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Players such as Jinro, HuK, and Adelscott did not apply for this tour, so don't ask why they aren't on this list. DIMAGA, Kas, and LaLush turned applications in late so they will not appear either. Please take some time to learn who exactly applied. Please inform yourself about who applied and who didn't. |
On March 30 2011 07:49 xaneda wrote:
Pretty sad incontrol got picked instead of nightend, especially considering hes gonna go 0-9 in his group unless he gets lucky with one of his all ins
just 5 minutes of watching his stream would show you all the things wrong with this statement , and why you just shouldn't post that
also he may not have won any major tournaments , but so haven't some other players on the list
i mean , artosis is on there for crying out loud , did he win the last gsl ? mlg ? anything ?
it's not a prerequisite to be code s or have at least 10k winnings in the last year to be in nasl
incontrol is definately a very good player and belongs in there(along with many others that didn't get picked because there's 50 slots not 200)
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My concerns about the organization that operate the NASL continue to grow. As a fan I am, like a lot of people, frustrated by the lack of disclosure around the selection process and the selections themselves. As an isolated thing, this could be forgivable. However, this isn't the only issue that has surfaced. Other things that have tweaked me continue to add up.
When the showmatch preceding the announcement took a production nosedive they distanced themselves quickly using spin statements. One defensive statement was made that the website should be looked at as an example of their production quality and professionalism -- not the showmatch. And while pretty on the surface, the nasl.tv site has virtually no content, rich information, or dynamic components. They used a 3rd party website (very unsophisticated) to facilitate a farce of a vote on players while failing to define how the vote is even relevant. It was if they held a vote for the sake of having a vote.
I have worked with start-ups before and I have seen too many people get caught up in the fun aspect of what is happening and forget that the real success is in the hard work that is largely thankless. This is a point that very appropriately brings me to Incontrol. A self proclaimed leader in the e-sports movement, yet he discredits himself nearly every opportunity available. Part of being a leader is to show true self sacrafice and humility. He is not willing. Rather than watch and learn from existing leagues and productions, he sits by and makes critical remarks about the events and those involved. His casting is substandard, yet he must be the one to cast the nasl games. His play is substandard, yet he is a selected as a top 50 (applied) player? His act is all to familiar. All the glory, none of the sacrifice.
As a potential customer I am really turned off by the lack of parity between the statements they make and the actions they take. Rather than end it on a big gripe fest, I would like to offer a few suggestions modled to appear as constructive criticism:
- Incontrol, either play in the league or commentate it. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
- Use the website to facilitate dialog and interaction rather than just dictating views. The vote was a sliver of hope, but it seems to have not really factored into much. I would consider it a backfire. Good idea, no clear follow through or execution beyond the idea.
- Control your web presence better. Define (internally) what is an appropriate way for your staff to engage via the internet. This could include forum posting guidelines, disclosure boundaries, and some form of internal oversight. It am sure it sounds very constrictive and big brother, but past professional experience has shown me it is necessary. Create a singular voice that shows respect for the community you wish to drive revenue from.
- Don't be ashamed to charge appropriately for your product. Internet does not equal free, it's a trap that many content providers fall into. People who may attempt to 'pirate' your content are largely just under-served customers (credit to Gabe Newell from Valve for that sentiment).
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I love the sense of absolute entitlement people in this thread have been vomiting. As if Player X has some god-given right to play in the tournament because the laws of justice demand it. Because it's only fair.
I hate to think what will happen when they leave their parents' basement for the real world. Just enjoy the competition that is being provided at absolutely no expense to you.
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On March 30 2011 07:46 NightEnD wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:44 iNcontroL wrote:On March 30 2011 07:33 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:29 iNcontroL wrote:On March 30 2011 07:28 Phaint wrote:On March 30 2011 07:26 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:20 Defacer wrote:On March 30 2011 07:16 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:06 Xeris wrote:On March 30 2011 06:57 Bean54 wrote:
Xeris, you say you didnt accept NightEnD because he didn't already have a VISA. Did you even let the players know this was a requirement before or during the application process? Based on what it sounds like, you didn't. If not having a passport is a legitimate concern and is cause for disqualification you should have let NightEnD and all players know that BEFOREHAND so they could actually obtain one or fail to. Then you'd have a valid reason for disqualifying them. Sounds like you disqualified him for something that could easily have been remedied if you had let him know ahead of time. I didn't specifically tell the players, however, when I was approached by BRAT_OK's manager (from RoX), about the NASL, he actually provided me with BRAT's B1/2 VISA number that we verified. White-Ra has demonstrated his ability to get into the US before (I met him at MLG DC and Blizzcon, so I'm well aware he could get here). While it is true, I could have been clearer I guess, the ultimate burden of responsibility must be shared by both organizers and players. We are not here to hand-hold, and this is a two-way street. The fact that someone like BRAT's manager made sure to provide me that information (the contract specifically says that you need to *guarantee* your ability to be in the US for the final) in order to alleviate any concern shows that: a) they understood the implications of playing in the league, and b) they cared enough about being a part of it to go the extra mile. NightEnD didn't do this, nor did his manager. I obviously take some responsibility for not explicitly stating it, but neither him or his manager has taken any responsibility in the matter, and instead responds with harsh words to me and the league. This is unfair for us. In our internal discussions, we wanted to avoid people from countries who had VISA problems entering the US because those players are "high risk" for us (I.E. what happens if they qualify but can't come to the finals?), this is also why we only considered ONE player (BRAT_OK) from RoX, and none of their other players... the RoX manager didn't even submit applications for the other ones because he knew they didn't have and couldn't guarantee VISAS. We did research on various countries, and knew that Romania doesn't have a VISA waiver program with the US, and that it would be difficult for a Romanian to get a VISA, which is why we didn't have NightEnD on our list, and which was why he was on our backup list. So again, people should be aware that in life, there are always two parties and both hold responsibility. So u picked the 50 players and said x is not invited becouse y is not invited becouse NightEnD is not invited becouse he has no visa . How could u know that i dont have visa if u didnt even bother t to ask me ? Pls cut the crap Nightend: I don't know you or Xeris personally, but let it go. Next season, man; next season. Complaining now isn't going to get you any closer to what you want at this point. after how much i ''cryed' now mark my words i will not be invited in 2nd season or in 3 they will find an excuse like this if not a bigger one . Its run by Xeris and iNControl. You bet your bottom dollar you will never see an invite (but latter seasons aren't run by invites so don't worry champ  ) No. It isn't ran by me. I've said this countless times. Also why the hell would we have a grudge against him? He is a fantastic player... obviously he is upset with not being selected for this league.. anybody who cares about this game would be (100% understandable). Why do you feel the need to try and stir a pot that doesn't exist? You had to invited grubby somehow or he just got lucky i suppose ? becouse i didnt tought i have to prove u i can take a visa :D Not sure what your point is? Grubby travels on a regular basis. He also is one of the most famous players in all of RTS... Again I did not select the players. But I don't understand the "I didn't get picked so now I will go down the list and talk smack about each pick" mentality. There is a reason Minigun is a fucking champion. I truly am sorry you are not selected for this tourney. It sucks. No way to fluff it really. GL in the open / season 2 qualifier. You are a great player and I hope you make it! If i understand corectly ur picking sistem is that if i was invited grubby would not be or im wrong ? and i didnt smack any pick dont warry
How did we group the players?
The first thing we did is separate teammates – we put all teammates in different groups. The next thing we did was to look at fun and exciting rivals and try to pair them: I.E. IdrA vs Tyler, Zenio… and Grubby vs Moon. After this, we attempted to create an equal balance between races and regions. Two Koreans were placed in each group, and each group has a balance of 4-3-3 (races). We also used our selection process to help the grouping, separating those selected in the first round in different groups, etc.
Overall, we chose 3-4 players (Artosis, Grubby, MoMaN) who were designated as “fan favorites” and 3-4 players (ViBe, CrunCher, DarkforcE) who may be considered “underdogs.” The rest of the players were chosen based on their results and skill level.
I don't think it was a thing between you and Grubby really.
I think if it actually would have been between you two you'd have been the obvious choice for SC2 since Grubby didn't do anything yet and you've been playing since beta if I remember correctly...
Unfortunately other things went wrong between you and NASL this time 
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Good players are unfortunately going to miss out, seeing as there's more than 50 in the world. it's just a shame a lot of the Protoss selections actually have zero results (Artosis has no Protoss results, Grubby, Incontrol) and then you look at Minigun's results in the ROOT tournaments where he smashes like half the people invited into NASL
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On March 30 2011 07:50 Phaint wrote:
Haha iNControl the face of a league handling criticism with class.
I think I speak for alot of people when I say I'm happy you are on the list; can't wait to see you get manhandled by literally any other person in this league. Why are you posting? If you're busy trying harder than 99% of us shouldn't you be in game?
Does NASL have 50 trophies made because everyones a winner?
Anybody? Am I literally reading this guy correctly?
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On March 30 2011 07:45 Bean54 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:15 Minigun wrote:On March 30 2011 07:09 Bean54 wrote:On March 30 2011 07:00 Minigun wrote:
To those negatively critizing the nasl...
Does everyone realize how big e-sports can get in the NA if this booms?
It will be huge, it's getting huge as we speak.
It's a list of 50 people. Unfortunately that means not every top player can get it.
They need to make money off it as well. So not only do they invite top players, but people the community favorites.
If there are players that don't belong, then they will be weeded out pretty fast. They may have taken your favorite players spot, but there's always next season, and if they really deserve to be there, then they will probably be able to get through using the qualifier. I'm not sure how well I would have done if they through me in there now. I can't say I would be confident playing someone like ogsmc in a tournament. Although I would love the chance too (favorite protoss player <3)
Nasl is a business. I want to watch it grow. Am I little disappointed I didn't get in? Ofc..but will there be other chances to get in, other turnys (especially if the NASL takes off) ? Yes.
Starcraft 2 is so close to becoming huge in the NA. Instead of negatively criticizing one of the first businesses to actually try and expand E-sports in the west. Lets give it our unconditional support. Starcraft 2 can be huge, but only if the community supports it.
We all want it to succeed. However, if the business wants support from the community, it should do its best to represent and treat the community fairly as well. People have valid criticisms of how their applications were handled that should be remedied rather than glanced over just because the business is hosting the tournament of a game we all love. Just because we want a e-sports to be big doesn't mean we turn a blind eye and give the NASL or any other tournament carte blanche to pick favorites and disregard hard-working and deserving players. The NASL depend on our viewership and the viewers should be heard (support AND criticism). There will be problems and people felt like they were "wronged" in every tournament. It's just unavoidable for the most part. (I'm not saying anyone was or wasn't, staying out of that because it's not really my business.) I think you are missing how extremely hard it would be for someone to pick 50 top players, out of koreans, eu, and na. I would pull my hair out. It's IMPOSSIBLE to not leave people out. I can think of a few iffy players on that list, but im keeping my opinion out of it. It doesn't matter if there are a few iffy players. NASL are one of the first businesses to put themselves out there, and try and do something amazing for e-sports and starcraft 2. I'm not going to not support them because someone I think was deserving didn't get in. There's always the next tournament. A perfect list would look 100% different for everyone. Did people who deserved to get in not get in? Of course, that would have happened no matter who made the list. whether it was me, you, or someone who was completely unbiased. Well see, it is your business because YOU were overlooked for as you call them, "iffy players." And that characterization, makes your opinion rather evident that you believe there are unqualified players or people that don't deserve to be there. AND YES IT DOES MATTER because legitimately good players LIKE YOURSELF are excluded and that matters to the viewers. I understand your desire to get in future tournaments and thus the incentive to avoid confrontation with the NASL but you should let others speak and stop defending the NASL's choices when you should have been on that list.
His point is that there is no such thing as a perfect list of 50 players. There are people that deserve to be there that aren't, because there are more than 50 players who deserve to be in the league but we can only choose 50. This logically means that some people will get left out. Fortunately, this isn't a 1 time event, and we're not inviting people every season. After this season, the entire process is open to the most deserving players, people who win qualifying tournaments.
So, maybe you'll be missing out on Minigun for Season 1, but I have little doubt that in Season 2 or 3, he'll be in the running to qualify, and if he's a top player, he'll probably keep his seat. If there are players who were invited that don't "deserve" to be in the league, then they will drop out of Season 1 and be replaced by better players.
We can't please everyone, but we did the best we could with an invite system.
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Thats pretty silly to even post something like this based on your opinion when a player like dde has actually won more tournaments than anyone lol. You can base things upon results in CW, Showmathces, and Tournaments, but arbitrarily saying I personally haven't heard of this guy, he shouldn't be in, is different.
I guess my point, and the poitn I'm trying to say the NASL dropped the ball on is this
If you deny a player based upon results, and popularity, thats fine. Denying someone on the assumption they can't get a visa and not even asking those 3-4 players you'd consider, if they can try to get one, well, that goes without saying that it is foolish.
Then accepting some players based on popularity is ok, especially if those are players like Artosis and Grubby who have been on the scene for 10 years and shown the drive and dedication to practice and gameplanning. but THEN you start inviting certian players with ZERO tournament results in the past 5 months, have shown to not even ladder particularly well, don't perform with any special ability in clan wars or showmatches, and don't make it past the first few rounds without getting "upset" in tournaments is odd.
It is my opinion that a professional player SHOULD enter a tournament once in a while just to show that they have some sort of consistency but there are many pro players that seem to avoid it altogether, only entering tournaments when they are invited (and subsequently losing within the first two rounds). That to me, shows that they are a consistent LOSER and shouldn't have any sort of precedence over players who enter 3 small cups a week but are able to win one a week, that is an incredible feat in itself. The TSL had a ranking system based on consistency in placing in all the TLOpens and why is it that some of these players got ZERO rank points. If they are pro players and as good as we are to think they are, then why were they not able to get in top 32 ONCE, meanwhile other players were able to get top 16 three, four, FIVE times or more.
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On March 30 2011 07:47 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:43 xaneda wrote:On March 30 2011 07:39 iNcontroL wrote:On March 30 2011 07:32 Phaint wrote:On March 30 2011 07:29 iNcontroL wrote:On March 30 2011 07:28 Phaint wrote:On March 30 2011 07:26 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:20 Defacer wrote:On March 30 2011 07:16 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:06 Xeris wrote:
[quote]
I didn't specifically tell the players, however, when I was approached by BRAT_OK's manager (from RoX), about the NASL, he actually provided me with BRAT's B1/2 VISA number that we verified. White-Ra has demonstrated his ability to get into the US before (I met him at MLG DC and Blizzcon, so I'm well aware he could get here). While it is true, I could have been clearer I guess, the ultimate burden of responsibility must be shared by both organizers and players. We are not here to hand-hold, and this is a two-way street.
The fact that someone like BRAT's manager made sure to provide me that information (the contract specifically says that you need to *guarantee* your ability to be in the US for the final) in order to alleviate any concern shows that: a) they understood the implications of playing in the league, and b) they cared enough about being a part of it to go the extra mile. NightEnD didn't do this, nor did his manager.
I obviously take some responsibility for not explicitly stating it, but neither him or his manager has taken any responsibility in the matter, and instead responds with harsh words to me and the league. This is unfair for us. In our internal discussions, we wanted to avoid people from countries who had VISA problems entering the US because those players are "high risk" for us (I.E. what happens if they qualify but can't come to the finals?), this is also why we only considered ONE player (BRAT_OK) from RoX, and none of their other players... the RoX manager didn't even submit applications for the other ones because he knew they didn't have and couldn't guarantee VISAS.
We did research on various countries, and knew that Romania doesn't have a VISA waiver program with the US, and that it would be difficult for a Romanian to get a VISA, which is why we didn't have NightEnD on our list, and which was why he was on our backup list.
So again, people should be aware that in life, there are always two parties and both hold responsibility. So u picked the 50 players and said x is not invited becouse y is not invited becouse NightEnD is not invited becouse he has no visa . How could u know that i dont have visa if u didnt even bother t to ask me ? Pls cut the crap Nightend: I don't know you or Xeris personally, but let it go. Next season, man; next season. Complaining now isn't going to get you any closer to what you want at this point. after how much i ''cryed' now mark my words i will not be invited in 2nd season or in 3 they will find an excuse like this if not a bigger one . Its run by Xeris and iNControl. You bet your bottom dollar you will never see an invite (but latter seasons aren't run by invites so don't worry champ ) No. It isn't ran by me. I've said this countless times. Also why the hell would we have a grudge against him? He is a fantastic player... obviously he is upset with not being selected for this league.. anybody who cares about this game would be (100% understandable). Why do you feel the need to try and stir a pot that doesn't exist? How'd ya get that invite then? Your achievements don't even compare to 49th least achievement earning person on the list. SooOOOOooOOO you flame randomly. I tell you that you are wrong and basing opinions on things that are wrong... and you come back with some kind of an attack on me? Did you catch the part where the NASL people said they didn't recruit based on money earnings? There were other factors... race played, region, fame and skill all played a part. I am sorry you are so against me. I will work really hard to make you look dumb for holding some sort of grudge against me. Pardon me sir while I try and play this game at the highest level! I love it when people flame me for not winning a tourney or something... you think I play this game NOT to win? I am trying harder than 99% of each person who flames me to play this game as best I can. For some, they recognize that I can and do do well (top 20 MLG in all 3 attended / various accomplishments in BW - the harder game). For others, they try and get at me with that simple fact. It's odd... but it's fine. I am 100% completely fueled by the haters/doubters. To those that support me - THANK YOU. I too am motivated to do you guys proud <3 I am sorry I give so much attention to the haters Yeah okay incontrol, your accomplishments don't mean much in BW considering no one even cared about the foreign scene, apart from like 6-8 players everyone was awful, not to mention you win all your games with 2 base lurker all ins and 3 hatch speedling and 5pools  Anyway at least I can take satisfaction in the fact that "trying your hardest" is never gonna be enough in SC2. Stick to coaching. In one post he not only slanders me (who cares) but he actually slanders EVERY PLAYER WHO PLAYED BW... lol Alright dude... this happens like 2-3 times a day but I try and get up on my soap box and preach reason but then I hear something like this and I am like "Ah! When Day9/Wheat/Artosis/Tasteless tell me to 100% not post/read TL any more because it will always devolve into this I NEED to listen." I am pigheaded and stubborn but I swear guys... how the FUCK do you call every bw player bad from 2007 and onward with a straight face?
 put your glasses on and ignore the haters, because you have a tournament (MLG Dallas) to win Sir. GO PRACTICE!
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On March 30 2011 07:51 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:50 Phaint wrote:
Haha iNControl the face of a league handling criticism with class.
I think I speak for alot of people when I say I'm happy you are on the list; can't wait to see you get manhandled by literally any other person in this league. Why are you posting? If you're busy trying harder than 99% of us shouldn't you be in game?
Does NASL have 50 trophies made because everyones a winner? Anybody? Am I literally reading this guy correctly?
Anyone else in the NASL, apparently you aren't reading me correctly you glorified seat filler, you.
User was warned for this post
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Personal preferences on players aside, I think this little debacle is more evidence towards what many people (including some translated korean netizen comments) have been saying: this league is being managed in a rather amateur fashion.
It is absolutely moronic to deny applications due to criteria that was never made known to the applicants and never properly investigated. If you don't tell players they need to have a hard copy of their visa available when they apply, it is asinine to expect them to know they need one. I would imagine brat_ok made it clear he had his visa issues worked out because he has had many visa issues in the past few months. You can't expect players like night end to guess what your criteria is, no matter how intuitive you feel it should be. It sounds like you just came up with the visa thing as a reason after the fact because you needed justification
It is clear that you guys are not experts in this field, which is understandable, as it is a new scene for north america.. However, your reluctance to show an open mind towards criticism these past weeks is extremely troublesome. If you make a poor application process and people get screwed over, it is not proper to show complete solidarity in your decision making and come up with seemingly on the spot excuses for why certain players were or weren't invited.
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What's with all the iNcontroL hate? guarentee he tears it up in his group!
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On March 30 2011 07:47 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:43 xaneda wrote:On March 30 2011 07:39 iNcontroL wrote:On March 30 2011 07:32 Phaint wrote:On March 30 2011 07:29 iNcontroL wrote:On March 30 2011 07:28 Phaint wrote:On March 30 2011 07:26 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:20 Defacer wrote:On March 30 2011 07:16 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:06 Xeris wrote:
[quote]
I didn't specifically tell the players, however, when I was approached by BRAT_OK's manager (from RoX), about the NASL, he actually provided me with BRAT's B1/2 VISA number that we verified. White-Ra has demonstrated his ability to get into the US before (I met him at MLG DC and Blizzcon, so I'm well aware he could get here). While it is true, I could have been clearer I guess, the ultimate burden of responsibility must be shared by both organizers and players. We are not here to hand-hold, and this is a two-way street.
The fact that someone like BRAT's manager made sure to provide me that information (the contract specifically says that you need to *guarantee* your ability to be in the US for the final) in order to alleviate any concern shows that: a) they understood the implications of playing in the league, and b) they cared enough about being a part of it to go the extra mile. NightEnD didn't do this, nor did his manager.
I obviously take some responsibility for not explicitly stating it, but neither him or his manager has taken any responsibility in the matter, and instead responds with harsh words to me and the league. This is unfair for us. In our internal discussions, we wanted to avoid people from countries who had VISA problems entering the US because those players are "high risk" for us (I.E. what happens if they qualify but can't come to the finals?), this is also why we only considered ONE player (BRAT_OK) from RoX, and none of their other players... the RoX manager didn't even submit applications for the other ones because he knew they didn't have and couldn't guarantee VISAS.
We did research on various countries, and knew that Romania doesn't have a VISA waiver program with the US, and that it would be difficult for a Romanian to get a VISA, which is why we didn't have NightEnD on our list, and which was why he was on our backup list.
So again, people should be aware that in life, there are always two parties and both hold responsibility. So u picked the 50 players and said x is not invited becouse y is not invited becouse NightEnD is not invited becouse he has no visa . How could u know that i dont have visa if u didnt even bother t to ask me ? Pls cut the crap Nightend: I don't know you or Xeris personally, but let it go. Next season, man; next season. Complaining now isn't going to get you any closer to what you want at this point. after how much i ''cryed' now mark my words i will not be invited in 2nd season or in 3 they will find an excuse like this if not a bigger one . Its run by Xeris and iNControl. You bet your bottom dollar you will never see an invite (but latter seasons aren't run by invites so don't worry champ ) No. It isn't ran by me. I've said this countless times. Also why the hell would we have a grudge against him? He is a fantastic player... obviously he is upset with not being selected for this league.. anybody who cares about this game would be (100% understandable). Why do you feel the need to try and stir a pot that doesn't exist? How'd ya get that invite then? Your achievements don't even compare to 49th least achievement earning person on the list. SooOOOOooOOO you flame randomly. I tell you that you are wrong and basing opinions on things that are wrong... and you come back with some kind of an attack on me? Did you catch the part where the NASL people said they didn't recruit based on money earnings? There were other factors... race played, region, fame and skill all played a part. I am sorry you are so against me. I will work really hard to make you look dumb for holding some sort of grudge against me. Pardon me sir while I try and play this game at the highest level! I love it when people flame me for not winning a tourney or something... you think I play this game NOT to win? I am trying harder than 99% of each person who flames me to play this game as best I can. For some, they recognize that I can and do do well (top 20 MLG in all 3 attended / various accomplishments in BW - the harder game). For others, they try and get at me with that simple fact. It's odd... but it's fine. I am 100% completely fueled by the haters/doubters. To those that support me - THANK YOU. I too am motivated to do you guys proud <3 I am sorry I give so much attention to the haters Yeah okay incontrol, your accomplishments don't mean much in BW considering no one even cared about the foreign scene, apart from like 6-8 players everyone was awful, not to mention you win all your games with 2 base lurker all ins and 3 hatch speedling and 5pools Anyway at least I can take satisfaction in the fact that "trying your hardest" is never gonna be enough in SC2. Stick to coaching. In one post he not only slanders me (who cares) but he actually slanders EVERY PLAYER WHO PLAYED BW... lol Alright dude... this happens like 2-3 times a day but I try and get up on my soap box and preach reason but then I hear something like this and I am like "Ah! When Day9/Wheat/Artosis/Tasteless tell me to 100% not post/read TL any more because it will always devolve into this I NEED to listen." I am pigheaded and stubborn but I swear guys... how the FUCK do you call every bw player bad from 2007 and onward with a straight face?
listen champ, its obviously relative. No one could make a living off progaming outside of Korea (and hardly any in Korea apart from top A team players) and there was only one big tournament per year (WCG) so hardly anyone played throughout the year. That doesn't sound very competitive now does it? Of course you could hardly macro off 3 base so just used abusive/all in builds as a crutch for your own lack of mechanics and skill so you probably aren't very knowledgable anyway. Thanks for trying though
User was banned for this post.
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Great job NASL!!!!. This is going to be so sick. I need more details on viewing this league!!
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It was kind of obvious when this whole thing started that Incontrol was going to get a spot that someone else deserved. You gotta be silly to think that the guy who helps run the tournament wouldn't get a invite, no matter how good he is.
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On March 30 2011 07:50 Phaint wrote:
Haha iNControl the face of a league handling criticism with class.
I think I speak for alot of people when I say I'm happy you are on the list; can't wait to see you get manhandled by literally any other person in this league. Why are you posting? If you're busy trying harder than 99% of us shouldn't you be in game?
Does NASL have 50 trophies made because everyones a winner?
You're just shit talking... are you proud of yourself?
Feel free to enjoy watching someone lose... it makes esports fun, but why even bring this shit here? Seriously, how can you be proud of yourself?
Just show a bit of respect to another human being rather than flaming him. If he really isn't supposed to be in the league skill wise, then he will drop out... on the other hand if he is good enough, he will stay in the league and all your pointless shit talking will have been for nothing, and you will look like an ass (well you already do... so I guess you will look like MORE of an ass).
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On March 30 2011 07:51 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:50 Phaint wrote:
Haha iNControl the face of a league handling criticism with class.
I think I speak for alot of people when I say I'm happy you are on the list; can't wait to see you get manhandled by literally any other person in this league. Why are you posting? If you're busy trying harder than 99% of us shouldn't you be in game?
Does NASL have 50 trophies made because everyones a winner? Anybody? Am I literally reading this guy correctly?
He's trolling, you probably are reading correctly.
Unfortunately your banhammer is gone. :<
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On March 30 2011 07:44 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:16 NightEnD wrote:On March 30 2011 07:06 Xeris wrote:On March 30 2011 06:57 Bean54 wrote:
Xeris, you say you didnt accept NightEnD because he didn't already have a VISA. Did you even let the players know this was a requirement before or during the application process? Based on what it sounds like, you didn't. If not having a passport is a legitimate concern and is cause for disqualification you should have let NightEnD and all players know that BEFOREHAND so they could actually obtain one or fail to. Then you'd have a valid reason for disqualifying them. Sounds like you disqualified him for something that could easily have been remedied if you had let him know ahead of time. I didn't specifically tell the players, however, when I was approached by BRAT_OK's manager (from RoX), about the NASL, he actually provided me with BRAT's B1/2 VISA number that we verified. White-Ra has demonstrated his ability to get into the US before (I met him at MLG DC and Blizzcon, so I'm well aware he could get here). While it is true, I could have been clearer I guess, the ultimate burden of responsibility must be shared by both organizers and players. We are not here to hand-hold, and this is a two-way street. The fact that someone like BRAT's manager made sure to provide me that information (the contract specifically says that you need to *guarantee* your ability to be in the US for the final) in order to alleviate any concern shows that: a) they understood the implications of playing in the league, and b) they cared enough about being a part of it to go the extra mile. NightEnD didn't do this, nor did his manager. I obviously take some responsibility for not explicitly stating it, but neither him or his manager has taken any responsibility in the matter, and instead responds with harsh words to me and the league. This is unfair for us. In our internal discussions, we wanted to avoid people from countries who had VISA problems entering the US because those players are "high risk" for us (I.E. what happens if they qualify but can't come to the finals?), this is also why we only considered ONE player (BRAT_OK) from RoX, and none of their other players... the RoX manager didn't even submit applications for the other ones because he knew they didn't have and couldn't guarantee VISAS. We did research on various countries, and knew that Romania doesn't have a VISA waiver program with the US, and that it would be difficult for a Romanian to get a VISA, which is why we didn't have NightEnD on our list, and which was why he was on our backup list. So again, people should be aware that in life, there are always two parties and both hold responsibility. So u picked the 50 players and said x is not invited becouse y is not invited becouse NightEnD is not invited becouse he has no visa . How could u know that i dont have visa if u didnt even bother t to ask me ? Pls cut the crap ?? You've never demonstrated that you had one by attending an event in the US, and when we spoke, you didn't have one... I'm not going to argue with you any more. I'm sorry that I didn't specifically tell you before that you needed a VISA. I hope you will qualify for Season 2 or win the Open Tournament.
yes man is my foult for not assuming somthing u already assumed
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On March 30 2011 07:45 Bean54 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2011 07:15 Minigun wrote:On March 30 2011 07:09 Bean54 wrote:On March 30 2011 07:00 Minigun wrote:
To those negatively critizing the nasl...
Does everyone realize how big e-sports can get in the NA if this booms?
It will be huge, it's getting huge as we speak.
It's a list of 50 people. Unfortunately that means not every top player can get it.
They need to make money off it as well. So not only do they invite top players, but people the community favorites.
If there are players that don't belong, then they will be weeded out pretty fast. They may have taken your favorite players spot, but there's always next season, and if they really deserve to be there, then they will probably be able to get through using the qualifier. I'm not sure how well I would have done if they through me in there now. I can't say I would be confident playing someone like ogsmc in a tournament. Although I would love the chance too (favorite protoss player <3)
Nasl is a business. I want to watch it grow. Am I little disappointed I didn't get in? Ofc..but will there be other chances to get in, other turnys (especially if the NASL takes off) ? Yes.
Starcraft 2 is so close to becoming huge in the NA. Instead of negatively criticizing one of the first businesses to actually try and expand E-sports in the west. Lets give it our unconditional support. Starcraft 2 can be huge, but only if the community supports it.
We all want it to succeed. However, if the business wants support from the community, it should do its best to represent and treat the community fairly as well. People have valid criticisms of how their applications were handled that should be remedied rather than glanced over just because the business is hosting the tournament of a game we all love. Just because we want a e-sports to be big doesn't mean we turn a blind eye and give the NASL or any other tournament carte blanche to pick favorites and disregard hard-working and deserving players. The NASL depend on our viewership and the viewers should be heard (support AND criticism). There will be problems and people felt like they were "wronged" in every tournament. It's just unavoidable for the most part. (I'm not saying anyone was or wasn't, staying out of that because it's not really my business.) I think you are missing how extremely hard it would be for someone to pick 50 top players, out of koreans, eu, and na. I would pull my hair out. It's IMPOSSIBLE to not leave people out. I can think of a few iffy players on that list, but im keeping my opinion out of it. It doesn't matter if there are a few iffy players. NASL are one of the first businesses to put themselves out there, and try and do something amazing for e-sports and starcraft 2. I'm not going to not support them because someone I think was deserving didn't get in. There's always the next tournament. A perfect list would look 100% different for everyone. Did people who deserved to get in not get in? Of course, that would have happened no matter who made the list. whether it was me, you, or someone who was completely unbiased. Well see, it is your business because YOU were overlooked for as you call them, "iffy players." And that characterization, makes your opinion rather evident that you believe there are unqualified players or people that don't deserve to be there. AND YES IT DOES MATTER because legitimately good players LIKE YOURSELF are excluded and that matters to the viewers. I understand your desire to get in future tournaments and thus the incentive to avoid confrontation with the NASL but you should let others speak and stop defending the NASL's choices when you should have been on that list.
We'll lets look at it this way from their viewpoint. I will use myself so I don't insult anyone.
-qualifications of rootminigun
-has no lan experience
-did not play sc1
-is a ladder whore ( -_- )
-has played in a small amount of online turnys
I usually place well in every turny, but that should motivate me to play more turnys, but for some reason I don't.
I can only blame myself for not being invited
Also, for the small amount of people hating on incontrol, please stop, he's a good player, and he's only trying to help e-sports. Please help him help us by supporting him.
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guys flaming kinda pointless, it is what it is, the league will offer some good games, im the first to agree that the invites could have been a bit better rounded and representative (see: demuslim, nightend), but complaining now wont change anything, all we can do is hope for season 2 that these players will earn their places to entertain their fans
again, flaming wont change anything! especially personal flaming, i know it sucks if you dont have somoene to support, but you can still enjoy the games atleast
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EPT
