EPTsolid coverage, no clear vods... people want eSports to take off yet this shit is handled like a geocities event, fuck that. this is why the GSL is the only thing people take seriously.
[IEM] Day 1 - Page 232
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Vei
United States2845 Posts
solid coverage, no clear vods... people want eSports to take off yet this shit is handled like a geocities event, fuck that. this is why the GSL is the only thing people take seriously. | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On March 02 2011 05:17 Vei wrote: lol solid coverage, no clear vods... people want eSports to take off yet this shit is handled like a geocities event, fuck that. this is why the GSL is the only thing people take seriously. I read the first 20 pages of this thread full of people whining about the streaming issues and how gsl was sooo much better. Then I started reading the last pages of the gsl thread for today and surprise surprise it was filled with people complaining about how crappy the gsl stream is, raging like mad. I don't know any tournament that have done a perfect job not even the gsl. | ||
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Shinobi1982
1605 Posts
On March 02 2011 04:56 FrostShadow wrote: It's not a fairy tale. When you see 2 great Koreans (TOP and InCa) at dreamhack perform less than stellar and 2 foreigners in the ro8 in GSL you realize it's not too big a skill difference. sc2 is really random right now, just look at this GSL. I'm sick of these incredibly shortsighted people make giant assumptions based on a tiny bit of data. And what does it say when countless foreigners who are considered to be "amongst the top" are not managing to qualify for GSL? Pretty much only tournaments who have a decent balance of Korean and Westerner players is FXOpen. See whats happening there http://challonge.com/fxopenis1 I'll go even as far as to say this. If Jinro or HuK do not win GSL within 2 seasons no foreigner ever will (unless someone gets the privilege to join a Korean pro team and live/train with them, not to mention the language barrier). It's just a pipe dream to believe that someone who plays SC2 as a hobby can be as good as someone who dedicates his whole life to SC2. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On March 02 2011 05:22 Shinobi1982 wrote: And what does it say when countless foreigners who are considered to be "amongst the top" are not managing to qualify for GSL? Pretty much only tournaments who have a decent balance of Korean and Westerner players is FXOpen. See whats happening there http://challonge.com/fxopenis1 I'll go even as far as to say this. If Jinro or HuK do not win GSL within 2 seasons no foreigner ever will (unless someone gets the privilege to join a Korean pro team and live/train with them, not to mention the language barrier). It's just a pipe dream to believe that someone who plays SC2 as a hobby can be as good as someone who dedicates his whole life to SC2. You mean like Jinro, Huk and other liquid players, right? That time limit makes no sense whatsoever. Do you also believe the current korean players won't be able to win GSL either if they don't win within 2 seasons? | ||
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Vei
United States2845 Posts
On March 02 2011 05:22 nihlon wrote: I read the first 20 pages of this thread full of people whining about the streaming issues and how gsl was sooo much better. Then I started reading the last pages of the gsl thread for today and surprise surprise it was filled with people complaining about how crappy the gsl stream is, raging like mad. I don't know any tournament that have done a perfect job not even the gsl. last night yeah, the gsl didn't work, technical issues are excusable when out of every time i've watched the GSL live last night was the only time i couldn't -- i'll accept that, i am reasonable despite how fucking turned off i am by the IEM. last night the IEM was delayed by 1 hour (first it said 12:00, then 12:30, then 12:45, then 1:00 and i was like ok fuck it). today there isn't a fucking clean page with spoiler-free VODs; how can you possibly want esports to grow when you forget the fucking BASICS? have fun having a eurocentric crowd if all you have is delayed 1 am PST coverage and no VODs available. like, come on... but yeah I'm sure ridiculous people were flaming the fuck out of GSL for it being unavailable for ONE night. | ||
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
On March 02 2011 05:22 Shinobi1982 wrote: And what does it say when countless foreigners who are considered to be "amongst the top" are not managing to qualify for GSL? Pretty much only tournaments who have a decent balance of Korean and Westerner players is FXOpen. See whats happening there http://challonge.com/fxopenis1 I'll go even as far as to say this. If Jinro or HuK do not win GSL within 2 seasons no foreigner ever will (unless someone gets the privilege to join a Korean pro team and live/train with them, not to mention the language barrier). It's just a pipe dream to believe that someone who plays SC2 as a hobby can be as good as someone who dedicates his whole life to SC2. If you by providing that link want to prove that foreigners can beat koreans you did a good job. And no one is arguing who will be better in two years. Naturally if the westerns esport scene doesn't expand (which it might) the Koreans will pull further and further ahead. | ||
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Asha
United Kingdom38257 Posts
On March 02 2011 04:56 FrostShadow wrote: When you see 2 great Koreans (TOP and InCa) at dreamhack perform less than stellar and 2 foreigners in the ro8 in GSL you realize it's not too big a skill difference. Then you say: I'm sick of these incredibly shortsighted people make giant assumptions based on a tiny bit of data. Dreamhack is a tiny bit of data lol, there have been far more instances of the results being the other way around *shrug* Kaspersky saw 4 Korean based players invited to play 4 of the very top european players at the time (who were determined by group play). After the first round of knockout matches, it was only the Korean players left. There have been 2 FXOpens that saw Korean players invited, both were won fairly comfortably by a Korean player. Despite the prodigious foreign talent that has tried out for Code A, only one player has won a match in 5 attempts. Today saw a Korean invite absolutely romp through a group containing some of the best Western players without even dropping a map. Idra and Jinro are certainly proof that foreign players can compete at the top levels, I don't think anyone will argue that. It may be that despite todays domination a Western player does come out on top of the this tournament too. The point in general is that there are simply many Korean players capable of playing at that kind of level, while it seems increasingly clear there aren't that many Western players who can do so at the current point in time. Given differences in mentality, dedication to training, and concentration of quality practice partners, it subsequently seems likely that any divide will continue to expand rather than close. | ||
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Shinobi1982
1605 Posts
Basically the ones who have dedicated their lives to SC2 and have the ideal training environment. | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On March 02 2011 05:27 Vei wrote: last night yeah, the gsl didn't work, technical issues are excusable when out of every time i've watched the GSL live last night was the only time i couldn't -- i'll accept that, i am reasonable despite how fucking turned off i am by the IEM. last night the IEM was delayed by 1 hour (first it said 12:00, then 12:30, then 12:45, then 1:00 and i was like ok fuck it). today there isn't a fucking clean page with spoiler-free VODs; how can you possibly want esports to grow when you forget the fucking BASICS? have fun having a eurocentric crowd if all you have is delayed 1 am PST coverage and no VODs available. like, come on... but yeah I'm sure ridiculous people were flaming the fuck out of GSL for it being unavailable for ONE night. Lol are your freaking serious? People have been flaming the shit out of the gsl ever since the first season. Do you even remember how crappy their services was for gsl1? You can't have read a single gdt if you think that today was a single event. If the gsl stream have worked perfectly for you, congratulation, but don't act like gsl is some freaking role model when it comes to streaming. | ||
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stalife
Canada1222 Posts
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FrostShadow
United States335 Posts
On March 02 2011 05:30 Asha` wrote: Then you say: Dreamhack is a tiny bit of data lol, there have been far more instances of the results being the other way around *shrug* Kaspersky saw 4 Korean based players invited to play 4 of the very top european players at the time (who were determined by group play). After the first round of knockout matches, it was only the Korean players left. There have been 2 FXOpens that saw Korean players invited, both were won fairly comfortably by a Korean player. Despite the prodigious foreign talent that has tried out for Code A, only one player has won a match in 5 attempts. Today saw a Korean invite absolutely romp through a group containing some of the best Western players without even dropping a map. Idra and Jinro are certainly proof that foreign players can compete at the top levels, I don't think anyone will argue that. It may be that despite todays domination a Western player does come out on top of the this tournament too. The point in general is that there are simply many Korean players capable of playing at that kind of level, while it seems increasingly clear there aren't that many Western players who can do so at the current point in time. Given differences in mentality, dedication to training, and concentration of quality practice partners, it subsequently seems likely that any divide will continue to expand rather than close. You missed the point. I said that about those two great players to show an example of how you shouldnt make decisions based on such a small amount of data. Sorry it was not clear. | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
On March 02 2011 05:22 Shinobi1982 wrote: And what does it say when countless foreigners who are considered to be "amongst the top" are not managing to qualify for GSL? Pretty much only tournaments who have a decent balance of Korean and Westerner players is FXOpen. See whats happening there http://challonge.com/fxopenis1 I'll go even as far as to say this. If Jinro or HuK do not win GSL within 2 seasons no foreigner ever will (unless someone gets the privilege to join a Korean pro team and live/train with them, not to mention the language barrier). It's just a pipe dream to believe that someone who plays SC2 as a hobby can be as good as someone who dedicates his whole life to SC2. I would doubt that. Sc2 isn't doing too well in korea and with nasl and other leagues or tournaments with huge prize pools popping up, there'll be more incentive than ever for foreign players and teams to start treating the game the way koreans do. We're probably going to see a team house in sweden within a couple of months and it wouldn't surprise me if certain teams would try to set up team houses for the nasl as well. | ||
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loklok
Germany161 Posts
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Prostak
Poland192 Posts
http://www.esl-world.net/masters/season5/hanover/sc2/groupstage/match/21729580 round 2 | ||
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WniO
United States2706 Posts
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Shinobi1982
1605 Posts
On March 02 2011 05:37 hifriend wrote: I would doubt that. Sc2 isn't doing too well in korea and with nasl and other leagues or tournaments with huge prize pools popping up, there'll be more incentive than ever for foreign players and teams to start treating the game the way koreans do. We're probably going to see a team house in sweden within a couple of months and it wouldn't surprise me if certain teams would try to set up team houses for the nasl as well. That would be ideal. I certainly hope there is movement towards such goals (foreign SC2 train houses). | ||
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namedplayer
844 Posts
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Escapist
Portugal548 Posts
EGIdrA (Z) VS STAcE (P) G1 [IEM Worlds] Peace. | ||
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Influ
Germany780 Posts
On March 02 2011 05:27 Vei wrote: last night yeah, the gsl didn't work, technical issues are excusable when out of every time i've watched the GSL live last night was the only time i couldn't -- i'll accept that, i am reasonable despite how fucking turned off i am by the IEM. last night the IEM was delayed by 1 hour (first it said 12:00, then 12:30, then 12:45, then 1:00 and i was like ok fuck it). today there isn't a fucking clean page with spoiler-free VODs; how can you possibly want esports to grow when you forget the fucking BASICS? have fun having a eurocentric crowd if all you have is delayed 1 am PST coverage and no VODs available. like, come on... but yeah I'm sure ridiculous people were flaming the fuck out of GSL for it being unavailable for ONE night. The "BASICS"? WHAT THE???? Seriously, i was about to post a wall of rage but damn this is not even worth my time. However, it's such a disapointment that LR threads seem to only be balance whine, bashing casters or organisations bashing left and right whereever you can. Everybody says they want esports to grow while they sit at home and do nothing while they diss poeple who are making exactly that happen what they apparently want and working their asses of. I know this is the internetz and stuff but some people really should just shut the fuck up... | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
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