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On December 02 2010 04:23 latan wrote:
very solid play by jinro, for few moments i was worried when moon started getting more and more mutas on both games, i have no idea what it is that jinro did to make them kinda useless. game 2 he roflstomped but good fighting spirit by moon.
idra game 3: why did he have no army?
If he makes an army T scans it and doesn't move out
He loses either way
On a bigger map T can't push to his base in 5 seconds and he can actually make something to defend with once he knows the push is coming.
StarCraft 101 ffs
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On December 02 2010 04:25 hugman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 04:23 latan wrote:
very solid play by jinro, for few moments i was worried when moon started getting more and more mutas on both games, i have no idea what it is that jinro did to make them kinda useless. game 2 he roflstomped but good fighting spirit by moon.
idra game 3: why did he have no army? If he makes an army T scans it and doesn't move out He loses either way On a bigger map T can't push to his base in 5 seconds and he can actually make something to defend with once he knows the push is coming. StarCraft 101 ffs
I said this before somewhere but thats the huge disadvantage for Zerg in close positions that doesnt happen to Terran or Protoss. Thats what happens when you have to make either drones OR army from only one building.
Idra saw that MVP had an expansion. If he makes army he falls behind in economy (2base vs 2base) = loss. If he made drones he doesnt have an army for timing attacks = loss. Its basically a 50/50 chance to decide how he wants to lose =\
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BS, greedy zerg is greedy.
also i've seen plenty of ZvT wins on meta close position with equally skilled players, please abandon that myth.
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On December 02 2010 04:24 hugman wrote:
It's not stupid just because you don't understand it positron
I never called anything stupid in my post. You are right I would never understand how people could be so biased.
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On December 01 2010 22:26 Plutonium wrote:It's code for marijuana. It's probably a parody of how dumbasses name themselves on Xbox live.
Lol Yeah Xbox live gamer tags are ridiculous.
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Holy crap I got every one of last night's Liquibets wrong. What the hell Boxer, IdrA, Moon, Check?
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On December 02 2010 04:34 latan wrote:
BS, greedy zerg is greedy.
also i've seen plenty of ZvT wins on meta close position with equally skilled players, please abandon that myth.
Tons of top players have posted that close positions on metal is imbalanced against zerg and have listed their reasons why. I don't think anyone is going to abandon that "myth" anytime soon.
Primarily because it is a well documented fact and a couple fluke wins here and there between supposedly equally skilled players doesn't make it a myth.
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On December 02 2010 04:34 theherder2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 04:25 hugman wrote:On December 02 2010 04:23 latan wrote:
very solid play by jinro, for few moments i was worried when moon started getting more and more mutas on both games, i have no idea what it is that jinro did to make them kinda useless. game 2 he roflstomped but good fighting spirit by moon.
idra game 3: why did he have no army? If he makes an army T scans it and doesn't move out He loses either way On a bigger map T can't push to his base in 5 seconds and he can actually make something to defend with once he knows the push is coming. StarCraft 101 ffs I said this before somewhere but thats the huge disadvantage for Zerg in close positions that doesnt happen to Terran or Protoss. Thats what happens when you have to make either drones OR army from only one building. Idra saw that MVP had an expansion. If he makes army he falls behind in economy (2base vs 2base) = loss. If he made drones he doesnt have an army for timing attacks = loss. Its basically a 50/50 chance to decide how he wants to lose =\
Umm you can make drones and a army from one building. If you have 10 larva, make 6 drones and 4 fighting units instead of power droning. This is what happens when you are greedy.
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idrA played way too greedily on blistering sands. I realize his macro style calls for an early third but he didn't even come close to having his second fully saturated. also, putting his macro hatchery at his weakest, most undefendable base while it is under seige was silly.
I love idrA, I think he's one of the strongest players in the GSL and it is a shame he lost the way he did but he does go for greedy builds. I understand him and Ret practiced hard for that situation on Metalopolis but that wasn't even all in. It was idrA's fault for droning so hard after the pressure. He was only 3 workers behind after the marine scv pressure. There was no reason to sit and drone for 3 minutes.
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On December 02 2010 04:51 -Frog- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 04:34 latan wrote:
BS, greedy zerg is greedy.
also i've seen plenty of ZvT wins on meta close position with equally skilled players, please abandon that myth. Tons of top players have posted that close positions on metal is imbalanced against zerg and have listed their reasons why. I don't think anyone is going to abandon that "myth" anytime soon. Primarily because it is a well documented fact and a couple fluke wins here and there between supposedly equally skilled players doesn't make it a myth.
well documented schmented the game is still in it's infancy. I feel it's a notion put out by day9 (expanding tooowards the oponent...) that eveyone assumed as truth, curiosly i haven't heard him repeat that mantra lately.
but ok, ok lets say i'm wrong as i often am and asuume that the scenario is:
If he makes an army T scans it and doesn't move out
He loses either way
as stated before. then the bet is:
(a) he doesn't make an army and loses now
(b) he builds some units AND the opponent sees it, then he loses later.
so the bet is lose now or lose later. that's not even a choice, you should choose lose later specially if it's the deciding game. that's what strategy is all about. so it's a mistake either way.
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He had to drone hard, he was behind
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Wow didn't expect to wake up and see that Boxer lost 2-1. I thought Boxer v Jinro would have been bad ass.
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Congrats to Jinro and choya.
Liquid Fighting!
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On December 02 2010 05:05 latan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 04:51 -Frog- wrote:On December 02 2010 04:34 latan wrote:
BS, greedy zerg is greedy.
also i've seen plenty of ZvT wins on meta close position with equally skilled players, please abandon that myth. Tons of top players have posted that close positions on metal is imbalanced against zerg and have listed their reasons why. I don't think anyone is going to abandon that "myth" anytime soon. Primarily because it is a well documented fact and a couple fluke wins here and there between supposedly equally skilled players doesn't make it a myth. well documented schmented the game is still in it's infancy. I feel it's a notion put out by day9 (expanding tooowards the oponent...) that eveyone assumed as truth, curiosly i haven't heard him repeat that mantra lately. but ok, ok lets say i'm wrong as i often am and asuume that the scenario is: as stated before. then the bet is: (a) he doesn't make an army and loses now (b) he builds some units AND the opponent sees it, then he loses later. so the bet is lose now or lose later. that's not even a choice, you should choose lose later specially if it's the deciding game. that's what strategy is all about. so it's a mistake either way.
Infancy or not it's a basic RTS concept: if one race is reactionary then a very short rush distance will be disadvantageous for them. Close positions on meta ARE imbalanced and that view is backed up by 1) pro players 2) results and 3) common sense.
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lol @ "basic rts concept". quote me a text book on that please (an introductory one please, i'm not too versed in rts gaming theory). anyway... i don't really care for that argument, i can accept that i may be wrong on that but it was still a bad choice (strategically) if the scenarios are those that were argued.
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After MVPs 2 barracks, IdrA had like 14 drones left, and MVP was at around 19? SCV AND A MULE.
From this position, no zerg in the entire world would win if MVP did not fuck up. IdrA could
1. Make an army. This would be ALL IN. He did not ahve the drones to support reinforcing a decent army.
2. Make drones and pray MVP turtles for a minute.
MVP attacked and won, idra couldn't do anything about it. NesTea or Fruit couldn't do anything about it either.
For IdrA to have won that, he would of had to get a big surround on the marines at the start with his drones/slow zerglings and taken minimal losses. MVP is not a scrubby terran though and did not allow that to happen.
There is also a reason they always hatch first, did you never consider that hatch first is the counter to 2 barracks marine pressure because you might not get enough larva off one hatchery to stop it? :/
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did you never consider that hatch first is the counter to 2 barracks marine pressure because you might not get enough larva off one hatchery to stop it? :/
*head asplodes* time has just been reversed.
im gonna stay out of this thread from now on.
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I just watched GoldenfOu vs BoogieBoy... the jacket theory has been broken :O (once again)
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On December 02 2010 04:34 latan wrote:
BS, greedy zerg is greedy.
also i've seen plenty of ZvT wins on meta close position with equally skilled players, please abandon that myth.
No you play terran so you don't know how hard it is to play zvt (or zvp) close positions like that you dont' have the slightest idea. Its not impossible but againt equally skilled players the terran will win in those positions most of the time hands down.
Also agreed with what faint said. hatch first is the best response to a 2 rax because if you do a delayed expo terran will get his expo up WAY before you do and that puts you way further behind then defending from a 14 hatch.
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On December 02 2010 05:33 latan wrote:Show nested quote + did you never consider that hatch first is the counter to 2 barracks marine pressure because you might not get enough larva off one hatchery to stop it? :/ *head asplodes* time has just been reversed. im gonna stay out of this thread from now on.
you should, everything you've said has reflected your lack of knowledge.
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EPT
