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I'll just quote something of the NASL.tv website.
We knew we had to go big or go home. We needed an epic prize pool. We needed the best players. Most importantly, we needed the passion and excitement that comes from competition at the highest level; from watching two masters battle it out knowing that only one will win.
It does not say "The players who are best in speaking English" Or "Players with the best English grammar"
It simply says the best players.
I cant believe the racism and defensive attitudes in this thread about having Koreans participate in this event. Kinda makes me think certain people are afraid that they lose their spot to a Korean who's without a doubt better.
Though in the end it comes down to who NASL picks for the 50 spots, but there's no doubt in my mind this tournament will blown some minds!
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I truely believe that Artosis would be on the list of the top 40-50 foreigners after enough practice (and he has enough time before NASL starts), the guy is the mother fucking Encyclopedia Brittania/Wikipedia/Encarta of Starcraft.
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Lol all this ridiculous bashing of the Korean players reminds me of:
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On March 16 2011 01:18 Bobster wrote:
Again, I feel the need to reiterate that "people whining about the Koreans" have been exactly 2 people who haven't posted in the thread for a couple pages now.
It's fine to post your opinion on the matter (even if posts are rapidly starting to repeat themselves), but getting all huffed and puffed about the matter now after roughly ~300 people have already shouted them down is overkill and prevents the discussion from going forward. :lol
Lol, in other news I love the fact that they made the Koreans speak English. I wonder if torch helped them out.
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Luckily based on this thread the antikoreans are mainly the snotty kids of the 'scene', hopefully the actual deciders are more intelligent.
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People fail to realize that the GSL has a HUGE barrier to entry for us foreigners. If Joe Starcraft player wants to play in the GSL he needs to make a long-term commitment and turn his entire life upside down to do so. I don't see anyone complaining or accusing GOM of racism for the way they run their tournament (they offer no online qualification/advancement). I feel that it would be a disservice to NAers to have Korean players advancing in the NASL strictly through online play and then only having to commit to a short-term trip to NA to compete and collect the huge prize.
I don't know about you, but watching some code A guys destroy everyone at IEM wasn't fun to spectate. I want to see players that have an even footing battle it out. In my opinion watching Koreans (12hrs+ a day practicing - its their entire life) competing against foreigners not living in Korea (4-6hrs+ a day practicing - its not their entire life) just isn't compelling competition. Like I've said before on this topic - when our culture supports starcraft players the way Korea's culture does - I'll be all for having a true global starcraft tournament. Unfortunately, our cultures are no where near the same in that regard.
I'm new to the community so maybe I don't understand the rabid fanaticism for Korean players. Why do people in NA/Europe respect/root for Korean players almost as much, if not more, than their own countrymen? I suppose people just want to the see the best of the best. I'm still of the opinion that Korean players are better at SC2 because they practice 10x harder than foreigners.
Their culture allows such dedication, ours does not.
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1) Just because GSL has a big entry barrier doesn't mean that we (non-Koreans) should also make big barriers for Koreans who want to compete in our leagues. This argument is somewhat childish: He doesn't let me play with his toy so I don't allow him to play with mine.
2) Why should we not support Korean players? I for once supported the Koreans players during IEM. they work hard and seem to be nice guys.
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GOD it is kind of obvious 2nd tier american players like Pokebunny are threatened by the Koreans cause obviously he thinks he deserves a spot, but it will be sad to see anyone from 2nd tier NA get a spot into NASL. sorry, but if NASL wants to get money and sponsors and grow, all these "no namers" shouldnt be invited because the truth is no one would watch them. I mean lets go this way "Pokebunny vs NrGNeverExpo" or "ST bomber versus July" Who the hell would choose game 1, let it be in the NASL or GSL.
Sorry, but ya of course if SO MANY koreans apply(which now only a few have), limit them to like 15-20 seats and then have the other 30 as Foreigners. Kids like Pokebunny and the NrG folks are just bashing because of human nature. They know they have barely any chance of getting into the NASL with only foreigners let alone Koreans?? Comeon.
This isnt a BM post since i think Pokebunny' and the other guy's posts have way more racism and American ignorance than mine. I mean now you can tell why everyone hates "americans." really, grow a pair, go practice more. WIN SOMETHING and then maybe complain about letting Koreans in but it should be the Viewers who choose who we want in the league, not lower tier american or european players.
and so far its been pretty close to unanimous that Koreans should be allowed in a limited basis.
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On March 16 2011 01:35 RevRich wrote:
I don't know about you, but watching some code A guys destroy everyone at IEM wasn't fun to spectate. I want to see players that have an even footing battle it out. In my opinion watching Koreans (12hrs+ a day practicing - its their entire life) competing against foreigners not living in Korea (4-6hrs+ a day practicing - its not their entire life) just isn't compelling competition. Like I've said before on this topic - when our culture supports starcraft players the way Korea's culture does - I'll be all for having a true global starcraft tournament. Unfortunately, our cultures are no where near the same in that regard.
I'm new to the community so maybe I don't understand the rabid fanaticism for Korean players. Why do people in NA/Europe respect/root for Korean players almost as much, if not more, than their own countrymen? I suppose people just want to the see the best of the best. I'm still of the opinion that Korean players are better at SC2 because they practice 10x harder than foreigners.
Their culture allows such dedication, ours does not.
I've never understood random patriotism in areas where they make no sense, I just like seeing top level play. Why or how the best of the best got that way is pretty irrelevant to me. I'd much rather see top level players going at it than random mid/low level foreigners playing.
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On March 16 2011 00:56 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 00:41 infinity2k9 wrote:
Why do people not want the best games possible? Asian or white it's the quality of the game that matters. People were excited about the 2 scenes merging to one, one of the big positives of SC2 eSports, now people are crying that they shouldn't even be allowed in? They are threatened because Koreans will take low level NA players spots that they feel they are entitled to. Koreans are unquestionably better than any NrG member or Pokebunny or anyone you could think of to round out a top 50 list. It's just disappointing to see competitors turning on others for being better than them. On the one hand with some sort of qualifier, or picking more players and quickly whittling down to the top 50, they have a fighting chance. Given the nature of the NASL setup I can't really blame them for their response, because if the NASL expects to be considered a legitimate competition of course it's going to take Koreans who apply over the likes of low level NA players.
Well I think it's not too bad for NASL to get some of the lesser known up and coming Americans a shot in it. It is meant to grow American SC first and foremost. So yes having the best people possible is good but I think there is a fine line between getting the best possible and excluding your own scene.
Obviously I'm not saying Koreans or Europeans or Africans shouldn't be allowed in. He best players should be in but maybe they should have some form of only American qualifier for 2 spots each season or something. Unless the fact that it does have the best player is enough to grow the scene
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On March 16 2011 01:24 Mithriel wrote:
It does not say "The players who are best in speaking English" Or "Players with the best English grammar"
It simply says the best players.
I cant believe the racism and defensive attitudes in this thread about having Koreans participate in this event. Kinda makes me think certain people are afraid that they lose their spot to a Korean who's without a doubt better.
If they really chose just the best players, we would have at least 45 Koreans in it. It would basically be the same players like in GSL. Where is the market for a second GSL, when there is already one?
It makes no sense.
Also remember that the targeted market for this is much, much bigger than people that are on TL or that watch GSL. Its about an audience that has never heard of players like July let alone Bomber and so on.
Also the "Thats racist!" argument is just dumb. Noone cares about race, there are plenty of Americans which are Asian among the applicants for example. And I prefer to watch German Bundesliga over English Premier League, despite the latter having the better players. Does that make me racist now? No, I just care more for the local clubs, because I know about a lot of the stuff that happens beside the football field. And its the same for some sc fans, they want to see the local players that they know and that they cheer for. Of course its not like that for everyone, some want to see more Europeans, some more Korean players.
In the end NASL will have to find some middle ground here that represents the wishes of the majority of its potential market.
I think it will come down to something like 20 NA / 20 EU / 10 KOR.
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On March 15 2011 23:48 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 21:48 Nimic wrote:
I'm loving the argument that the Koreans shouldn't be let in because they haven't been involved in the foreigner scene much. For one thing, they sort of have, lately. Dreamhack, IEM, FXOpen(i)s, etc. It's got to start somewhere. And therein lies the second point. There's a logical disconnect somewhere in denying someone the chance to be involved in the foreigner scene because they haven't been a part of the foreigner scene.
You can laugh all you will at their minute-or-less videos (the "jibberish" comment from the Nrg fellow I have never heard of was particularly classy), but this shows that they want to be part of our scene. Is it because of money? Who cares if it is? For one thing it probably isn't, not completely. I'm sure they are like any other people, and would love the chance to travel to different places and compete, perhaps gaining a ton of fans you didn't even know where there in the process. And it's not like Foreigner pro-gamers don't care about money.
I think that if the NASL organizers restricted Korean entries into the league too much, it would betray their stated goal. Namely to have the worlds best players competing. Obviously there should be some sort of restriction, so that all of the players aren't Korean (though I have my doubts that that many Koreans would even try to get in), but we need a fair few Koreans for this to be legitimate.
Sure, a Korean could end up winning the first few seasons. Or Idra could. Or Ret. Or WhiteRA. Either way, can you imagine the publicity the NASL would get in the SC2 community, or even the gaming community in general, the first time a foreigner beat a fairly known Korean? It would make it all worth it. ?? You saw July's video, they read these off a piece of paper probably prepared by a manager. Their videos are more of a turn-off to me than anything, as it shows they can't even communicate properly during the event. They don't want to be a part of the scene, they just want to win the cash with as little effort given as possible. Bashing NrG's manager who has grown the team for six years for a valid comment is also particularly classy.
Every time you post you make me want to rip my hair out...
What do you even mean by "communicate properly during the event?"
Also, nobody was even bashing that NrG guy, they were attacking his stupid comment about Korean 'jibberish.'
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I don't understand people thats says GOMtv don't support foreigners. Take a look at the up coming GOM 2011 GSL World Championship
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=199458.
"We contacted at least 8 players per region but these were the ones that have replied to us that they have accpeted to play. Jinro(Code S top8), Morrow(IEM), Moonglade(IEM) are already given spot. 2 from EU, 2 from America, 1from Asia will be selected through regional qualifier. All the invitees will be paid for their plane tickets."
Not only are they offering seedings for the top players, but also online regional qualifier to fill the other spots. But that is not all, GOM will also PAY for your plane ticket to Korea. So yea, they don't support foreigner.
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On March 16 2011 01:45 InteGrated wrote:
GOD it is kind of obvious 2nd tier american players like Pokebunny are threatened by the Koreans cause obviously he thinks he deserves a spot, but it will be sad to see anyone from 2nd tier NA get a spot into NASL. sorry, but if NASL wants to get money and sponsors and grow, all these "no namers" shouldnt be invited because the truth is no one would watch them. I mean lets go this way "Pokebunny vs NrGNeverExpo" or "ST bomber versus July" Who the hell would choose game 1, let it be in the NASL or GSL.
I think this post doesnt make a lot of sense, simply because it is highly unlikely that Pokebunny or NeverExpo would be in this league even if there were no Koreans at all.
The Koreans are more a "problem" for peole like Sjow, who would actually have a shot at winning this. And he explicitly said that he wants to play against Korenas because of the competition.
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On March 15 2011 23:48 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 21:48 Nimic wrote:
I'm loving the argument that the Koreans shouldn't be let in because they haven't been involved in the foreigner scene much. For one thing, they sort of have, lately. Dreamhack, IEM, FXOpen(i)s, etc. It's got to start somewhere. And therein lies the second point. There's a logical disconnect somewhere in denying someone the chance to be involved in the foreigner scene because they haven't been a part of the foreigner scene.
You can laugh all you will at their minute-or-less videos (the "jibberish" comment from the Nrg fellow I have never heard of was particularly classy), but this shows that they want to be part of our scene. Is it because of money? Who cares if it is? For one thing it probably isn't, not completely. I'm sure they are like any other people, and would love the chance to travel to different places and compete, perhaps gaining a ton of fans you didn't even know where there in the process. And it's not like Foreigner pro-gamers don't care about money.
I think that if the NASL organizers restricted Korean entries into the league too much, it would betray their stated goal. Namely to have the worlds best players competing. Obviously there should be some sort of restriction, so that all of the players aren't Korean (though I have my doubts that that many Koreans would even try to get in), but we need a fair few Koreans for this to be legitimate.
Sure, a Korean could end up winning the first few seasons. Or Idra could. Or Ret. Or WhiteRA. Either way, can you imagine the publicity the NASL would get in the SC2 community, or even the gaming community in general, the first time a foreigner beat a fairly known Korean? It would make it all worth it. ?? You saw July's video, they read these off a piece of paper probably prepared by a manager. Their videos are more of a turn-off to me than anything, as it shows they can't even communicate properly during the event. They don't want to be a part of the scene, they just want to win the cash with as little effort given as possible. Bashing NrG's manager who has grown the team for six years for a valid comment is also particularly classy.
First off... I dare you... please find a line in the quote you quoted that "bashed" the NrG manager. Please... go ahead. That's right you can't. Oh what's that? The guy said he never heard of him? How rude! He is clearly bashing him... He should have lied and said he has heard of him. NeverExpo's response to all the Korean videos was a lot more rude.
I have to agree with some of the comments I saw from yesterday... it just seems like people are feeling threatened and are spouting as many arguments as possible and hoping they stick.
I find it funny how the argument is often "they just want to win the cash" like they are some evil greedy people. Many of them have expressed their interest in the foreign community... and guess what NA and EU players also want the cash! That is why there are big prize pools! Do you think liquid and all the other players who went to Korea EVER said "I am just so interested in the Korean fans that I would rather move their to play" and then attempted to speak Korean upon arrival? No. Only a few players have tried learning a bit of Korean since living there for awhile... and even players like IdrA who lived their for a very long time didn't learn much of it.
I don't know why people like you then turn around after the foreigners lack of effort and essentially says the Koreans are so incredibly greedy and they only care about the money. Of course that is an interest of theirs for starcraft... it is for every pro player... but I don't know why you are trying to play off their approach of reaching out to the foreign community as just some way to grab more money. I can't imagine it is easy for them and they are trying a lot harder than foreigners have with the Korean scene.
I am not even debating how many Koreans there should be... I personally wouldn't want the tournament to be filled with them, and NASL will decide how many to include... but all of that aside, your arguments are terrible and seem to be based out of feeling threatened by the Koreans who may be taking your spot in the tournament.
And all things considered... I guess WhiteRa shouldn't be allowed to play either based off your comments and NeverExpo's. His English isn't very good and he hasn't been expressing a lot of interest in our community other than the big tournaments. Omg I guess he is also a evil greedy player. Come on... get over yourselves.
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lol MurDeR "I've had a girlfriend for three years. Still with her."
hahahahahahaha. How is that relevant? To explain your complete lack of success? ;P
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I dont see what the big deal about the koreans is, the best players should win the prizes, of course they are competing for money, i doubt liquid and other foreigners went to korea to 'help the gsl grow' they went for the prizes and the glory just like the koreans want from the NASL, if you really dont want them in get good and knock them out imo.
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Sorry to all the "up and coming" players, but i'd rather see koreans instead of the NRG, vT, vvv and LG etc. guys. Imho, the largest foreign league and 2nd largest worldwide shouldn't be the place for players to prove themselves, it should be for the best of the best players.
As a side note, remember GCPL, VT won 4 games and lost 18(with direct invite) and NRG + vvv didn't even qualify. I'd like to see divisions where everyone is a top player and can take games of eachother. Not where there's 3 "up and coming" players in the bottom of each division.
My 2 cents, sorry if I was a bit harsh towards the non-top players, they are all leagues and leagues beyond my skill level.
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On March 16 2011 02:13 halvorg wrote:
As a side note, remember GCPL, VT won 4 games and lost 18(with direct invite) and NRG + vvv didn't even qualify. I'd like to see divisions where everyone is a top player and can take games of eachother. Not where there's 3 "up and coming" players in the bottom of each division.
My 2 cents, sorry if I was a bit harsh towards the non-top players, they are all leagues and leagues beyond my skill level.
I would not call it harsh, just dumb or maybe uninformed, especially when it comes to vvv and clan leagues.
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We will never compete with Korea if we segregate our communities. We will compete AND grow e-sports by hyping the fun international bond we have and mixing players from both communities as much as possible.
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EPT
