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On November 07 2010 17:53 Ilikestarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2010 17:49 dtz wrote:
Huk's chat played a major role in determining the outcome of that game imo.
So could qxc's colour. How? Don't just say something. Explain it. I didn't watch the game with huk and I don't know what he said. But for qxc's color. In no way could it affect anything whatsoever with the game's result except if a player had some superstition or supposed bad luck/good luck with some color.
Creep is purple. qxc was purple. Keeping player colors normal lets him blend in. There are other combinations that provide the same type of effect.
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On November 07 2010 18:06 warmGun wrote:His opponent could always just turn on the feature that makes your own color green and the opponent's red. Many pros do this because red shows up really well on the minimap. I don't think players should have to pick colors at all. I understand that it is for the fans to visually see who is favored, but I like having a certain color to associate with a player. Ex pink for Machine or purple for qxc. Qxc is the reason i have always used purple terran  On topic, I think that MLG did what they had to do in the situation, even though it is pretty terrible that it wasn't caught sooner by any party involved.
It's not about the colour, it's about not giving a rat's ass about half the rules(which are just BS anyways) then talking some shit about how they need to enforce rules and basically took a win away from someone(yes comebacks are possible but that's beside the point).
On a side note, proxying a stargate @ some mineral lines with the lightblue colour makes it really hard to spot unless red/green is on.
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On November 07 2010 18:06 warmGun wrote:His opponent could always just turn on the feature that makes your own color green and the opponent's red. Many pros do this because red shows up really well on the minimap. I don't think players should have to pick colors at all. I understand that it is for the fans to visually see who is favored, but I like having a certain color to associate with a player. Ex pink for Machine or purple for qxc. Qxc is the reason i have always used purple terran On topic, I think that MLG did what they had to do in the situation, even though it is pretty terrible that it wasn't caught sooner by any party involved.
As I said in some of my other responses, it's the point that it could make a difference. It shouldn't be up to the players to correct something like that: it's the officials' jobs.
Edit: And basically what JackDino said, too.
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I love how MLG communicates with the fans so quickly. Your decision might not be what I would do, but it is reasonable.
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On November 07 2010 18:17 skurj wrote:
I love how MLG communicates with the fans so quickly. Your decision might not be what I would do, but it is reasonable.
They don't need to communicate with the fans @ all, what they need to do is think about the players first.
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On November 07 2010 18:11 Char711 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2010 17:53 Ilikestarcraft wrote:On November 07 2010 17:49 dtz wrote:
Huk's chat played a major role in determining the outcome of that game imo.
So could qxc's colour. How? Don't just say something. Explain it. I didn't watch the game with huk and I don't know what he said. But for qxc's color. In no way could it affect anything whatsoever with the game's result except if a player had some superstition or supposed bad luck/good luck with some color. Creep is purple. qxc was purple. Keeping player colors normal lets him blend in. There are other combinations that provide the same type of effect.
I think people especially of the caliber that are playing in this tournament could notice a purple terran unit on creep. The minimap issue I already talked about. Every single player in this tourney probably already has the option on to change to red for opponents units. And the ones that don't its their fault for not using it.
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On November 07 2010 18:11 Char711 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2010 17:53 Ilikestarcraft wrote:On November 07 2010 17:49 dtz wrote:
Huk's chat played a major role in determining the outcome of that game imo.
So could qxc's colour. How? Don't just say something. Explain it. I didn't watch the game with huk and I don't know what he said. But for qxc's color. In no way could it affect anything whatsoever with the game's result except if a player had some superstition or supposed bad luck/good luck with some color. Creep is purple. qxc was purple. Keeping player colors normal lets him blend in. There are other combinations that provide the same type of effect.
Player can choose to switch to green/red color scheme if they wish.
I always play in pink in tournaments, because I have positive associations with it. I don't see why that should be a problem.
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On November 07 2010 18:52 Ilikestarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2010 18:11 Char711 wrote:On November 07 2010 17:53 Ilikestarcraft wrote:On November 07 2010 17:49 dtz wrote:
Huk's chat played a major role in determining the outcome of that game imo.
So could qxc's colour. How? Don't just say something. Explain it. I didn't watch the game with huk and I don't know what he said. But for qxc's color. In no way could it affect anything whatsoever with the game's result except if a player had some superstition or supposed bad luck/good luck with some color. Creep is purple. qxc was purple. Keeping player colors normal lets him blend in. There are other combinations that provide the same type of effect. I think people especially of the caliber that are playing in this tournament could notice a purple terran unit on creep... The minimap issue I already talked about. Every single player in this tourney probably already has the option on to change to red for opponents units. And the ones that don't its their fault for not using it.
When the rules state a colour to be used like red and blue, it's not the players fault for not using the option.
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On November 07 2010 18:12 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2010 18:06 warmGun wrote:On November 07 2010 17:49 dtz wrote:
So could qxc's colour. His opponent could always just turn on the feature that makes your own color green and the opponent's red. Many pros do this because red shows up really well on the minimap. I don't think players should have to pick colors at all. I understand that it is for the fans to visually see who is favored, but I like having a certain color to associate with a player. Ex pink for Machine or purple for qxc. Qxc is the reason i have always used purple terran On topic, I think that MLG did what they had to do in the situation, even though it is pretty terrible that it wasn't caught sooner by any party involved. It's not about the colour, it's about not giving a rat's ass about half the rules(which are just BS anyways) then talking some shit about how they need to enforce rules and basically took a win away from someone(yes comebacks are possible but that's beside the point). On a side note, proxying a stargate @ some mineral lines with the lightblue colour makes it really hard to spot unless red/green is on.
Once they got into the situation of the situation where they realized it was the wrong map in the middle of the game, they were screwed either way. If they let the game finish and count, PainUser would have been cheated; with the decision they made, Tyler was cheated. Hopefully this opens up MLG's eyes and makes them play closer attention to all of the games, as logistically difficult as that might be with so many games occurring at the same time.
And i agree, alot of their rules are really dumb.
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On November 07 2010 18:55 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2010 18:52 Ilikestarcraft wrote:On November 07 2010 18:11 Char711 wrote:On November 07 2010 17:53 Ilikestarcraft wrote:On November 07 2010 17:49 dtz wrote:
Huk's chat played a major role in determining the outcome of that game imo.
So could qxc's colour. How? Don't just say something. Explain it. I didn't watch the game with huk and I don't know what he said. But for qxc's color. In no way could it affect anything whatsoever with the game's result except if a player had some superstition or supposed bad luck/good luck with some color. Creep is purple. qxc was purple. Keeping player colors normal lets him blend in. There are other combinations that provide the same type of effect. I think people especially of the caliber that are playing in this tournament could notice a purple terran unit on creep... The minimap issue I already talked about. Every single player in this tourney probably already has the option on to change to red for opponents units. And the ones that don't its their fault for not using it. When the rules state a colour to be used like red and blue, it's not the players fault for not using the option.
Can you clarify what you're trying to say. I don't understand the relevance between the rule and how it isn't their fault.
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Well some people have their own habit. Maybe they are used to using red and blue and train with it since the MLG rules said so. In anycase, I am not gonna argue whether colour and chat influences gameplay and the result or the game. That is out of point.
The point is that in this thread, an MLG representative has said that they are going to force rules very strictly without any discretion to maintain their integrity and thus inconsistencies that happened before can prove to be troublesome in the future. What happens if in the future,a player wants to claim a default win because Huk was being extra chatty and the player refer to this statement as his ground?
A league is based on its credibility and its credibility comes from how closely it adheres to its rules. This rule left no room for discretion.
It is better if this gets clarified once and for all to avoid potential embarassments.
That said, I understand fully and accept the decision regarding Tyler as no other solution was possible and appreciate MLG for trying to explain to the community. The coverage, stream, and the whole tournament has been awesome so far. Far better than the GSL and previous MLGs , and IEMs imo.
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Uh, guys, I just noticed something huge.
LiquidRet vs LiquidJinro was playing at the same time as LiquidTyler vs PainUser.
Guess what map they played on (and the match wasn't cancelled):
http://media.mlgpro.com/brackets/10/procircuit/dallas/sc2/open/matches/6687.html
"LiquidJinro vs LiquidRet
Map: Lost Temple"
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/101220-1v1-terran-zerg-lost-temple
That means out of the 4 matches being played at the same time, half of them started on Xel'Naga Caverns (the right map), and half of them started on Lost Temple.
Out of that second half, only Tyler's game was canceled.
Additionally, do you know why the mixup occured?
The MLG bracket is off by 1 round - it has a 'blank round at the left side'. All of the casters and commentators are calling Round 5 "Round 4" because of MLG's bracket mixup.
I bet you this led to Day9/Djwheat misreading the sheet.
Edit: Bolded because the MLG staff needs to see this and FIX their brackets.
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On November 07 2010 19:13 Ilikestarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2010 18:55 JackDino wrote:On November 07 2010 18:52 Ilikestarcraft wrote:On November 07 2010 18:11 Char711 wrote:On November 07 2010 17:53 Ilikestarcraft wrote:On November 07 2010 17:49 dtz wrote:
Huk's chat played a major role in determining the outcome of that game imo.
So could qxc's colour. How? Don't just say something. Explain it. I didn't watch the game with huk and I don't know what he said. But for qxc's color. In no way could it affect anything whatsoever with the game's result except if a player had some superstition or supposed bad luck/good luck with some color. Creep is purple. qxc was purple. Keeping player colors normal lets him blend in. There are other combinations that provide the same type of effect. I think people especially of the caliber that are playing in this tournament could notice a purple terran unit on creep... The minimap issue I already talked about. Every single player in this tourney probably already has the option on to change to red for opponents units. And the ones that don't its their fault for not using it. When the rules state a colour to be used like red and blue, it's not the players fault for not using the option. Can you clarify what you're trying to say. I don't understand the relevance between the rule and how it isn't their fault.
If a rule states something and it isn't followed by player 1, it's not player 2s fault for not using an OPTION(that means it's optional and not needed).
It's like saying that in a football match it's your own fault if someone purposely kicks you in the face, you could've avoided it aswell.
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On November 07 2010 19:51 dcemuser wrote:Uh, guys, I just noticed something huge. LiquidRet vs LiquidJinro was playing at the same time as LiquidTyler vs PainUser. Guess what map they played on (and the match wasn't cancelled): http://media.mlgpro.com/brackets/10/procircuit/dallas/sc2/open/matches/6687.html" LiquidJinro vs LiquidRet
Map: Lost Temple" http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/101220-1v1-terran-zerg-lost-templeThat means out of the 4 matches being played at the same time, half of them started on Xel'Naga Caverns (the right map), and half of them started on Lost Temple. Out of that second half, only Tyler's game was canceled. Additionally, do you know why the mixup occured?
The MLG bracket is off by 1 round - it has a 'blank round at the left side'. All of the casters and commentators are calling Round 5 "Round 4" because of MLG's bracket mixup.
I bet you this led to Day9/Djwheat misreading the sheet.Edit: Bolded because the MLG staff needs to see this and FIX their brackets.
Nice find! Nothing will come of it though, except hopefully MLG will be ALOT more cautious and vigilant about such things in the future.
They're done pretty well though, it's their 3rd SC2 tournament, the first with 128 players (correct me but Raleigh was 32 and DC 64?). There's bound to be hiccups when organised that many people. The way the stick to their ruleset is very professional. If we see a rule change or at least measures implemented to make sure this type of thing doesn't happen again, future tournaments will be better for it.
Keep at it MLG :D
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The biggest question for me would be why several players started on the wrong map? For some reason they must have thought it was the right one.
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If your excuse is simply "we work too much and therefore missed it till it was too late but still made a shitty decision" maybe you should look at how you are running the tournament and change it a bit. Possibly opening up referee spots to selected members of the public to lighten your workload during the weekend (kind of like how F1 has amateur marshalls at nearly every event). I seriously doubt that would cause any MAJOR problems other than creating an awesome experience for the person and lightening your workload.
On November 07 2010 19:51 dcemuser wrote:
Uh, guys, I just noticed something huge.
"LiquidJinro vs LiquidRet
Map: Lost Temple"
That means out of the 4 matches being played at the same time, half of them started on Xel'Naga Caverns (the right map), and half of them started on Lost Temple.
Out of that second half, only Tyler's game was canceled.
Oh wow, amazing.
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Was hoping Tyler would win but definitely the right decision. Don't let any naysayers dissuade you, changing the rules during the tournament would be a terrible move.
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impressiv how calm Tyler stayed in that situation despite being ahead by so much. too bad it did't get rewarded.
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On November 07 2010 20:29 nam nam wrote:
The biggest question for me would be why several players started on the wrong map? For some reason they must have thought it was the right one.
Explanation to MLG Mixup here
Look at http://www.mlgpro.com/ci/brackets/procircuit/10/dallas/sc2/open/winners.
See how it says Winners Round 1, up until Winners Round 8 and the Championship? Also note how the first round is basically blank and does nothing.
Now, look at http://www.mlgpro.com/pro-circuit/2010/. Click on Starcraft 2, click on Game Types.
See how it says Winners Round 1 up through Winners Round 8 and Winners Round 8 IS the Championship.
I bet you a million dollars Day9/Wheat looked over at the brackets, said "OIh, it's Tyler vs PainUser... let me find them..."
http://www.mlgpro.com/ci/brackets/procircuit/10/dallas/sc2/open/winners
"Oh, there they are. Winners Bracket Round 6!"
"Let me see... Winners Bracket Round 6 map selection, there it is!"
"Round 6
Game 1 - Lost Temple" says right here: http://www.mlgpro.com/pro-circuit/2010/
In reality, MLG just screwed up the brackets online. Even though the brackets say Round 6, it was actually Round 5, so Day/Wheat should have made it on Xel'Naga Caverns.
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why didnt you cancel the other match on lt?
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EPT
