously he is upset with not being selected for this league.. anybody who cares about this game would be (100% understandable). Why do you feel the need to try and stir a pot that doesn't exist? You had to invited grubby somehow or he just got lucky i suppose ? becouse i didnt tought i have to prove u i can take a visa :D Not sure what your point is? Grubby travels on a regular basis. He also is one of the most famous players in all of RTS... Again I did not select the players. But I don't understand the "I didn't get picked so now I will go down the list and talk smack about each pick" mentality. There is a reason Minigun is a fucking champion. I truly am sorry you are not selected for this tourney. It sucks. No way to fluff it really. GL in the open / season 2 qualifier. You are a great player and I hope you make it! If i understand corectly ur picking sistem is that if i was invited grubby would not be or im wrong ? and i didnt smack any pick dont warry Show nested quote +How did we group the players?
The first thing we did is separate teammates – we put all teammates in different groups. The next thing we did was to look at fun and exciting rivals and try to pair them: I.E. IdrA vs Tyler, Zenio… and Grubby vs Moon. After this, we attempted to create an equal balance between races and regions. Two Koreans were placed in each group, and each group has a balance of 4-3-3 (races). We also used our selection process to help the grouping, separating those selected in the first round in different groups, etc.
Overall, we chose 3-4 players (Artosis, Grubby, MoMaN) who were designated as “fan favorites” and 3-4 players (ViBe, CrunCher, DarkforcE) who may be considered “underdogs.” The rest of the players were chosen based on their results and skill level. I don't think it was a thing between you and Grubby really.
I've been trying to think of a constructive way to put this for the last couple of pages, but I think it's a good mix of who I think can win and who I just want to see play. I don't think Grubby is a good target for Nightend to pinpoint, is he as good as Nightend, mabye not, but if I had to choose who I'd want to watch in the league, I'd take Grubby also, and I think there are a lot of people who would agree. Please don't take this the wrong way, I mean, it's Grubby, as a wc player you've got to know what I mean. SlayerS_Boxer is another great example of this, even now his presence legitimizes a tournament even though I don't think anyone has him picked as a champion.
I would doubt that anyone is a fan of all 50, I mean really, it would take a zombie. People on the acceptance committee probably did a little "ok you can have him if I can have him", I bet most of them would have a different ideal 50.
This is compounded by the fact that it's very difficult to judge the skill of a Protoss in the current state of the game. Honestly have you heard anyone in the last 4 months list vP in an interview as a strong matchup, even Protoss hate to play Protoss.
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On March 30 2011 07:51 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:50 Phaint wrote:
Haha iNControl the face of a league handling criticism with class.
I think I speak for alot of people when I say I'm happy you are on the list; can't wait to see you get manhandled by literally any other person in this league. Why are you posting? If you're busy trying harder than 99% of us shouldn't you be in game?
Does NASL have 50 trophies made because everyones a winner? Anybody? Am I literally reading this guy correctly?
Don't waste your time on this. There is clearly no reasoning with him, he's getting the exact reaction out of you he wants. It's his 5 minutes of fame just let him have it and walk away.
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I think this all brings up an interesting issue in "esports", at least with respect to the Starcraft community. People on the thread have been saying how unprofessional, amateurish even, the tournament has been handled. How this is holding back the sport.
Maybe its the whiny, crying fans who are holding it back. The wailing and gnashing of teeth I've seen on the forums, about imbalance, unfairness, bad-manners, etc... is as repulsive as it is pathetic. It is seriously a huge turn-off to me, and others I know. Granted, most fans aren't like this, but it only takes a few to spoil the bunch. Man up or grow up or shut up. You don't like the tournament? Start your own. But please, don't ruin it for others.
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On March 30 2011 07:58 Chicane wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:54 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:44 Xeris wrote:On March 30 2011 07:16 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:06 Xeris wrote:On March 30 2011 06:57 Bean54 wrote:
Xeris, you say you didnt accept NightEnD because he didn't already have a VISA. Did you even let the players know this was a requirement before or during the application process? Based on what it sounds like, you didn't. If not having a passport is a legitimate concern and is cause for disqualification you should have let NightEnD and all players know that BEFOREHAND so they could actually obtain one or fail to. Then you'd have a valid reason for disqualifying them. Sounds like you disqualified him for something that could easily have been remedied if you had let him know ahead of time. I didn't specifically tell the players, however, when I was approached by BRAT_OK's manager (from RoX), about the NASL, he actually provided me with BRAT's B1/2 VISA number that we verified. White-Ra has demonstrated his ability to get into the US before (I met him at MLG DC and Blizzcon, so I'm well aware he could get here). While it is true, I could have been clearer I guess, the ultimate burden of responsibility must be shared by both organizers and players. We are not here to hand-hold, and this is a two-way street. The fact that someone like BRAT's manager made sure to provide me that information (the contract specifically says that you need to *guarantee* your ability to be in the US for the final) in order to alleviate any concern shows that: a) they understood the implications of playing in the league, and b) they cared enough about being a part of it to go the extra mile. NightEnD didn't do this, nor did his manager. I obviously take some responsibility for not explicitly stating it, but neither him or his manager has taken any responsibility in the matter, and instead responds with harsh words to me and the league. This is unfair for us. In our internal discussions, we wanted to avoid people from countries who had VISA problems entering the US because those players are "high risk" for us (I.E. what happens if they qualify but can't come to the finals?), this is also why we only considered ONE player (BRAT_OK) from RoX, and none of their other players... the RoX manager didn't even submit applications for the other ones because he knew they didn't have and couldn't guarantee VISAS. We did research on various countries, and knew that Romania doesn't have a VISA waiver program with the US, and that it would be difficult for a Romanian to get a VISA, which is why we didn't have NightEnD on our list, and which was why he was on our backup list. So again, people should be aware that in life, there are always two parties and both hold responsibility. So u picked the 50 players and said x is not invited becouse y is not invited becouse NightEnD is not invited becouse he has no visa . How could u know that i dont have visa if u didnt even bother t to ask me ? Pls cut the crap ?? You've never demonstrated that you had one by attending an event in the US, and when we spoke, you didn't have one... I'm not going to argue with you any more. I'm sorry that I didn't specifically tell you before that you needed a VISA. I hope you will qualify for Season 2 or win the Open Tournament. yes man is my foult for not assuming somthing u already assumed I am not saying the NASL handled the situation well, or that you didn't get screwed over... but it seems like you are taking absolutely no responsibility for yourself. Did you know that you would have to travel to the US for this tournament if you made it far? Yes. Does traveling to the US require a VISA? Yes. Would it have been a good idea for you or your management to ask about it (since you knew you would need it if you were to play well)? Yes. Once again, I am not saying they handled it well... but come on. You guys could have also taken the initiative to ask some questions about the league.
When xiris aproched me i asked him if i have to move to US to play NASL and he said no only top 16 have to come in US .. so why would i think about visa when he said top 16 and why didnt he told me that i need a visa ...u guys just missing one point its not about the visa... do u really think the koreans for example proved nasl they can take visa ? or the europeans ? :D like me they didnt even know about the visa thing only if they werent told do u think all 50 assumed that they need a visa and said lets ask nasl mb they need us to prove we can take a visa so we have to be sure we get it? ofc not .. if i was playing for mouz fnatic sk etc im sure i would not have this kind of problem atm
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