On March 02 2011 03:39 Vehemus wrote: But he doesn't have any of the statistics to back it up and has not performed well at all in tournaments. Until he comes to IEM and goes undefeated in the world championships against foreign players.
So going 3-1 in GSTL against four different opponents is worth less than going 0:2 in Code A against one opponent? Being a former BW progamer (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Ameba) doesn't mean anything either? I think you are being rather ignorant there. Ace IS one of the world's best Protoss players for sure...
On March 02 2011 03:08 Manatea wrote: More Korean responses translation from playxp.
- how is it possible protoss lost with 8 gas? - I understand now why Blizzard's patches are always awful after I watched ESL - idra became weaker since he left Korea.... lost one game?(vs morrow) what's wrong with you? - why no stream for Ace? - lol caster is saying Korean terms pong pong mode - I've waited for a long time to watch Ace's play... it sucks. - caster and commentator are so funny though play level is not high. - foreign players are rough gemstones. they have potentials and creative playstyles. - idra's thought; Damn, I just ran away from Korean but why they came here and put obstacles in my way... - come back, grack I miss you - why foreigners don't construct production buildings? He got two expo but only four gateways and one Robotics facility... terran has only four or five, too. even though he has over than 1000 mineral - Come on, foreign terran players! We need Terran nerf!
and dear playxp users. I know some of you guys criticized my post. I don't want Korean scene is isolated from the foreign scene like BW scene. You don't need to make fake good image of Korea. you're not judged by your nationality. We need more open communication, don't be afraid and be a citizen of the world. Good luck for some of you who post "damn I'm gonna learn English with Teamliquid" cause I'm doing the same things.
I'm gonna sleep now.
They're so full of themselves it makes me really upset tbh. A lot of the plays in GSL has been far from impressive as well and they're already claiming that they are lightyears ahead. Get a reality check, the level of play the korean netizens are seeing here are not as far away from their precious GSL.
Western players aren't going to get any better until they admit that they're falling so far behind in skill. I can't believe you're even trying to make this point when a mediocre Korean player like Ace (#62 pro player in Korea right now by ELO) goes completely undefeated and ruins an entire group of what's supposed to be the top players in the world.
Ace isn't even good enough for Code A and got knocked out in the first round.
I can't believe you're trying to make this point either. You fail to realize he also beat a well-seasoned code S zerg player (despite not being able to make it into code A) and the very same Code S player dropped a game vs Morrow.
I'm not saying my statements make any difference towards my argument either, it's simply to show how ridiculously bad it is to try to come in and take 1 day results from a group stage and try to make a point.
That's great and all, but you don't even seem to realize that he was IN code A and couldn't even win his first round PvZ. Could have been bad luck, it really couldn't be blamed on a bad matchup, but all Ace has done is win a few team league games and then lose all of his games in the GSL.
If you guys think he's one of the best Protoss players in the world, then that's your opinion. But he doesn't have any of the statistics to back it up and has not performed well at all in tournaments. Until he comes to IEM and goes undefeated in the world championships against foreign players.
I think our definitions are different. What do you define IdrA as? He's been living in korea for the past 3 years and has been in Code S forever, yet you still make the argument he's stomping through foreingers like that proves anything, when he also walked right over a code S player.
Sure, if the koreans start travelling here and stomping through everything for a year, then we results that can be used to back up arguments. One groupstage? Not likely.
About Ace, I don't think people realize how ridiculously competitive GSL/korea is. Even amazing players like ret lost in the first round of Code A. You don't have to have good results in GSL to be considered a top player in my opinion. So I'm not surprised Ace is doing so well in his group.
I'm not saying I agree with the Korean view of things, but I totally feel that many foreign fans are just ITCHING for the day to dethrone Koreans and laugh in their faces.
Sad to say, but judging from the last week's tournament games it's not gonna happen anytime soon. Ret knocked out of Code A first round Haypro knocked out of Code A first round Loner knocked out of Code A first round IdrA realized he couldn't hang with the big boys and retreated back to the west Ace, a medicore korean player who can't even advance in Code A, kills the world's top foreign players
Although Jinro and Huk are still alive, it's clear that the world is not catching up to Korea. In fact it's just the opposite: Whatever small amount of ground foreigners had, they are quickly losing it and getting phased out.
On March 02 2011 03:08 Manatea wrote: More Korean responses translation from playxp.
- how is it possible protoss lost with 8 gas? - I understand now why Blizzard's patches are always awful after I watched ESL - idra became weaker since he left Korea.... lost one game?(vs morrow) what's wrong with you? - why no stream for Ace? - lol caster is saying Korean terms pong pong mode - I've waited for a long time to watch Ace's play... it sucks. - caster and commentator are so funny though play level is not high. - foreign players are rough gemstones. they have potentials and creative playstyles. - idra's thought; Damn, I just ran away from Korean but why they came here and put obstacles in my way... - come back, grack I miss you - why foreigners don't construct production buildings? He got two expo but only four gateways and one Robotics facility... terran has only four or five, too. even though he has over than 1000 mineral - Come on, foreign terran players! We need Terran nerf!
and dear playxp users. I know some of you guys criticized my post. I don't want Korean scene is isolated from the foreign scene like BW scene. You don't need to make fake good image of Korea. you're not judged by your nationality. We need more open communication, don't be afraid and be a citizen of the world. Good luck for some of you who post "damn I'm gonna learn English with Teamliquid" cause I'm doing the same things.
I'm gonna sleep now.
They're so full of themselves it makes me really upset tbh. A lot of the plays in GSL has been far from impressive as well and they're already claiming that they are lightyears ahead. Get a reality check, the level of play the korean netizens are seeing here are not as far away from their precious GSL.
Western players aren't going to get any better until they admit that they're falling so far behind in skill. I can't believe you're even trying to make this point when a mediocre Korean player like Ace (#62 pro player in Korea right now by ELO) goes completely undefeated and ruins an entire group of what's supposed to be the top players in the world.
Ace isn't even good enough for Code A and got knocked out in the first round.
I can't believe you're trying to make this point either. You fail to realize he also beat a well-seasoned code S zerg player (despite not being able to make it into code A) and the very same Code S player dropped a game vs Morrow.
I'm not saying my statements make any difference towards my argument either, it's simply to show how ridiculously bad it is to try to come in and take 1 day results from a group stage and try to make a point.
That's great and all, but you don't even seem to realize that he was IN code A and couldn't even win his first round PvZ. Could have been bad luck, it really couldn't be blamed on a bad matchup, but all Ace has done is win a few team league games and then lose all of his games in the GSL.
If you guys think he's one of the best Protoss players in the world, then that's your opinion. But he doesn't have any of the statistics to back it up and has not performed well at all in tournaments. Until he comes to IEM and goes undefeated in the world championships against foreign players.
He did very well in the GSTL. Maybe he is predictable and lost because of that in GSL Code A. The GSL Matches are totally different from a LAN environment, because you can prepare specifically for an player. That would explain why he allmost all-killed the TSL clan, but lost in the first round Code A.
I mean his PvP build was very risky, it would be easily countered by a 4gate. He was lucky that White-Ra didn't 4gate.
His PvZ openings (against morrow) also were very risky.
I'm not saying I agree with the Korean view of things, but I totally feel that many foreign fans are just ITCHING for the day to dethrone Koreans and laugh in their faces.
Sad to say, but judging from the last week's tournament games it's not gonna happen anytime soon. Ret knocked out of Code A first round Haypro knocked out of Code A first round Loner knocked out of Code A first round IdrA realized he couldn't hang with the big boys and retreated back to the west Ace, a medicore korean player who can't even advance in Code A, kills the world's top foreign players
Although Jinro and Huk are still alive, it's clear that the world is not catching up to Korea. In fact it's just the opposite: Whatever small amount of ground foreigners had, they are quickly losing it and getting phased out.
I'm sure Idra sind "retreat" because he had no chance. Last season he went very far and eliminated a group 3-0 where he wasnt expected to get through and didnt even got knocked out by a Korean. And Jinro is better than the majority of korean terrans, so don't judge because of one tournament where a korean has a good run vs players from the west.
On March 02 2011 03:08 Manatea wrote: More Korean responses translation from playxp.
- how is it possible protoss lost with 8 gas? - I understand now why Blizzard's patches are always awful after I watched ESL - idra became weaker since he left Korea.... lost one game?(vs morrow) what's wrong with you? - why no stream for Ace? - lol caster is saying Korean terms pong pong mode - I've waited for a long time to watch Ace's play... it sucks. - caster and commentator are so funny though play level is not high. - foreign players are rough gemstones. they have potentials and creative playstyles. - idra's thought; Damn, I just ran away from Korean but why they came here and put obstacles in my way... - come back, grack I miss you - why foreigners don't construct production buildings? He got two expo but only four gateways and one Robotics facility... terran has only four or five, too. even though he has over than 1000 mineral - Come on, foreign terran players! We need Terran nerf!
and dear playxp users. I know some of you guys criticized my post. I don't want Korean scene is isolated from the foreign scene like BW scene. You don't need to make fake good image of Korea. you're not judged by your nationality. We need more open communication, don't be afraid and be a citizen of the world. Good luck for some of you who post "damn I'm gonna learn English with Teamliquid" cause I'm doing the same things.
I'm gonna sleep now.
They're so full of themselves it makes me really upset tbh. A lot of the plays in GSL has been far from impressive as well and they're already claiming that they are lightyears ahead. Get a reality check, the level of play the korean netizens are seeing here are not as far away from their precious GSL.
Western players aren't going to get any better until they admit that they're falling so far behind in skill. I can't believe you're even trying to make this point when a mediocre Korean player like Ace (#62 pro player in Korea right now by ELO) goes completely undefeated and ruins an entire group of what's supposed to be the top players in the world.
Ace isn't even good enough for Code A and got knocked out in the first round.
I can't believe you're trying to make this point either. You fail to realize he also beat a well-seasoned code S zerg player (despite not being able to make it into code A) and the very same Code S player dropped a game vs Morrow.
I'm not saying my statements make any difference towards my argument either, it's simply to show how ridiculously bad it is to try to come in and take 1 day results from a group stage and try to make a point.
That's great and all, but you don't even seem to realize that he was IN code A and couldn't even win his first round PvZ. Could have been bad luck, it really couldn't be blamed on a bad matchup, but all Ace has done is win a few team league games and then lose all of his games in the GSL.
If you guys think he's one of the best Protoss players in the world, then that's your opinion. But he doesn't have any of the statistics to back it up and has not performed well at all in tournaments. Until he comes to IEM and goes undefeated in the world championships against foreign players.
I think our definitions are different. What do you define IdrA as? He's been living in korea for the past 3 years and has been in Code S forever, yet you still make the argument he's stomping through foreingers like that proves anything, when he also walked right over a code S player.
Sure, if the koreans start travelling here and stomping through everything for a year, then we results that can be used to back up arguments. One groupstage? Not likely.
Beating a Code S player in a set isn't the same as going 10-0 in a tournament.
That's like the difference between NesTea's GSL2 run and getting knocked out first set in the current GSL.
Anybody can drop a set or a match to a player of even or lesser skill. If it happens a dozen times in a row, I don't see how you can even try to make this claim.
On March 02 2011 01:34 Doraemon.doraemon wrote: 220 page so far for IEM day 1... this shows people really like to watch their local players instead of players in a far far away land called south korea despite some skill difference
That and a whole lot of moaning about the lack of a constant English stream and IEM not showing us games we wanted to watch, not enough Day9 casting etc etc.
It's worth realizing that part of the reason GSL players have better mechanics is because many if not most of them come from Korean BW backgrounds. As Ret, Tyler, and Idra - ie just about everyone who's been to Korea for BW - pointed out on many separate occasions, the mechanics possessed by Korean BW pro-gamers - be they A-teamers or B-teamers - are matched by very few foreigners, and are the result of years of training. It's no surprise that most foreigners, who have never attained mechanics comparable to Korean BW pro-gamers, are not up to par mechanics-wise in SC 2. You have to train, hard, for that kind of mechanics and most foreigners just aren't willing/able to do that.
I'm not saying I agree with the Korean view of things, but I totally feel that many foreign fans are just ITCHING for the day to dethrone Koreans and laugh in their faces.
Sad to say, but judging from the last week's tournament games it's not gonna happen anytime soon. Ret knocked out of Code A first round Haypro knocked out of Code A first round Loner knocked out of Code A first round IdrA realized he couldn't hang with the big boys and retreated back to the west Ace, a medicore korean player who can't even advance in Code A, kills the world's top foreign players
Although Jinro and Huk are still alive, it's clear that the world is not catching up to Korea. In fact it's just the opposite: Whatever small amount of ground foreigners had, they are quickly losing it and getting phased out.
x=3
Because x=3, we can conclude that f(x) is decreasing.
On March 02 2011 03:08 Manatea wrote: More Korean responses translation from playxp.
- how is it possible protoss lost with 8 gas? - I understand now why Blizzard's patches are always awful after I watched ESL - idra became weaker since he left Korea.... lost one game?(vs morrow) what's wrong with you? - why no stream for Ace? - lol caster is saying Korean terms pong pong mode - I've waited for a long time to watch Ace's play... it sucks. - caster and commentator are so funny though play level is not high. - foreign players are rough gemstones. they have potentials and creative playstyles. - idra's thought; Damn, I just ran away from Korean but why they came here and put obstacles in my way... - come back, grack I miss you - why foreigners don't construct production buildings? He got two expo but only four gateways and one Robotics facility... terran has only four or five, too. even though he has over than 1000 mineral - Come on, foreign terran players! We need Terran nerf!
and dear playxp users. I know some of you guys criticized my post. I don't want Korean scene is isolated from the foreign scene like BW scene. You don't need to make fake good image of Korea. you're not judged by your nationality. We need more open communication, don't be afraid and be a citizen of the world. Good luck for some of you who post "damn I'm gonna learn English with Teamliquid" cause I'm doing the same things.
I'm gonna sleep now.
They're so full of themselves it makes me really upset tbh. A lot of the plays in GSL has been far from impressive as well and they're already claiming that they are lightyears ahead. Get a reality check, the level of play the korean netizens are seeing here are not as far away from their precious GSL.
Western players aren't going to get any better until they admit that they're falling so far behind in skill. I can't believe you're even trying to make this point when a mediocre Korean player like Ace (#62 pro player in Korea right now by ELO) goes completely undefeated and ruins an entire group of what's supposed to be the top players in the world.
Ace isn't even good enough for Code A and got knocked out in the first round.
I can't believe you're trying to make this point either. You fail to realize he also beat a well-seasoned code S zerg player (despite not being able to make it into code A) and the very same Code S player dropped a game vs Morrow.
I'm not saying my statements make any difference towards my argument either, it's simply to show how ridiculously bad it is to try to come in and take 1 day results from a group stage and try to make a point.
That's great and all, but you don't even seem to realize that he was IN code A and couldn't even win his first round PvZ. Could have been bad luck, it really couldn't be blamed on a bad matchup, but all Ace has done is win a few team league games and then lose all of his games in the GSL.
If you guys think he's one of the best Protoss players in the world, then that's your opinion. But he doesn't have any of the statistics to back it up and has not performed well at all in tournaments. Until he comes to IEM and goes undefeated in the world championships against foreign players.
I think our definitions are different. What do you define IdrA as? He's been living in korea for the past 3 years and has been in Code S forever, yet you still make the argument he's stomping through foreingers like that proves anything, when he also walked right over a code S player.
Sure, if the koreans start travelling here and stomping through everything for a year, then we results that can be used to back up arguments. One groupstage? Not likely.
Beating a Code S player in a set isn't the same as going 10-0 in a tournament.
That's like the difference between NesTea's GSL2 run and getting knocked out first set in the current GSL.
Anybody can drop a set or a match to a player of even or lesser skill. If it happens a dozen times in a row, I don't see how you can even try to make this claim.
So.. we agree? I'm not really sure what we're disagreeing with anymore. You claim things that would counter-argument your previous statements. The point is you can't draw the conclusion koreans > foreigners due to Ace going 8-0, then simply say the 2-0 vs IdrA is irrelevant because "anyone can drop a set or match to a player of even or lesser skiller". The same thing can be said for each of his matches against the foreigners, there were only 1 set, 4 different players, anyone can drop a set, right?
I would just like to clarify I'm not trying to state that foreigners > koreans. I'm simply trying to say that I think the gap is a lot less than one would think. The gap is getting broader each day though, and it saddens me that we're all "letting this happen".
Also, I don't have anything against koreans per se. It's just frustrating to see the beginning of what BW is today, when we actually have the means to compete with the koreans this time.
I'm not saying I agree with the Korean view of things, but I totally feel that many foreign fans are just ITCHING for the day to dethrone Koreans and laugh in their faces.
Sad to say, but judging from the last week's tournament games it's not gonna happen anytime soon. Ret knocked out of Code A first round Haypro knocked out of Code A first round Loner knocked out of Code A first round IdrA realized he couldn't hang with the big boys and retreated back to the west Ace, a medicore korean player who can't even advance in Code A, kills the world's top foreign players
Although Jinro and Huk are still alive, it's clear that the world is not catching up to Korea. In fact it's just the opposite: Whatever small amount of ground foreigners had, they are quickly losing it and getting phased out.
I'm sure Idra sind "retreat" because he had no chance. Last season he went very far and eliminated a group 3-0 where he wasnt expected to get through and didnt even got knocked out by a Korean. And Jinro is better than the majority of korean terrans, so don't judge because of one tournament where a korean has a good run vs players from the west.
Sure Jinro is good, but he's 1 guy. Non-koreans (aka the 6 billion people in the world not in korea) as a whole are still falling behind rather than catching up.
And not only are the foreigners as a whole falling behind, the koreans themselves as a whole are moving forward, as this season's GSL is showing. Fruitdealer [GSL winner]: Knocked out Nestea [GSL winner]: Knocked out MVP [GSL winner]: Knocked out MKP [GSL finalist x2]: Knocked out Rainbow [GSL finalist]: Knocked out Rain [GSL finalist] is languishing in Code A and the only finals participant who's still alive is oGsMC.
What this means is that the koreans previously regarded as mid-tier are quickly improving their game and pushing ahead to the point where all the old winners are getting overtaken. The old champs can't rest on their laurels anymore without getting eaten alive, that's how fast the koreans are improving.
I'm not saying I agree with the Korean view of things, but I totally feel that many foreign fans are just ITCHING for the day to dethrone Koreans and laugh in their faces.
Sad to say, but judging from the last week's tournament games it's not gonna happen anytime soon. Ret knocked out of Code A first round Haypro knocked out of Code A first round Loner knocked out of Code A first round IdrA realized he couldn't hang with the big boys and retreated back to the west Ace, a medicore korean player who can't even advance in Code A, kills the world's top foreign players
Although Jinro and Huk are still alive, it's clear that the world is not catching up to Korea. In fact it's just the opposite: Whatever small amount of ground foreigners had, they are quickly losing it and getting phased out.
I'm sure Idra sind "retreat" because he had no chance. Last season he went very far and eliminated a group 3-0 where he wasnt expected to get through and didnt even got knocked out by a Korean. And Jinro is better than the majority of korean terrans, so don't judge because of one tournament where a korean has a good run vs players from the west.
Sure Jinro is good, but he's 1 guy. Non-koreans (aka the 6 billion people in the world not in korea) as a whole are still falling behind rather than catching up.
And not only are the foreigners as a whole falling behind, the koreans themselves as a whole are moving forward, as this season's GSL is showing. Fruitdealer [GSL winner]: Knocked out Nestea [GSL winner]: Knocked out MVP [GSL winner]: Knocked out MKP [GSL finalist x2]: Knocked out Rainbow [GSL finalist]: Knocked out Rain [GSL finalist] is languishing in Code A and the only finals participant who's still alive is oGsMC.
What this means is that the koreans previously regarded as mid-tier are quickly improving their game and pushing ahead to the point where all the old winners are getting overtaken. The old champs can't rest on their laurels anymore without getting eaten alive, that's how fast the koreans are improving.
I'm not saying I agree with the Korean view of things, but I totally feel that many foreign fans are just ITCHING for the day to dethrone Koreans and laugh in their faces.
Sad to say, but judging from the last week's tournament games it's not gonna happen anytime soon. Ret knocked out of Code A first round Haypro knocked out of Code A first round Loner knocked out of Code A first round IdrA realized he couldn't hang with the big boys and retreated back to the west Ace, a medicore korean player who can't even advance in Code A, kills the world's top foreign players
Although Jinro and Huk are still alive, it's clear that the world is not catching up to Korea. In fact it's just the opposite: Whatever small amount of ground foreigners had, they are quickly losing it and getting phased out.
I'm sure Idra sind "retreat" because he had no chance. Last season he went very far and eliminated a group 3-0 where he wasnt expected to get through and didnt even got knocked out by a Korean. And Jinro is better than the majority of korean terrans, so don't judge because of one tournament where a korean has a good run vs players from the west.
Sure Jinro is good, but he's 1 guy. Non-koreans (aka the 6 billion people in the world not in korea) as a whole are still falling behind rather than catching up.
And not only are the foreigners as a whole falling behind, the koreans themselves as a whole are moving forward, as this season's GSL is showing. Fruitdealer [GSL winner]: Knocked out Nestea [GSL winner]: Knocked out MVP [GSL winner]: Knocked out MKP [GSL finalist x2]: Knocked out Rainbow [GSL finalist]: Knocked out Rain [GSL finalist] is languishing in Code A and the only finals participant who's still alive is oGsMC.
What this means is that the koreans previously regarded as mid-tier are quickly improving their game and pushing ahead to the point where all the old winners are getting overtaken. The old champs can't rest on their laurels anymore without getting eaten alive, that's how fast the koreans are improving.
That only means that BO1 group stages are very very bad. Nestea, MKP & MVP are still above average code S.
EPT
