EPTif only he had spawned on one of the two other locations, i really think he prob woulda take game 3
but ofcourse his first mistake was loosing game 1 on blistering
[GSL] S3 Ro32 Day 4 - Page 211
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mcleod
Canada350 Posts
if only he had spawned on one of the two other locations, i really think he prob woulda take game 3 but ofcourse his first mistake was loosing game 1 on blistering | ||
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Niguana
United States36 Posts
Holy crap. | ||
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Castrophy
United States232 Posts
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Klamity
United States994 Posts
Also, Tastosis has been much better this season. They've actually cracked a few funny jokes. | ||
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SKtheAnathema
United States885 Posts
actually first time he's played someone good in the gsl. he gets pretty good brackets | ||
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Metalwing
Turkey1038 Posts
On December 01 2010 13:07 Karthane wrote: Jinro 2-0 Moon Idra 2-1 MVP Check 2-1 Choya Boxer 2-1 Polt I just don't know what to say. You sir, are amazing. EDIT: I just saw Check vs Choya. | ||
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danl9rm
United States3111 Posts
On December 01 2010 12:58 ch33psh33p wrote: Moon 2 - 0 Jinro Idra 2 - 1 MVP Check 2 - 0 Choya Boxer 2 - 0 Polt good call, lol | ||
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Moonling
United States987 Posts
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Severedevil
United States4839 Posts
On December 02 2010 04:34 theherder2 wrote: I said this before somewhere but thats the huge disadvantage for Zerg in close positions that doesnt happen to Terran or Protoss. Thats what happens when you have to make either drones OR army from only one building. Idra saw that MVP had an expansion. If he makes army he falls behind in economy (2base vs 2base) = loss. If he made drones he doesnt have an army for timing attacks = loss. Its basically a 50/50 chance to decide how he wants to lose =\ Very close positions for Zerg are an opportunity to make heavy use of their slower units, like Spine Crawlers, Queens, Hydras, Infestors, and to a lesser extent Roaches/Banelings. Close positions = easy creep highway. Clearly a zergling/muta style will be disadvantaged in close positions. I don't know if it's clear that Zerg in general are in trouble. Queens and Spines in particular benefit so much from a nearby opponent... | ||
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isM
United States735 Posts
On December 02 2010 04:34 latan wrote: BS, greedy zerg is greedy. also i've seen plenty of ZvT wins on meta close position with equally skilled players, please abandon that myth. maybe in the lower levels, at a high level of play its nearly impossible. | ||
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Vxed
Norway239 Posts
On December 02 2010 05:45 Klamity wrote: Also, Tastosis has been much better this season. They've actually cracked a few funny jokes. Agreed, their casting today was brilliant. | ||
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adeezy
United States1428 Posts
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caruso
Germany733 Posts
This guy is so sick and he keeps getting sicker every round. When he progresses that way, GSL 4 will be his for the taking. Damn that guy is good. Also, minority bonus, being the only fat pro gamer. | ||
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checo
Mexico1364 Posts
I saw Idra lost and was like = ( I saw random result i didn't care mehhh... I saw Boxer losse FML... | ||
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adeezy
United States1428 Posts
On December 02 2010 06:08 caruso wrote: I'm wondering who is supposed to take out July? This guy is so sick and he keeps getting sicker every round. When he progresses that way, GSL 4 will be his for the taking. Damn that guy is good. Also, minority bonus, being the only fat pro gamer. What about Leenock? That guy is a beast!!! | ||
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caruso
Germany733 Posts
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DMKraft
476 Posts
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adeezy
United States1428 Posts
On December 02 2010 06:14 caruso wrote: I forgot about him, he might be able to. But I still think July is going to take this GSL, or at least GSL 4. Btw I meant Leenock about fat pro gamers.... He looks like a mini little july! and he has the experience to back it up as well.... | ||
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tieya
United States308 Posts
On December 02 2010 05:58 KashmirAZ wrote: maybe in the lower levels, at a high level of play its nearly impossible. myth? are you serious? you're saying it's a myth that zerg doesnt get a disadvantage when they spawn at close positions. I guess steppes is a good zerg map as well, isnt it? | ||
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Mainland
Canada551 Posts
In close positions on Metalopolis, the flaw with going hatch-first requires a zerg to defend any early pushes with drones. I rewatched the match, and here's what I noticed: Between 3:40 and 5:10, Idra constantly had between 5-7 drones off mining (not counting the ones that died), either to transfer (for the first 10 seconds) or to fend of the marine push. Throughout that time he lost either 4 or 5 drones to the push. After the push was fended of, he was left with 14 drones, so that means between 3:40 and 5:10, at no time did he more than 16 drones. Remember for early game zerg, 17 drones can mine off 1 base with no loss in efficiency (I'm accounting for the typical 1 drone on gas). Now if you hypothetically substitute each one of those drones for 2 zerglings, he lost 8-10 zerglings worth of drones, and kept 10-14 zerglings off mining for 1.5 minutes. Had he gone spawning pool first, he could have easily had enough zerglings or an earlier spinecrawler (but that would've been in the main so it wouldn't be as effective) to fend off the attack while having a similar or stronger economy. Another thing that we need to account for is the added production gained from the second hatchery. When going pool first, depending on whether zerg opts for a hatchery immediately after spawning pool, or if he delays the second hatch, a queen in a pool-first build can pop around the same time as a second hatch in a hatch-first build. I think something like a 14-pool, 15-hatch would be best on close positions (or even an 11-pool 18-hatch, if someone can make that build work with zerglings added in), so that build compared to hatch first sacrifice about a minute of early production but compensates for it a little later with an earlier queen. Last thing to account for is how much the knowledge the two players had before the chose their build. Idra went hatch-first after scouting the mid-positions base with his overlord. MVP went 2-barracks without any scouting. The one drawback of going pool first in close positions is that if the terran knows that's what the zerg is doing, he may be able to exploit it by just being more passive and more economy-focused early on. In summary: a pool-first on close positions in Metalopolis is superior to hatch-first. It's much stronger defensively, and stronger or even economically if the opponent decides to pressure early (around the 3:45 mark or earlier). The following paragraph is pure speculation. So if it's total bullshit, feel free to call me out on it. I think a reasonable transition out of the pool-first would be keep some presence outside of terran's ramp with either lings bling or ling roach and try to delay terran from getting his expo. The really short distance is favourable for slow blings or roaches to retreat against non-stimmed infantry. A spine crawler push might even be possible in the early-midgame. Something similar to Idras "migrating-giraffes" build on SoW yet with roaches instead of hydras. The timing would be to have roach-ling, 3 spinecrawlers finished and overlords in position right when lair completes. The zerg could even save energy on a third queen and bring that along to transfuse.That's something I want to try now, after just thinking it up. | ||
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