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On October 17 2010 09:10 hugman wrote:
CS is played competitively because of its large player base, not because of its merits as a competitive game. Same with Halo, same with WoW etc. SCII is getting an audience purely on its merits as a competitive game, people who don't play it want to watch it. That says it all
People who don't play those games get into those too. It's absurd to say that competitive SCII got to where it was based on competitive play, when it is also a ridiculously popular game. The competitiveness gets it spectators, yeah, but so does the fact that everyone and their mother is playing this game now as well.
edit- how can you say that SCII is the greatest competitive game where there's still balance complaining everywhere? If a game was played competitively based on its merits we'd still all be watching Brood War exclusively.
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On October 17 2010 09:13 EleanorRIgby wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2010 08:58 Turing wrote:On October 17 2010 08:57 EleanorRIgby wrote:On October 17 2010 08:56 kojinshugi wrote:On October 17 2010 08:55 EleanorRIgby wrote:
all the gear you need for top arena in a week including gems and all that shit
stop spewing bullshit
They don't play tournaments with their live characters... how do they get good practice then? The time spent to get to high diamond or on a pro team where you can actually get good practice in sc2 is easily comparable to the time it takes to gear up to practice top-level WoW arena. the difference is sc2 players are actually practicing what there gonna be using in the future pressing 1-3 buttons against ai for 80 levels is not the same
It doesn't take long to get to 80, getting the best gear takes a while though (assuming you're starting from scratch). You're obviously ignorant on the subject, why even post?
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On October 17 2010 09:10 Xax wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2010 09:08 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 17 2010 09:04 Xax wrote:On October 17 2010 08:57 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 17 2010 08:54 UnholyRai wrote:On October 17 2010 08:51 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 17 2010 08:47 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 17 2010 08:42 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 17 2010 08:40 happyness wrote:On October 17 2010 08:38 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
[quote]
i'll say it again because apparently you didnt read it the first time: the changes in 1.1.1 and 1.1.2 did not address IdrA's concerns in ZvT whatsoever. are you even aware what his issue is? it's sure as fuck not reapers. He seemed pretty happy with the 1.1.2 patch on SotG thanks for your completely irrelevant comment. round three: stating that blizzard changed the game because of how much idra whined is stupid because: what idra complains about is a completely separate issue not addressed by the patches whatsoeverjesus christ i cannot possibly be more clear than that FakeSteve, what is IdrA concerned about in ZvT? I guess I'm not exactly in the know how, I'm a Protoss player after all ^_^' idra is concerned about the ease with which terran can deny scouting and do many different 1base timing attacks that can require drastically different responses from zerg while roaches getting a range buff certainly allows zerg a little more leeway to do catch-all types of builds where they just defend with larger numbers, the problem still remains and is unaddressed. zerg is still highly susceptible to strange all-in builds The patch addressed many of the issues Idra had, hence why he was happy with the patch. Please stop being so patronising. Onto brighter things: Select is a hero now. Huk had the best one liner I've ever seen in sc2. Idra is just a beast. yep, the patch changed several things that IdrA was happy about. that doesn't change the fact that what he feels is the overall root of the problem, which he has expressed many times, has not been fixed. why are you even in this conversation? you're just picking little holes in my post, none of which prove to anyone that blizzard changed the game because of IdrA's incessant whining, which is what i was refuting in the first place. The funny thing is that Protoss never seemed to complain about not being able to scout although it costs a Protoss 250 / 200 to get an observer out and he has a robo after that but it costs zerg 250 / 200 as well to get overlord speed which also gets zerg a lair... the obs is cloaked but losing an observer to a scan costs the protoss 50/100 and losing an overlord because the fly-by didn't work only costs 100. just other mechanics, idra was complaining about something he didnt figure out yet, he got overlord speed in every single game now and we're going to see it used as the zerg scouting method in the future I am sure. IF (!!) blizzard pays attention to pro's complaining then they nerfed the reapers which was basically fine but overnerfed a bit with 1.1.2 although for idra the problem kinda solved itself already? that doesn't make any sense. why bother comparing the resource cost of overlord speed versus an observer when default gateway units are far better equipped to handle strange 8-minute all-ins? protoss don't complain because the danger is much smaller. didn't select just win against like 3 top protosses (tyler, kiwikaki, huk) around the 8 minute mark? and weren't there like 200 posts here stating that they wouldn't know how to stop this even in theorycraft?
are you nuts? all of those games were far longer than 8 minutes and were definitely not one-base all-ins
sigh...
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On October 17 2010 09:13 Vierd wrote:
I was on an elevator with HuK. :o
Speaking of which, I wish he had Mothership rushed IdrA instead of seleCT.
You don't Mothership rush a zerg though, Idra would have raped him.
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On October 17 2010 09:15 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2010 09:10 Xax wrote:On October 17 2010 09:08 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 17 2010 09:04 Xax wrote:On October 17 2010 08:57 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 17 2010 08:54 UnholyRai wrote:On October 17 2010 08:51 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 17 2010 08:47 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 17 2010 08:42 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 17 2010 08:40 happyness wrote:
[quote]
He seemed pretty happy with the 1.1.2 patch on SotG thanks for your completely irrelevant comment. round three: stating that blizzard changed the game because of how much idra whined is stupid because: what idra complains about is a completely separate issue not addressed by the patches whatsoeverjesus christ i cannot possibly be more clear than that FakeSteve, what is IdrA concerned about in ZvT? I guess I'm not exactly in the know how, I'm a Protoss player after all ^_^' idra is concerned about the ease with which terran can deny scouting and do many different 1base timing attacks that can require drastically different responses from zerg while roaches getting a range buff certainly allows zerg a little more leeway to do catch-all types of builds where they just defend with larger numbers, the problem still remains and is unaddressed. zerg is still highly susceptible to strange all-in builds The patch addressed many of the issues Idra had, hence why he was happy with the patch. Please stop being so patronising. Onto brighter things: Select is a hero now. Huk had the best one liner I've ever seen in sc2. Idra is just a beast. yep, the patch changed several things that IdrA was happy about. that doesn't change the fact that what he feels is the overall root of the problem, which he has expressed many times, has not been fixed. why are you even in this conversation? you're just picking little holes in my post, none of which prove to anyone that blizzard changed the game because of IdrA's incessant whining, which is what i was refuting in the first place. The funny thing is that Protoss never seemed to complain about not being able to scout although it costs a Protoss 250 / 200 to get an observer out and he has a robo after that but it costs zerg 250 / 200 as well to get overlord speed which also gets zerg a lair... the obs is cloaked but losing an observer to a scan costs the protoss 50/100 and losing an overlord because the fly-by didn't work only costs 100. just other mechanics, idra was complaining about something he didnt figure out yet, he got overlord speed in every single game now and we're going to see it used as the zerg scouting method in the future I am sure. IF (!!) blizzard pays attention to pro's complaining then they nerfed the reapers which was basically fine but overnerfed a bit with 1.1.2 although for idra the problem kinda solved itself already? that doesn't make any sense. why bother comparing the resource cost of overlord speed versus an observer when default gateway units are far better equipped to handle strange 8-minute all-ins? protoss don't complain because the danger is much smaller. didn't select just win against like 3 top protosses (tyler, kiwikaki, huk) around the 8 minute mark? and weren't there like 200 posts here stating that they wouldn't know how to stop this even in theorycraft? are you nuts? all of those games were far longer than 8 minutes and were definitely not one-base all-ins sigh...
Yep. He definitely expanded for almost all of those games, and in no way were all-ins.
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Anyone know when is the ceremony going to be? Are they going to stream it too?
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On October 17 2010 09:15 Roggay wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2010 09:10 Deadlyfish wrote:On October 17 2010 09:06 kojinshugi wrote:On October 17 2010 09:04 Deadlyfish wrote:I remember that beast setup from when i played WoW, enha/BM/hpala which just destroyed everyone without even doing anything. They'd just run into someone press 4 buttons and that was the game. It was pathetic. I dont see how anyone can view WoW as competitive. It's a fun game, actually one of the greatest games ever made, but it is hardly competitive  Beastcleave is not unbeatable. Actually people who think beastcleave is unbeatable are probably here on TL making balance whine threads. It's a counter build to heavy CC teams like RMP, but I've seen good RMPs destroy it. Ugh, i know it isnt. I was just proving how big of a joke it was. Same as warlock/mage/druid or whatever, just complete jokes. The commentators would laugh when people just went 100%-0 in 2secs. I've watched it a few times, back when i played WoW, but i stopped because i realized how stupid it was. Clearly you haven't followed the same for enough time, you didnt saw some epic games I saw where people weren't supposed to win and did it anyway. I will never forget when I saw live OrangeMarmelade take that 1v2 with no health and no mana when his team was one game away from losing the final.
This is right. Anyone that argues WoW doesn't require any skill is a fool as it requires both high individual and team skill. However, it has some major things holding the game back that will never be fixed.
First, it's not entertaining to watch 95% of the time. Even if you are familiar with the game, it's fairly boring to watch, forget it if you don't know anything about WoW.
And second, there are far too many elements outside of the player's control because of RNG. The difference between a hit, miss, resist, or crit can decide the outcome of a match and it's basically a dice roll of whether or not any of those will happen.
The ratio between what the player controls and what is random/luck isn't far enough in favor of the player like it is in the better competitive games.
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On October 17 2010 09:15 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2010 09:10 Xax wrote:On October 17 2010 09:08 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 17 2010 09:04 Xax wrote:On October 17 2010 08:57 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 17 2010 08:54 UnholyRai wrote:On October 17 2010 08:51 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 17 2010 08:47 PlaGuE_R wrote:On October 17 2010 08:42 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On October 17 2010 08:40 happyness wrote:
[quote]
He seemed pretty happy with the 1.1.2 patch on SotG thanks for your completely irrelevant comment. round three: stating that blizzard changed the game because of how much idra whined is stupid because: what idra complains about is a completely separate issue not addressed by the patches whatsoeverjesus christ i cannot possibly be more clear than that FakeSteve, what is IdrA concerned about in ZvT? I guess I'm not exactly in the know how, I'm a Protoss player after all ^_^' idra is concerned about the ease with which terran can deny scouting and do many different 1base timing attacks that can require drastically different responses from zerg while roaches getting a range buff certainly allows zerg a little more leeway to do catch-all types of builds where they just defend with larger numbers, the problem still remains and is unaddressed. zerg is still highly susceptible to strange all-in builds The patch addressed many of the issues Idra had, hence why he was happy with the patch. Please stop being so patronising. Onto brighter things: Select is a hero now. Huk had the best one liner I've ever seen in sc2. Idra is just a beast. yep, the patch changed several things that IdrA was happy about. that doesn't change the fact that what he feels is the overall root of the problem, which he has expressed many times, has not been fixed. why are you even in this conversation? you're just picking little holes in my post, none of which prove to anyone that blizzard changed the game because of IdrA's incessant whining, which is what i was refuting in the first place. The funny thing is that Protoss never seemed to complain about not being able to scout although it costs a Protoss 250 / 200 to get an observer out and he has a robo after that but it costs zerg 250 / 200 as well to get overlord speed which also gets zerg a lair... the obs is cloaked but losing an observer to a scan costs the protoss 50/100 and losing an overlord because the fly-by didn't work only costs 100. just other mechanics, idra was complaining about something he didnt figure out yet, he got overlord speed in every single game now and we're going to see it used as the zerg scouting method in the future I am sure. IF (!!) blizzard pays attention to pro's complaining then they nerfed the reapers which was basically fine but overnerfed a bit with 1.1.2 although for idra the problem kinda solved itself already? that doesn't make any sense. why bother comparing the resource cost of overlord speed versus an observer when default gateway units are far better equipped to handle strange 8-minute all-ins? protoss don't complain because the danger is much smaller. didn't select just win against like 3 top protosses (tyler, kiwikaki, huk) around the 8 minute mark? and weren't there like 200 posts here stating that they wouldn't know how to stop this even in theorycraft? are you nuts? all of those games were far longer than 8 minutes and were definitely not one-base all-ins sigh...
yup sorry I generalized there a bit too much,
what I wanted to point out is just that as soon as the protoss went 2gate robo with fast expansion select just punished that quite a bit ALTHOUGH he even didn't go all-in, so what if someone even goes all-in? even harder punishment. so how does that make protoss so much more solid against 1 base all-ins?
User was warned for this post
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Select is such a goddamn beast.
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Didn't we have this whole WoW discussion at the end of the last MLG event too? Is it really necessary to regurgitate that mess here as well?
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On October 17 2010 09:10 hugman wrote:
CS is played competitively because of its large player base, not because of its merits as a competitive game. Same with Halo, same with WoW etc. SCII is getting an audience purely on its merits as a competitive game, people who don't play it want to watch it. That says it all
CS was the backbone of eSports in the West since it's inception. Without it, we wouldn't be here today. It's naive to say that.
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Huk vs Select game 2:
Might not have been the greatest showcase of amazing strategy, but damn, it sure does speak volumes about SC2 as a spectator sport.
Next up, GSL. Do you guys think Idra will take a lot of momentum in?
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On October 17 2010 09:10 hugman wrote:
CS is played competitively because of its large player base, not because of its merits as a competitive game. Same with Halo, same with WoW etc. SCII is getting an audience purely on its merits as a competitive game, people who don't play it want to watch it. That says it all
CS was barely out of its beta phase when the CPL came about and THAT is what contributed to the rapid growth of the game and e-sports in the west as a whole. Quake was around but it was CS and the CPL that really opened the doors to the sponsors and the like around here. And it gave birth to teams like EG that are still around today.
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On October 17 2010 09:15 DystopiaX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2010 09:10 hugman wrote:
CS is played competitively because of its large player base, not because of its merits as a competitive game. Same with Halo, same with WoW etc. SCII is getting an audience purely on its merits as a competitive game, people who don't play it want to watch it. That says it all People who don't play those games get into those too. It's absurd to say that competitive SCII got to where it was based on competitive play, when it is also a ridiculously popular game. The competitiveness gets it spectators, yeah, but so does the fact that everyone and their mother is playing this game now as well. edit- how can you say that SCII is the greatest competitive game where there's still balance complaining everywhere? If a game was played competitively based on its merits we'd still all be watching Brood War exclusively.
CS is a very dull game given its large popularity as an esport. Gee, another d2 match what fun. Not only that but the observer is always going to be limited since he is spectating only 1/10th of the overall player view.
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On October 17 2010 09:25 Brad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2010 09:10 hugman wrote:
CS is played competitively because of its large player base, not because of its merits as a competitive game. Same with Halo, same with WoW etc. SCII is getting an audience purely on its merits as a competitive game, people who don't play it want to watch it. That says it all CS was the backbone of eSports in the West since it's inception. Without it, we wouldn't be here today. It's naive to say that.
Quake was there first though.
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On October 17 2010 09:26 Fake)Plants wrote:
Huk vs Select game 2:
Might not have been the greatest showcase of amazing strategy, but damn, it sure does speak volumes about SC2 as a spectator sport.
Next up, GSL. Do you guys think Idra will take a lot of momentum in?
Not really.
He's just in that pool of top-tier players who could take it but could also get randomly beaten.
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On October 17 2010 09:25 Brad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2010 09:10 hugman wrote:
CS is played competitively because of its large player base, not because of its merits as a competitive game. Same with Halo, same with WoW etc. SCII is getting an audience purely on its merits as a competitive game, people who don't play it want to watch it. That says it all CS was the backbone of eSports in the West since it's inception. Without it, we wouldn't be here today. It's naive to say that.
What? Stop making shit up. Its quake.
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On October 17 2010 09:25 Brad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2010 09:10 hugman wrote:
CS is played competitively because of its large player base, not because of its merits as a competitive game. Same with Halo, same with WoW etc. SCII is getting an audience purely on its merits as a competitive game, people who don't play it want to watch it. That says it all CS was the backbone of eSports in the West since it's inception. Without it, we wouldn't be here today. It's naive to say that.
BW and Korea is the reason most of us are here, SC2 is an extension of that. CS and CPL has nothing to do with the development of RTS games as an esport.
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cant wait for the replays aaaah
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On October 17 2010 08:06 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2010 08:05 hp.Shell wrote:I don't understand that Liquid`Tyler vs SeleCT result. 3:4? Why was this a Bo7? I'd look myself but I don't want to dig through 280 pages of comments. Can someone enlighten me as to why this wasn't a Bo3? This was in Losers Round 8. The reason I ask is because the MLG bracket isn't updated yet and it says Liquid`Tyler 2:1 SeleCT. Very confusing. Also, had the match been a Bo3, would Nony have advanced instead of SeleCT?  Tyler beat Select 2:1, sending him to the losers bracket. When they played again in the losers bracket, the format was BO7 with the previous 2:1 carrying over.
Thank you. That makes sense. 
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EPT
