EPT
[GSL] S3 Ro32 Day 4 - Page 213
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amazingoopah
United States1925 Posts
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adeezy
United States1428 Posts
On December 02 2010 07:55 Gigaudas wrote: People really have to pay more attention to the luck factor. FruitDealer was very greedy in two of his games (well three, and in the first one he was punished for it) this day but he got away with it. There were timings were he would've been as helpless as Idra was on Meta. Yes, you can call it game sense but there is never a way to know that a Terran will or will not push. As much as we can say FruitDealer is very lucky.... the fact that this is his own style that I've never seen anyone truly replicate showcases how boss he can be. If you remember in GSL1, it was amazing how much macro and tech he was able to do just by pressuring with a fleet of mutalisks. It's not really getting away with it, as Artosis and Tasteless commentate, Fruit Dealer just seems to know when to stop drone production and tech to make attacking units, and barely hang on a thread. So many times when im watching I think... FRUIT MAKE UNITS ALREADY.... then BAM 14 ultralisks come out. (GSL1, one of my favorite moments ever). | ||
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happyness
United States2400 Posts
On December 02 2010 05:43 Niguana wrote: Holy crap, Jinro qualified and IdrA/Boxer didn't? Holy crap. It's because Jinro got to face play against Moon. If Idra or Boxer wouldve faces Moon they wouldve advanced. Not that Moon is terrible or anything, he's just splitting his time in-between War3 and SC2, so he isn't as good as some of the full-time players | ||
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TT1
Canada10028 Posts
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Fa1nT
United States3423 Posts
On December 02 2010 08:05 TT1 wrote: lol poor idra, select told me that mvp is considered as being the no1 tvzer in korea He barely overcame idra on blistering with great (i.e. cliff + choke) tank placement, and lost by quite a large margin on Steppes. Then everyone was excited about Metal. An amazing macro zerg vs an amazing macro terran (only like 3 of these exist). But what do we get? Close position 2 barracks marine push that kills idras econ early game and results in a timing attack 5 mins later. Even if MVP is better than IdrA, or if IdrA is better than MVP, that series didn't show it very well. | ||
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zerious
Canada3803 Posts
On December 02 2010 08:05 TT1 wrote: lol poor idra, select told me that mvp is considered as being the no1 tvzer in korea I heard he was something like 17-0 tvz in the last 2 weeks. lol | ||
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TMTurtle
183 Posts
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
This is good news for Jinro I think since he won't be as nervous against Polt as he would have been against Boxer. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On December 02 2010 06:21 Mainland wrote: In summary: a pool-first on close positions in Metalopolis is superior to hatch-first. It's much stronger defensively, and stronger or even economically if the opponent decides to pressure early (around the 3:45 mark or earlier). . Ret and Idra both seem to think the exact opposite. I'll take their advice on this one. | ||
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AssuredVacancy
United States1167 Posts
On December 02 2010 05:33 latan wrote: *head asplodes* time has just been reversed. im gonna stay out of this thread from now on. uhhhhhhhhhh it's pretty common sense to stop 2 rax pressure you either need gas-pool to get fast speedlings and rely them to get up an expo safely, or double hatch, and micro well enough until you can over run his stuff with the added production. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
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SKtheAnathema
United States885 Posts
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On December 02 2010 07:53 adeezy wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On December 02 2010 07:45 Taf the Ghost wrote: While Boxer vs Nestea was a good series, Boxer screwed up his micro there in game 7. If the 4 lings + drones hadn't gotten the surround, Boxer wins that series. MVP nearly made the same mistake against Idra in that 3rd game, but managed to pull back far enough that he got off several more drone kills. That pretty much assured his next push would win the game. While you can say Boxer was the one who screwed his micro. I took a trip to the Finals Recap and saw this: From Lovedrop A familiar sight as BoxeR ramps up two early barracks aiming to take down NesTea's expansion. Pulling half his SCVs, BoxeR is met at the natural with all but 3 of NesTea's drones ready to defend, NesTea this time smartly pulls back to buy time for his zerglings. The zerglings attack the front pack of SCVs while the drones successfully surrounds the marines in the back. The zerglings mow through the SCVs and drones disable BoxeR's ability to micro. It was more of Nestea performing above BoxeR than just saying Boxer screwed up this and that. I would rephrase your quote to say "If Nestea didn't prevent that early agression by getting that surround, Nestea would've lost". It sounds like it's saying the same thing. But basically we have seen throughout this GSL that 2 racks pressure is performable by any high level pro. The result largely depends on the zerg's calculated and timely response to defer the earlier ones and prevent the bigger ones from happening. The main thing I'm trying to say is: Close position is not impossible, and to say that Zerg only wins because of a mistake isn't fair to the Zerg player's key micro. However let's say instead of going fast lair and droning so much.... Idra got a few more lings and a few more banelings already morphed. It would've been a different story. Not saying IdrA wouldve won, but we wouldn't have seen the super fast GG that we did. Didn't say it wasn't possible. Which is kind of why I typed "MVP nearly made the same mistake against Idra in that 3rd game, but managed to pull back far enough that he got off several more drone kills. That pretty much assured his next push would win the game." Idra definitely could have played that differently. Though going for baneling speed (which I believe was 50% done or so when GG happened) made a lot of sense. That was a lot of marines bearing down on him. MVP hit a very nice window and killed Idra. His blind build order put him in large lead, he did solid early game damage and had a good follow up planned to it. If I'm not wrong, that'll win you more games than it loses you. But, yes, Idra definitely should have made about 2 banelings just to hide at his base for after he started speed. As for the Boxer vs Nestea stuff, I'll be more careful by what I mean about "micro". His control was excellent, but in that game 7, he engaged too early. If he'd pulled back before the surround, he wins the series with his push that would have come in another 60s. He made a small-scale, tactical error against Nestea's massive defense (Nestea effectively all-in'd an all-in with his drones). So he made a "micro" mistake, as it was in a small-scale engagement, not a "clicked the wrong direction" error. If he's backed into the wall, he'd also probably have won that engagement as well, or at least not have died to the loss. In total though, that build from MVP has to be scary for any Zerg in close quarters. There's ways to deflect, but it's really strong. Though we won't see it again until, likely, the finals, as it he isn't really likely to face another Zerg until then. I just hope it isn't a repeat of Rainbow finals. I don't think anyone wants that.  | ||
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cromat
Afghanistan100 Posts
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
I'm at a bit of a loss for what is actually supposed to be done vs that build. Even if you try to 5/7RR or something, he'll already have bunkers up at the bottom of your ramp cause you didn't make enough early lings. | ||
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nihoh
Australia978 Posts
On December 02 2010 08:02 happyness wrote: It's because Jinro got to face play against Moon. If Idra or Boxer wouldve faces Moon they wouldve advanced. Not that Moon is terrible or anything, he's just splitting his time in-between War3 and SC2, so he isn't as good as some of the full-time players Why would you even make a comment like that in a single elimination tournament?... What if Nazi's won World War 2? No one cares. | ||
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TheDougler
Canada8306 Posts
On December 02 2010 06:21 summerloud wrote: if anyone is interested - i updated my GSL 3 statistics excel file, also has short description of all the games and brackets ![[image loading]](https://s3.amazonaws.com/summerloud/sc2reps/stats.jpg) interesting stats: -zergs are eliminated at an alarming rate, prolly also due to the no-map-veto system? -matches involving protoss are very short in general -matches on steppes and blistering are much shorter on average than on any other maps -xnc is now actually the map with the longest matches ofc, all to be taken with a grain of salt due to the small amount of matches That is some fascinating stuff! Thanks so much for putting that together. The PvT match time average confounds me. In general the trend appears to be that matches with Terrans are longer, hence TvT being the on-average longest match while ZvZ is just as short as PvZ... But that's thrown out the window by the PvT statistic. I hope we get a bunch more of that match (and we are in the Ro16) so that we can get a better idea of that stat. Also the xnc being the longest matches is interesting, as is the aount of Zerg wins on Steppes. Perhaps most startling though is the 6-0 TvZ on Jungle Basin. Yeah people have been complaining about it being slightly imba due to the difficulty of taking that 3rd and 4th base... but 6-0!? Holy cow. | ||
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happyness
United States2400 Posts
On December 02 2010 08:14 TMTurtle wrote: When I saw it going to metal for game 3, I had that inkling feeling that it was just going to result in close position bullshit. So it's totally my fault. Sorry, guys. How dare you! In seriousness now, close pos metal is just as bad as steppes for zerg IMO. Poor IdrA, he still played well, just some bad luck | ||
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gozima
Canada602 Posts
You guys all remind me of my highschool football coach and the "unbeatable" game plans he would draw up that would ensure us sure victory. It's unfortunate he failed to factor in our shitty quarterback, our tiny wide receivers, our puny frontline, and a kicker that couldn't make a fg from 5 yards out. | ||
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