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United Kingdom16710 Posts
On March 16 2011 00:23 Latty wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 00:12 floor exercise wrote:On March 15 2011 23:48 Pokebunny wrote:On March 15 2011 21:48 Nimic wrote:
I'm loving the argument that the Koreans shouldn't be let in because they haven't been involved in the foreigner scene much. For one thing, they sort of have, lately. Dreamhack, IEM, FXOpen(i)s, etc. It's got to start somewhere. And therein lies the second point. There's a logical disconnect somewhere in denying someone the chance to be involved in the foreigner scene because they haven't been a part of the foreigner scene.
You can laugh all you will at their minute-or-less videos (the "jibberish" comment from the Nrg fellow I have never heard of was particularly classy), but this shows that they want to be part of our scene. Is it because of money? Who cares if it is? For one thing it probably isn't, not completely. I'm sure they are like any other people, and would love the chance to travel to different places and compete, perhaps gaining a ton of fans you didn't even know where there in the process. And it's not like Foreigner pro-gamers don't care about money.
I think that if the NASL organizers restricted Korean entries into the league too much, it would betray their stated goal. Namely to have the worlds best players competing. Obviously there should be some sort of restriction, so that all of the players aren't Korean (though I have my doubts that that many Koreans would even try to get in), but we need a fair few Koreans for this to be legitimate.
Sure, a Korean could end up winning the first few seasons. Or Idra could. Or Ret. Or WhiteRA. Either way, can you imagine the publicity the NASL would get in the SC2 community, or even the gaming community in general, the first time a foreigner beat a fairly known Korean? It would make it all worth it. ?? You saw July's video, they read these off a piece of paper probably prepared by a manager. Their videos are more of a turn-off to me than anything, as it shows they can't even communicate properly during the event. They don't want to be a part of the scene, they just want to win the cash with as little effort given as possible. Bashing NrG's manager who has grown the team for six years for a valid comment is also particularly classy. Totally agree, personally the most important factor to me in a SC2 tournament is not how good you are at SC2, but how well you speak English. I would much rather see awful players as long as they knew how to speak American over these players who practice the game and are only interested in winning things. wow thats one of the dumbest things i've read in a while... you cannot be serious
I'm pretty sure he wasn't.
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There aren't enough 'top' foreign players to fill a 50 player tournament, therefore Koreans are actually a necessity for this tournament's appeal. I can't believe the anti-Korean stuff I'm reading in this thread. Without Korean e-sports there wouldn't even be NASL, and it's definitely not 'just for the money'. The Koreans host the premier tournament, make a foreign team house, give foreign seeds, have a foreign relations guy, etc.. and people have the nerve to express that they don't want Koreans in the tournament. It's shameful, really.
So what if they dominate? Foreigners playing against Koreans would be the only way to get onto their level. I hope the 5 Korean spots number isn't true, because that just isn't enough.
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Well to be fair, it's pretty much only Pokebunny and one other guy who argued against the Koreans, and about 300 people disagreeing with them. :p
Nazgul made a sensible post about the matter, that it's ultimately up to the NASL organisers to decide what kind of league they want to conduct.
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Why do people not want the best games possible? Asian or white it's the quality of the game that matters. People were excited about the 2 scenes merging to one, one of the big positives of SC2 eSports, now people are crying that they shouldn't even be allowed in?
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On March 16 2011 00:28 DiaBoLuS wrote:There will be an Demuslim Application today from hospital with the help of rotterdam 
Awesome, gl getting in ben. You deserve a spot.
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LOL at Mondragon's "i suck" attitude. He always does this then he pwns everything.
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On March 16 2011 00:28 DiaBoLuS wrote:There will be an Demuslim Application today from hospital with the help of rotterdam
wow thats nice. DeMuslim still in hospital?
and whats the source?
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Wow people bashing the Koreans because they cannot speak English?
The last time i checked , GSL doesn"t deny the Foreigners a chance to participate because they cannot communicate in korean.
And the point about the Growth of western esports is a fair one , something should be done to limit the number of Korean players in the Tournament. Maybe like 5 overall , 1 per bracket , but they should be absolutely included if they are willing to take part . IEM , MLG , Dreamhack have obviously shown that they pay heed to the western scene .
The bashing going on in here is insane , and the only reason i can think of is fear of the Koreans and honestly if people would whine and moan about a better player than them in a 100,000$ tounament then they have no right to compete in any sort of sport.
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On March 16 2011 00:41 infinity2k9 wrote:
Why do people not want the best games possible? Asian or white it's the quality of the game that matters. People were excited about the 2 scenes merging to one, one of the big positives of SC2 eSports, now people are crying that they shouldn't even be allowed in?
They are threatened because Koreans will take low level NA players spots that they feel they are entitled to. Koreans are unquestionably better than any NrG member or Pokebunny or anyone you could think of to round out a top 50 list.
It's just disappointing to see competitors turning on others for being better than them. On the one hand with some sort of qualifier, or picking more players and quickly whittling down to the top 50, they have a fighting chance. Given the nature of the NASL setup I can't really blame them for their response, because if the NASL expects to be considered a legitimate competition of course it's going to take Koreans who apply over the likes of low level NA players.
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On March 16 2011 00:48 pyro19 wrote:
Wow people bashing the Koreans because they cannot speak English?
The last time i checked , GSL doesn"t deny the Foreigners a chance to participate because they cannot communicate in korean.
And the point about the Growth of western esports is a fair one , something should be done to limit the number of Korean players in the Tournament. Maybe like 5 overall , 1 per bracket , but they should be absolutely included if they are willing to take part . IEM , MLG , Dreamhack have obviously shown that they pay heed to the western scene .
The bashing going on in here is insane , and the only reason i can think of is fear of the Koreans and honestly if people would whine and moan about a better player than them in a 100,000$ tounament then they have no right to compete in any sort of sport.
This.
Remember iNcontroL hyping this up like crazy?
This is a $100,000 tournament for crying out loud.
If NASL turned out strictly as guys like (IdrA, Tyler, Jinro) going against some not-so-famous /unknown top NA players on ladder, it will be a huge disappointment and a flop.
And to be honest, I would be more comfortable seeing a guy like July win "our money" than not-so-famous/unknown top NA player on ladder who play SC2 during his free time in college or high school.
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I wouldn't mind including the community type people for the NASL opening season (Artosis, Incontrol etc.) if it weren't for the fact that only 8 people from the original season will be knocked out of season two (correct me if I'm wrong, looks like that from the bracket pic). That seems like not quite enough turnover unless you're starting out with the best of the best of the best.
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On March 15 2011 23:48 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 21:48 Nimic wrote:
I'm loving the argument that the Koreans shouldn't be let in because they haven't been involved in the foreigner scene much. For one thing, they sort of have, lately. Dreamhack, IEM, FXOpen(i)s, etc. It's got to start somewhere. And therein lies the second point. There's a logical disconnect somewhere in denying someone the chance to be involved in the foreigner scene because they haven't been a part of the foreigner scene.
You can laugh all you will at their minute-or-less videos (the "jibberish" comment from the Nrg fellow I have never heard of was particularly classy), but this shows that they want to be part of our scene. Is it because of money? Who cares if it is? For one thing it probably isn't, not completely. I'm sure they are like any other people, and would love the chance to travel to different places and compete, perhaps gaining a ton of fans you didn't even know where there in the process. And it's not like Foreigner pro-gamers don't care about money.
I think that if the NASL organizers restricted Korean entries into the league too much, it would betray their stated goal. Namely to have the worlds best players competing. Obviously there should be some sort of restriction, so that all of the players aren't Korean (though I have my doubts that that many Koreans would even try to get in), but we need a fair few Koreans for this to be legitimate.
Sure, a Korean could end up winning the first few seasons. Or Idra could. Or Ret. Or WhiteRA. Either way, can you imagine the publicity the NASL would get in the SC2 community, or even the gaming community in general, the first time a foreigner beat a fairly known Korean? It would make it all worth it. ?? You saw July's video, they read these off a piece of paper probably prepared by a manager. Their videos are more of a turn-off to me than anything, as it shows they can't even communicate properly during the event. They don't want to be a part of the scene, they just want to win the cash with as little effort given as possible. Bashing NrG's manager who has grown the team for six years for a valid comment is also particularly classy.
I could understand him fine, are you gonna ban White-Ra aswell for not being good enough on english for you?
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As said previously, I don't envy the person/people who are going to Select the Fab 50.
There's so many good players, especially with Koreans applying, that there's bound to be some dissapointed progamers and controversial decisions/omissions.
Not sure what the right balance for Korean/non korean would be. 5 seems too few, but I wouldn't want a mass of Korean vs Korean games either. the TSL has a nice balance. 10 or so might be good, maybe 15.
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So far I liked Tyler's app the most, state of chill makes this video enjoyable to watch!
ST applications are so nice, though I couldn't actually understand everything from their koreanglish. Would be nice to have them in league, keep in mind that this is opportunity for them to improve their language skills if they are accepted so counting them off just becouse of "inability to communicate" or whatever someone here called is simply wrong.
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On March 16 2011 01:01 DND_Enkil wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 23:48 Pokebunny wrote:On March 15 2011 21:48 Nimic wrote:
I'm loving the argument that the Koreans shouldn't be let in because they haven't been involved in the foreigner scene much. For one thing, they sort of have, lately. Dreamhack, IEM, FXOpen(i)s, etc. It's got to start somewhere. And therein lies the second point. There's a logical disconnect somewhere in denying someone the chance to be involved in the foreigner scene because they haven't been a part of the foreigner scene.
You can laugh all you will at their minute-or-less videos (the "jibberish" comment from the Nrg fellow I have never heard of was particularly classy), but this shows that they want to be part of our scene. Is it because of money? Who cares if it is? For one thing it probably isn't, not completely. I'm sure they are like any other people, and would love the chance to travel to different places and compete, perhaps gaining a ton of fans you didn't even know where there in the process. And it's not like Foreigner pro-gamers don't care about money.
I think that if the NASL organizers restricted Korean entries into the league too much, it would betray their stated goal. Namely to have the worlds best players competing. Obviously there should be some sort of restriction, so that all of the players aren't Korean (though I have my doubts that that many Koreans would even try to get in), but we need a fair few Koreans for this to be legitimate.
Sure, a Korean could end up winning the first few seasons. Or Idra could. Or Ret. Or WhiteRA. Either way, can you imagine the publicity the NASL would get in the SC2 community, or even the gaming community in general, the first time a foreigner beat a fairly known Korean? It would make it all worth it. ?? You saw July's video, they read these off a piece of paper probably prepared by a manager. Their videos are more of a turn-off to me than anything, as it shows they can't even communicate properly during the event. They don't want to be a part of the scene, they just want to win the cash with as little effort given as possible. Bashing NrG's manager who has grown the team for six years for a valid comment is also particularly classy. I could understand him fine, are you gonna ban White-Ra aswell for not being good enough on english for you?
white-ras is boss lol=D its more likely his english would help him getting in ^_^
edit: spelling error
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On March 16 2011 00:39 Gentso wrote:
There aren't enough 'top' foreign players to fill a 50 player tournament, therefore Koreans are actually a necessity for this tournament's appeal. I can't believe the anti-Korean stuff I'm reading in this thread. Without Korean e-sports there wouldn't even be NASL, and it's definitely not 'just for the money'. The Koreans host the premier tournament, make a foreign team house, give foreign seeds, have a foreign relations guy, etc.. and people have the nerve to express that they don't want Koreans in the tournament. It's shameful, really.
So what if they dominate? Foreigners playing against Koreans would be the only way to get onto their level. I hope the 5 Korean spots number isn't true, because that just isn't enough.
I think it depends on what you consider to be a "top" player. But there are 50 people who all can beat each other constantly.
my picks (with some Europea bias, because America doesn't have so many tournaments like Europe):
Zerg: Idra, Ret, Moonglade, Dimaga, Morrow, Haypro, Sen, Darkforce, Seth, Catz, Slush, Killer, Machine, Nerchio, Lalush, (Ciara, Naugrim, Strifecro, ...)
Terran: Jinro, Sjow, Kas, Strelok, BratOK, Demuslim, qxc, Fenix, Select, Tarson, KawaiiRice, Goody, Cloud, Drewbie, Naama, Painuser, (DieStar, Thorzain, ...)
Protoss: Huk, Naniwa, Socke, Mana, Kiwikaki, White-Ra, TT1, Tyler, Adelscott, Axslav, HasuObs, Cruncher, Minigun, Sase, Nightend , ToD (Zeerax, Incontrol, Bischu, elfi, ...)
Random: TLO
that's ~50 players without the 2-4 players I named in the end. I'm pretty sure that I forgot some top players (especially Americans).
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On March 16 2011 01:01 Zorkmid wrote:
I wouldn't mind including the community type people for the NASL opening season (Artosis, Incontrol etc.) if it weren't for the fact that only 8 people from the original season will be knocked out of season two (correct me if I'm wrong, looks like that from the bracket pic). That seems like not quite enough turnover unless you're starting out with the best of the best of the best. You are correct, it's 8 people dropping each season.
Bottom 16 play the next season qualifier, winners stay in.
I just noticed - how will the bottom 16 be determined? Points across all groups? Bottom 3 of each division and the 7th placed with the lowest points?
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On March 16 2011 00:56 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 00:41 infinity2k9 wrote:
Why do people not want the best games possible? Asian or white it's the quality of the game that matters. People were excited about the 2 scenes merging to one, one of the big positives of SC2 eSports, now people are crying that they shouldn't even be allowed in? They are threatened because Koreans will take low level NA players spots that they feel they are entitled to.
They feel they are entitled a spot because?
They speak better english? They're good enough? They live in NA?
Even if they don't get into the 50 list, it's not the end of the world.
There is this awesome open 1024 men bracket.
If lower level people fear stiff competition, would swapping a Korean and leaving Jinro out be OK to them?
If not, then they are pretty much racists.
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People need to stop whining about the Koreans. There isn't some magical skill barrier between the Koreans and foreigners... The fact of the matter is they consistently work harder then the rest of the world. Also, why haven't there been any team houses set up in the western world? This is a HUGE factor that leads to the Korean's success... Living with fellow pro-gamers only makes for a better competitive environment. Ive heard many foreign pro-gamers express this fact.
E-Sports should not be segregated. As far as i'm concerned, their all playing the same game. So why deny competitors who play the same game... Does it really make sense to deny Koreans just because their "better". No, their not "better. Bluntly, as mentioned earlier, the work ethic just isn't the same outside of Korea, and it should be. Why have sub par players in a top Star league for 100,000 dollars.
Now I know this is the NASL, so I understand limiting the amount of Koreans who enter the tournament. But to outright turn them away? Thats just foolish, and a disservice to the competitive nature of E-Sports. Your essentially truncating the true competition.
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Again, I feel the need to reiterate that "people whining about the Koreans" have been exactly 2 people who haven't posted in the thread for a couple pages now.
It's fine to post your opinion on the matter (even if posts are rapidly starting to repeat themselves), but getting all huffed and puffed about the matter now after roughly ~300 people have already shouted them down is overkill and prevents the discussion from going forward. :lol
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EPT
