• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:23
CEST 21:23
KST 04:23
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy18ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy2GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding3Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6
StarCraft 2
General
Quebec Clan still alive ? BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info
Tourneys
GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion so ive been playing broodwar for a week straight. BW General Discussion Gypsy to Korea Pros React To: JaeDong vs Queen
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group F [BSL22] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CEST
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Muta micro map competition What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game Nintendo Switch Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Loot Boxes—Emotions, And Why…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Electronics
mantequilla
Any Web Designers Out there?…
sob3k
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1734 users

[MLG] LiquidTyler vs Pain.User restart issue

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 16 17 18 Next All
MLG_Lee
Profile Joined July 2010
279 Posts
November 07 2010 01:36 GMT
#1
All,

A quick post from the event. MLG definitely recognizes that this was an error on our part--most especially catching it so late. And we definitely apologize to Pain.User and Tyler both for the error.

The blunt truth of the matter is that we're running a very large live event and we're all working 20 hours a day while we're here. Mistakes happen and we work as fast as possible to correct them when they do. So, we also apologize to you guys as their fans (and hopefully ours).

That said, the reason that it was a full reset was because that's what in the rules. A league is based on its credibility and its credibility comes from how closely it adheres to its rules. This rule left no room for discretion. We don't make up rules on the fly at the tournament. On the rare occasions where we don't have a rule for a given situation, the tournament admin and the league commissioner consult to make a call. But AFTER the event, we revisit the situation and then codify the rules.

Any questions, please ask. I'll be monitoring this thread.

Thanks,

Lee

Twitter: @MLGLee ( https://twitter.com/#!/MLGLee )
OverKiLL.
Profile Joined October 2010
United States199 Posts
November 07 2010 01:37 GMT
#2
genuine post thank you sir
Potatoto
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden12 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-07 01:42:49
November 07 2010 01:39 GMT
#3
May I suggest you guy change the rule to asking the players if it's allright continuing on the wrong map...?

Edit: And honestly if Painuser wins it's gonna harm your credibility more than you not blindly following the rules.
ptz
Profile Joined January 2005
Romania251 Posts
November 07 2010 01:39 GMT
#4
if tyler loses this, i shall be pissed man.

User was warned for this post
BlitZl0l
Profile Joined May 2010
United States32 Posts
November 07 2010 01:40 GMT
#5
I understand.

It's just really shitty for the person who has to suffer before you "codify the rule".

PainUser knew he lost. He told Tyler after the game he had like 15 scvs. That's as crappy as it gets for Tyler, and probably puts him on tilt more than losing the first game.
Owned.
-_-
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States7081 Posts
November 07 2010 01:40 GMT
#6
Why be so strict? Why not just ask the players if they're ok with playing the wrong map? Nobody cares about leagues following rules. They care about leagues being fair. Usually that means following the rules, but I don't think that was the case here. Why not be fair as opposed to technically right?
Socram
Profile Joined December 2009
Mexico46 Posts
November 07 2010 01:41 GMT
#7
Thanks for taking the time to explain what happened, it really does make a difference.

And thanks for putting togehter this awesome event!
2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2
leo23
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3075 Posts
November 07 2010 01:42 GMT
#8
As Potatoto said, why could you not continue playing on that map. You had not noticed the error for about 10 minutes, so why not let it go on? What if this happened on one of these long games we've had today such as SEN vs QXC or Socke vs Liquid`Jinro?
banelings
Archduke
Profile Joined May 2010
United States119 Posts
November 07 2010 01:44 GMT
#9
Thank you for the post. MLG's involvement in the community is one of the reasons I buy the HD pass for every SC2 event.

Shit happens in live events, I guess, but if Liquid`Tyler loses I think everyone will be bummed out as he was way, way ahead in that game on Lost Temple. Anyway, keep on chuggin', MLG. Dallas has been awesome so far.

`Duke
"Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines."
preZzle
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany223 Posts
November 07 2010 01:45 GMT
#10
so painuser just won game 1.

so if a disc happens in the midgame with someone having a clear advantage is it always going to be restart? its basically the same problem just caused by mlg.

even though i do appreciate mlgs work and understand that something like that can happen in the heat of the tourny

tyler should definitly be awarded with the win :/
Telcontar
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom16710 Posts
November 07 2010 01:45 GMT
#11
I understand you had to adhere to the rules but there should be some room for flexibility. The fact that it was 13 minutes into the game and one player had a clearly advantage should've factored into the decision making. Maybe you should have a look at the rules again so that a little more common sense can be applied in future occurances.
Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.
MLG_Lee
Profile Joined July 2010
279 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-07 01:51:28
November 07 2010 01:47 GMT
#12
On November 07 2010 10:40 -_- wrote:
Why be so strict? Why not just ask the players if they're ok with playing the wrong map? Nobody cares about leagues following rules. They care about leagues being fair. Usually that means following the rules, but I don't think that was the case here. Why not be fair as opposed to technically right?


Several questions like this and that's the "nice" thing to do, but it's not the RIGHT thing to do. If we do this EVERYTIME there's an issue, we mind as well just make rules up on the fly. The time to _SET_ rules is BEFORE the tournament. The time to _REVISE_ rules is AFTER the tournament. The rules that we set for the tournament is what players buy passes for and expect to have in place when they show up. That's a level competitive playing field.

And mistakes happen, we're human and we're here for 16-20 hours a day for 7 days straight getting the event ready and running it. Most for time you never even see them because when they do, we have rules in place that everyone can look at and say "this is how it's supposed to be."

If we adjusted them on the fly, and especially in a situation like this, there's no point to the rules.

And if the rule was to ask the players whether they should reset, in this instance Pain.User had a clear advantage. Wouldn't he say yes of course? And wouldn't Tyler say no, reset? Even if they're both perfect gentlemen about it (which, given who they are, I think they would be), how can that be a fair level playing field?

The SITUATION is what sucks here, not the rules. And we (MLG) errored, so we apologize for creating the situation.

EDIT: misphrased a bit about playing out.
Twitter: @MLGLee ( https://twitter.com/#!/MLGLee )
Moonling
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States987 Posts
November 07 2010 01:47 GMT
#13
Rules are meant to be followed...but you could have just asked both players if it was okay to continue with the map that was chosen or something also it was 13 min. into the game and Tyler clearly had an advantage, and this could also mentally mess with the players.
1% of koreans control 99% of starcraft winnings. #occupykorea.
resilve
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom678 Posts
November 07 2010 01:48 GMT
#14
Understand it from MLG's point of view, but it doesn't stop it sucking for Tyler

Overall a brilliant tournament, so a single mistake is understood I guess. Just a shame that they couldn't have carried on with LT - its not like the players knew otherwise?
Socke Fighting!!!!
Forak
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands64 Posts
November 07 2010 01:48 GMT
#15
Neither player had a problem playing on LT, or they would've voiced it. It doesn't affect ANY other player in the tournament. Enforcing the rule this strictly while there was a player clearly in a huge advantage, 13 minutes into a game, is incredibly disheartening.
Abiding by a rule without any sort of flexibility or discussion doesn't increase anyone's credibility.
Tyler is clearly affected by this and it's showing in his attitude and play
Archduke
Profile Joined May 2010
United States119 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-07 01:52:00
November 07 2010 01:48 GMT
#16
On November 07 2010 10:42 leo23 wrote:
As Potatoto said, why could you not continue playing on that map. You had not noticed the error for about 10 minutes, so why not let it go on? What if this happened on one of these long games we've had today such as SEN vs QXC or Socke vs Liquid`Jinro?


The opening map is fixed for each round of the tournament. If they had continued, it would have been the only match with an opening game NOT played on Xel'Naga Caverns. I think for fairness and consistency's sake, they had to replay the match. An unfortunate event, to be sure, but it was handled properly by the MLG staff.
"Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines."
b_unnies
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
3579 Posts
November 07 2010 01:48 GMT
#17
will MLG be willing to modify the rule about wrong maps?
setzer
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3284 Posts
November 07 2010 01:51 GMT
#18
The problem isn't that you followed the rule like you should have but that the rule is STUPID. What should have been in the rules was for the players to be allowed to continue on that map. It has ALWAYS been up to the referee to determine if someone was in a position, where under the circumstances, the player is given the win. Liquid`Tyler was in that position and you took the win away from him.

I applaud you for recognizing your mistake but the fact remains because of MLG's serious blunder it could cost Tyler the series.

Why is it that most of MLG's rules tend to make very little sense? Using extremely imbalanced and outdated maps that absolutely no one practices on is just one of the many I have seen come up.
Moa
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States790 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-07 01:54:09
November 07 2010 01:51 GMT
#19
I'm just going to thank you for acknowledging the situation and explaining what your thinking behind simply restarting the game was. That said I am not sure I agree with your decision. I believe that if you bent the rules and allowed the players to decide nobody would have looked into it and it wouldn't have knocked the credibility of MLG.

EDIT: If you don't mind answering an unrelated question has MLG thought about modifying the map pool? Kulas in particular seems like it is too imbalanced of a map to even be an option.
^O^
Housemd
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1407 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-07 01:52:01
November 07 2010 01:51 GMT
#20
just wanted to say that this was a great tournament and thank you for the statement.
Fantasy is a beast
1 2 3 4 5 16 17 18 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 14h 37m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 209
White-Ra 146
MindelVK 32
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 17864
Shuttle 332
Dewaltoss 91
Sexy 11
Dota 2
Gorgc6492
420jenkins250
capcasts33
Counter-Strike
byalli391
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu417
Other Games
summit1g6749
Grubby2198
FrodaN1882
Beastyqt703
C9.Mang0165
Pyrionflax158
ArmadaUGS149
mouzStarbuck129
QueenE78
Trikslyr36
ZombieGrub20
Mew2King19
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 36
• HerbMon 24
• 80smullet 12
• RayReign 11
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1877
• WagamamaTV539
League of Legends
• TFBlade847
Other Games
• imaqtpie1015
• Shiphtur266
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
14h 37m
WardiTV Team League
15h 37m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
19h 37m
IPSL
20h 37m
Hawk vs TBD
StRyKeR vs TBD
BSL
23h 37m
n0maD vs perroflaco
TerrOr vs ZZZero
MadiNho vs WolFix
DragOn vs LancerX
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 14h
WardiTV Team League
1d 15h
OSC
1d 17h
BSL
1d 23h
Sterling vs Azhi_Dahaki
Napoleon vs Mazur
Jimin vs Nesh
spx vs Strudel
IPSL
1d 23h
Artosis vs TBD
Napoleon vs TBD
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Soma vs YSC
Sharp vs sSak
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Snow vs PianO
hero vs Rain
GSL
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Escore
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-09
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Spring 2026
Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
WardiTV TLMC #16
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.